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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 00:42, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Matty Tew

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This article is about a non-notable lightweight boxer. Boxrec currently ranks him 497th in the world and 37th in the UK--clearly failing WP:NSPORTS#Boxing. There is also no significant independent coverage of him. Papaursa ( talk) 23:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to Eleventh constituency for French residents overseas#2012. The Bushranger One ping only 00:43, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Ludovic Chaker

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No indication of notability. Article claims he was a martial arts student and a very unsuccessful political candidate (9th in the district primary), neither of which shows notability. Papaursa ( talk) 23:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Possibly redirect to Eleventh constituency for French residents overseas#2012 as happened with the even less successful Romain Arcizet. Chris857 ( talk) 00:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Chaker is truly not notable, but I can live with the redirect. Papaursa ( talk) 00:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 00:44, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Tatiana Marinescu

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Marinescu was not notable last November, and she isn't notable today. I encourage readers to look through the arguments brought up at the previous AfD. This time, I will simply say that the sources presented are hardly the "significant coverage in reliable sources" demanded by WP:GNG. We have a blog post, another blog post, tabloid trash, a press release, another blog, corporate spam, a news brief from a dubious outlet describing her as "naked and without inhibitions", some random news brief, a blog post, a puff piece on a facebook post she made, more tabloid trash, more puffery, more tabloid trash and yet more empty, titillating cruft. If this is the level at which Marinescu is covered, then we can well do without an article on her. Biruitorul Talk 23:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Delete Not notable, lack of reliable sources. Mabalu ( talk) 03:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -Scottywong | chatter _ 15:55, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD ( talk) 22:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete according to the arguments of the nominator.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 11:12, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Nominator has obviously not really checked out the sources, because he missed the ineffable twaddle, the shameless bullshit, and the ridiculous crap. However, it does seem a shame to delete such a monument of self-parody, containing as it does such clunkers as:
  • In February 2012, Tatiana Marinescu took part of the “Lambertz Monday Night Chocolate and Fashion Show”.
  • The dress weighed 30 kg (66 lb) and is said to cost around $270 000.
  • She also got into the public eye due to her voluptuous measurements

and my personal favorite:

  • There have been rumors linking her romantically the footballer Bastian Schweinsteiger. (Think Young Frankenstein: "He vould have an enormous Schweinsteiger!")
EEng ( talk) 03:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 00:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

James F. Williams

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Fails WP:GNG. Just a man with a job. Night of the Big Wind talk 21:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Comment. The sorry state of the article as nominated was because much of its previous text was a copyvio, and was removed in 2010 with little attempt to salvage any of it. A better basis for judging the subject's notability would be the biosketch that our previous article copied from, here. — David Eppstein ( talk) 00:27, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Dean of libraries is not an inherently notable position, and I can't find evidence of high academic impact for his publications. But in this case I think his wide service on various governing boards (not all of which have been restored to the article yet) and the 2002 medal are enough to carry the day. — David Eppstein ( talk) 22:12, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Meets WP:PROF criterion #2 (highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level); the medal is named after one of the founders of the ALA. In addition to that, I agree with David Eppstein about the accomplishments of the subject as a whole.-- Eric Yurken ( talk) 00:15, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep as nomination withdrawn. ( Wikipedia:Non-admin closure) §§ AnimeshKulkarni ( talk) 14:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Anurag Mathur

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  • Comment: About the photo. This The Hindu article uses some photo which i don't think matches with File:Anurag looking at the camera.jpg. §§ AnimeshKulkarni ( talk) 07:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Four references in National newspapers, one exclusively about him. The photograph was dubious, but the article seems legitimate. -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 08:56, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep His novel, "The Inscrutable Americans" is a cult classic and a subject of discussion in many a conversation over coffee (despite how much the novel might be disliked by critics). It is notorious for its honesty, spontaneity and rustic humour. There are many one-novel authors with Wikipedia pages (Arundhati Roy and G. V. Desani for example) -- so that should not be a reason for deletion. The photo is fake or of his younger self (thus outdated). His novel is read and discussed in online lists and boards (like "sasialit" for example). He is reviewed in the book, "Critical Essays on Indian Writing in English" by Jaydipsinh Dodiya [1] -- mowglee 12:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Agree with ( talk me) --jona 14:19, 21 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan8888 ( talk • contribs) reply

Upon reconsideration I have decided to withdraw this AFD. Quis separabit? 13:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was relegated to the Tobin's Spirit Guide (delete). The Bushranger One ping only 00:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Tobin Film Studio

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An article about what appears to be an unremarkable film studio. The author claims that sponsorship by Sony gives notability. This claim is not referenced, and I'm not sure how much this sponsorship means, if anything. Peridon ( talk) 20:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Comment The article claims that they produce films with "absolutely no budget" - this in itself could be a revolutionary feature. I wonder why they need sponsorship if they can do this? Peridon ( talk) 20:36, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Delete. Kids working as volunteers "supported by corporations" to make films for Youtube and Facebook with other volunteers is laudable, but not notable unless such work has received coverage in reliable sources. Lots of g-hits, [2] but no coverage in reliable sources. Fails WP:ORG. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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"Films":
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  • Delete clearly. No independent reliable sources. Association with Sony is unclear and undocumented, and notability is not inhereted anyway. Zad 68 16:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep Wily D 09:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Chohung Bank FC

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A defunct Korean semi-professional football club. This is a follow-up to AfD of ROK Air Force FC. The three teams nominated for deletion were missed in the previous AfD. Unable to find if they played in any FC cup competition. Bgwhite ( talk) 20:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Pyongyang FC (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Cheil Industries FC (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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With reference to the WP:FOOTYN essay as the above mentioned clubs have played at the national level of the South Korean league structure they are assumed to meet WP:N criteria, the Korean FA Cup having not existed until 1996. League Octopus (League Octopus 07:43, 17 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
Keumseong Textile Company was runner-up in the Korean National Football Championship in 1965.
Korea Coal Corporation won the Korean National Football Championship in 1964.
Seoul Trust Bank was runner-up in the Korean National Football Championship in 1983. League Octopus (League Octopus 09:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
In light of the above evidence in my view the "Chohung Bank FC Three" should be kept and those deleted in the AfD of Korea First Bank FC and AfD of ROK Air Force FC should be reinstated (with of course some additional work emphasising their notability). The List of South Korean football champions and List of Korean FA Cup winners provides an excellent starting point. League Octopus (League Octopus 09:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
  • It does seem an odd claim that they fail WP:GNG. Generally when a team is current, and fails WP:GNG and it is hard to find much mention about them on the Internet. But here we have a team that hasn't been around for 70 years, and vanished in a war ... and yet you can find stuff without much effort. Nfitz ( talk) 02:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment All articles have been re-written and in my opinion now meet WP:GNG through existing or potential coverage (and there appears to be a lot) in reliable independent sources. With reference to WP:FOOTYN I also raise the issue that as the clubs have competed in the national cup that existed at that time they "are assumed to meet WP:N criteria". It would be nice if some South Korean editors would improve the articles further, in particular the Pyongyang FC article where a lot of material could be translated from the article in Korean Wikipedia. League Octopus (League Octopus 10:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
"The predecessor to the current FA Cup was the National Football Championship that had been staged in every autumn since 1946, with all the senior sides including semi-pro, university and military clubs competing for the right to be called the best team in the peninsula." This confirms the status of the Korean National Football Championship as taken from the Korean FA website. League Octopus (League Octopus 18:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
  • In light of League octopus' rewrites of the articles with reliable sources I'm now convinced they meet WP:GNG so Keep Seasider91 ( talk) 12:07, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Does this mean that some of the deleted articles in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ROK Air Force FC need to revisited? That AfD doesn't seem to have been very well handled in retrospect. Not sure why we'd be deleting any teams at a semi-professional level; as some of those deleted teams have not only played in a national cup, they have won a national cup, is it safe to assume that most if not all have at least played in a national cup? Seems many editors involved once again fell under the spell of WP:BIAS. Nfitz ( talk) 01:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I think that those who over-see the AfD process should now reach a consensus on the best way forward for the unsound Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ROK Air Force FC deletions and at the very least get back to Footwiks and explain our position. This is not a matter that should be left to fester further. League Octopus (League Octopus 18:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)) reply
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 00:47, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

DataCleaner

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Self-promotion of a piece of software from student term paper without indication of notability and with no independent refs Staszek Lem ( talk) 20:16, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was Keep - passes WP:N is a much stronger argument than linking to WP:TRIVIA asserting that it's thus a problem (doesn't seem to apply), or arguing that you don't like it. Wily D 07:33, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Barack Obama on Twitter

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Barack Obama on Twitter (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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This article is a perfect example of what Wikipedia is not (Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles.) and is full of WP:TRIVIA and WP:DIARY and WP:BADIDEA information, it should be deleted or merged/moved into an article that covers Communication of Barack Obama but just his twitter accounts are not independently notable of Mr. Obama and notability is not inherited, however his use of the media and in particular social media is significant so a new article based on his communication strategy would be of historical significance but Twitter account are not notable, not for Ashton Kutcher, Lady Gaga or Justin Bieber all of whom have had more followers. And remember just because something can be sourced does not make it deserve an article, per common sense public figures minutiae are over-publicized to the point that the Personal Life of Jennifer Lopez, Fashions of Kanye West, or Marijuana Usage of Snoop Dog are all verifiable and referenceable, nevertheless they do not meet the editorial standards of a Wikipedia article and should be incorporated and summarized into the parent topic article or if forked merged into an article on a broader topic. Also attempts to be bold and change the name and incorporate his YouTube, Facebook, and personal social network were met with fierce protectionism from an overzealous editor with OWN issues and page protection so community discussion was the only option, nevertheless this specific topic is not notable not matter how much you love Barry or Twitter cross referenced articles are not of note. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 20:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Well, we re-list to encourage discussion if there is no consensus but not normally if so many people have already commented. Perhaps unless there is a sudden change in consensus the nominator ought to hold an RfC on the matter. S.G.(GH) ping! 21:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy keep. WIkipedia is not paper. As long as there are fans of the topic which can fill it with verifiable information from secondary sources, there is no reason to delete the pqage, all the more to mewrge it somewhere. I fail to see why twitter of POTUS is less notable than some obscure pokemon or porn actors. Staszek Lem ( talk) 21:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Here are the reasons that speedy keep is applicable for, 1. nom withdrawn 2. the nom is disruptive 3. the nom is banned, per WP:KEEP. None of these reasons apply. IRWolfie- ( talk) 22:18, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • I think this could qualify as disruptive, considering LWC's probably only doing this (again) because we didn't agree with the hack and slash move and rewrite they attempted, repeatedly. Rather than use their sandbox and/or propose a change and try to find consensus, this seems to be a somewhat petty response. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 22:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC) Ah, now I see that this already came up at ANI, and IRWolfie made his voice heard. Fair enough, we'll try this again, I suppose. reply
  • Comment - I understand we have in our midst at least one editor with a PhD in this field; perhaps if he/she could unleash some of his/her analytic sophistication it might be easier to convince other users that there's some merit in this; also, a while ago over on the dyk template there was a suggestion to widen this out a little, and consider this particular medium alongside YouTube etc; Maculosae tegmine lyncis ( talk) 23:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Keep, and lets talk about why 'per nom' isn't a great idea. Firstly, the article is in no way a long and sprawling list of statistics, I wouldn't even argue there's an undue amount of statistics, considering how much polling goes on surrounding everything political. BADIDEA, how does that even relate? The information is more than just miscellaneous and disjointed statements which include both the words 'obama' and 'twitter', if you see specific instances of trivia, I don't deny that as a possibility at all, but that's what the editorial process is for. Point something out, and I'll see if I can fix it. Mentioning things that happen in a roughly chronological order is far from making something a diary; and I suspect you're beginning to throw policies you've heard of at it until something sticks. If you want an article that covers all the communications comprehensively, that's a noble goal, and probably worth writing, but that has nothing to do with deleting this article. As to the rest of the nomination, which is now an extended litany against fear Twitter, I should just point out that being bold works as justification once; when you get reverted, the next step is Discuss, and no, "this is bullshit" is not discussion. As it stands, this specific topic, is, in fact, specifically notable, since there are specific sources which give substantial discussion/treatment of the topic. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 00:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Not disjointed!? There is a whole section and even a picture reserved for an unrelated MTV VMA Kanye West Taylor Swift fight over a microphone and Obama's irrelevant commentary on the subject, this is UNDUE weight and NOT in no undue terms. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 16:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • While overexcited, I'll give you this one, that section doesn't actually involve Obama using Twitter. Although there may be a way to address it if there's a source that treats it in that context later, I think I'll go ahead and remove that section as essentially unrelated. This is how we WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Now, per nom is that much less an appropriate justification. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 22:25, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete Twitter is basically used the same way by everyone - nothing special except the content. Even then, it's not all that special either. ( ✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 00:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NOT. If anything in the content of any individual Tweet (which is likely not done by him anyway....) was really earthshattering, surely it would already be in his main article. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:15, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Reading the article would tell you a little about when he's actually tweeting and when he isn't (although if you're assuming even that's a lie, perhaps you're right, the article just reports what the sources say), but you underestimate the amount of Wiki-worthy content surrounding Barack Obama, the main article is not an exhaustive list of the sufficiently notable subject matter related to him. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 00:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • If the article was on the topic of Barak Obama and the media, and covered a great deal of media interactions with different sources and outlets, and provided some context as to why this was a notable topic, I might be more persuaded. If Barak Obama was very active on Slashdot, would Barak Obama on Slashdot pass WP:NOT? I think not. To say Twitter is more important than Slashdot only implies that notability is inherited, and not everything on Twitter is important. Quite the opposite. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 11:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
        • ...That is a thing no one has said but you, you realize? Anyways, regardless of what you think or think not, if there's an article on Twitter and not Slashdot, it's because a) there are reliable third-party sources on the use of Twitter and b) someone wrote the article for it. As is, though, mentioning Slashdot seems like a non-sequitor. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 12:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Four days since the last discussion and I am seeing nothing new being brought to the table here. It appears the nominator tried to move the article and instead of continuing discussion or starting a WP:RFC brought it straight back here. I don't really care whether these articles exist (they pass WP:GNG, but possibly fail WP:NOT) and the result will likely come down to how many people feeling strongly either way turn up. However nominating this so soon after the last one closed with no new arguments is a bad idea. AIRcorn  (talk) 00:49, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep This renomination is completely inappropriate, as the last AfD closed four days ago and this nomination is also bringing nothing new to discuss. It is just the nominator badgering the issue because they disagree with the article's existence. As I pointed out in the last discussion, sources like this show that the subject is completely valid. Expansion of the article's scope or renaming the article is something that should be done via talk page consensus and not by renominating the article for deletion. This should just be closed now. Silver seren C 02:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as WP:TRIVIA and trivial. If Obama ever says anything encyclopedic that's 140 characters or less (and that's undeniably from him) it can go into his existing article. Dori ☾ Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 02:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - there are better places for the content of this article. Jauerback dude?/ dude. 03:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Redirect to Barack Obama - again, everything that is notable has independent references, but not everything that has independent references is notable. This is IMHO yet again a case of Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL, vs. Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL, vs. Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL. There is nothing, nothing in this article that is independently and inherently notable separate from Barack Obama (and maybe a one-point mention in Twitter). -- Dirk Beetstra T C 05:17, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • By this argument, you would have us 'merge and redirect' everything in every article on Barack Obama and anything, unless you can be more specific. What exactly are you looking for to consider something 'independently' notable? Is Chlorophyll independently notable of Plants? Darryl from Mars ( talk) 05:40, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Incidentally, even without notability guidelines of any sort, 'sun is hot' would not be an article title. Solar luminosity, on the other hand... Darryl from Mars ( talk) 05:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • There is very little that is notable about Obama on Twitter. What criteria do you use that makes statements made on Twitter more notable than statements made by Barack Obama on Facebook or Barack Obama on CNN or Barack Obama in the White House Press Room, etc? This series of articles (xx on Twitter) is meta-reporting, which is not what this project is about. Twitter is a communications platform; and while sometimes the use of a platform is notable, those instances are rare and belong either in the article about the platform or in the article about the subject. -- Tgeairn ( talk) 06:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
        • True, ideally this article wouldn't include statements where 'tweeted' could be just as easily replaced by 'said'. However, while I don't see how being more notable than any of those things come up, a variety of sources do treat the subject of Obama on twitter, as in using twitter to a specific end, particularly in the context of both campaigns and in advocating particular political things. Does [1] suit what you're looking for, or is it not quite the right direction? There's a variety of others already in the article, and more that aren't, I imagine there's something that would fit your criteria? As an aside, though, we should get over having it in the main Obama article; it's full, and the content is more closely related to the articles on the campaigns and public image. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 06:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Darryl from Mars, the fact that we have the article Solar luminosity and not Sun is hot is exactly the point why we should not have articles like Barack Obama on Twitter, Lady Gaga on Twitter and Justin Bieber on Twitter - 'Solar luminosity' is talking about all sun-like bodies and their temperature effects - which would be like an article talking about all celebritites and their use of social media. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 06:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • I'm saying it wouldn't be a title because it's not a noun phrase, it doesn't prove anything in connection to this article, and, frankly, isn't much different from if I tried to argue 'other crap exists', since you don't give the reasoning as to why this subject falls into the category of 'things with sources that should be excluded', you just say it. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 06:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - This article is an unnecessary fork where everything that is notable is in the lede (and much of the lede is trivia). Reporting on reporting on comments (articles about reporting about unsourced and unverified comments) is Synthesis no matter how it is presented. Any remaining material of note is already in either the Twitter article or the BIO article. -- Tgeairn ( talk) 06:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Dirk, do you mean to suggest that while the book, 'communicator in chief' in particular, is support for an article on that subject, the chapter in the book relating to Twitter is not? Or would you reject both? Darryl from Mars ( talk) 08:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • Hmm .. WP:CRYSTAL .. I don't know. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 08:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
        • Ah, perhaps that's a fair response. Anyways, although this wasn't the way you emphasized it, does that chapter, at least, present information/analysis you'd consider being appropriate for the topic of 'on Twitter', and not just Barack Obama in general? The link is just a preview, but if you search 'BarackObama' as one word in the side box it takes you to an appropriate section. I admit I'm still not sure what makes something 'independently' notable, e.g, are any Beatles songs 'independently' notable of them? If it's just specific treatment, it doesn't get much more direct than 'Barack Obama's continued use of Twitter', the title of a section in the book. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 09:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
          • Well, it is a concept that I am now starting to wrestle with. Never really thought about subjects which have significant media coverage, general use, whatever, but which are not notable by themselves. As you say above, Chlorophyl has an article, Green has an article, Grass has an article, but we do not have Grass is green (or Greenness of grass or whatever) - whereas the latter has many sources, it is mentioned in proverbs, songs, movie-titles (all notable by themselves, many have Wikipedia articles). Which ones are in the white area, which ones are in the black area, and which are in the grey area? To me, Barack Obama is in the white house, Barack Obama's use of social media w/could be grey, and Barack Obama on Twitter IMHO shoots through to the black area. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 12:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
            • Hmm, I think the problem with Grass's greenness is, you've chosen an idea so ubiquitous that, no one has considered it worth discussing formally, indeed, that's what the idiom is for (not the one about it being greener on the other side, just the one claiming it as an obvious truth). Indeed, if there was something by Aquinas on grasses and the cause of their greenness (spoilers: it's the divine), that might become something worth mentioning in its article, cf. Planet. The fact's mentioned, but not discussed; we don't use proverbs and titles of movies as sources. The sources you get for Obama on Twitter are of a fundamentally different nature, I suspect. Still, I'm far from having the leverage to discount a humble opinion, just to disagree. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 14:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Strong Delete per WP:NOT, WP:FART, WP:POPCRAP, WP:HOGWASH. PumpkinSky talk 12:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
WP:NOW you're WP:JUST being WP:SILLY. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 12:34, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Thanks, I see that my meaning wasn't entirely clear. What I mean is that there are two separate possible article topics here:
  • First, there are the communications from Obama and others (the "tweets"), which are being delivered through a communications medium (Twitter). We can treat those as any other PRIMARY source, and sometimes do. Of course, as simple communications that are not subject to editorial review and are by their nature SPS, they wouldn't get a separate article from the subject(s) or author(s) of the communications.
  • Second, there is the reporting on the communications. Reporting on how they are novel or new, reporting on tactics and reach (audience), etc. The subject of these sources is the communications and the platform, in this case Twitter.
Having established the possible article topics, we then have our role as an encyclopedia. It is pretty well established that we wouldn't have an article about the first subject area (the tweets themselves), and I'm not trying to say that this article is that. We could theoretically have an article about the second subject, but only with RS about that second subject. In other words, we need multiple reliable sources independent of the subject providing objective commentary on the subject. The subject in this case is the reporting on the communications and the platform. We don't have those sources yet. In time, there may be - but they almost certainly won't be about the reporting on one entity and their tweets. They will likely be about the role of twitter in politics or the role of social media in elections or something similar.
For example: Assume Jane Doe is a notable figure, with her own BIO article, who has a verified twitter account @JaneD. One day @JaneD tweets that she "Got engaged to John Smith today". That tweet is PRIMARY, but since it's a verified account we would likely allow it as a source for her BIO article. When various media outlets (independent reliable sources) report on the engagement, we would update the BIO to reflect those new and better sources for the engagement. The media at this point is still only sourcing the fact (Jane Doe got engaged to John Smith). If an expert in media or engagement or some related field notes that @JaneD was the first notable person to use twitter to announce an engagement, they might then write an article or paper on the impact of social media (or twitter) on marriage announcements. The fact that Jane was the first would likely be mentioned in their writing, but the subject of that article is now something other than "Jane Doe on Twitter". The communications platform is separate from the fact, and the notable use of the platform is separate from the individual.
Another example: If John F Kennedy had kept a journal (diary), we would use those entries in their relevant places (Race, election, civil rights, missle crisis, cold war, trip to Dallas, etc). They would be self published thoughts, ideas, and opinions and we would treat them as such. If that diary were published daily (in real time) in the New York Times, it would not change our treatment of it. If that daily publishing started a trend where other public figures also published their diaries daily in the NYT, someone would probably write about the trend and how it was affecting relations or politics or travel in Texas or something. We might then have an article about that (the trend or impact). At no time in that scenario would we ever have an article about JFK in the NYT, as that topic would not be inherently notable (even though he is, NYT is, and the subject of his entries is).
This is getting too long for an AfD, maybe it's time for me to try to put this into an essay. I believe that this an important point, and that it is being missed in many of the responses to this and related AfDs. -- Tgeairn ( talk) 17:48, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Hm, that makes rather more sense. Although I feel like in this instance you may be forcing a distinction that isn't strictly necessary (for example, how do our 'Correspondence/Letters of...' articles fit into this dichotomy?), I understand how the sources used could develop into a 'Twitter Campaigning' article or something of the sort if we purposefully took a more general view of it. But even if this article as it stands isn't the ideal framework for discussing the phenomenon; it is, almost undeniably, how the sources discuss the issue. They are not (yet) taking an abstract look at the techniques and general trends, they focus specifically on Barack Obama's use. If, under the diary entry of the day, there were a series of articles discussing how JFK's diary entries in the NYT are affecting the Cuban Missile crisis and got us to the moon; that would be the notable topic, because that's what the sources are taking note of. Few things are inherently notable. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 00:25, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - IDONTLIKEIT, I really don't like it, but I'm not going to put my personal preferences infront of policy. The article subject is very clearly notable as witnessed the numerous quality references in the article and hence the appropriate response is to Keep. I would be happy for a merge to 'Communication of Barack Obama' or similar. Regards, SunCreator ( talk) 13:33, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete--I agree with Tgeairn and Dirk. Drmies ( talk) 17:12, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - well-sourced, well-documented, and well-written. Bearian ( talk) 19:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep since it has significant coverage in multiple independent and reliable sources, satisfying WP:N, and since the coverage is not about one event at one instant in time, thus not being a mere news report. Also, the renomination is too soon. I do not see how several of the nominator's rationales apply at all, since it is not a "diary" and not just a listing of statistics. Also, it passes the "not inherited" hurdle, since it has its own coverage, and is not just "This hat is notable because Obama wore it" or equivalent cases. Being associated with a world-famous person is absolutely not an impediment to achieving independent notability, if it has been noted in sufficient depth by multiple reliable and independent sources, as has this topic. I would applaud creation of Barack Obama's use of social media and the merger to it of this along with his use of Facebook, Youtube, and other social media in his efforts to attain and keep the US presidency, since a comprehensive article would avoid duplication and fragmentation. . Edison ( talk) 20:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Strong Delete - Without citing any Wikipedia policies, this article seems to be useless, a fan effort, and better suited as a trimmed down version on his main page or at the proposed "Communication of Barack Obama." Information regarding his campaign should be merged to the Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2012 page, and the 2008 campaign if there's information regarding it as well. Citing Wikipedia policies, I agree that it should be deleted as per WP:TRIVIA. WP:BADIDEA, and WP:NOT. JDC808 ( talk) 20:09, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep – This topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources, thus passing the threshold of notability by easily passing Wikipedia's General notability guideline. Furthermore, this article is a very reasonable spin-off from the main Barack Obama article. As the use of online communications, both by the public and by the leaders of nations continues to increase globally, aspects of its usage will only continue to receive significant coverage in reliable sources, which Wikipedia articles are typically based upon. Another idea is to merge the article into a new "Communications of Barack Obama" article. Northamerica1000 (talk) 22:58, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep – I agree with Northamerica1000 -- Tito Dutta ✉ 02:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NOT, especially WP:BADIDEA. This article also suffers from a general notability problem. If you pare the lede down per WP:INDISCRIMINATE removing and summarizing all of the unnecessary statistics, you end up with a basic statement that such a twitter account exists, has a lot of followers and is being used. So, what? Where is the lasting notability? These simple statements belong in other articles and the twitter article itself does not rise to the level on its own -- it is trying to inherit its notability from the biography. WTucker ( talk) 13:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Your reading seems to have conveniently elided the second paragraph of the lead. And, you shouldn't just stop at the lead if you want to make that sort of judgement. In fact, upon some review of the sources, you'd note that the last thing this article has trouble with is passing notability requirements. Check the sources mentioned a few comments up first, and we can discuss the issue of notability in more depth. And as an aside, is the citing of WP:BADIDEA just a way of saying 'nothing else on this page fits, but I still want to say it doesn't belong'? Because that's really starting to mystify me. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 14:05, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep I can't think any other type of website that would pass WP:WEB or WP:GNG but would be deleted under WP:NOT. I don't see the point of Twitter-hate--if this were an article about Obama's (or Justin Bieber's) blog it would clearly stand or fall on the notability guidelines alone and not provoke this level of drama. If there's a trivia/indiscriminate info issue it's with article content, not with the mere existence of this article. I don't oppose merging into a broader article, however. Also, I thought that immediate renomination was banned, even with a "no consensus" result. 169.231.53.116 ( talk) 16:51, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Keep All the ubiquitous shit on Wikipedia, and someone nominates a GA for deletion? Joefromrandb ( talk) 09:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment this opinion should be ignored since it is a misuse of speedy keep and also presents no argument in any policy or guideline. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 10:34, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Speedy keep does apply as it is clearly a disruptive nomination. What I'm fairly sure will be ignored is your oppose-badgering. Besides, it's going to be kept; the faster this is closed, the faster you can open a 3rd AfD! Joefromrandb ( talk) 10:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
It's not a disrupive nomination, and to even call it that is in itself trying to be disruptive. DreamGuy ( talk) 00:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete -- There is strong community consensus that any X on Twitter article is wholly inappropriate for Wikipedia. This whole thing is a massive violation of WP:NOT. The idea that you can find sources that mention the words together means there must be an article about it is one of the most ludicrous arguments ever made on Wikipedia. By that same logic we should have articles on Obama and sports, Obama and food, Obama in Washington DC, Obama and terrorists and so forth and so on. This needs to be deleted, and I suppose anything noteworthy should be merged elsewhere but if there were indeed anything noteworthy it would already be in the main article, so we can very easily just delete this whole thing and lose nothing of any value. DreamGuy ( talk) 00:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Firstly, let's refine your statement. The opinions find the articles inappropriate in general, this does not mean -any- article is inappropriate. Indeed, upon reading, many of them allow for such an article if there are very good sources which focus primarily on the topic. I reiterate that the "most ludicrous" argument outside the nomination is the idea that the main article can be used to determine notability more effectively than actual sources. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 04:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Wrong, it is a general consensus and therefore applies. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 07:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
That is the distinction between the words 'general' and 'specific', or 'generally' and 'always'. And as I said, anyone who reads rather than merely counting will see this is an apt exception to those generalities. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 08:48, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Clearly Barack Obama on twitter, facebook, and google+ etc would be a much more notable article that could be more comprehensive than just twitter. Each year of Barack Obama's presidency has sourcing for an article but articles on each term are better editorially similarly each of Obama's useage of social networks could have its own article but only all of them together give you a good picture of what is truly encyclopedic which is its importance in that he adopted a new medium and used it to his advantage as predecessors used radio, television, MTV to their advantage in the past. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 21:46, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Okay. Write it. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 00:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Merge into to-be-created Barack Obama and social media article or equivalent. The topic of "Barack Obama on Twitter" is a sub-topic of "Barack Obama and social media", which includes the use of social media by Obama, and Obama as a subject of social media attention. It's clearly an important encyclopedic topic, the use of social media by officials and politicians (and the attention they attract) is very widely covered by secondary sources, and particularly when it comes to Obama, him being the most significant US official and politician. On the other hand, the sub-topic of Barack Obama on Twitter is in itself barely worthy of an article and even if it is, it's better to have it covered in the more general topic for editorial reasons (no need for a sub-article considering the relative weights of the subjects). While an article on the communication of Obama could be interesting, it wouldn't include Obama as a subject of social media attention (and it can also be covered in Public perception of Barack Obama). It is therefore appropriate to merge as proposed, which can be conveniently implemented and followed-up administratively through Template:Afd-merge to. Cenarium ( talk) 20:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment This debate, and all the others on "X on Twitter" come down to a fundamental difference in view of what wiki is/should be. There are conflicting guides which are quoted by either side. The result will come down to the closing admin and their views on such topics. PumpkinSky talk 20:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and redirect to Celebrity use of Twitter. In sympathize with the argument that the Obama article is way too long already, but frankly we are getting into WP:FART territory here. Almost every aspect of Obama's life and participation on the Web is covered by the press. That does not mean we are compelled to have comprehensive articles about every piece of it, and readers are better served by comprehensive treatments of how politicians in general use Twitter to promote themselves and connect with citizens. Steven Walling •  talk 04:50, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep As previously explained and affirmed, anything the leader of the World Community says (i.e. The President of the United States) is WP:Noteworthy. Like it or not. When President Barack Obama says, televises, delivers via media, or for that matter Tweets something, it carries relevance to the World community. Therefore, Barack's tweets carry the necessary weight to be termed "Noteworty". Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga appeal to fanzine-types, and do not carry to weight of World Leadership. Ren99 ( talk) 12:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Everything he does is noteworthy?? Anyways, noteworthy is not the same as notable. -- Dirk Beetstra T C 16:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. Not mentioned in the article ( this version)  —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 05:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

CWUR World University Rankings

CWUR World University Rankings (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Ranking does not appear to meet Wikipedia notability guidelines. Ranking (and organization, for that matter) was created in July 2012 by Nadim M. Mahassen, an assistant professor at King Abdulaziz University (see WHOIS, KAU faculty website, Registrarism). Any citations attributable to CWUR merely report the ranking received, but no significant coverage of the ranking itself exists. This appears to be a ranking created and marketed by a non-notable academic, and its promotion on Wikipedia early on in the ranking's existence (July 8) is troublesome. For these reasons, I believe this article should be deleted. — Eustress talk 19:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Delete A search on Google News and Google Books reveals essentially no coverage of this rather dubious ranking. Since it is very easy to create a ranking methodology and set up a website giving the results (potentially very useful for self-promotion or promotion of an agenda) I think we should go on the side of caution here and wait for more coverage. Rangoon11 ( talk) 23:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. WP:TOOSOON. No prejudice against recreation if notability is achieved. The Bushranger One ping only 00:50, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Anne Duverneuil

Anne Duverneuil (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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I declined this A7 CSD but can't find any sources which would suggest that this actress is notable. ItsZippy ( talk • contributions) 19:01, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Delete As per nom.I was the one who CSDd it. ≫TheStrike Σagle≪ 04:43, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
weak keep: she had small roles in half a dozen films: [10] Comte0 ( talk) 10:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was redirect to Better By You, Better Than Me. Per Bushranger: We have to honour copyright  —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 05:34, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Ken McKenna (attorney)

Ken McKenna (attorney) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Procedural nom on behalf of the IP who requested it here. IPs deletion rationale is provided here A fluffernutter is a sandwich! ( talk) 18:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Google News only turns up the subjects website. Appears to be self-promotion or WP:ADV and does not appear to satisfy general notability guideline or any other notability standard that I can find.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 18:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- or, if thought appropriate, redirect to an article associated with the election in Nevada's second congressional district in the 2010 Democratic primary, which is, I believe, policy under WP:POLITICIAN. I can't see any other reason to retain this article based on what I see, and on a brief search; notability is certainly asserted but I don't see anything that meets Wikipedia's policies, at least as far as I understand how notability works with respect to lawyers at trial. Ubelowme U Me 18:48, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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Is "Ken McKenna (attorney)" a likely search term? Although redirects are cheap, I don't see what even this cheap redirect would buy Wikipedia. At most, I think, a hatnote to Better By You, Better Than Me on Ken McKenna when Ken McKenna (footballer) is moved back. TJRC ( talk) 20:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
You are correct. No one is likely to search the name with "(attorney)" attached to it. Location ( talk) 20:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
A very good point about the merge, though; there were a couple lines of info not present in the target article; I've added them. Even if this article is retained, they're on-topic for that article.
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 00:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Bloons

Bloons (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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There is no real indication of significance, and it exists as a purchasing guide to the franchise more than anything else. Jprg1966  (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was DELETE. postdlf ( talk) 00:47, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

List of terms for white people in non-Western cultures

List of terms for white people in non-Western cultures (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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This article has multiple issues. It is systematically biased, synthesized and POV, and against the principle that Wikipedia is not a dictionary.

Systemic bias: The title, the lead ( unsourced and pov) and the entire concept on which the article is based is problematic. It is written with regard to the dubious social constructs relating to a particular society. The article states "Many non-Western cultures have informal words which refer to white Westerners." There is no clear definition of either 'Western world' or 'white' used across societies. 'Western' can mean any country from Latin America to South Africa or even Japan, South Korea and Singapore. 'White' is used to describe people of very different skin color; e.g. in Central Africa it is used to describe lightet skinned black or brown people. So the usages of the terms vary from one society, culture and language to another.

Synthesis and POV: As the article is almost entirely unsourced I had to spend considerable time looking up all the definitions of the different languages. Most of the definitions I could find don't mean 'white westerner', or 'white' as a common sense of the word. In most cases the words mean foreigner, alien and non-native. Some definitions mean the color white and sometimes used to people, but not necessarily to westerners, but to any people that culture considers 'white'. Some definitions mean different nationalities. Few definitions mean literary 'westerners' but used regardless of skin color.
I found that most of the words either do not exist or cannot be found and that the given foreign language words have different meaning:

  • of 18 words listed, I could not find, after thorough search, the definitions of words given here.
  • 9 words mean simply foreigner. The words mostly used to any people, thing, idea, or culture that is not indigenous to the particular culture.
  • 7 words mean different nationalites, e.g. Dutch, Dane, French, American, English.
  • 6 words mean white. Some of the usages of white in these languages simply mean the color white, and/or can be used to light pigmented black people to asians as a denomination.
  • 3 words mean west or western. (a lot of languages have no definition of western people)

Moreover, as Wikipedia is not a dictionary, I do not see the point of the existence of an article of word definitions.

As the article uses the definition of a term which does not have congruent meaning in different languages and cultures, and falsely group unrelated meanings in one article, it is justified to delete on basis of systematic bias, synthesis, pov, and dictionary-like nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FonsScientiae ( talk • contribs) 16:34, July 16, 2012‎

  • Delete - based on WP:NOTDICTIONARY. Why would we want a list of non-English words on Wikpedia that mean 'white people'? The current list has so many problems - the title is problematic (are all Western cultures 'white'), the inclusion criteria contradicts the title (it allows words for 'foreigner'), the vast majority of the entries are unsourced and unverifiable... Sionk ( talk) 17:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Colleges teach a class called Western civilization, and Wikipedia has an article explaining that The term has come to apply to countries whose history is strongly marked by European immigration or settlement of white culture, such as the Americas, and Australasia, and is not restricted to Western Eurasia (Europe). So the part of the nomination about system bias doesn't apply. Your other points seem valid though. Remember, when you nominated something for deletion, you should tell the creator of the article. I went ahead and did so. [12] Dream Focus 15:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • I meant that there is no consensus on which countries constitute the 'Western civilization'. Some believe that countries, which has substantially adopted elements of Western culture, like Turkey, Japan, or South Korea are part of the Western civilization. So based on this uncertainty inclusion of these countries' languages on the list is dubious. But ultimately, this argument is unrelated to the conclusion of deletion nomination. FonsScientiae ( talk) 15:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom, distinguishing my argument to keep the well-documented Brown people. I am willing to change my mind if someone can source this better. Bearian ( talk) 19:41, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 00:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Dongqiao, Tibet

Dongqiao, Tibet (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Tibet Stats)
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Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Cliff Smith 18:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

No sourcing, non-database (i.e. specific) coordinates, specific administrative divisions (Tibet AR is 1.2 million km2), or Chinese/Tibetan to prove the existence of this "village", which may well be a town or township (no surprise, many WP editors are keen on calling towns cities and vice versa when they have official designations). I have successfully PROD-ded this before, and the last time around, the same issues applied, except there at least were coordinates, albeit accurate only to the nearest arc minute. GotR Talk 16:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete until we have proof that this place exists. So far all we have is the word of one person (i.e., the author) that there is such a place as Dongqiao. The author needs to stand up and tell us where he got this info. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 19:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep based new info added by Dr. Blofeld. The coordinates appear to be wrong though: There is absolutely nothing there in the satellite picture. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 19:06, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete without prejudice to re-create - Non-English names that do not have native Latin characters can be very difficult to identify. "Dongqiao" could be one of multiple translated spellings from either Chinese or even a Tibetan language. So far I can't find anything on Dongqiao, but that's not necessarily conclusive evidence that the place doesn't exist. If someone can find this place, perhaps with a different spelling, then it can be re-created. -- Oakshade ( talk) 22:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC) Changed to Keep per Dr. Blofeld and GotR below. -- Oakshade ( talk) 18:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: It seems to be located in Amdo County: [13] [14].-- Cattus talk 00:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
This is not very clear. Judging from those references, it is uncertain whether Dongqiao is a village or town, or something else. The first reference (cjxb.ac.cn) refers to the "Dongqiao area" and "Dongqiao region". The second reference (mindat.org) refers to the "Dongqiao Ophiolite" and the "Dongqiao Ophiolite Complex" ( ophiolite [q.v.] is a geologic feature). It seems that at the present time, all we can say is that Dongqiao is something or some place, not necessarily a town, within the Nagchu Prefecture of Tibet. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 15:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Another source saying it's in Amdo: [15]. I have found no evidence that it is a populated place.-- Cattus talk 19:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I checked the coordinates given in this page [16] on Google Maps and the only thing near that location seems to be a road or a railway track.-- Cattus talk 19:21, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Found a place about 5 km northeast of those coordinates: [17].-- Cattus talk 20:18, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Google Maps says the place is Qiangmazhen.-- Cattus talk 20:29, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Also looked on Google Earth within 0.1° latitude and longitude of the new coordinates TAP gave. Besides Qiangma, the only settlements I can see are villages with clearly Tibetan names ("Dongqiao" is unlikely to be a Chinese transliteration of Tibetan): Naluoba, Selezabu. And I can't be missing something, either: this is inhospitable terrain at 4,600 m+, with, unless my eyes are deceiving me, lakes/ponds that are shown as starting to freeze on 16 October 2011, so there hardly are any settlements around. GotR Talk 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
The location provided by Cattus above appears to be (from satellite view) some sort of industrial installation, or perhaps a remote military base. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 21:40, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Sorry, but the coordinates you provided were for a Dongqiao in Xiangcheng, Suzhou, i.e. on the totally wrong side of the country. GotR Talk 20:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. I am beginning to think that Dongqiao is an area or a region, rather than a village or populated place. Kind of like referring to the Llano Estacado in the United States. The Tripmondo reference that was recently provided does not refer to a village, and there does not appear to be anything at the coordinates given. ••• Life of Riley ( T– C) 21:33, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Both village and geological regions are notable and have coverage in multiple reliable sources. Why is it always left to me to expand, doesn't anybody else have access to google books? I strongly suspect the population and agric data is for another village, probably southeastern China, doesn't sound like typical Tibetan produce! The population is too high for a Tibetan village, but I couldn't confirm the province, Funan I'd imagine, I think there appears to be a settlement there of the same name. Also I don't like the rough database coordinates for villages I always like to match it up with a settlement you can view on satellite, the exact location will need chasing.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:56, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • You are right about your suspicions—I have accounted for them in the article itself. And 6,900 is too high of a population for any Chinese village, but not a more urban residential community.
  • I've checked the National Bureau of Statistics page for Amdo County (as claimed in the article), and have searched every division of the county for villages named "东巧", and returned ZERO results. GotR Talk 18:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Strange. Its possible of course it now has a different name, but multiple reliable sources mention it as a villageabout 90 km west of Amdo.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

I would say its there somewhere around where the coordinates say it is as the book source which says about 90 km west of Amdo as practically matches my own calculation of Qiangma at 90.7 km west of Amdo. Also looking on google earth I've found quite a substantial frozen lake named Dongqiacuo (Dongqia Lake) as cuo means lake to the southwest of the coordinates. I can't locate a settlement though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Voila. I followed the trail and found the exact coordinates here. 90% sure that's it as it as its the largest settlement in the area and an educated guess would say it is fairly near the lake of the same name Dongqia Cuo. Its between northeast of the lake and southwest of where geonames says it is to the southwest of Qiangma. Check it out on google earth. A trial and error as I found numerous villages in the area but based on the lake name and the geonames and it being the largest and practically only settlement between the lake and Qiangma I'd hazard a guess that that's it.

If you zoom in on yahoo maps it is shocking how many villages there actually are in Tibet. I believed previously there was about 800 but the databases at the time didn't record them all. Probably nearer ten times that amount.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

I 2nd that. Dr. Blofeld did an excellent job.-- Oakshade ( talk) 00:45, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I'm confident that the settlement in the coordinates now is correct based on several things. a] One source says its around 90 km west of Amdo which Qiangma is according to google map calculations. b] Geonames indicates thst its south of Qiangma and this is backed by a book source which mentions the rock formations and Qiangma being north of it. c] A give away is the fact that there is a lake called Dongqia Cuo and you'd naturally assume a village to not be too far away. Between the lake and where geonames says it is and its the nearest settlement of significance to the lake so its a good guess I think. There are other villages to the northeast if you follow the path and it would be nice to be 100% certain but at least it doesn't point to nothing as it did before!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep.  —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 05:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Work Drugs

Work Drugs (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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The subject does not seem to meet WP:BAND. No songs in the charts, no gold recordings, no major label and you can count third party references on one hand. — Fly by Night ( talk) 16:16, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • RESPONSE:

'1) Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself.'
'4) Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.'
I believe these following citations cover 1 and 4.

[18] Guardian UK article
[19] or [20] Vancouver tour review
[21] Seattle tour review
[22] Headlining band for the [indie rock] portion of [The Roots] (aka [Jimmy Fallons] band) 4th of July Festival in Philadelphia 2011.
[23] specific mention in the TDCC wiki because of relevance
[24] NY Times
[25] WXPN International Festival
[ http://www.theowlmag.com/album-reviews/tropic-of-capricorn-by-work-drugs/ ] Owl Magazine Album Review
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayneal99 ( talk • contribs) 23:58, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
'2) Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart.'
Yahoo News Article [26]
Last.FM Top Artists of the Year [27]
[28] Major Indie Label Secretly Canadian press release

'11) Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network.
[29] Album of the week for national NPR syndicate WXPN.org
[30] more from wxpn
This should satisfy your concern.

A quick google search reveals that this bandis not only real, but seems to be thriving. A google news search reveals that this band was recently in the top 10 blogged about artists on the hypemachine.They played the roots fourth of july festival last year according to philly.com

They also toured with two door cinema club which is listed on their wikepedia page.

This band was also listed by Last.FM as one of the top 10 discoveries of 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.4.237.202 ( talk) 19:46, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Please note that this is the first edit made by this IP address in three years. — Fly by Night ( talk) 22:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Please state how the subject qualifies for inclusion by meeting the criteria set out at WP:BAND. The so-called "Google test" is an argument to avoid in deletion discussions. In addition, the argument that the subject is notible because they toured with someone famous is another one to avoid — notability canot be inherited. — Fly by Night ( talk) 22:11, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply


  • Note that this vote was made by someone who is trying to contribute factual references to a new article. While I understand and respect the fact that you are a "super user", I don't appreciate the attempts at belittling and discrediting my post statistics, while I'm simply trying to contribute to this community. I understand that I am a new user, but what is truly the difference? I am an 20 year old college student and this is my first entry into Wikipedia. Does that alone discredit my information about this band or anything I post? Should my freedom of speech be threatened by someone who is clearly outside of their wheel house when it comes to indie rock music? Isn't that the point of Wikipedia. I know a bit more about indie rock and you know a bit more about math. Don't get me wrong, I understand that there are many half credible artists trying to create a Wikipedia entry for "fame and glory," but I truly felt this was an artist that deserved to be on here based on the facts of the case. I feel that several of the articles fully satisfy the criteria set out at WP:BAND and thus it should be up for the voting public to decide. Respectfully, Jay. — Jay Neal —Preceding undated comment added 03:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I fixed your signature here. Your link includes a capital N which does not exist in your username. Please fix your signature as soon as possible, as it currently does not link to you as a user. -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 17:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Don't Delete Work Drugs is a well-known band and it makes amazing music. It needs to have a Wiki page and some of us fans are helping them out by making sure the citations are good and the research is well done. I really hope it is allowed to stay! Tejal Johri ( talk) 09:05 PM, 17 July 2012
  • Delete My understanding is that "national music chart" would not be for an online music service, nor would a chart of most blogged bands. Facebook fans don't help establish notability. The coverage in all but the Guardian seems to be trivial, failing WP:GNG. Jayneal99, The article is not being judged on the newness of your account, nor has any attempt been made to belittle or discredit you or your statistics. The WP:SPA notice is a standard thing. No one is trying to threaten your freedom of speech. There is concern since individuals occasionally create accounts to push exactly one viewpoint (justified here by the last commenter claiming to be a fan). It is not meant to offend. -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 17:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Check the dictionary: multiple is a synonymy for several/many. This is the way the policy is meant to be interpreted. If two sources were acceptable then it would say "At least two…". — Fly by Night ( talk) 03:17, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I just did. "Having or involving more than one part, individual, etc: he had multiple injuries" I'm sorry, but your argument fails under its own weight there. Note also that GNG states: "The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources." -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Keep as stated above this band meets 4 of Wikipedia's criteria -- Gart99 ( talk) 21:33, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • "In August of 2011, the song "Rad Racer" was featured in the Urban Outfitters commerical for "Favorite Fall Jeans of 2011"... That has to count for something too,
  • also one could argue that "Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style"-- Gart99 ( talk) 21:43, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Can you please verify these, so far unsubstantiated claims, by citing reliable sources, and stating explicitly which criteria they apply to? I will be happy to withdraw this nomination is someone can supply reliable evidence that this group satisfies WP:MUSICBIO. So far, all-but-one post on this discussion has been from a fan of the band, or a last.fm user. I have nothing against this group. I do, however, have something about diluting the integrity of Wikipedia. — Fly by Night ( talk) 03:21, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I'm not out to defend WP:MUSICBIO at the moment, but I can cover WP:GNG, which should suffice. Please see my response to you above concerning the definition of multiple. I can also confirm in my experience with AfC and AfD that WP:GNG is interpreted (at least by some) to mean not less than two independent, reliable sources. Technically, per WP:WHYN, "We require the existence of at least one secondary source," note that it does not say two. Of course, that is likely not enough to satisfy GNG, but I feel it important to point out. For GNG, though, the Guardian is a reliable source and has in-depth coverage. Knowing nothing of it, I cannot personally vouch for the Oyster. Unless you are calling it into question, though, you would logically agree to a second, as it is also in-depth. -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_(magazine) if this isn't a reliable source, why does it have a wikipedia page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.91.45.231 ( talk) 15:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply

(Weak) Keep, maybe borderline notability, but seems to pass WP:BAND#10 ( [31]) and, less or more weakly, GNG. Cavarrone ( talk) 19:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 00:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Howie Centre

Howie Centre (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Howie Centre was prodded for failing to meet Wikipedia's General Notability Guideline. The proposed deletion was contested by an editor claiming settlements have presumed notability. I was unable to find a notability guideline confirming this, and therefore consider Howie Centre a candidate for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's General Notabiliy Guideline due to the absence of online or non-local sources establishing notability. G. C. Hood ( talk) 16:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Actually I'm going by long standing consensus, as indicated in WP:OUTCOMES as well as the common sense clause in WP:NOTABILITY. Suddenly changing the essay WP:NGEO as you just tried to do because you don't like the probable outcome of one afd is not going to change long standing consensus where there was no sign of consensus changing, including in this afd. -- Oakshade ( talk) 04:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I recognize the consensus, having observed it in other places since proposing this AfD, but feel it should be formalized through a guideline, which the essay is not. G. C. Hood ( talk) 04:17, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
If you had recognized consensus, why did you nominate this for AfD? -- Oakshade ( talk) 18:49, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. WP:SNOW The Bushranger One ping only 01:30, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Final Fantasy Pair : Zack and Aerith

Final Fantasy Pair : Zack and Aerith (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Backstory on a pair of characters from FF7 is too derived to be of encyclopedic value. Also is unlikely to ever contain anything but OR. -- Selket Talk 16:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. WP:SNOW The Bushranger One ping only 01:31, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Final Fantasy Pair: Cloud and Lightning

Final Fantasy Pair: Cloud and Lightning (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Unsourced. Original Research. Reads like a fan essay, not an encyclopedia page. TexasAndroid ( talk) 15:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Why are you even discussing it? -- Niemti ( talk) 22:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy delete a10, title is Portuguese for Content. NawlinWiki ( talk) 16:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Conteúdo

Conteúdo (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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This article seems to be a very long dictionary definition... In Portuguese! Wikipedia is not a dictionary. — Fly by Night ( talk) 15:58, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. As DGG notes, this may well be a notable subject, but the consensus is that the WP:TNT is needed. The Bushranger One ping only 01:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Anti-work attitudes in Haredi Judaism

Anti-work attitudes in Haredi Judaism (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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POV article, inflammatory by its very name. Totally inappropriate and extremely offensive. While the issues raised certainly warrant mentioning, this should be as part of the larger article on Haredi Judaism and it should be in a neutral manner, which this article most definintely is not. -- Piz d'Es-Cha ( talk) 15:26, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete since the article title is inherently non-neutral and the content belongs in Haredi Judaism. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 15:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Update I slightly edited the article (more like, I completely re-wrote it), attempting to turn the content into something more neutral. For reference, this is the previous person, the way it was when I opened the AfD. -- Piz d'Es-Cha ( talk) 15:48, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. Compliments to Piz d'Es-Cha for xis constructive efforts to improve this. The subject matter here is a bona fide issue of controversy in Israel, at least, and maybe elsewhere. A properly NPOV discussion of the topic should have a home somewhere--maybe at Haredi Judaism#Employment, but probably there could be (and perhaps there already is), enough to justify a spinoff article. If we do end up keeping the separate article, it should have a more NPOV title -- something like Haredi Judaism and secular employment, though I'm sure someone can come up with a better one. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 17:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Article is written quite fairly. While the article states that there are some Haredi Jews who are opposed to working, it also mentions that other Haredi Jews are opposed to these attitudes, and that many Haredi Jews themselves are trying to change this. It lifts the information straight from the sources, which themselves, are mostly quite fair. Wikipedia does not whitewash its subjects. I am Jewish myself, and I do not believe in whitewashing the people of my own faith. The sources provided come from a variety of publications that tell it exactly as it is. Xyz7890 ( talk) 17:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. It is clear from the sources (those cited and others available) that the phenomenon of ultra-Orthodox in Israel (and possibly elsewhere) not working is notable. Perceived POV issues with the title or with parts of the article can be resolved through moves and edits, not deletion. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 19:16, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete (or Rename and Drastically Rewrite) The title of the article is a tremendous POV problem that is by far the biggest problem and is contradicted by the content of the article. Imagine an article titled Anti-work attitudes in American pre-teens that stated "About 99% of children ages 6-10 in the United States presently voluntarily do not participate in the secular labor market in order to pursue full-time education and are supported almost entirely through income generated by their parents and government grants given exclusively to those under the age of 18." Another article, titled Anti-work attitudes in American college students might state that "About 80% of college students in the United States presently voluntarily do not participate in the secular labor market in order to pursue full-time education and are supported almost entirely through funds provided by their parents, through charitable contributions made to colleges and universities and with the assistance of heavily subsidized loan programs that cover the cost of their studies, even though they are eligible and capable of obtaining employment and earning income on their own without being a drain on public resources." Sure both are true, but it's written from an entirely slanted perspective which presupposes that these pre-teens shouldn't be in school and should be working, which sounds blindingly obvious in a Western society that believes that children should absolutely not be working and should absolutely be in school and that is of the opinion that time spent by young adults in college is an overall benefit to society. From the perspective of many Haredi Jews, they too believe that Torah study is a goal that justifies their actions. Haredi Jews are not shirking work; what they are doing is failing to fulfill an expectation of secular Western society that education ends by the time someone reaches their mid to late 20s (or beyond in some extreme cases) and that biased POV suffuses the entire article. Without an entirely different title and without a near-complete rewrite, the POV issues presented here are insurmountable. Alansohn ( talk) 21:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete SYNTH and OR and ignorant WP:HATE. This article is unrecoverable since it is disgustingly one sided, out of context, and false. What more? The sources are from the media, not anything deeply close to rabbinical reliable sources. -- Shuki ( talk) 22:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete The article title is inherently non-neutral and lacks academic sourcing, a prerequisite for such kinds of articles Ankh. Morpork 23:39, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM, starting with Rename, then fixing content POV issues. The sources are out there, giving the topic a neutral treatment is probably possible. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 00:47, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • There is nothing to fix. WP does not tolerate articles like this. There is no article about Anti-work attitudes in Spain, or Anti-paying taxes in Islam. -- Shuki ( talk) 18:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • If there isn't, it's because a) that's a poor name b) There aren't sources for it and/or c) no one has written it. This does appear to be an actual topic of discussion though, so there is the possibility of neutrally reporting the relevant viewpoints. If WP:TNT is necessary though, I won't be opposed. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 03:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Redirect whatever is salient to Haredi Judaism, otherwise it's just a tendentious violation of WP:POVFORK and WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Haredim are NOT "anti-work" as that would verge on an anti-semitic libel. In the USA and the West Haredim work. In Israel they have issues with going to the army that hinders them from getting jobs (see: Refusal to serve in the Israeli military#Haredi Jews) while there is a positive Torah-study culture, but they are not "anti-work" which makes them sound retarded and they are most definitely not that. IZAK ( talk) 02:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NPOV and WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Starting from the anti-POV title, the article comes at the topic with a strong bias, making the lead read like a back-and-forth apology for "anti-work attitudes". The body of the article is a superficial treatment of a complicated subject and does not have proper referencing. Any reliable sources should be incorporated into the subject already covered in Haredi Judaism. Yoninah ( talk) 08:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:NPOV, WP:RS, WP:FORK, WP:TNT, Yoninah's arguments, and WP:SOAP. What a mess, filled with weasel words. It may be true, but for this inflamatory article, we need much better sourcing. Bearian ( talk) 19:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Just renamed it to Views of work in Haredi Judaism to be more neutral. Xyz7890 ( talk) 01:23, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • The weasel wording makes the title different, but the inherent bias / POV remains. Where are the articles for Views of work in Presbyterianism, Views of work in Buddhism or Views of work in Santeria? OK, there is an article for Protestant work ethic, but that's a concept with a far more genuine pedigree in scholarly literature. The inherent point of the article -- even with the new title -- is that many Haredi Jews devote their lives to the study of Torah when by all rights they should be working and earning a living, rather than accepting government aid and charity, and that there is something inherently wrong with that life choice. The article is irredeemably biased and should be deleted. It is clear that a rename and rewrite will never solve the inherent bias here. Alansohn ( talk) 02:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • Yes, it may seem silly to have an article about the views of work in every religion. But the general notability guideline matters a lot. The topic of working among Haredi Jews has been the subject of many reliable sources over the course of many years as some Haredi Jews have either made the choice not to work or otherwise been forced not to, and other Haredi Jews and other Jewish groups altogether have opinions supporting their employment. In most other religions, you will not find such articles, so the GNG cannot be met with them. Xyz7890 ( talk) 02:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • NOTE: The creator of the article is User Xyz7890 ( talk · contribs) who has just renamed it to the euphemistic "nicer sounding" " Views of work in Haredi Judaism", since he sees that his article is facing a lot of flack. It is highly unusual and probably wrong for the creator of any article to move and change a name of an article while it faces an AfD. It is intellectually dishonest and moves the goal posts and makes it hard to keep comments in an AfD focused. Improving an existing article is fine, but moving its name around in an attempt to camouflage its original offensive and misleading title is not acceptable. The article should be moved back to its original name. Even under its new title, the article is clearly a violation of WP:POVFORK and anything that is worth it can go to the main Haredi Judaism article as a couple of sentences. IZAK ( talk) 05:41, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Double Note The above note is not strictly correct. Fixing problems highlighted in the AfD discussion is encouraged, and changing the title, while it may cause confusion, can be done, so long as it's made appropriately clear that has happened, consider Wikipedia:Guide_to_deletion#You_may_edit_the_article_during_the_discussion. In fact, anyone here can work to improve the article even as this discussion is ongoing, many articles are saved in this manner. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 07:36, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Note 2.5 Additionally, if you want to move some of the content to another article instead of rewriting, I'd recommend calling for a merge, makes things easier. Darryl from Mars ( talk) 07:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • I do think that the new title was legitimately intended to address concerns raised here. On the other hand, WP:AFDEQ states that "While there is no prohibition against moving an article while an AfD discussion is in progress, editors considering doing so should realize such a move can confuse the discussion greatly, can preempt a closing decision, and can make the discussion difficult to track." Alansohn ( talk) 11:59, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This is a propagandistic article to the extent of G11. The title change helps, but the negative implications of the wording remain. After first stating correctly that this does not apply to the majority of Haredi, and that it applies even in Israeli to only a little over half of the group, the article continues as if it does apply to all. The paragraph contrasting the situation in Israel with that elsewhere seems designed to cast a negative light upon the attitudes in Israel, by emphasising the variety of occupations undertaken elsewhere. The article discusses not just the employment situation, but the funding sources of the movement, the exemption from military service, & political participation. I especially noticed the sentence " Some believe this could lead to an economic collapse". The source is actually one individual, not "some".
I have repeatedly argued here that articles about features of traditional Judaism that are in conflict with most contemporary attitudes should be rewritten, not deleted, although I am aware such articles have sometimes been written with the purpose of denigrating the religion and the culture. This particular topic is real, and should be covered, & I am not even going to say that I disagree with some of the views in the quoted sources. But this article is hopelessly contaminated. DGG ( talk ) 19:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was no consensus. T. Canens ( talk) 16:25, 26 July 2012 (UTC) reply

South Indian film industry

South Indian film industry (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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There are articles on Tamil cinema, Telugu cinema, Kannada cinema and Malayalam cinema. This article just borrows text from all four and presents a product with an unofficial and highly vague title which is barely mentioned in any sources. Plus, the creator has been blocked as a sockpuppet of another editor. Secret of success ( talk) 15:06, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Sorry, but the overview could very well be presented in Cinema of India. If there is South Indian film industry, there must also be provision for 'North Indian film industry' and 'East Indian film industry'. But these terms are never used by people and highly vague. There is no common meaning for the term and the industries, whenever referred to, are done so separately. Secret of success ( talk) 12:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep There is indeed a lot of scope for this article to mention about the commonalities of the four cine industries which could not be included in the individual articles. But, right now, the article is heavily biased towards tamil cinema. -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 18:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Could you clarify what in "common" can be mentioned for an encyclopedic article to stay, as you claim? Secret of success ( talk) 15:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
And I'm sure "The Madras presidency was divided into linguistic States, known today as Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu. The division marked the beginning of a new era in South Indian cinema. Cinema was celebrated regionally and exclusively in the language of the respective State." is an exceptionally well sourced statement, along with the many others like this. Given that it's on Wikipedia, that statement must be correct. Just sayin, Michael. — Spaceman Spiff 03:47, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
As per the West India article, Mumbai, the city where Bollywood is based is a part of it. In that case, Bollywood falls under the 'West Indian film industry' but till now no one has used the term to describe. As Mumbai is not a part of North India, Bollywood is not a part of the North Indian film industry. But look at the number of sources referring to it as such. That is why, these terms are highly vague and do not possess an official definition. There is no reason as to why Cinema of India cannot accommodate info from this article. Secret of success ( talk) 17:02, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
'North Indian film industry' could be a vague term. But 'South Indian film industry' is certainly not. Please have a look at the number of articles in National newspapers that I have quoted in the below comment (I am sure there are much more available). I could not find the term 'North indian film industry' in any national newspapers. The only instance was " We request the brothers in the North Indian film industry not to attend the IIFA awards" quoted in 'India Today'. This is a quotation by some one, and not an editorial statement written by any journalist. -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 18:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Sorry, the term 'South Indian film industry' can exist only when it is ambiguous to North, West or East Indian industries. If there are no articles possible on the latter three, the ambiguity is unnecessary and the title becomes 'Indian film industry' which already exists. Secret of success ( talk) 15:18, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
It is not the government that classifies the film industry into South, North, etc to expect a uniformity. The term is coined by the media and people and there are sufficient evidences for it. The term exists because of the similarity between the four cine industries. North, West, East does not have a group of cine industries together, and hence there are no terms like 'West Indian cine industry', 'North Indian...'. The fact that North, East, West film industries doesn't exist should not stop having an article on 'South Indian film industry'. If a topic meets the notability guideline, it can have its own article. -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 15:30, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
So, even if the term is mentioned only by the media and has no official usage, it can still have an article? Secret of success ( talk) 07:53, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Why not? Many articles in Wikipedia are of that kind. -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 09:08, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Example? Btw, do South Indian films have a common governing body like the Film Producers Association (Governmental)? All the film industry articles I have seen till date have one. Secret of success ( talk) 14:46, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Writing an article does not need the existence of any such association. We can write that the term 'South Indian film industry' refers to the 4 cine industries, and write about the actors, producers, technicians who work across all 4 industries, and the film fare awards that are given together for the 4 industries, and mention that film remakes are common and frequent among the 4 industries, etc, etc.... -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 15:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Sorry, the South becomes a film industry only if it is officially recognized by a governing body. As the media have coined it and there is no official acceptance, it becomes gossip, which is unencyclopedic. The highest authority for the Indian film industry is the CBFC, and it does not even use that word in certifying films. They are always grouped as separate ones. The only proper material you can coin here is the Filmfare part. Also, it does not answer as to why the info cannot be written in Cinema of India. Secret of success ( talk) 16:17, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
How about this- South Indian Film Chamber of Commerce? and where would you write these in Cinema of India. a separate section? or inside or each of the section 'Tamil Cinema', 'Telugu Cinema'...?? -- Anbu121 ( talk me) 16:26, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Hmmm...All right, your last comment has made me change my stance to a certain extent. The South Indian film industry is governed by a widely supported organization, constituting the film chamber of commerce from all the four industries. This makes them official to some extent. Please note my comment below. Secret of success ( talk) 15:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Let me make my stance more clear. I agree that the content in the article is heavily biased POV pushing and some of the statements unsourced. But, that is not a sufficient rationale for deletion. An article must be deleted only when the subject of the article (South indian film industry in this case) is not notable and does not deserve an article on its own. Look at the media articles below:
IIFA puts the spotlight on the South Indian film industry - Times of India
South film industry gets bigger - Times of India
South film industry to boycott those who attend IIFA - Indian Express
South film industry backs banned actress Nikita Thukral - Hindustan Times
Sabu Cyril's too expensive for South Indian cinema - Hindustan Times
Nayantara- The Queen of South Indian Box Office - New Indian Express
South Indian films rocked at National Awards - Hindustan Times
South-Indian films make a splash - Hindustan Times
South Indian movies: The good, the bad and the ugly - Hindu Business Line
The term 'South indian film industry' is well known among the media as well as the people. What the article needs is a complete clean up: removal of unsourced statements and removal of irrelevant POV statements.- Anbu121 ( talk me) 10:11, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

St. Johns Orthodox Church, Kadammanitta

St. Johns Orthodox Church, Kadammanitta (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Contested prod. This seems to be a non-notable church with no independent sources. Article was a sub-stub (without any evidence of notability and a borderline speedy candidate if you consider churches to be a "group" not a "building"). Now the article reads like an advertisement, and there are still no reliable, independent sources. IronGargoyle ( talk) 14:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Comment - I'll be interested to see how this goes. A church established as far back as 1842 would normally be declared as automatically notable at AfD, in my experience. Churches are established landmarks, have congregations, communal activities and importance to their community as a consequence. However, this article is a car crash in terms of the way it is written, highly promotional in nature and sourced only to the church website. My head says 'delete' but... if one reliable independent source can be located, I'll advocate 'keep and clean up'... Sionk ( talk) 17:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
It makes sense to delete it, but if sources can be found, I would be up for helping out with cleaning up. sageinevntor 18:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
N.B. most of the article was a copyright violation of the church website and I've removed the offending section. Sionk ( talk) 18:18, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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P.S. See also User:Bearian/Standards#Notability_of_historic_churches, for which I don;t think it passes. Bearian ( talk) 19:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep - article length is quite short, and so merger/redirection to Year 2000 problem may be appropriate, if editors of the page form such a consensus. Not really discussed here. Wily D 08:11, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Date windowing

Date windowing (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Non notable concept, no external reliable sources indicate its notability. Shadowjams ( talk) 13:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Delete Shows no evidence of notability, plus it's unsorurced. Electriccatfish2 ( talk) 23:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep There is actually a source. Look at the page why don't you? Also, I believe due diligence is not being done here. My response (to the hastily added speedy deletion tag) on the talk page is left unresponded to. Its neither proper nor polite to ignore my response and instead file an AFD. I don't appreciate this in the least bit. Why not spend 30 seconds talking to me so we can figure out where we disagree. Fresheneesz ( talk) 04:51, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It is a well known technique for handling two digit dates. It became notable as a solution to the Y2K problem and windowing is mentioned at Year 2000 problem. The article is new and needs a lot of work, but it shouldn't be difficult to find sources. There is scope for expanding the article, for example, here is a variant of the technique that uses a sliding window ( sliding window). CodeTheorist ( talk) 18:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    The only context where there's any mention of it I found is provided in that Y2K article. It's a trivial subset of the Y2K issue at best, and it's already covered there. Perhaps you could describe it as a premature fork, but with the same conclusion. Shadowjams ( talk) 21:31, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Merge should be considered WP:BEFORE nomination, not during. Please do the required work before nominating something. -- Kvng ( talk) 14:07, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I never argued for a merge. You both misunderstand. I'm saying it's a trivial fork of the Y2K article. There's nothing to merge because the information is already in the fork. And saying this is a BEFORE issue is ridiculous. Even if it was a merge suggestion, merge is a perfectly valid conclusion at AfD. I'm not sure how you think BEFORE somehow excludes that possibility. But again, merge was never the argument. Perhaps you should take a look at WP:REDUNDANTFORK. Shadowjams ( talk) 18:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
That is the problem right there Shadow. Merges, redirects, and article improvements should be considered *before* marking something for deletion. A merge is only a valid conclusion of an AfD when the AfD was created improperly in the first place (as it was here). Fresheneesz ( talk) 21:15, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Date windowing is a very widely used technique. It was used extensively to address the Y2K problem, and is still being used in newly developed software. I believe date windowing will become even more notable when all those Y2K "fixes" hit the end of their date windows. Let this article live and develop. Mr Barndoor 13:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Barndoor ( talk • contribs)
That's kind of my argument for deletion... it's an unnecessary content fork on a trivial subset of a topic that's already amply covered there. Shadowjams ( talk) 18:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Sorry for being terse. There's a reliable source there citing the topic. That was one of your complaints in nominating this for AfD. If you believe this topic is adequately covered in Year_2000_problem you should have suggested a merge WP:BEFORE nominating here. -- Kvng ( talk) 13:33, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep We see date windowing used all the time in everyday life here in the U.S. at least. Many governmental sites still rely on it. The article needs a lot of work, but removing it is not the right answer—expanding it is. In particular, I'd like to see it cover problems that occur with date windowing in more detail. Abhayakara ( talk) 23:06, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - Aside from the unsourced claims above about its relevance, here are a few common searches for the term, and their utter lack of notability: 1) Google book search for "date window" computer science, entire first page reveals nothing related to this topic, rather the more colloquial use of the term to describe a time-frame around a certain date, like in law or anthropology. 2) Book search for "date windowing". This is the most fruitful search. There's actually a published book reference to it, and it's mentioned in government reports. Notably though, every hit on the first page is related to Y2K. The book hits may look notable, but keep in mind in both instances there is 1 paragraph dedicated to it in books designed specifically around debugging software systems. That is, 1 paragraph in a 400 page book, and 1 subsection of a chapter in the other. The rest of the mentions are all related to Y2K issues. Simple programming workarounds used sparingly in code (as opposed to fundamental structures, like loops and control statements) are not notable enough for their own article unless there's sufficient nontrivial mentions. Moreover, it's amply covered in the Y2K article. I'm befuddled at most of the responses above since there's little non trivial reliable sources. Shadowjams ( talk) 18:57, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Even if your assessment is true, that it isn't notable enough to have its own article, the information is clearly good for an encyclopedia and it is cited. A deletion is inappropriate. Fresheneesz ( talk) 21:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was kept. I'm closing this early because the nominator himself has voted "keep with rewrite" below, which I take to be a withdrawal of the AFD. Angr ( talk) 19:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Light verb

Light verb (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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I have nominated this article for deletion. It appears to be original research and cites only a single reference for the entire page. This concept doesn't even exist in any of the mainstream fields related to this sort of topic including linguistics or grammar. Drew.ward ( talk) 12:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete - I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say that a verb has "little semantic content" - evidently, it wouldn't be in the sentence if it didn't contribute to its meaning. Contribution to meaning isn't something that can be quantified ("the weak verb adds 5% of the meaning"). Of course, if this is a category which has been suggested by some professional linguists, it may be notable, but would need more information about who is proposing it. The article as it is presents it as an established concept. The article discusses valid questions of semantic composition, but this would probably fit better in other articles. Count Truthstein ( talk) 13:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I disagree with your first sentence; there are plenty of examples of words that only serve syntactic structure, without meaning of their own. — Tamfang ( talk) 18:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Grimshaw, Jane, and Mester, Armin (1988). "Light Verbs and Θ-Marking". Linguistic Inquiry 19(2):205–232.
  • Miyamoto, T. (2000). The Light Verb Construction in Japanese: the role of the verbal noun. John Benjamins Publishing Company.
  • Butt, M. and Geuder, W. (2001). "On the (semi)lexical status of light verbs". In Corver, N. and van Riemsdijk, H., editors, Semi-lexical Categories: On the content of function words and the function of content words, pp. 323–370. Mouton de Gruyter, Berlin.
  • Stevenson, S., Fazly, A., and North, R. (2004). "Statistical measures of the semi-productivity of light verb constructions". In Proceedings of the ACL 2004 Workshop on Multiword Expressions: Integrating Processing, pp. 1–8, Barcelona, Spain. ACL
  • Yee Fan Tan, Min-Yen Kan, and Hang Cui (2006). "Extending corpus-based identification of light verb constructions using a supervised learning framework". In Proceedings of the EACL Workshop on Multi-Word Expressions in a Multilingual Contexts, pp. 49–56, Trento, Italy, April. ACL.
  • Samardžić, Tanja and Merlo, Paola (2010). "Cross-lingual variation of light verb constructions: Using paral­lel corpora and automatic alignment for linguistic re­search". In Proceedings of the 2010 Workshop on NLP and Linguistics: Finding the Common Ground, pp. 52–60, Uppsala, Sweden, July. ACL.
This should suffice to establish that the topic is notable, but Google scholar search will give you many more.  -- Lambiam 14:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. As per evidence above. I do agree that the page could contain more references, and an explanation of what a light verb construction is. However, it doesn't make the topic non-notable. (Disclaimer: I am one of the authors cited above.) -- unkx80 ( talk) 15:43, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - already sourced, and easily sourceable further. Bearian ( talk) 20:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per sources added and other improvements by Lambiam, Tjo3ya, Unkx80 and others over the past couple of days, with my thanks to those editors. Cnilep ( talk) 03:07, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The sources listed above by user Lambian clearly demonstrate notability. Not an expert by any means but I wondered if something could be added to the article to suggest that it is possibly not a universally accepted linguistic category. The article on Predicates does this well, although I stress that my remarks are from the point of view of a user rather than a potential editor. Cottonshirt τ 09:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • keep with rewrite As the consensus seems to be "keep" and I will concur that the article has encyclopaedic value. However, I qualify this "keep" with the requirement that the article be rewritten to make it clear that this is only a single theory of many and that it's neither generally accepted nor a concrete part of the grammar of any given language. Also, I feel that the article (and mentions of it in other articles) should be reworded to light verb constructions as the theory proposed in the sources cited purports not that there is such thing as a "light verb" which is how this article reads and how most readers would interpret it, but rather that regular verbs may sometimes be used in such a way that they do not carry the ability to convey the full verbal content of the verbal construction in which they appear without functioning in tandem with an additional element. I would also recommend that rather than being treated as a sub-classification of verbs as it currently is (grouping them with things like auxiliaries in a functional manner) that instead the theory of these constructions be treated similarly to phrasal verbs and idiomatic constructions -- multi-word functional grammatical units which only taken as a whole convey a given set of semantic, syntactic, and pragmatic qualities. Drew.ward ( talk) 14:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. WP:SNOW The Bushranger One ping only 01:32, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply

The adventures of Clive and Banana boy

The adventures of Clive and Banana boy (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Contested PROD, I would tag for speedy delete (as hoax), but I didn't in the first instance so I don't think it would be appropriate to do so now. I can't find anything which substantiates the existence of this game. However if someone can a reference to it I'll also nominate for WP:Notability. Callanecc ( talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 12:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:04, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Outline In Color

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Appears to be a non-notable band. One EP released on a minor label so far, with the band "currently working on their first full-length album". I cannot find any evidence that this band meets the criteria for inclusion set out at WP:MUSIC. — sparklism hey! 10:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Shrawan panjja

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If subject is notable, you sure can't tell by looking at this "article" (it's only at AFD because the CSD was removed by an anon IP). Dori ☾ Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 09:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Userfying can be considered if somebody does want to improve it and asks for an userfy.  Sandstein  06:17, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Kinetiq

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Contested prod. Slovenian film. Much of the article is devoted to the plot, and the critical reception is only mentioned in vague terms ("many critics..."). No sources, and I can't find anything on Google. Delete.  Blanchardb - Me• MyEars• MyMouth- timed 08:05, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete and return to its author. We have difficulties in finding sourcing for Slovenian films certainly and, as this is a new film, we can give this brand new article back to to its creator as a userspace draft while he finds and adds the required sources. Allow it back once issues are addressed. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:49, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Delete, no need for userfying. No notability whatsoever. This is an amateur short film made by school kids, the "many critics..." part probably refers to their classmates. — Yerpo Eh? 06:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • ?? If it had notablity, I would not have suggested deletion, and am in no way stating that it be kept in article space. How did you make your determination that is was "an amateur short film made by school kids", and why would you suggest that a user not be allowed to work on an article in userspace? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 00:24, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Please, watch it yourself and then decide what's the point of hosting this description here, article space or not. — Yerpo Eh? 20:04, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
An amteurish film effort, no doubt... no matter who made it. And it does not belong in article space, but I had already said as much. But as EVERY editor started as newb, why would you suggest that a user not be allowed to practice on an article in userspace... even a crap article? Do you not think working in a sandbox can help a new editor improve even if he has chosen a topic that may never be suitable for mainspace? Even a totally awful work-in-progress as a userspace draft is per WP:UPYES and does not violate WP:UPNOT (unless that work violates the guides for using user sandboxes). User sandboxes or workspaces are created as places with fewer rules and policies than other pages on Wikipedia. In a workspsce, a user does not have to follow the Manual of Style or reach community consensus before making changes. However, workspaces must not be used for malicious purposes, and policies such as no personal attacks, civility, and copyrights still apply.
Do I think the article will ever be returned to mainspace? Nope. Does that mean we should prevent a new user from practicing and getting better? Nope. Do I think a new editor might benefit from practicing in his sandbox? Likely. And if the thing sat in userspace for a couple months without being worked on at all, then I could see an argument about WP:NOTWEBHOST as applicable and would Mfd it myself. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 07:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
In my opinion, the text on the page Kinetiq is a blatant promotion ("So, basically these are just minor flaws and a fair trade for such a brilliant film"??) and clearly WP:UPNOT. In itself, this doesn't mean that the tone couldn't be improved, but the subject itself is far from notable and I don't see a point. The user can choose another, non-contentious subject for practicing if he wants to contribute to Wikipedia, but his editing pattern so far suggests that promoting the clip was his goal, not building an encyclopedia. — Yerpo Eh? 11:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete.  Sandstein  06:22, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Erik A. Williams

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Self-promotional and non-notable. Article has been deleted at least five times in the past and always reappears later. Nearly the entire article is cited from facebook, myspace and imdb.com, none of which are reliable sources. Other AfDs for this article in the past under different article names include Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erik A Williams. Trusilver 07:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

This has been an ongoing issue with the particular article for years now. The subject of the article is also the chief driving force behind getting it on Wikipedia. He edits under the username Erkman27, and has a substantial history of creating self-promotional articles. Since the last time the article was deleted I had placed a copy of it in my sandbox just for future reference, this user had been working on it there for several months, and I find it interesting to note that the article appears to have been transcluded directly from my sandbox to mainspace by User:Robnthorsen after User:Erkman27 was done working on it. This speaks very loudly of sockpuppetry to me, though I feel this is secondary as any WP:COI issues are the least of this article's problems. Trusilver 09:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply


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  • Delete While style and tone are otherwise addressable issues and do not themselves require deletion, we have a person whose acting work consists primarily of minor, unnamed, or uncredited roles. [36] And while he has credits as a director and producer, these are again for many less-than-Wikipedia-notable titles. While one can admire his taking a part in so many projects, the crux here lies on verifiability and coverage. Dispite his body of work, no one is taking notice. IF this ever changes the author, User:Robnthorsen, can state his case for a return and present his sources at WP:REFUND. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 22:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep The actor in question not only had a major supporting role in a nationally-broadcast Fox TV drama but is in an upcoming episode of Stan Lee's new web series "Fan Wars." He is also showcased in the trailer for the show. I supplied a reference link here for both the Fox movie and Fan Wars episode but the system continued to block it for some "span filter" thing. This is why I hate trying to update anything on this site. I do my best and research the hell out of all the topics I supply and then I am called out and my information is removed because no one wants to help me learn how to use the system correctly. Instead I get judgment, ridicule, and deleted info for no reason. It is extraordinarily difficult for me to mind read what a "notable" reference is when that is entirely a relative notion. I also have extreme difficulty understanding why this person continues to be called out when there are hundreds (if not thousands) of pages for people on here who I personally would not consider qualifying (all of those of which I mention do not have enough qualifying information according to Wiki standards but you can bet I'm no nark) Robnthorsen, Robnthorsen 10:44, 20 July 2012 (PST)
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:06, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Schlond poofa

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The subject of the article fails WP:GNG, as there are absolutely no reliable sources, which discuss it. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0 07:48, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to Swedish Air Force. Black Kite ( talk) 19:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

FS 2020

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May fail WP:GNG, could possibly also fall under WP:NOT#NEWS. It may best be merged to Swedish Air Force rather than as a standalone article. Zujua ( talk) 07:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Black Kite ( talk) 19:49, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Talkeetna Air Taxi

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A news and books search turns up numerous minor mentions in articles about other subjects. Its founder, Donald Sheldon, has an article but I don't find detailed discussion about this company. Dougweller ( talk) 05:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Keep A company that operates seven aircraft and has a strong claim of notability as they land on glaciers and provide air support for mountaineering expeditions to the tallest mountain in the United States, Mount McKinley as well as expeditions throughout the Alaska Range and to several national parks in Alaska. The solution to shortcomings in the article is to expand it and reference it, not delete it. Many reliable, independent sources discuss this company, such as this, this, this, this and this. There are many more and the challenge is to identify the best ones and add references to the article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Comment Actually I found those. I apologise for not citing WP:ORG, which says "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability." Several mentions in travel guides or travel books with no in depth discussion is not enough to establish notability. "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. " Dougweller ( talk) 04:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Donald Sheldon died in 1975 and was not associated with this company, though he was a pilot who pioneered glacier landings. A redirect is not appropriate. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Comment Here's a 1983 Associated Press story mentioned in the first AfD debate that described the company as "an Alaskan institution". Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I get that those who do not live in Alaska would feel that landing on a glacier or supporting adventurers seems like a free pass to notability. If you have actually spent any time in Alaska you find that such businesses are a dime a dozen. so, instead of making up reasons to stretch the definition of notability we defer to our guidelines. Just so everyone is clear on this point, here is the closest thing we have to a guideline for this particualr area. Basically it tells us to rely on other more general guidelines. Previous discussions of small Alaskan air taxi operations like this wrre plagued by users making up criteria out of thin air and then proudly proclaiming that the subject met said criteria, leading to the discussions that ended with the result that there is no hard line criterion for small airlines. Beeblebrox ( talk) 09:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and improve – This topic appears to meet WP:GNG:
  • Into the wilds: Alaska's towering Denali is worth a peek - New York Daily News
  • Economy worries tourism-fed Talkeetna: Tourism Industry | Alaska news at adn.com
  • newsminer.com • Fairbanks, Alaska (subscription required)
  • "Anchorage Daily News article". Retrieved July 17, 2012. (subscription required)
— Northamerica1000 (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Those all look like trivial mentions, where this organization is mentioned in the cpntext pf a broader subject or employees of it are interviewed about tourism or the economy. I don't see any depth of coverage about the organization itself. Beeblebrox ( talk) 18:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Trivial mentions are things like an obituary that says, "The deceased worked for Talkeetna Air Taxi".  Phone book listings are another example of a trivial mention.  Unscintillating ( talk) 23:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Yep, those are other examples of trivial coverage. Being mentioned in the context of a stroy about something else would also be one. Beeblebrox ( talk) 23:37, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
( edit conflict) While WP:GNG only has the example of the "Three Blind Mice" as an example of trivial coverage; WP:ORG, which applies to the current topic, has 12 examples:
  • sources that simply report meeting times, shopping hours or event schedules,
  • the publications of telephone numbers, addresses, and directions in business directories,
  • inclusion in lists of similar organizations, [2]
  • the season schedule or final score from sporting events,
  • routine communiqués announcing such matters as the hiring or departure of personnel,
  • brief announcements of mergers or sales of part of the business,
  • simple statements that a product line is being sold, changed, or discontinued,
  • routine notices of facility openings or closings (e.g., closure for a holiday or the end of the regular season),
  • routine notices of the opening or closing of local branches, franchises, or shops,
  • routine restaurant reviews,
  • quotations from an organization's personnel as story sources, or
  • passing mention, such as identifying a quoted person as working for an organization.
I'm not seeing how "being mentioned in the context of a story about something else" is either trivial or not trivial.  I think someone would need to know more, because merely being in the context of other material tells us nothing about the attention being given to the topic in the material with the mention. 
I looked at the New York Daily News reference, and I see two paragraphs (or five sentences) directly discussing Talkeetna.  I also see one paragraph that is partially giving attention to Talkeetna.  By itself, I'd say that five sentences may not be a lot of significant coverage.  I might only be able to write one or two encyclopedic sentences with the material.  But it still counts toward notability, it is a reliable source, and it comes from a source that is 3400 miles away.  Do you agree that this source is not trivial?  Unscintillating ( talk) 00:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep  Here is a three-page article on Talkeetna Air Service from the 1972 issue of Sports Illustrated.  For example, we get that the town of Talkeetna, "...can boast of the most versatile bush-pilot operation in all Alaska".  Passes WP:GNG.  Unscintillating ( talk) 23:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
The bulk of that article is about Don Sheldon, I think a better idea would be to redirect this to his article and expand and improve it. Beeblebrox ( talk) 23:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Is the coverage of Talkeetna Air Service in that article trivial or significant?  Unscintillating ( talk) 00:50, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
The Sports illustrated article contains significant coverage about Talkeetna Air Taxi. It also has significant coverage about Donald Sheldon. Northamerica1000 (talk) 00:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. The delete comments make the point quite correctly that if this person was genuinely notable, then there would be multiple significant sourcing about him in reliable sources. This does not of course preclude the subject being notable in the future. Black Kite ( talk) 19:55, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Eric West

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Another puff piece for West sourced by trivial mentions and misrepresented sources. Created at Eric West (actor) to bypass the salt. Has been considerably fixed up since it's creation but still fails to show how this "celebrity" is notable. An unreleased album. Minor music production. Bit parts in single episodes. A part in an unreleased? non notable film. A part in an upcoming film with no indication of wether it is a significant role. Appearing in an advert. Showing up at fashion shows. Where is the notability? West lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources. Nothing satisfying WP:NACTOR or WP:MUSIC. duffbeerforme ( talk) 05:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Speedy Delete G4. Obviously same person, obviously still not notable. If the movie he's supposedly in gets produced, I could see this changing, but for now, no no no. -- Fbifriday ( talk) 06:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Keep How is it someone who is named by MTV as the #5 Breakout Star of 2012 by MTV. Featured in Vanity Fair, US Weekly, Make's the top 100 of IMDB - http://www.eric-west.com/blog/2012/06/01/congrats-to-eric-on-making-imdbs-top-100-actors-in-the-world/ to stay the LEAST is up for a speedy delete? This is the biggest joke there is. Madonna isn't even in the top 500 of IMDB right now and cast in Tyler Perry's new movie. This is a joke. 24.186.99.125 ( talk) 06:09, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    Comment Per WP:GNG ""Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject or its creator. For example, self-publicity, advertising, self-published material by the subject, the subject's website, autobiographies, and press releases are not considered independent." Thus, you linking to the subject's website as a claim of his notability doesn't matter. And, once again, who's in the top 500 on IMDB is about a persuasive as being in the top 500 in the subscriber list on Youtube. It does not make the subject notable. Only independent, reliable sources with significant coverage do that. -- Fbifriday ( talk) 06:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • keep Not open for debate. JFlash54 ( talk) 06:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    comment. The MTV feature is airing as we speak and the article loads just fine for me on two MTV sites! http://movies.mtv.co.uk/news/breakout-stars-to-watch-in-2012/ou7ynn http://movies.tr3s.com/news/breakout-stars-to-watch-in-2012/ou7ynn 5 Breakout Stars to Watch in 201 Eric West Starring in: ‘World War Z’; ‘The Marriage Counselor’ Next Factor: This recording artist and nephew of soul legend Smokey Robinson is taking it to the next level with a plum part opposite Brad Pitt in the biggest zombie epic of all time. After he survives that, Tyler Perry will take West to school in ‘Counselor’ opposite Vanessa Williams and, yes, Kim Kardashian. 24.186.99.125 ( talk) 06:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    Comment In IMDB, his character isn't even named for the Tyler Perry film, and in World War Z, he's listed as "Jason" without a last name or any other details. The only Jason in the book World War Z appears on one page and has one line. Bit part. Not a major part, and per WP:ENT, entertainers are only notable if "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.". Bit parts and extra acting is not significant. -- Fbifriday ( talk) 06:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    Comment I guess Tyler Perry has "extras" at all of his movie premieres? http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2759109120/nm0922064 This deletion doesn't make any sense. He's in movies, TV shows, magazines. JFlash54 ( talk) 06:49, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    Comment See, this is the problem, you think being at premiers and being in minor roles is notable. Per Wikipedia guidelines, it's not. -- Fbifriday ( talk) 07:13, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails WP:NACTOR, just a number of small roles and other minor non-notable work. If the "World War Z" film becomes notable when it is released, and if he has a significant role in it, then he might become notable, but that is in the future and we don't have a crystal ball here. CodeTheorist ( talk) 07:06, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Delete Nothing new here. AfD is not a game of "play until you win". Imdb.com is not a suitable source. He fails WP:ENT by even the most lax interpretation. Trusilver 08:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Putting down the sources; MTV needs to fill space, the US Weekly mention seems like a 'get a warm body in the studio' mention, and you know what? The Facebook mention of him being on Smash means nothing; I could easily grab the Smash logo from a site and make out the same sign in Microsoft Word in ten minutes, take a picture of it, and proclaim on my Twitter account I'm on my way to a Smash dance rehearsal from the comfort of my sofa in Wisconsin. His roles consist solely of one line or less extra roles. And with the way the IMDb 500 may be measured, it could just be a few browsers F5'ed to death to get him there. It's highly likely his "appearance" on Oprah was as a member of the studio audience. Enough; salt this title, salt the rounded salt title, salt Eric West (entertainer) and Eric West (musician), and stop trying to manipulate our site into thinking he's worthy of an article. Nate • ( chatter) 09:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    comment The world's leading weekly magazine needs a warn body? They can have anyone they want. Putting down the world's most important news channel because they need to fill space? There are hundreds of "rising" stars, the worlds largest magazine publishers of the most important magazines around featuring him as a style innovator guess they need to fill pages? Eric is one of the brightest new stars and on many next big thing lists. This all sounds personal. Eric doesn't need to print some random paper and say he is on Smash. He's on MTV as we speak. Jealously is envy. I find it odd that people who don't follow Eric West have such a big opinion on him, with major sources like MTV and Conde Nast he's up for deletion. JFlash54 ( talk) 11:11, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep As JFlash54 mentioned. This nomination is interesting. Valid sources have been mentioned, and more importantly the article just a stub. Wendy Williams finds him notable, she talks about him all the time on her show during Hot Topics and had him on. [37]. There are a lot of people much less notable than West with Wiki's. You can't help but wonder who is behind this. Especially when the words #1 publishing company Condé Nast Publications calls him as an innovator, some Wiki users call him not notable. Interesting. N0075 ( talk) 15:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    comment That's exactly what I mean. People That don't follow Eric have an opinion on him. I just saw the MTV special. He's good enough for MTV but not a Wiki page? He can't even leave his house without being shot by paparazzi. They can't wait for him for Pictures but not good enough for a stub? The same pictures that will end up in US Weekly? http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8156/7583561088_cb88748439_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8164/7583561240_74e9fd61e2_b.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/7583576574_599fa419c7_z.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/7583571368_b2c9e729a3_z.jpg JFlash54 ( talk) 16:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Earlier issues with format and sourcing have not been addressed. So what? As this person is apparently finally receiving recognition in the press (images of Eric West in media being indicative even with the lack of significant coverage), I think we might return this to author User:JFlash54 and encourage he bring it up to speed in a userspace away from article space. Allowing him to work on this stub away from the negtivity could improve the project. If not, then it won't be back. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 23:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy Delete Same pattern as before. It seems like an elaborate prank and would be funny were it not so pathetic. Whoever this person desperate to get a Wikipedia page is, has no regard for and deliberately ignores the fundamental rules of the site and what counts as a source and is verifiable. Last time the Brad Pitt film he wasn't in was Curious Case of Benjamin Button, this time it's World War Z. Last time the D-list diva girlfriend du jour was Christina Milian, now it's Shontelle. Last time he was on Oprah, now it's Wendy Williams with a hilarious 9 second edited video supposed to be proof. You get the drift. All the while he stands in front of a fake background of all his faves for Us magazine and again name checks Madonna as if mentioning famous people enough will mean he'll somehow become famous himself. How stupid does he think we are? -- 82.132.249.192 ( talk) 22:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • comment I think you're stupid.
  1. US Weekly is fake? Screen cap from US Weekly website - http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7635447140_471d9acd6e_b.jpg

Note that Eric is on MTV's Breakout List airing on MTV now. Why would he fake US Weekly? lol

  1. Shontelle : https://twitter.com/Shontelle_Layne/status/136262003273641984
  2. Wendy Williams show? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONtvW-a6ghs

Can anyone take your opinion seriously? 24.186.99.125 ( talk) 07:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was redirect to Tourniquet (band). It does appear that the sources are insufficient (per last comment on AfD). Redirecting to band article as is usual in these circumstances. Black Kite ( talk) 19:59, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Antiseptic Bloodbath

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An album that will likely not chart and does not meet notability guidelines. Album does not inherit notability from the band. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 04:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - the album is notable per the independent sources listed in the article, including Blabbermouth, GospelMais (Brazilian), and The Metal Resource. 5minutes ( talk) 14:29, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Comment The Blabbermouth entries are trivial coverage from a source that isn't particularly reliable. Trivial coverage at GospelMais and I don't know if it's a RS either. And the Dutch site is similarly lacking. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 15:53, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • Comment Well let's be honest. It's a Christian Metal (aka "limited genre" - at some point, you have to ask if all non-Stryper Christian metal albums are trivial) album that hasn't even hit stores as a CD yet (only a very limited digital release). More reviews should be coming over the next few weeks as the album makes its way around. Hence, those "trivial" links should become less trivial. Personally, I think you jumped the gun on this nomination. Like I said on your page, less than 4 hours from page creation to your nomination. Give it some time. 5minutes ( talk) 16:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Let's be honest: WP:NALBUMS is the criteria. This album doesn't really have an expectation of meeting it. Even when the band was in its heyday, it received limited exposure from media. Granted, they have a cult following and are quite instrumental in the development of the genre, but every album must stand on its own.
And as for jumping the gun, the person who created the article is the one who should carry that moniker not the one who nominates it for deletion. Four hours is too long for it to be an article let along four weeks, which is how long this nomination could live. We should only be creating articles for notable subjects not every subject that may one day become notable. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:13, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Per WP:NALBUMS, notability issue falls under the WP:Notability, which calls for significant coverage from reliable, independent sources. I included links to Blabbermouth in the original article in order to assist in meeting this standard. I've added more articles for the same reason, and plan to add more as they become available (have patience, Walter). You toss them aside as trivial, but the real question is: are they reliable and independent sources and is the coverage significant? While the articles at both non-band sources contain some elements of a press release (as any announcement would), they contain some exposition into the band's career, the album's creation, etc. That pretty much covers "independent" and "significant", in terms of metal music (which isn't exactly going to be splashed across the front page of the NYT). I'll leave it to you whether you find Blabbermouth (arguably one of the best sources of news about the metal genre) as reliable or not. 5minutes ( talk) 16:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
The real question is not just reliability of the sources but "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Not my words. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:58, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Yes, and what defines "significant coverage" of a Christian metal band? Should they be held to the same standards as Metallica? Or Stryper? I'd argue that mentions on major metal sites like Blabbermouth and HM Mag are significant enough. Obviously, you disagree, as you're welcome to do. 5minutes ( talk) 19:19, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Blabbermouth is used on 3,620 pages in a variety of capacities and the HM magazine ref seems fine. Perhaps add a {{ refimprove}} is in order but this passes WP:NALBUMS. Nik the stoned 12:30, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. This album lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources. HM merely verifies that it may be existing at some time in the future of the articles date. Blabbermouth sources do not provide in depth coverage of the album, the first is unrelated and just there to make the albums article look more credible, the second is just a press release reproduction saying the album is coming. Christian metal bands do not get special treatment. They and their albums go by the same guidelines as everyone else. duffbeerforme ( talk) 13:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. T. Canens ( talk) 16:35, 26 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Geoff Smart

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The person does seem to be notable, but the promotional format and language is so pervasive that it would be better deleted and rewritten. It is a pair of articles with GhSMART & Company, Inc., which I have just nominated also. Though it could in principle be rewritten I think for this sort of puffery, the balance should lie towards deletion first, and rewriting second, so as not to leave WP page histories cluttered with bad examples--and to make it clear that this sort of work is not tolerated. DGG ( talk ) 04:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete. In this case (BLP) it is abundantly clear that an article like this should not be an article. Drmies ( talk) 04:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete agree with Drmies -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:31, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep What seems abundantly clear here is a prejudice against the world of business which is so strongly biased that our policy WP:CENSOR seems most appropriate. The idea that we should punish imperfect early drafts about people that we don't like by deleting them is quite contrary to our editing policy. Note that, if you look at the edit history, there was another attempt at an article about this person, which was obliterated by a redirect. By preserving the edit history, we are able to follow what's happening here and so try to improve on such faltering attempts. As it is conceded that the topic is notable, deletion would result in a repetitive cycle of creation and deletion, in which the lessons of history would be obscured. And, no doubt, some jobsworth would rush to slap a G4 on any attempt to have another try at documenting this notable topic. Deletion would therefore be doubly disruptive by removing all trace of the existing content and putting bureaucratic obstacles in the path of those who might want to try again. Such deletion would not be based upon our policies and seems strongly counter to core policy. Warden ( talk) 10:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • DGG as a censoring agent? That's...crazy. The lessons of history, that's nice--but any editor can create an article on this person (rather than re-create a fluff piece, which would be really disruptive). There is no bureaucratic obstacle since no one is talking about salting it, and G4 applies only if the "new" version of the article is simply the same unacceptable content which, three editors already agree, is indeed unacceptable. The current content is nothing and does nothing to help an editor write this biography: best to start from scratch with reliable sources, as any article writer (of BLPs) should know. Drmies ( talk) 14:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
        • (reply to Drmies) The current content contains sources such as the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times which are excellent sources for the field of business. Let's consider the first source, for example. This cites the New York Times to confirm that this author is indeed best-selling. This source checks out fine - see NYT. How is this anything but a plain fact which is essential content for a NPOV summary of the person? The claim that this is just fluff and must be deleted seems to be a blatant falsehood and absurd exaggeration. As this is a BLP, I must remind you that this cuts both ways. Insulting this person by suggesting that his accomplishments are insignificant and can be readily discarded as being of no account seems quite derogatory. It seems quite improper to be making such assertions without, it appears, a scrap of detailed evidence or reasoning from the particulars. All I'm seeing from the nay-sayers is hand-waving of a very general kind. Let's have some specifics please. What exactly is "puffery" and why cannot it be addressed by ordinary editing? Warden ( talk) 16:28, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • I have a prejudice with respect to articles on the world of business, but it is a prejudice for having more of them — at present I'm one of the handful of good-faith editors who are improving the exiting ones, and trying to write additional ones. What I do have a prejudice against is the lowest levels of Public relations writing. It's bad enough in its own place on commercial pages, though I wonder how long it will be until those writing meaningless commercial web content realize that it hurts rather than helps the image of their businesses. I especially have a prejudice against it on Wikipedia. It is increasingly degrading the encyclopedia. We had a necessary and successful drive against uncited bio articles; we are doing increasingly well on copyvio. It's time to take care of this third epidemic.
I have almost always argued for keeping and improving existing content, and have joined the Colonel in supporting WP:PRESERVE. But just as I have come to recognize that in general we must get rid of the work of banned editors as one of our few defenses (though not deleting them blindly without first rescuing the few good ones), so I have very reluctantly--if you follow my AfD comments you will know how reluctantly--come to see the need of doing similarly for the worst promotional content. Not all promotional content: I continue to decline as improvable more G11 AfDs than I delete. But it's time for a good pass scraping up and removing the sediment on the bottom. I wish it were possible to turn it to useful purposes, but there's just too much of it, and too few editors willing and able to improve content like this. I am not particularly concerned about not having enough bad examples in the edit history for educational purposes: there will always be a few million ones that will be quite bad enough to show what to avid. Nor am I overly concerned about G4s. The proper handling of G4s is up to the admins--who can see & compare existing and deleted content: some may be careless, but most of us are perceptive enough to see the necessity for it.
I have never before taken the lead in saying that some types are so dangerous to warrant this sort of measure; I say it now because the continuing rise in the public's perceived importance of Wikipedia will predictably lead to a potentially disastrous increase of attempted promotional content: if anyone knows at better way of driving off the worst of it, than by having their employers see the failure of such an approach, I have yet to see it. At the DC Wikimania, even the paid editors I spoke to supported the concept of trying to stop the worst of such editors by denying them articles: they know better than I the unlikeliness of reforming the lower levels of their profession.
Actually, we have another defense, and the Colonel with his superlative research skills is among those best qualified to do it: preempting the paid editors by having good articles in place for the notable businesses. DGG ( talk ) 15:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I've only just read your comment, DGG, but have to reply in haste as I'll be afk for a while. I'm still not understanding what makes this particular article so egregious, in your view. Some specifics please. Warden ( talk) 16:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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I'm judging this article and the one on the company as a pair; I considerthis reasonable considering the extensive duplication. They show what is in my opinion a cynical effort by someone who understands the details of WP rules, and is using them to undermine the purpose of WP--in other words, not a good-faith editor. Since good faith is something hard for an individual to judge definitively,the suggestion to bring it here was a good one--my initial reaction to use G11 was not the best course, which is why I do not normally delete articles single-handed. Besides the extensive duplication I see the attempt to put all sorts of awards and statements of excellence in the first paragraph,use long strings of management jargon of the lowest degree of originality e.g. "he 100% employee-owned firm specializes in management assessment for pre-hire decisions at the CEO and board levels," "database of thousands of leader biographies" "whose mission is to elevate humanity by identifying, developing, and deploying society's greatest leaders", --and I fell a high degree of impatience with people who call themselves Social entrepreneur, in both their infobox and lede paragraph, and use the term once more in claiming authorship of a book about which books that "Three United States governors, social entrepreneurs ... and over 30 CEOs have endorsed ... prior to its forthcoming publication" I don't like to use a few selected quotes of the low points to condemn an article, but these are random, not selected: any four sentences of the article would be just as irremediable. Any notable or non-notable person deserves this sort of thing stricken from the record. DGG ( talk ) 04:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • When I myself consider the four sentences that you've picked out, I find the first two to be bland statements of fact without much in the way of spin. They seem fine. The other two are too promotional in tone for my taste too. I would prune the latter and keep the former. I'm really not seeing what the problem is with "database of thousands of leader biographies", for example. What's the problem in saying this as it seems very relevant for a company that specialises in executive search. The source article in the WSJ indicates that they use this database in an especially scientific and analytical way and that their methods have attracted academic interest. This seems good information and we might profit from studying their methods as Wikipedia has a database of thousands of biographies too. Anyway, thanks for the feedback; it seems that we must agree to disagree. Warden ( talk) 13:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • One of the elements of these sentences that struck me is the use of"leader biographies" instead of executive biographies" or plain "biographies";, "pre-hire decisions" for employment decisions, and those only "at the CEO and board levels" -- the attempt to find phrasing to indicate that the firm deals only with important people. It's boasting, not description, with an attempt to attract attention by unusual phrases. Standard advertising techniques, but not encyclopedic. Again, they are not selected phrases: I could find such stuff anywhere in the article. I'm trying to explain why I noticed this one. But the final reason that caused me to lose patience was the duplication of content with the company, not a good-faith technique. DGG ( talk ) 18:44, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It is not elegantly written, but when you need a source for every word the article becomes "choppy" by default. At any rate, now it's a well-sourced article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gubina ( talk • contribs) 11:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I'm with DGG and Drmies here: perhaps the guy is notable, but who can see that through this horrible PR-language article? "His professional mission is to create, communicate, and put into practice useful ideas about leadership"? Really? That's his goal in life or was it his PR adviser writing this drivel? Reading this thing, I think it could reasonably have been speedied as spam. -- Guillaume2303 ( talk) 20:56, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. WP:TOOSOON. No prejudice against recreation at the properly capitalized title if and when she becomes notable. This capitalisation salted to match the proper one until then. The Bushranger One ping only 01:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Emily kaiho

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Subject does not appear to be any more notable than she was the four previous times this article was deleted. Article was prod'd for notability, but prod was removed by article creator, who says they're also Kaiho's manager. Does not meet either WP:NACTOR (only in one movie) or WP:GNG. Dori ☾ Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 02:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. WP:SOFTDELETE The Bushranger One ping only 18:38, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

PCoIP

AfDs for this article:
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Non-notable software product from non-notable company. Article has been to AfD twice before and both times was redirected to Desktop virtualization. This new version has only two sources, one a blog and one the company website. No evidence of notability. (Couldn't PROD this as has already been PRODded in the past). Pam D 16:20, 2 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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This argument would require that you actually list the relevant reliable sources you found. ( WP:GHITS precludes the number of hits as an argument.) -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:20, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 18:38, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Kappa Gamma

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Non-notable club with only 1 chapters nationwide. Fails WP:N and WP:ORG standards of notability. Insufficient third party sources to establish notability. Notable members does not create notability for the organization. GrapedApe ( talk) 12:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC) reply

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Hi- Please keep this page as this fraternity is a notable one in the deaf community. It is run by well-rounded men who have served the community of the Deaf and fought for their rights as a deaf individual. Please reconsider. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.74.35.6 ( talk) 14:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Delta Gamma Iota

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Non-notable club with only 2 chapters nationwide. Fails WP:N and WP:ORG standards of notability. Insufficient third party sources to establish notability. GrapedApe ( talk) 11:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was delete. Nobody supports retention. The author is thanked for their conribution but also asked to read our policies WP:NOR and WP:V.  Sandstein  06:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

OECD Public Governance Reviews

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Huge, reflective commentary. WP:OR essay. Basalisk  inspect damage⁄ berate 15:24, 2 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Actually, it's an attempt at an encyclopaedia article written by what appears to be the Justin Kavanagh who works in the GOV directorate of the OECD. The problem is that M. Kavanagh clearly knows things that haven't been properly written down and published outwith Wikipedia. There is published documentation of the OECD's Reviews, in Pal 2012 for example. But it doesn't support quite a lot of this content. Uncle G ( talk) 17:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Pal, Leslie A. (2012). Frontiers of Governance: The OECD and Global Public Management Reform Public Sector Organizations. Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN  9780230319745.
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The result was delete. The Bushranger One ping only 01:16, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

List of Son Pari episodes

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Some fan way back in 2008 decided to express their love by writing this article. After 5th episode of 260 they probably realized better ways of spending time. Unsourced page-filler abandoned trivia. §§ AnimeshKulkarni ( talk) 14:35, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was Speedy Delete per WP:CSD#A7 (Non-admin closure). — sparklism hey! 09:27, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply

J.K (rapper)

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The article includes claims of notable collaborations, but none of the references listed are reliable nor do they corroborate these claims (all 4 are blog or social networking sites). Therefore appears to fail WP:Inherited as well as WP:GNG -- no results from Google News or Books on the subject. -- IShadowed 05:43, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Delete: Ranked 4 of 7 and having fan sites as references really isn't notable. Based on statistics from sites referenced, this person is not notable by my standards (and from what I can tell, Wikipedia's). Delete under WP:GNG Piandcompany ( talk) 23:19, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) BusterD ( talk) 12:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Spindrift (novel)

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Non-notable book. Author is apparently notable, but no suggestion that this book made any sufficient splash on bestseller lists to qualify for an article ( talk→  BWilkins  ←track) 23:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Merge to Allen Steele. Searching for the author's name with the novel's title yields about six references, most of which appear trivial, but of the paywalled ones, this appears to be an independent, non-trivial RS discussion of this novel. Having said that... it's the only one I could find. Jclemens ( talk) 00:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC) reply
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Sorry, but the majority of those sources fail WP:RS, and the ones that might pass (Publishers' Weekly, et al) look to be generic author-provided, in-universe descriptions (not a rational, third-party treatment of the subject). // Blaxthos ( t / c ) 00:41, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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That is not sufficient. We will keep an article on any book by a famous writer, on the grounds that anything the person writes will attract critical attention; this does not apply to merely notable writers. I see good evidence the author is notable, not that he is famous. DGG ( talk ) 19:19, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Notwithstanding my comment just above, this particular book is notable, because of the reviews.Such reviews have always been accepted here as demonstrating notability. If it were part of a series, we'd redirect to that series; since it is related to a series, we might do similarly, but the best & simplest course is to keep it as a separate article. DGG ( talk ) 19:21, 18 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Obvious Keep multiple reviews, passes GNG and WP:NBOOKS#1. Cavarrone ( talk) 09:48, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment Based on the work done, ref's added, etc, the article appears to now adequately cover the concerns that led to the AFD nom. I'd be in theory willing to retract the nom, but it's close enough to being closed as "keep" that such a close would be the better option at this time. ( ✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 10:15, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Keep - meeting WP:N is a persuasive argument in the absence of any special circumstances. Topical guidelines in general supplement N, they don't superseed it. Wily D 08:20, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

We'll Be Coming Back

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WP:CRYSTALBALL, WP:GNG, WP:MUSIC Nouniquenames ( talk) 16:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Keep Initially I suspected this was an obvious deletion candidate, but I'm seeing quite a few interesting sources in a GNews search making me believe that sources will improve significantly in a couple of weeks, so deletion seems unnecessary. Example sources showing suitable impact:
  1. http://www.itn.co.uk/home/49674/Example+I+27trashed27+a+Porsche
  2. http://www.metro.co.uk/music/903913-calvin-harris-and-example-stage-heist-in-new-video-for-we-ll-be-coming-back
  3. http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2012/07/nice_hits_is_a_reverb_14.php
-- Fæ ( talk) 16:35, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment That sources may or will improve is not a valid keep rationale. WP:DEADLINE -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 19:28, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • You seem to be missing the point of the essay you link to, it states "We can afford to take our time to improve articles, to wait before deleting a new article unless its potential significance cannot be established." To me this seems to make the opposite case that articles should not be deleted for poor sourcing when there is a prospect of near future improvement. Thanks -- Fæ ( talk) 19:41, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
      • You misunderstand what I was pointing out. The essay also states "creating an article without establishing the basis of the content and its significance is a bad idea." That it will become notable is covered under WP:CRYSTALBALL as invalid keep rationale. Future improvement possibility sounds like it might fall under WP:LOSE. None of the sources are reliable per WP:RS. The article fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSIC. The article is to be deleted or not on its merits as it stands, not how it may be in a few weeks. If there is something to be added now to improve it, that would be helpful toward keeping it. That it may be better in the future does not help overcome these issues in the mean time. -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 06:23, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect per WP:TOOSOON. The sources are not significant enough to hang an article on yet. The information will be there if a redirect is maintained — the redirect can be undone once more sourcing is available. Don't worry, Hammy Whammy won't harm your pwecious widdle article. Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 02:14, 10 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Redirect until (if) it meets WP:NSONGS, WP:GNG etc. This is meant to be an encyclopedia, not a promo site, a fansite, a listing for every song or single released... and certainly not a "my-favourite-artist-has more-articles-than-your-favourite-artist" site. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 10:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply

KEEP It will have charted by next Sunday and you will have to make a new page so may as well keep it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.187.93 ( talk) 17:32, 22 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was keep. Black Kite ( talk) 20:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

John Delaney (businessman)

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Founded a company and died on Mount Everest in 2011 are about all this article says, in 2 lines - not seeing this as a "notable" biography, in any regards. He's listed on List of people who died climbing Mount Everest, which probably seems enough, but doesn't appear to warrant his own article. Ma®©usBritish[ chat 01:50, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Delete He should be left on the list of people who died climbing Mount Everest and this small wikipedia article ought to be deleted as it doesn't establish his WP:GNG. That seems sufficient. This article can be kept only if Intrade is notable enough that its founder's wikipedia article here should also be kept. I'm not certain if this is the route to take, however. -- Artene50 ( talk) 02:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Keep. Any person who is important enough to get an unpaid obituary in The New York Times is a notable person. There is plenty of room for expansion of this article. Just because the article is currently a stub does not mean it is not notable and/or should be deleted. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:54, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Per WP:ROUTINE, obituaries are not notable - unfortunately, once you get past Mallory and Irvine, and a few exceptional notable disasters on Everest (1996), the Eiger's north face (1936), etc, being killed by HACE during an ambitious mountaineering expedition is fairly Run of the mill these days - much respect to the man for his attempt, this nomination is nothing against him personally, it simply boils down to the fact that he was not notable in life, did nothing major or unique, has not received massive independent coverage for anything, apart from his untimely death, to warrant even a stub. That's just the way it goes on Wiki, and yes, it's a tough call. Ma®©usBritish[ chat 07:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
This wouldn't fall under WP:Routine because The New York Times is highly selective on who it writes unpaid obituaries on. It doesn't print obituaries on non-notable people unless they are paid for, which this one was not. I hardly consider founding a notable online trading company not notable. Intrade is a notable organization, and therefore its creator/founder is notable. This Google Books search reveals more sources which further establish notability and are more sources which could be used to expand the article. The fact that CNBC used him as a commentator on online trade further lends to notability. 4meter4 ( talk) 17:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I disagree with inherent notability on that basis. Based on your argument, every employee of Microsoft and Google, or any company that has a page, should also be considered "notable". I'm sure the tea ladies in Microsoft cafeteria would be flattered, but the fact of the matter is that the details in this article, or lack of, could more easily be placed in it's own section on Intrade. He doesn't need his own 2-line page, which appears more patronising to his memory than notable, in my opinion. In the right context, on his founding company page, it would be more appropriate. Obituaries fall into WP:Routine per what it says, there is no mention of whether certain papers selected people is more notable or not, so you are wrong to claim it is. Also, taking a look at the latest obituaries I noticed a woman called Daphne Zepos. Her area of "notability" - she was an expert on... cheese. Yet she has no Wiki article. Surprised? One has to question that notability, especially from a tabloid, is speculative or biased. Being a CEO or a mountaineer has yet to given an auto-notable status, like Royalty, for example. Ma®©usBritish[ chat 23:14, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. First of all, the fact that the article is currently very short, is no reason for deletion. There's enough information available to expand it. Re his notability (the only criterion that should be used in this discussion), Delaney was the founder and CEO of a notable company [40] and was notable himself even before his death. See this article from 2004 in The Irish Independent and this 2005 article in Fortune Magazine.. He's been interviewed on CNBC [41]. He and his company are discussed in the book Oracles: How Prediction Markets Turn Employees Into Visionaries (Harvard Business Press). His death was covered not only by the New York Times, but by the Daily Mail in the UK and, of course the main Irish newspapers. Incidentally, the New York Times piece, "John Delaney, Founder of Intrade, Dies at 42", is not an example of WP:ROUTINE. It was a lengthy article with a by-line in the Business section, not the Obituary section. Voceditenore ( talk) 13:08, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
    • a) No one said that it was too short and should be deleted based on length. That would be an impractical nomination. What has been said is that this stub, a mere 2 lines, conveys nothing of notability per se, and if the man is supposedly notable, it has not been detailed. b) The article was created 6 days after he died on Everest, and in just over a year, despite all these claims to notability, it has not been advanced beyond three sentences, which strongly suggests that its creation was little more than a tribute, because the question has to be asked - if he is or was so notable, why was no article created pre-death? WP:NOTMEMORIAL comes straight to mind. I don't feel WP:BIO has been met. Per WP:ORGSIG: "An organization may be notable, but individual members (or groups of members) do not "inherit" notability due to their membership." Still recommend merging his short bio with the company he founded, and deleting the stub. Ma®©usBritish[ chat 15:06, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Good heavens there are literally thousands of notable people who still don't have articles, or whose artcles have remained stubs for years. I don't think that argues against their notability. In any case, Delaney wasn't a simple member of a notable organization, he was its founder and CEO. Compare to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Herman Rietzel (a 19 year old, virtually unknown pianist, who drowned in 1882 before his career had really begun). I !voted "delete" in that one, but this person has much more coverage and in my view has actually done something notable in addition to dying. Interestingly the pianist discussion was closed as "Keep". Voceditenore ( talk) 15:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
There is no "member scale" dividing founders/CEOs and employees, nor any official policy or classification, which makes that a moot point - Wiki isn't here to fight a class war and only give execs publicity. If the organisation became notable then it became notable through its own success, not his initial founding of it - making mention of him better suited to the company article. Shared notability, instead of this weak claim to inherent notability. Other AfDs have no bearing on the matter, they are treated independent of each other. Richard Branson wasn't notable when he founded Virgin, it's success made Virgin notable, and his success as a businessman made him notable - they are different 2 events and independent forms of notability. Also, the "Oracles" book you linked earlier on Google Books does not indicate notability - the author is discussing a topic and using Intrade as an example to support his arguments in the chapter - there is nothing there worthwhile that could be used and cited in this article that is of biographical interest. It would be pretty far-fetched to claim otherwise. Ma®©usBritish[ chat 16:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. Also probably merge Parbo Bier into this, but that might need more discussion.  Sandstein  14:36, 26 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Surinaamse Brouwerij

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Doesn't seem notable to me. Primary author fails to recognize that 1. it's not famous, 2. its logo is that of Parbo Bier. The author seems to be lazy and was relieved when I only PRODded it. He added two references and said that they made Parbo Bier. Unacceptable article and does not strike me as notable. Not even on the Dutch Wikipedia (Suriname is Dutch-speaking). J (t) 01:34, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Hi Jeff, thanks for your input. As I'm sure you are aware, the notability of an article does not necessarily depend on things like fame, importance, or popularity. And you're right, I did put the Parbo Bier logo as the lead image. Surinaamse Brouwerij makes Parbo Bier. It's kind of like how Samuel Adams Brewing Company redirects to Samuel Adams (beer) and there you see the Samuel Adams logo. I invite you to find a more appropriate image, though. You're right about me adding two references which cite the fact that the brewery makes Parbo Bier. I think they're pretty solid references, too. Thanks. As for your concerns that the subject of this article doesn't seem nor strike you as notable, please clarify. There are literally hundreds or articles listed under the Beer and breweries by region page that aren't tagged for deletion and a simple Google search points to Surinaamse Brouwerij as being the sole brewery in the entire country of Suriname. I'd love to know what more can be done to support this article of ours and save it from deletion. Could some other editors weigh in on this? I'll ignore the slight about me being lazy. Brian Adler ( talk) 02:22, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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Hello, Brian. This article is really slow in growing. If it's the sole brewery in Suriname, then why isn't the article being improved? Also, Suriname is Dutch-speaking, so it doesn't strike anyone what this brewery is. Samuel Adams did strike me, however. I'd like to see some improvement about the history, etc., or else I'm keeping this AfD stance firmly. -- J (t) 02:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep (and merge and redirect Parbo Bier to here). While I think both are notable topics, their histories are totally interwoven and it will be very hard to find reliably-sourced material that is really specific to just one or the other, so a merger may be indicated. Note that we also don't have a separate articles for Anchor Steam (the beer) next to Anchor Brewing Company, and likewise for the beers of most small breweries.  -- Lambiam 15:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
Good idea, Lambiam. I also think a merger of the two articles would be wise. Brian Adler ( talk) 00:29, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was } Keep - newly discovered sources establish notability, no counter argument presented. Wily D 08:33, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Culture for Pigeon

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Fails WP:NALBUMS. Found no coverage in Google search of news and books. Article, as it stands, is essentially a track list. And unsourced. Bbb23 ( talk) 00:53, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. Black Kite ( talk) 20:09, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

RetroShare

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spam with no real claim to notability, lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. Nothing satisfying wp:n. duffbeerforme ( talk) 05:34, 1 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Totally disagree. It's a project released under the GPL, I don't think it's spam. I use this software, and I came here hoping to find some critical analysis of it's security. Independent info exists ( like here) and I believe RetroShare was also recently featured in a Slashdot article. I feel that that alone makes it worth maintaining a page about. It's a project started recently, so I guess the limited coverage is to be expected. I found out about RetroShare while reading about Bittorent's implementation of the Kademlia DHT here on Wikipedia. The DHT library that it used was mentioned in the article, and is apparently part of the same project. Sorry for the IP signature, not a regular user. 50.37.124.20 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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I also totally disagree. This is not spam. I heard about this project months ago and came to Wikipedia to check on some background. I'm very surprised that this is article is even being considered for deletion. Right not searching for "Retroshare" in Google alone produces over 269,000 hits. It is a fairly new project, but there is a lot of interest in the project in the Linux community. 70.36.142.214 ( talk) 02:52, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Only number 1 looks like a good source. duffbeerforme ( talk) 07:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 01:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Maanvi Gagroo

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This subject fails WP:GNG for lack of multiple reliable sources giving significant coverage, namely on which to base encyclopedic biographical content. She also fails WP:ANYBIO (received a well-known and significant award or honor or made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record) and WP:NACTOR (significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions). Right now, it seems WP:TOOSOON to clearly establish notability. JFHJr ( ㊟) 07:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Weak keep: The subject has been mentioned in critical reviews ( 1) and acted in a film that was widely recognized. WP:NACTOR and WP:ANYBIO are merely additional criteria and not a sole indicator of notability as quoted: "Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included." Google News search indicate a few hits which do provide encyclopedic information that would be sufficient enough for a stub article. Secret of success ( talk) 16:30, 3 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment — You've misrepresented the standard: WP:GNG is the floor, the basic standard, and it is not met. Let's see a full quote from WP:NACTOR: "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards. Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included." Care to re-factor, without presenting only one half of an alternative criterion? JFHJr ( ㊟) 18:46, 3 July 2012 (UTC) reply
I believe that you are opposing my comment purely on the thought that the subject is not satisfying WP:GNG. That is not right. When he/she has received critical acclaim and acted in a notable film, what more do you need for satisfying the standard? Secret of success ( talk) 12:49, 4 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Delete - the usual WP:N - no independent sources means nothing to write an article from, appears to be a private individual. Wily D 08:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Julianne Wurm

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As far as I can see, the subject doesn't meet WP:AUTHOR or WP:ACADEMIC. John Vandenberg ( chat) 09:23, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

  • Comment Her book has been quoted/used in several other education books and articles, [55], [56]. Not sure if that's enough, frankly, but I'd suggest that anyone interested in keeping this article incorporate some of these references into it. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:36, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Delete She fails WP:BIO for lack of substantial (or basically any) coverage at Google News Archive, where I found only passing mentions and press releases. [59] There was no news coverage at all of her supposedly "bestselling" book, which also had minimal citations at Google Scholar. [60] -- MelanieN ( talk) 21:29, 15 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Delete She's written a niche book published by a small educational publisher, and it doesn't seem to have got any reviews outside of education-related blogs. It's possible that a trawl of non-free/not-online education-related sources may turn up more, but I'd expect to have found any big reviews in major scholarly journals if they existed. As for founding one of TED's seemingly-endless series of sub-ventures, I don't think that demonstrates notability, not least because TEDxEast isn't mentioned anywhere else on Wikipedia. -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 11:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails WP:BIO. No sign of notability. Just because she is the founder of TEDxEast, doesn't mean it needs to be kept. -- Rsrikanth05 ( talk) 08:02, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was delete.  Sandstein  06:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Walid Said Bin Said Zaid

AfDs for this article:
Walid Said Bin Said Zaid (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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On a living Guantanamo prisoner with no independent coverage at all. Fails WP:BLP1E, WP:GNG, WP:BIO. There are no secondary sources to claim notability of the subject and the citations used are primary sources ( WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 84#Reliability of US military summary reports). DBig Xray 11:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

I am also nominating the following related pages because these articles are on the same topic and have the same issues as mentioned above. The case of the subject are already mentioned in list Yemeni detainees at Guantanamo Bay (Note: I have already followed WP:BEFORE for these articles and I am nominating them after being fully convinced) :

Al Khadr Abdallah Muhammed Al Yafi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Muktar Yahya Najee Al Warafi (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hamound Abdullah Hamoud Hassan Al Wady (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Uthman Abdul Rahim Mohammed Uthman (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Ali Husayn Abdullah Al Tays (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Muhammaed Yasir Ahmed Taher (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The consensus on recent similar AfDs [61] [62] [63] [64] was Delete DBig Xray 11:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Do what now? The previous nomination for the flagship article was No Consensus. Anarchangel ( talk) 00:25, 13 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as to Walid Said Bin Said Zaid. The only sources that have been provided that actually mention the subject are primary sources and reprints of primary sources. Although the majority of the sources cited are dead links, most of them apparently pertain to the administrative review of the subject's detention, and such sources wouldn't demonstrate the subject's notability. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:47, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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*Delete full agreement with Nick-D. -- Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. As Metropolitan90 points out, that WP:GHITS analysis applies to the detention camp, not the individual detainees. One does not become notable because one is detained in a notable prison. By that logic, every victim of Auchwitz would be notable - which is not the case. Each detainee must be evaulated based on their own, individual notability; while primary sources are allowed, they can not be used to establish notability. There is no extensive coverage of individual detainees, except in very rare cases which is not the case here. WP:PRIMARY, WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BLP1E. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:44, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - As with most every other Gitmo detainee, a lengthy, overly-wordy article is propped up almost purely by primary sources. Anarchangel's call for an exception to notability guidelines for a political prisoner is without merit. Even if reliable sources picked up on this person's situation, it'd still be squarely in WP:BLP1E territory. Fail now, or fail down the road. Tarc ( talk) 12:39, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - sourcing is not, per se, the problem here. Primary sources are reliable and valid. The problem is POV; it reads like a press release. Bearian ( talk) 20:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete all; subjects do not appear to be independently notable in and of themselves and therefore do not appear to pass WP:BIO, additionally none appear to pass WP:SOLDIER.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 17:05, 19 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete all - per nomination. The subjects of these articles are not notable under WP:GNG because they lack "signficant coverage" in reliable sources. Therefore they do no warrant individual articles of their own. The meagre information available on these subjects is already included in broader articles on the topic. Anotherclown ( talk) 05:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was keep. The Bushranger One ping only 01:20, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Journey to Promethea (2010 TV Film)

Journey to Promethea (2010 TV Film) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Fails WP:NF. I found one review by a non-notable critic (Film Pilgrim). Rotten Tomatoes shows zero reviews by critics. Bbb23 ( talk) 14:27, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Neutral I'm of two minds here. The article is 1-2 days old and we shouldn't bite newbies. Secondly, its not a hoax since it has an IMDB reference. So, it passes WP:V But it doesn't seem to be a succesful or WP:N film judging from its IMDB rating. So, the person deciding this discussion will have to decide whether notability is more important than verifiability here. I'm glad I won't have this task. -- Artene50 ( talk) 04:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply


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  • Comment: At 15 unsourced words, the original stub [65] seemed destined to be brought to AFD. While I was able to expand it and make it a much better looking 671 word article [66] (hope its author watched and understood the step-by-step process), [67] this was done through use of websites which have not yet having gone through the processes for determining their suitability for such genre topics. If non-English sources treat it better than did English ones, we may yet turn this sows ear into a silk purse. Note: If kept, the article will need to be moved to Journey to Promethea, as we do not need a diambig for this title. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 22:49, 9 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. The three review websites (Sci-fi online, Film Pilgrim & Movie Scribes) look like reliable sources. The reviews establish notability and verifiability. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:55, 14 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Withdrawn by nominator. Nouniquenames ( talk) 05:49, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Brooklyn Camorra

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Typical case of violation of WP:NOR. There were Camorra groups in Brooklyn but there never was a Brooklyn Camorra as an organisation. Sources are quoted wrongly or are unreliable. - DonCalo ( talk) 09:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Different Camorra gangs existed and they are sometimes refered to as "Brooklyn Camorra" groups, as is discussed in The Origin of Organized Crime in America: The New York City Mafia, 1891-1931. However, it is problematic -- and this is where it is violating WP:NOR -- to simplify this to Brooklyn Camorra implying there was a unified Camorra group. The New York based Camorra had two bases: the Neapolitan Navy Street gang and the Neapolitan Coney Island gang, as is discussed here (the site Gangrule basically the same source as the book quoted above; one of the more reliable sources on the issue). - DonCalo ( talk) 11:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Article has been adapted to address concerns raised here and has been moved to Camorra in New York. Request for deletion withdrawn. - DonCalo ( talk) 11:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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Like I said before the relisting the reasons given in the deletion nomination are addressed by editing, and the nomination is withdrawn by the nominator. - DonCalo ( talk) 20:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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The result was no consensus. T. Canens ( talk) 16:23, 26 July 2012 (UTC) reply

UFC 9

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This event fails WP:NOT, WP:EVENT, WP:SPORTSEVENT, and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER as there is no indication that the event has any enduring notability and lasting significance. Portillo ( talk) 09:23, 31 May 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Keep Notability is forever, something can't loose it and the UFC has it Seasider91 ( talk) 19:39, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete  The only reference in the article has only one sentence about the event, and the one sentence appears to say that the event took place in Colorado; while other sources say the event took place in Michigan.  With no inline citations, this can be deleted as a WP:V failure.  Also fails WP:NOT as WP:NOTNEWSPAPER, and as a pay-per-view promotion.  Unscintillating ( talk) 06:18, 14 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  • Why has this being relisted? The UFC is a yearly event that is well known even outside of the MMA world. This event determines who is the best in the world, this nomination screams of WP:POINT also as this event took place in the 90's don't you think it would be hard to find internet sources? Things like this need non internet sources, hopefully common sense prevails in this case Seasider91 ( talk) 19:32, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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The result was Delete. Regardless of the comments here, most of the article is a copyvio from allmovie and has been for most of its history. (i.e. this page). There may well be an article to be written on the subject, but you can't use any of this.

I recreated the title as a useful redirect to Comedy film, where it is mentioned - only to find that paragraph was a copyvio as well :-/ I have rewritten it. Black Kite ( talk) 20:18, 24 July 2012 (UTC) reply

Anarchic comedy film

Anarchic comedy film (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD • Stats)
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Contested prod. This article has been tagged as unreferenced for more than 5 years, and tagged for OR for more than 4-and-a-half years. What we have here is a lot of opinion, speculation, and original research for a so-called film genre that is not recognized by any established film sources. With no agreed upon definition, and no sources, editors are free to add whatever they like to the article, which they have been doing for more than long enough. RepublicanJacobite TheFortyFive 23:45, 8 July 2012 (UTC) reply

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  • Possibly redirect or merge to Slapstick film, which isn't an exact match but covers a significant amount of the same content. Having an article on "anarchic comedy" may be defensible, as that term is more widely used, but I can't see evidence for the notability of this narrower topic (which includes film humor I'd describe as slapstick, visual gags, and caper comedy). If this was sourced I'd confidently suggest saving the content, maybe moving to anarchic comedy. If someone wants to improve it, it could still be saved (I suspect that if you moved it without improving, someone would AfD it sooner or later). -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 11:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC) reply
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  1. ^ http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/science_tech/twitter-plays-outsize-role-in-2012-campaign-wcpo1336415661507
  2. ^ Inclusion in "best of", "top 100", and similar lists generally does not count towards notability, unless the list itself is so notable that each entry can be presumed notable. Examples of the latter include the Fortune 500 or a Michelin Guide to restaurants.
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