| No action taken. Parishan is reminded that edit warring with anonymous editors is still subject to revert limitations, and to report editors editing in the AA area (including anonymous ones) who are behaving poorly here rather than edit warring with them. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:24, 1 September 2013 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Parishan
As of late User:Parishan restarted edit wars on several pages, esp. on Kachaghakaberd and St. Thaddeus Monastery, where he adds odd names to Armenian monuments and characterizes these names as "Azerbaijani," without citing any references or bothering to explain his actions on talk pages despite invitations from other users to do so [3], [4]. Parishan's edits came under sanctions several times in previous years, and he was warned lately by a long-time WP editor MarshallBagramyan.
Discussion concerning ParishanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ParishanI did provide a source ( archived version) when the Azeri spelling for St. Thaddeus Monastery was first added. The anonymous user that was removing it was on an POV spree and got banned repeatedly for disruptive editing: [6], [7], and reverting that account was not against the rules. Parishan ( talk) 23:27, 25 August 2013 (UTC) Reply to ParishanParishan's statement [8] is deliberately misleading. The source for the "Azerbaijani" name of the Armenian St. Thaddeus Monastery is a long-defunct and questionable website, which never mentioned that the phrase "Ghareh Kilisa" was an Azerbaijani phrase. Please note that it is Parishan's own POV and WP:OR opinion. And anonymous websites like are not authoritative sources anyway, even if it/they ever mentioned that the phrase "Ghareh Kilisa" were in fact Azerbaijani. As long as I know, the phrase is actually Persian, not Azerbaijani or Turkic. It was Parishan who asserted such a POV in the first place, and IPs, no matter how misbehaving they might have been on other pages, were trying to correct Parishan's disruptive entries, and they were explaining what they were doing in contrast to Parishan's actions, who kept mechanically reverting IPs while providing no explanations in summary or on talk pages. Please note that the lame reference to the website that Parishan supposedly provided was inserted as many as 5(!) years ago, and throughout all these five years Parishan never bothered to re-insert that reference or find a new, more credible one. This shows how disruptive Parishan's actions are, and how determined he remains to disregard WP:NPOV and defy AA2. Zimmarod ( talk) 23:46, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Statement by GrandmasterThis is a frivolous report. Reverting vandalism is exempt from 3RR and editing restrictions. Some diffs are from more than a year ago and are stale. And in the rest of diffs Parishan reverted vandalism by the banned user. I personally reported the IPs that edit warred across multiple articles both at WP:AIV: [9] and at talk of the enforcing admin: [10], after which the disruptive IP range was blocked. Block logs of the edit warring IPs speak for themselves: [11] [12] [13] Someone used multiple IPs to edit war across a number of pages. In addition, after the previous frivolous report on me Zimmarod was warned by consensus of admins at this board "not to misuse Wikipedia as a battleground, and more particularly, not to accuse others of severe misconduct (such as vandalism or harrassment) unless such accusations are made (a) in the appropriate dispute resolution or enforcement forum, and (b) with adequate evidence to support these accusations". [14] This warning was placed at his talk as well: [15] As we can see from the above, Zimmarod disregarded this warning by filing a baseless report about another editor at WP:AE. Grand master 22:10, 24 August 2013 (UTC) Reply to Grandmaster
A note for Bbb23Bbb23, thank you for your note. I noticed that you never arbitrated on Armenian-Azerbaijan issues, and thus may not be fully aware of the implied strictness of arbitration environment in that area. I encourage you to take a look at how other users were sanctioned for alleged misdeeds that were far less severe than Parishan's bold disregard of WP:NPOV. Zimmarod ( talk) 23:50, 26 August 2013 (UTC) Result concerning ParishanThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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| Littleolive oil is topic banned for six months from the subject of transcendental meditation, broadly construed. IRWolfie is indefinitely banned from speculating in any way upon the real-life identity of any editor in the transcendental meditation area, broadly construed, except that concerns about such may be communicated privately to the Arbitration Committee. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC) | ||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Littleolive oil
Moved from Arbitration request to enforcement This request for arbitration enforcement centers around the six threaded posts on the page where I have been subject to many accusations and emotive commentary from the very start by Olive, where Olive has also been engaged in POV pushing. I made this edit reverting a bold change to the article [17]. I posted this on the talk page explaining my reasoning: [18]. This was responded with: [19]
Later: [20]
An example of POV pushing is the defence of an award viewed negatively by the independent reliable sources by proposing that we use the awards own website to offset any negative commentary about the award and framing it as though we are POV for not including positive primary sourced material [21]. All contrary arguments were ignored ( WP:IDHT): [22] [23], (both 2 Sept 2013) response by MastCell: [24] (3 Sept 2013) which accords with standard policy, but was ignored in subsequent discussion: [25] [26] (both 3 Sept 2013) Note that Littleolive oil has also been demanding that I get consensus before making any edits: [27] [28] (both 17 Aug 2013), despite there being no onus for me to do so in policy for standard cleanup or other edits trying to fix an article. i.e We have WP:BRD on wikipedia. I highlighted as such [29] (16 Aug 2013) at the time and also indicated that the text removed was sourced to primary sources and not a particularly large [30] (16 Aug 2013). Some other individual comments showing large amounts of rhetoric which make collaboration very difficult, including
IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:06, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
Olive has already been blocked under the discretionary sanctions and thus is aware of them: [34]. Olive has been asked to stop directing the assumptions of bad faith at me by myself and another: [35] [36].
Context: In John Hagelin, the article was edited and achieved GA through the editing of, amongst others, Little olive. This article at the time of its promotion was skewed, see [37] and thus was delisted as having been inadequately reviewed (see Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/John_Hagelin/1 for more details). Since that time I have been trying to bring the article up to the WP:FRINGE standards as well as WP:RS, WP:OR etc, as I have with other articles such as the Maharishi Effect and Maharishi_Vedic_Approach_to_Health. IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:06, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade please note [49] where Olive, at the Arbitration request thread, has misrepresented what you have said: " I am also being sanctioned apparently because I said something about content. ", IRWolfie- ( talk) 13:19, 6 September 2013 (UTC) @ Seraphimblade or other admins. Perhaps it is time to enact the proposals since what needs to be said has been said? IRWolfie- ( talk) 08:41, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Littleolive oilStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Littleolive oilMoved from RfArbitration:
Thank you for specifying your concerns (in bold). I’d like to address them:
My comment on this page was a reminder that issues here deal with AE and the arbitration principle that can invite a discretionary sanction. Some comments appeared to be more suited to a content policy notice board. AE does not deal with content, so I assumed I should not discuss content policies here. My comment here in no way excludes my position on content policies discussed in multiple places in an appropriate forum as a reading of the threads on the John Hagelin article demonstrates:
History: The John Hagelin article was written with Input from multiple editors. I applied for GA status. I and another editor spent weeks working in the article especially on sources to comply with the reviewer concerns. [51] The reviewer gave the Article GA status IRWolfie saw what he considered ”fringe” concerns.He goes to a NB. My comment there: 'I'm happy to have more input on the article, and /or a GAR and suggest this discussion be moved to the article talk page. I will add a notice to the article talk page notifying editors of this posting on the Fringe Theories NB. Thanks (olive (talk) 01:38, 31 March 2013 (UTC)) The article is brought to GAReview: My comment: ...I welcome a uninvolved editor review of the article and I am happy to help implement changes to improve the article.(olive (talk) 22:37, 5 April 2013 (UTC)) The article is delisted Where in this sequence of events is there AE sanctionable behavior.
In each discussion on the Hagelin page, I discussed my points often citing policy as I see making between 3-5 points, then withdraw when progress was not being made or there was an impasse, noting concerns. For example: I will withdraw from this discussion now, given this discussion is not progressing. I note the misuse and or misunderstanding of policy in the thread above and in a BLP. I hope you'll stay. I am sorry an uninvolved editor who spent the time you did on this article was reverted unilaterally. I have little more to say on this article at this time since no progress is being made. This was a GA article which I spent a lot of time working on in compliance with the reviewer. I doubt that it is at that standard now. I would be happy to have an uninvolved editor try to make something of this article. (olive (talk) 18:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC)) How is this tendentious behavior?
I have no idea what this means and no idea what this refers to this article. This article is a BLP. It in part chronicles a scientist who takes a turn from more main stream science to a more edge of science position. The article must describe both aspects of his career. I did in fact suggest that Wolfie’s mass deletion here weighted the article away from Hagelin’s controversial work towards his more mainstream work. Thanks( olive ( talk) 21:38, 5 September 2013 (UTC)) Comments from an uninvolved(editor)
I've gotta say, on the merits, I think the attempt to link consciousness with physical cosmology seems more than a little nutty. But that's mostly an argument that ought to be settled in the other articles in the TM suite. This here's a BLP. It ought to lay out Hagelin's life and views, without giving undue weight to his critics. They belong here, but not in the same way that they belong on pages like The Maharishi Effect, Transcendental Meditation technique and the like. I fear our project's not-entirely-unreasonable fear of FRINGiness, and of what User:JzGuy has correctly identified in the past as the problem of "polite POV-pushers", is playing out badly in the context of this BLP. The place for full-throated criticism of Hagelin's theories is on pages devoted to those theories. It's not like there aren't enough TM-themed articles on wikipedia for that. Call the theories wacky there. Tread carefully when you're getting close to calling the living theorist wacky here. [52] In my view, the proper balance between WP:FRINGE and WP:BLP is misapprehended here. Frighteningly so. [53] ( olive ( talk) 03:49, 6 September 2013 (UTC))
A sanction against me here would be wrong and unfair. There is no evidence that shows I have violated an arbitration principle, a policy, or a guideline. Nor is there any evidence of tendentious editing. I want to apologize for not adding diffs about Wolfie's behaviour. I had a very serious real life issue to deal with, and don't feel I can do more here. Anyway,attacking Wolfie would only turn this page into a toxic mess or more so than it is now and frankly there are enough toxic situations on Wikipedia. The John Hagelin talk page contains the evidence in this case, and a careful reading from a neutral position and especially noting the analysis added by an experienced editor in the final thread, an editor with no agenda, tells the story. I don't see that anything I can say about Wolfie can be helpful here. If there are concerns about him as I have had, across Wikipedia, they will show up in time, and if there are, and if he's smart he will fix them before that happens. Best Wishes.( olive ( talk) 05:33, 6 September 2013 (UTC)) Seraphim. I added content from an editor on the JH talk page which everyone should have read. I say correctly he is an editor in the second line. Its late. I just spent an hour talking to a mother whose child committed suicide. It was a simple mistake, a part of the circumstances I'm in, in RL. What are you suggesting? That I would lie about something that could be checked in a second? I noted in a comment here at the top of the page,"Some comments appeared to be more suited to a content policy notice board. AE does not deal with content, so I assumed I should not discuss content policies here. My comment here in no way excludes my position on content policies discussed in multiple places in an appropriate forum as a reading of the threads on the John Hagelin article demonstrates: that this was not a content discussion and even if an editor did start talking about content... you don't sanction them for six months. What are you talking about here?( olive ( talk) 05:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC)) Wolfie: ..."it is not the place of AE to adjudicate the content dispute. None of us here are deciding who's right, and none of my comments are intended to indicate that either editor's view of the proper content is correct, nor are they an endorsement thereof. We address only conduct. (Comment from below by Seraphimblade)( olive ( talk) 13:55, 6 September 2013 (UTC))
Seraphim Blade: I hope that you will clearly state what I have done that is sanctionable. You have never responded to my points and you are using a simple copy edit error, a massive assumption of bad faith, to support your position. Further you have ignored the cmts of an uninvolved admin and a regular on this NB, and three other ediotrs who do not support sanctions. ( olive ( talk) 20:02, 10 September 2013 (UTC)) Doc James: Most of your diffs are from over three years ago. On the other hand, as recently as March you used edit warring to remove research reviews that appeared in top journals. Those reviews include the following which I have been aware of for some time and which have been collected un an other editor's talk page sandbox. I will notify him that I would be using this information:
(This is a standard textbook.)
("With an impact factor of 4.19, this journal ranks 24th of 129 psychiatry journals and 10th of 74 psychology journals." [54])
(Published by Oxford University Press)
("ISI Impact Factor: 14.457; Psychology - Multidisciplinary: 2 of 125 [55])
("ISI Impact Factor: 6.869; Psychology - Multidisciplinary: 4 of 125" [56]
( olive ( talk) 20:02, 10 September 2013 (UTC)) Statement by Keithbob(Disclaimer: Over the past 14 months there have been 500 edits to the John Hagelin article and I made 10 of those edits -only 3 edits in 2013) IRWolfie's repeated removal of sourced contentSummary IRWolfie's editing on the TM topic has been disruptive and he has been harassing User:Littleolive oil for several months. This filing and the one yesterday at ArbCom are the most recent examples of this.
In the remedies section the TM Arb Com it is made clear that all principles are sanction-able:
IRWolfie's harassment of Littleolive oil
Wolfie has been harassing Littleolive oil (Olive) for several months. Since Olive attained GA status for the John Hagelin article, Wolfie has:
@Sandstein - I have, on multiple occasions, invited and welcomed editors to the TM articles and other editors have done the same, after all WP is about collaboration. However, IRWolfie has deleted thousands of words and scores of sources, often in a single day, without communicating with anyone on the talk page, before or after the fact. I'm not suggesting that every one of his deletions was inappropriate only that his/her methods are unilateral, non-collaborative and disruptive. ArbCom has indicated that the repeated peremptory deletion of sourced content, on this contentious series of articles, is confrontational editing. The unilateral removal of sources such as a journal published by the AMA or a journal on the Brandon/Hill list (which is recommended by WP:MEDRS) is wrong and Wolfie has refused to cease and desist despite numerous warnings and talk page objections corresponding to his individual edits. [93] To me that's not acceptable and violates the spirit and the letter of the discretionary sanctions I've cited and quoted above. Statement by David in DCI came to this page only to try to clean it up stylistically, and to try to apply common WP:BLP principles to it. I ran into a realtime edit conflict with olive and stopped editing. I woke up the next morning to a pleasant surprise, given the hubbub on the talk page. A greeting on my talk page from olive urging me to continue editing, welcoming me, and making clear that the edit conflict was a genuine case of two people stumbling into one another and nothing more. I hope the admins reviewing this matter will make some judgements about the tenor of the conversation on the talk page amongst olive, Mast and Wolfie. In my opinion there's way too much rancor there. And the parties' contributions to the escalation of the incivility do not seem evenly split. Not by a long shot. My interactions with olive have been uniformly civil. I've not interacted with Mast at all on any of this, but have found Mast to be extraordinarily skilled at disagreeing without being disagreeable in the past. I've read posts by Wolfie before, but never interacted with Wolfie until now. I think these diffs tell the remainder of the story: A) Posted by me after the first time Wolfie reverted me:
[94] and
[95] Reply to Sandstein: I see no behavior by olive warranting administrative action. In my view, the only action Wolfie's complaint merits is summary dismissal. However, if an admin were inclined to take action against olive, based on Wolfie's request, that admin would be required to take Wolfie's own editorial behavior into account. My statement is intended as prophylaxis, should an admin head down the path you've just foresworn. David in DC ( talk) 21:58, 4 September 2013 (UTC) Concur with stick-dropping suggestion. David in DC ( talk) 15:54, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by (uninvolved) MontanabwI have never touched any of the articles at issue here, but I have had numerous interactions with both Olive and Wolfie in other contexts. I have only had positive interactions with Olive and find her to be a thoughtful and conscientious editor. Wolfie, on the other hand, has given me nothing but grief. He is disruptive and contentious in his editing pattern nearly everywhere he goes and I dread seeing him appear on any article that I care about editing, for he is certain to trash it with unreasonable demands and his own very odd interpretation of WP guidelines. Therefore, I concur completely with the following statement by Davd in DC: "I see no behavior by olive warranting administrative action. In my view, the only action Wolfie's complaint merits is summary dismissal. However, if an admin were inclined to take action against olive, based on Wolfie's request, that admin would be required to take Wolfie's own editorial behavior into account." I will not provide diffs at this time, but if any admin thinks Olive has done anything wrong beyond responding to some of Wolfie's usual WP:BAIT behavior, I will be glad to produce them later. Montanabw (talk) 01:12, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Comment by A Quest For KnowledgeI agree with the AE admins that simply being sourced, does not necessarily mean that content belongs in an article. Individual policies such as verifiability should not be considered in isolation. Other policies such as WP:NPOV, WP:COPYRIGHT, WP:BLP, etc. must also be considered. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 02:21, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Comment by MathsciKeithbob's assertions, even with carefully dated diffs, that IRWolfie's edits constitute harassment of Littleolive oil do not seem credible. From her editing history, Littleolive oil has in the past advocated aspects of transcendental meditation that fall outside mainstream science (yogic flying in January 2010). That kind of advocacy might prevent her from making edits to John Hagelin that are neutral. As far as conduct is concerned, the criticisms of IRWolfie by Littleolive oil (and Keithbob) seem to be unsubstantiated personal attacks. Leaving aside the continual insistence on using sources which might not conform to usual wikipedia standards, the casting of aspersions about perceived opponents creates a chilling editing environment which more often that not might drive editors away from an article. Mathsci ( talk) 04:55, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Comment by PumpkinSky
Comments by Jmh649 (Doc James)I have significant concerns with Olive's editing and civility. She has worked hard to present TM in a positive lights beyond that of reliable sources. Before I took a look at the medical aspects of this topic area (as a request for further eyes was posted at WT:MED) both Olive and TimidGuy were attempting to remove the best available research on the subject (a systematic review and meta analysis by the AHRQ). And due to the lack of involvement by independent editors they had some success. Feb 13, 2009 Olive removed AHRQ [102] Feb 13, 2009 Olive removed AHRQ again [103] Aug 7, 2010 Olive attempted to water down conclusions of independent reviews (Cochrane) [104] Aug 9 Revert [105] Nov 23 Attempting to question conclusions [106] Jan 14 2011 Revert away from consensus version [107] With respect to civility issues I request that she no longer post on my talk page here, here, and here. I beleive that we should be reflecting the positions of independent secondary sources which a number of those who are very close to the suggest area disagree with. She continued posting despite my expressed wishes [108], [109]. I do not really care if this group of editors wishes to continue to attack me but simply do not appreciate them doing so on my talk page. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:25, 10 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Littleolive oilThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This request does not include evidence in the form of dated diffs. Please provide those and explain how they violate any Wikipedia conduct rule. That is not apparent, at least not to me, from this request. Thanks, Sandstein 15:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
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| User:Benobikenobi has been warned under WP:TROUBLES but due to his indef block there isn't much else that needs doing here. EdJohnston ( talk) 16:32, 12 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning User:Benobikenobi
Serious editwarring at Gerry Adams
User_talk:Benobikenobi#11th_September_2013 Discussion concerning User:BenobikenobiStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by User:BenobikenobiStatement by (SonofSetanta)@ Floquenbeam. May I suggest you let this one play out until we see what can be done to save the editor - or if he can't be saved? SonofSetanta ( talk) 17:14, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Murry1975@EdJohnston, will he be added to the Troubles sanction list (or whatever its called)? Murry1975 ( talk) 20:12, 11 September 2013 (UTC) @Floq, thats why I was asking, for clarity. Murry1975 ( talk) 20:36, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning User:BenobikenobiThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This user was reported at ANI, and unaware that there was an AE request up, I just blocked him indef for edit warring immediately after a previous EW block expired, and for promising to continue no matter what. Not sure how these things are closed, so I'll be lazy and leave it to someone with more AE clue than me. -- Floquenbeam ( talk) 17:01, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
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(This is a repeat of an earlier notice. This notice is posted here, on the actual AE board, because the talk page is a redirect.) Since March 2013, various individual members of the Arbitration Committee have been reviewing the existing Discretionary sanctions process, with a view to (i) simplifying its operation and (ii) updating its procedures to reflect various clarification and amendment requests. An updated draft of the procedure is available for scrutiny and discussion here. AGK [•] 16:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
| Plot Spoiler is topic-banned from WP:ARBPIA topics for three months. Sepsis II is warned to avoid the appearance of tendentious editing. Sandstein 07:45, 15 September 2013 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Plot Spoiler
There are countless more edits like these, where he is deleting well sourced information, coming from PS. It is also interesting to note that the majority of his deletions is of information that could readily be classified as anti-Israeli or pro-Arab. The only time I found where PS simply left the information, added a fact tag, and deleted the source, was with this edit - [110], probably because the sourced material was a criticism of Palestinians. PS seems to have a different standard depending on whether the information is infavour or against Israel/Palestine. He will fight to keep what another editor called a "Self published press release from an advocacy group" - [111], when the group is pro-Israeli, yet he will fight for deletion when a pro-Israeli organization is being criticized - [112]. I think it is clear this editor is causing great harm to wikipedia and has a clearly pro-Israel bend to his edits.
Discussion concerning Plot SpoilerStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Plot SpoilerFirst, the personal attacks and failure to assume good faith from Sepsis are inappropriate. Secondly, I have just been deleting material that clearly fails WP:RS, such as http://electronicintifada.net and http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/. Sepsis is misrepresenting his case that I deleted Jonathan Cook, Amnesty International, or Reporters Without Borders. In all those cases, it was sourced to the Electronic Intifada, which clearly fails WP:RS. Ultimately, these issues should be dealt with on the relevant talk page or WP:RSN. WP:AE should not be flippantly abused to intimidate editors and canvass others of similar outlook, which happens far too often. If in some way I have erred, please correct me, but http://electronicintifada.net is simply not an RS and has no place being used as a source for factual assertions on Wikipedia. Let's not turn this AE into the normal battleground sideshow. Thanks. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 16:39, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Statement by RolandRThe problem here is not just one article, but Plot Spoiler's claim, repeated above, that Electronic Intifada "is simply not an RS and has no place being used as a source for factual assertions on Wikipedia". This is certainly not what has been decided in several discussions on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard; rather, it has been found repeatedly that justification for each specific use depends on the context in which it is cited. Plot Spoiler, however, seems to be on a one-person mission to remove all references to EI (and to Mondoweiss), whether used accurately or inaccurately, to verify factual assertions or to give an example of an opinion, or even as evidence that a particular article was indeed written. This is unacceptably tendentious editing, particularly when combined with the addition by PS of material sourced to CAMERA. I'm not sure what an appropriate sanction might be; but, at the very least, Plot Spoiler should not be permitted to remove sources, citations and references without explaining his/her reason clearly in the associated talk page. A blanket, unsupported, assertion in an edit summary that these sources "fail RS" is simply not sufficient. RolandR ( talk) 12:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by AgadaUrbanit@ Sandstein and EdJohnston: Maybe Diff from 7 September 2013 might be relevant to this enforcement request? Specifically concerns of WP:WIKIHOUNDING. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 23:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Sisoo vesimhu@Ed Johnston: , if "Applying different criteria to sources from different sides of the conflict could certainly qualify as tendentious editing." - how should we treat the following sequence of edits from the editor filing this complaint:
then,
I think you are being gamed here, by someone who does not come to the board with clean hands. Sisoo vesimhu ( talk) 16:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Plot SpoilerThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. My understanding of the relevant policies is the following: Advocacy organizations such as Electronic Intifada are not normally reliable sources. However, per WP:SELFSOURCE, they can be used to reference statements about themselves, such as opinions expressed by them. There may be valid editorial reasons to remove such statements from an article, such as neutrality or WP:QUOTEFARM, but WP:RS is not not normally a valid reason for such removals, unless one of the caveats of WP:SELFSOURCE is invoked (e.g., unduly self-serving or exceptional claims).On that basis, Plot Spoiler's invocation of WP:RS as grounds for the removal of the self-sourced material at issue appears to be based on an erroneous interpretation of WP:RS. That, in and of itself, would be a matter of content and not grounds for sanctions. But as pointed out by Dlv999 and others, Plot Spoiler has on at least one occasion added material self-sourced to a pro-Israeli advocacy organization to an article ( [125]), whereas all the self-sourced material Plot Spoiler removed in the instances reported here pertained to pro-Palestinian advocacy organizations. This gives the appearance of tendentious editing, which violates WP:NPOV in its aspect as a conduct policy. I invite other administrators to comment on whether this suffices as a basis for sanctions such as a topic ban. Sandstein 14:44, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SightWatcher
SightWatcher was given an extended topic ban following his editing on behalf of Captain Occam.
After his extended topic ban was imposed in May 2012, SightWatcher has received multiple warnings from arbitrators.
Recent background In 2013, before September, SightWatcher made only 2 edits to wikipedia. On 29 August an ANI thread was opened about Wer900. I added comments about Wer900's conduct in May 2013. [132] [133] [134] (Wer900 had agreed to act as a proxy-editor for Captain Occam starting an RfAr on his behalf about my "ownership of Poland-related articles".) Captain Occam drew attention to the thread on wikipediocracy and kept up a running commentary, including claims that arbitrators had given permission for the RfAr. After emails with arbitrators, it appears no such decision was made by arbcom. Wer900 has in the meantime reiterated his intention to name me as a party in a future arbcom case but without giving any policy-based reason. [135] My understanding is that arbitrators have no interest in seeing any evidence provided by Captain Occam. SightWatcher's edit SightWatcher's name appeared on ANI in a list of editors associated with Captain Occam, without reference to his editing or conduct. The thread started on 29 August. Captain Occam started his running commmentary on wikipediocracy on August 29. On 2 September SightWatcher made a small number of content edits to wikipedia. Before that he had made 5 content edits in 2012 and 2 in 2013. [136] All other edits relate to WP:ARBR&I. In the edit on WP:ANI on 6 September 2013, SightWatcher wrote:
SightWatcher has been inactive on the project in 2012-2013. He reappeared on wikipedia only after Captain Occam started commenting on wikipediocracy on 29 August. Given the acknowledged pattern of proxy-editing surrounding Captain Occam, it is hard to explain SightWatcher's reappearance out-of-the-blue as a coincidence. (So far Wer900 has been the only person to have given a clear account of how Captain Occam solicits users to edit on his behalf.) Prior to his edit on ANI, SightWatcher's editing or conduct had not been discussed in any way at all: his username merely appeared in a list of editors that have been associated with Captain Occam. His own association was made explicit by arbitrators in the 2012 R&I review based on evidence provided by Ferahgo the Assassin. SightWatcher's heated comments above are indistinguishable from off-wiki commentary on the same issues by Captain Occam. SightWatcher's edit violates his extended topic ban. It also appears to be yet another edit made in collaboration with Captain Occam/Ferahgo the Assassin.
PROXY-EDITING. Newyorkbrad has made a long and very insightful statement in the request for clarification. This request concerning SightWatcher concerns his extended topic ban which involves (a) not discussing topics, issues or users related to WP:ARBR&I unless his own conduct has been mentioned and (b) discontinuing from acting as a proxy-editor for banned users. (It is quite distinct from the one-way interaction bans covered by the "instructions" of Timotheus Cannes/Future Perfect at Sunrise. As TC explained below, he formulated those instructions specifically for Cla68 and The Devil's Advocate after trolling by the community banned user Echigo mole/AK.Nole.) Roger Davies referred to this type of proxy-editor as a "DeviantArt recruitee" in the R&I review. [144] Trevelyanl85A2 and SightWatcher were both sanctioned as DeviantArt recruitees. SightWatcher was reported here because in my view his edit violated points (a) and (b). Having read what Newyorkbrad, Johnuniq, Sandstein have written subsequently and what Future Perfect at Sunrise, Timotheus Canens, Roger Davies, Risker and other arbitrators have written in the past, I recognize that the best and probably only way of dealing with this type of editing is in private directly with the arbitration committee. "DeviantArt recruitees" present special problems. Accounts of that kind have included Zeromus1, Akuri and Mors Martell. I therefore request administrators here (or arbitrators) to make a new ruling, which could be logged at WP:ARBR&I, of the following kind (or some variant, possibly mentioning penalties for non-compliance):
I hope this is a helpful reponse to comments here and at WP:ARCA. There are other types of proxy editing, also related to Captain Occam, for example [145] & [146] and [147] & [148], but that is a much greyer area. SightWatcher's other edits Given his latest edits here and on WP:ARCA, SightWatcher does seem to be continuing to edit on behalf of Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin, as I stated when opening this request. All these edits appear to have been calculated; but the DeviantArt group has made errors. Here, repeating the disruption in his amendment request on 5 December 2012, SightWatcher is again making a request on behalf of othere, including TrevelyanL85A2, an indefinitely blocked account. SW was already warned by arbitrators then that he was not permitted to make requests on behalf of others. Similarly SightWatcher made no comments during the R&I review, despite being invited to comment by arbcom clerks. The DeviantArt group now characterize the review as a personal attack by me and that my references to my efforts in providing on-wiki evidence about proxy-editing was "gloating". My suspicions when I first made this enforcement request have been borne out by these subsequent edits, which both cross a line. Both read like DeviantArt group attempts to "write Mathsci out of the equation". SightWatcher's edits in project space—in particular the Alice-in-Wonderland request about an IBAN with TrevelyanL85A2 for a second time and the gross mischaracterisation of the R&I review—have now become more disruptive than those of TrevelyanL85A2. I am discussing this in private with arbitrators. I don't actually see how it can be discussed here. I assume that administrators here will take into account these further postings of SightWatcher. AE is not the place for back door attempts by Occam & Ferahgo or their DeviantArt recruitees to get failed arbcom motions passed; nor is WP:ARCA a place to reopen or moan about the R&I review.
Discussion concerning SightWatcherStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SightWatcherThe best solution seems like it would be making all of the interaction bans mutual, as Only in death suggested below. There are four editors under one-way interaction bans with Mathsci: me, TrevelyanL85A2, The Devil's Advocate, and Cla68. These bans have caused an immense amount of drama in the past year, and many arbitration requests and AE threads, but making all the bans mutual might finally stop that. - SightWatcher ( talk) 20:57, 9 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by AlanystSightWatcher's response to Mathsci reads to me largely as "get off my back, will ya?" with a bit of commentary about how SightWatcher feels the community regards Mathsci's complaints. It does not read to me as an effort to pursue harassment of Mathsci, to engage in debate about race and intelligence, or to fight any kind of battle. The text of SightWatcher's R&I topic ban is: "SightWatcher is indefinitely banned from editing and/or discussing the topic of Race and Intelligence on any page of Wikipedia, including user talk pages, or from participating in any discussion concerning the conduct of editors who have worked in the topic. This editor may however within reason participate in dispute resolution and noticeboard discussions if their own conduct has been mentioned." Mathsci was the one who mentioned Sightwatcher in the first place, and in my opinion SightWatcher's response was measured and "within reason" as the topic ban allows. I recommend that the requested enforcement action be declined. alanyst 07:04, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Cla68Sandstein, you might should check this. Cla68 ( talk) 11:39, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeThis is a frivolous request. MathSci opened the door by discussing Sightwatcher's conduct. The terms of Sightwatcher's sanction allow them to respond. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 21:49, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved Wer900I'm sick and tired of Mathsci's rehashing of the Captain Occam brouhaha. Mathsci had already started an AN/I thread against me here, in which I explained that I was merely intending to bring about meaningful reform of Wikipedia governance with the case, and that I did not endorse any of Captain Occam's views on race and intelligence. In fact, no "case" or "proxy editing" ever happened; as retold here, the most I ever did was to ask now-blocked Viriditas ( talk · contribs), a user whom I respect, whether he wanted to take the case on my behalf given my relative inexperience with those aspects of Wikipedia. Viriditas declined to take the case (so Mathsci should stop mentioning him), and on the AN/I extracted a promise that I would not edit on Occam's behalf in any way.Now, with the current AN/I circus regarding my perceived incivility against Beeblebrox ( talk · contribs), Mathsci has tried to once again take center stage by bringing up the mere shadow of a nonexistent case against him and making all on the thread believe that somehow his words have substance. Furthermore, when I discussed an email from AGK which gave me the right to carry on the "proxy-editing" he so reviles (a right that I most certainly do not intend to exercise, for his clarification), he was whipped up in an even greater tempest. Mathsci, I quote the relevant portion of the email (although it only represents AGK's opinion on the matter, and is general advice rather than a writ of certiorari [for lack of a better term here]):
Again, Mathsci needs to stop bringing me up in regards to this case, stop creating drama, and accept that my actions were not explicitly prohibited, to the best of my knowledge. For the last time, I will not take the R&I case on behalf of Captain Occam; I hope that I have stated this unambiguously for Mathsci to accept and digest. Wer900 • talk 23:22, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Only in DeathBefore you get sanction happy on Cla68, the two diffs in Mathsci's first collapsed section (89 and 90 respectively) were the last thing Mathsci posted before Cla68's comment. As they directly refer to Cla68 (in fact they only concern him and no one else named here) he is entitled to some response. Just because he has not been named directly, does not allow Mathsci to bait him in this manner, especially given the terms of the ridiculous one-way interaction ban imposed on them. It is textbook gaming. How many times does this need to be pointed out? One-way interaction bans are a terrible idea. They almost never work given the combativeness of the editors they are usually involved with. Either lift it, or make it two-way for a level playing field. Otherwise you are complicit and enabling what is, at this point in time, Mathsci's hounding of other editors through wikipedia processes. Stick a two-way interaction ban on Mathsci and everyone previously under one-way bans, advise him any further process-requests have to be put through a third party administrator (Its not like he is short on friends to do so) and everyone can go back to editing productively. Only in death does duty end ( talk) 09:45, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Comment by too stupid to stay out of it NE EntPlease see also ANI NE Ent 13:32, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by (other editor)Result concerning SightWatcherThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. As Alanyst points out, the topic ban contains the proviso that "This editor may however within reason participate in dispute resolution and noticeboard discussions if their own conduct has been mentioned." The edit reported here is broadly within the scope of that exception, even if the part about Mors Martell is not. I don't see how this report's repeated mention of the website Wikipediocracy or another user, Captain Occam, has any relevance to the alleged topic ban violation being reported. I'd leave it at a warning to SightWatcher.The post by Mathsci to which SightWatcher replied, in which Mathsci seems to allege without evidence some sort of offwiki conspiracy by editors including SightWatcher, does not strike me as helpful in the least. Considering WP:ARBR&I#Mathsci: admonished, we may want to consider a warning or discretionary sanction with regard to Mathsci. As an aside, the general tone of parts of the ANI discussion is appalling and confirms my impression that the whole noticeboard is now much more a source of disruption than a place in which to resolve it. Sandstein 07:51, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
The original restriction was designed to stop the problem of somewhat frivolous requests/gaming of the system by Mathsci against individuals he is in conflict with. This seems to exactly qualify as one of those such requests, and Mathsci has failed to follow the restriction. IMO it is important to emphasise the Mathsci that starting up the same behaviour as before is strongly discouraged; he has a tendency (IIRC) to use the lack of a sanction as evidence of his being correct or vindicated. What that sanction amounts to I wouldn't like to suggest; personally I got fed up of his constant battleground conduct (whilst ill and somewhat incapacitated, unable to contribute content, he spent a lot of time pursuing his various disputes on here). I've tried to communicate this problem with him, but that gets exhausting so I decline to bother trying again. Someone else's turn :) --
Errant (
chat!) 10:42, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
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| No action against Jamesx12345. SonofSetanta blocked two weeks due to repeated problems in observing his WP:TROUBLES topic ban. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Jamesx12345
Edit war at Gerry Adams
User_talk:Jamesx12345#11_09_2013
Discussion concerning Jamesx12345Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Jamesx12345I appreciate I may be in violation of the revert rule, and am happy to accept the consequences, whatever they may be. However, I would be clear that I was removing edits that went completely against established consensus. I don't feel that I what I did was any different to reverting ordinary vandalism, but am open to correction. It is unfortunate that I was involved in a very similar situation a few weeks ago, which may suggest I am frequently involved in disruptive behaviour, but I hope you will see that is not the case from my archives. Jamesx 1 2345 17:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Murry1975I was the one who originally revert the newbie (see below for his case), James12345 came across this users further actions and revert using Huggle, using the edit summary "Factual Errors". As far as I am aware, BLP edits that are "of libelous, biased, unsourced, or poorly sourced contentious material" maybe removed, I understand that it is not a get out of jail free card, and can still lead to sanctions on both parties but I believe James was acting in good faith against a newbie pushing his point of view in highly contentious area. A brief look at James' editing shows a constructive editor, on here a little over a year with nearly 14,000 edits and a clear block log. He unfortunately, while acting in good faith reverted too many times, but I believe the exeption should be used due to the single purpose of the newbie account, and James trying to maintain the basic principles of the encyclopedia. Murry1975 ( talk) 20:09, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by (SonofSetanta)@Ed Johnston. Wikipedia:Banning_policy#Topic_ban makes it clear that there are exceptions to the ban including reverting obvious vandalism which this obviously was. I chose not to make a revert but to bring the case to AE. SonofSetanta ( talk) 11:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeWow, am I reading this correctly? SonofSetanta filed a RfE in an area they're topic-banned from?! Anyway, if I counted correctly, they've already been sanctioned 6 times in this topic-space. Apparently, they haven't learned that they need to drop the stick. I'd suggest a block of maybe a month or so. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 16:51, 14 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Jamesx12345This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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| Moot, as Sisoo vesimhu has been indefinitely blocked. Sandstein |
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Request concerning Sisoo vesimhu
There is an ongoing sockpuppetry investigation into this account. Checkuser has already confirmed matching accounts.
Discussion concerning Sisoo vesimhuStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Sisoo vesimhuthere is one edit, and one revert. 2 reverts are required for a breach of 1RR. Sisoo vesimhu ( talk) 17:45, 16 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Sean.hoylandSee Ed's comment at SPI. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:58, 16 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Sisoo vesimhuThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The diff of the warning is of a warning about discretionary sanctions generally. We'd need a diff of a warning specifically about the 1RR restriction in order for this to be actionable, in my view. Sandstein 07:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
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| Appeal declined. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:07, 20 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found
here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Plot SpoilerI am appealing this arbitration enforcement because I believe the penalty (a three month topic ban) was excessive to the charge. Previous to this block, I had never been topic banned or blocked for more than 36 hours (the last time I was blocked was over a year and a half ago) [152]). Of the six charges brought by the submitting party, only the first two were deemed to apply, and the closing admin also added a case of WP:close paraphrasing, which was not subject to ARBPIA because it was not in the IP topic area (and was quickly fixed). I also recognized my failures and misunderstanding of certain policies (like WP:SELFSOURCE) -- and I was not edit warring with other parties over this (which if I was would have been sufficient cause for an AE case). It's unclear how the closing admin determined that a three month ban was appropriate (I believe a warning or a short block would have sufficed). I would appreciate if there were greater feedback from other admins, since there was no discussion about what a proper penalty would be before it was levied. Overall, I think this could have been dealt with sufficiently on talk pages or boards other than AE, which unfortunately has become a primary tool of choice for battleground editors to get each other sanctioned. Thanks. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 19:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by SandsteinIt appears that the imposition of a sanction is not contested, only its type and length. Because sanctions should be preventative rather than punitive, I prefer imposing topic bans over blocks because the former are limited to the topic are where problems have manifested. As to the appropriate length, that is of course a matter about which opinions may differ. I believe three months are an adequate time in which the appellant may demonstrate their understanding of the policies at issue. If another administrator is of the view that another duration would be substantially more appropiate, I've no objection to them changing the duration. As concerns the time of closure, the request had been open for eight days, which is more than enough for any opinions to be offered (and such opinions are not even necessary as a matter of procedure); and the appellant themselves requested that the request be closed. Sandstein 21:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Dlv999I don't see any evidence here or in the discussion above of plot spoiler acknowledging the problematic elements of his editing that led Sandestein to conclude that he had engaged in tendentious editing. It is odd, because he can clearly see that the pattern of editing he has engaged in is problematic when he sees it in other editors (quoting from his statements above: "Through Sepsis's own edits, you can clearly see a tendentious inclination of using pro-Palestinian advocacy organizations, while rejecting one's s/he deems pro-Israel", "Furthermore, how do you explain your neutrality based on this sequence of events, in which you are clearly are applying different criteria to sources from different sides of the conflict"). What I would really like to see is an acknowledgement that he understands why this pattern in his own edits has been viewed as tendentious and a commitment to try and be more balanced/neutral/objective about source selection and application of policy in future, especially when he is editing in topics that he may have strong feelings about. Dlv999 ( talk) 00:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Plot Spoiler
Comment by uninvolved A Quest for KnowledgeI recommend that this request be declined. Three months is not that long and this is not the first time Plot Spoiler has been sanctioned. A Quest For Knowledge ( talk) 22:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Plot Spoiler
I don't see anything in Plot Spoiler's comment addressing anything other than the length of the sanction, and that is more or less at the discretion of the sanctioning admin anyway. The comment linked to by Sandstein does clearly talk about hoping "this" is closed soon, but seems to be referring to a separate discussion, not this one, so I'm not sure it necessarily applies to this particular request. However, at this point, I can't see any good reason for anyone to think that the ban should be reduced by such an action as this. It is of course always possible for someone to request the sanctioning admin directly to shorten such a sanction, and I think that would probably be the better and more productive approach to this concern. John Carter ( talk) 21:22, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
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| Appeal declined-- Cailil talk 13:00, 25 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found
here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by 198.189.184.243I feel that there is a violation of the WP:RGW policy at play here, since the fact of reconsideration of ascorbate for cancer treatment (evidence aside from those reviews suggests that it might have use as a complementary cancer treatment) is being pushed in mainstream journals: http://advances.nutrition.org/content/2/2/78, http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/809.long The reasons for this reconsideration are pharmacokinetic studies, animal studies, case series, and pharmacological observations. Some discussion ensued on the talk page about subsequent phase I trials. There were discrepancies with these trials - some of them did show an effect, others did not (implying that the effect was situational), and the blanket condemnation of them is not valid. Other studies showed improved quality of life as an adjunct to traditional therapy, regardless of specific anticancer effect. I cover all of this here, at a comment at the bottom of the talk page, which has since been deleted: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Orthomolecular_medicine&diff=prev&oldid=574384007#Vit_C The initial pretext was that I deserved sanctions because I was "edit warring", when I only made one edit. Immediately I was reported to a noticeboard, which, to me signified an illegitimate attempt against me. After this, I made only one revert (did not at all violate 3RR), because I felt that these pretexts were invalid. After that, my edit was reverted because Phase I trials are not encouraged under WP:MEDRS, which I am perfectly fine with. People can view the history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Orthomolecular_medicine&action=history In light of everything that has been presented at the talk page (including my deleted comments), I feel that a perfectly reasonable replacement for the contentious section is the following: "Some research groups have recently suggested that the use of ascorbate in cancer treatment be reevaluated.( http://advances.nutrition.org/content/2/2/78 )( http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/809.long ). A retrospective, multicenter, epidemiological cohort study showed that complementary treatment of cancer patients receiving traditional chemotherapy and radiotherapy with intravenous vitamin c improved quality of life.( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22021693 )" 198.189.184.243 ( talk) 23:24, 24 September 2013 (UTC) Aside from that, I would be fine with being given the ability to make only one revert or to not make reverts at all - as a limited, but not banned, user - or at least be given the ability to write on talk pages, with the articles made semi-protected. From the contributions on the talk page (particularly the deleted one), I feel that I bring up important points. Monty845 says on his user page that he finds any form of censorship offensive. I feel that I bring important relevant information to the discussion that warrants consideration, that deleting it (even on talk pages - particularly considering the last edit (see bottom): http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Orthomolecular_medicine&diff=prev&oldid=574384007#Vit_C) is going a step too far. 198.189.184.243 ( talk) 00:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by EdJohnstonI imposed this restriction after a discussion at the edit warring noticeboard that can be seen here. The immediate reason for the ban was the user's persistence in adding his POV at Orthomolecular medicine regardless of the opposition of other editors on the talk page. (He wants the article to give credence to the value of Vitamin C in cancer treatment). He became active on the article on 21 August and has made about nine reverts since that time. The editor's style of reasoning may be seen at Talk:Orthomolecular medicine#Vit C. Since he started work on Orthomolecular medicine the user has been blocked twice, the last time for 72 hours. The blocks do not seem to have had any beneficial effect. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:21, 25 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by 198.189.184.243Result of the appeal by 198.189.184.243
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| Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) is blocked for two weeks. Sandstein 12:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )
It's only one violation, but considering that the editor hardly edits anymore, I still consider it significant enough to warrant attention. Whether that should be a stern final warning or a block is up to those reviewing this of course. Fram ( talk) 06:51, 25 September 2013 (UTC) Note that this edit (from June, but still among his 100 most recent edits) may not violate the letter but at least the spirit of his restriction, adding a 76-word quote from a copyrighted source (a 1978 Chicago Tribune article), from a link to his own copyright-violating flickr site, instead of removing the link to his own copyright violation. The work that he should have done at the article has since been done by Nikkimaria [154]. Fram ( talk) 07:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )Statement by (username)Result concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The complaint has merit. The enforcement provision reads "That user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year; after the third block issued under this provision, subsequent blocks issued under this provision may be of any duration, including indefinite". A relatively steep escalation of enforcement block seems to have been envisioned, and this would be the first enforcement block. In enforcement of the restriction, Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) is therefore blocked for two weeks. Sandstein 12:21, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
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![[153]](http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:William_Edward_Ensko_%281888-1918%29_death_reported_in_the_Brooklyn_Eagle_on_Thursday,_August_15,_1918.png){kind=link}
| Doncram is indefinitely topic-banned from any edits relating to the National Register of Historic Places and related areas, broadly construed, aside from the normal exceptions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:00, 25 September 2013 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Doncram
In the last 24 hours or so, Doncram has breached normal standards of behavior and decorum through personal attacks on multiple other editors, as well as edit warring over whether his new article creations are stubs or start-class. This behavior has caused real damage, including bot operator's decision not to continue work on a bot request related to the WikiProject's actions to solve the issue that was "remanded to the community" in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram#Stub content debate remanded to community:
I didn't want to come here. I was looking around to find someone Doncram respects who is currently active here to ask them to give him some "word to the wise" advice when I saw the evidence of the damage his recent behavior has done to the NRHP Wikiproject. After seeing that, I concluded that this behavior warrants a more vigorous response than mere advice. -- Orlady (talk) 02:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC) I am disappointed by Doncram's initial statement (which I acknowledge is likely to be revised or supplemented). The warring over whether an article is a stub or a start-class, together with Doncram's unilateral effort to prevent the wikiproject from having assessment criteria or tagging articles with sourcing issues, has been disruptive and is a concern. However, that pettiness is hardly the only issue here. [After writing the foregoing sentences, I started thinking that Doncram's comments that suggest that he considers article ratings to be critically important (for example, his "minor, schminor" edit summary on MatthewVanitas' talk page, as well as his focus on ratings in his statement here) are an indication that he has lost his perspective on what's important and what's petty. -- Orlady ( talk) 17:06, 17 September 2013 (UTC)] Doncram's persistence in personalizing content discussions -- a pattern I've seen for more than 5 years -- is poisonous. The personal attacks -- the assertions that other users have "weird" or racist motivations, the allegations that other users are "egging on other editors" for the purpose of "construct[ing] contention" or "harass[ing]" Doncram -- are unacceptable and need to stop. His statement here and his recent actions on talk pages suggest to me that he not only doesn't recognize that his "when faced with adversity, assume bad faith" attitude is a problem, but that he thinks it's absolutely the right filter for interpreting other users' behavior. -- Orlady ( talk) 16:52, 17 September 2013 (UTC) @The Devil's Advocate: I'm not aware of any restriction against my participating in RM discussions that were highlighted on a noticeboard that I have watchlisted, such as Freemasonry or in visiting (and fixing problems I see) at articles identified in an active Wikiproject discussion like this one. And after some other very recent discussions on article ratings with Coal town guy ( [158] [159]), it didn't even occur to me that his query on the NRHP talk page might be related to an article by Doncram. -- Orlady ( talk) 01:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry to see that Doncram has not come back to edit his statement here. This may mean that he decided that he needed a break from Wikipedia to clear his head. However, if that's what he's doing, it probably would be in his interest to explain himself here. -- Orlady ( talk) 15:35, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning DoncramStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500
words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by DoncramI have been notified and will respond later. However real life obligations intervene, with deadlines that I must meet through Thursday, and I cannot respond fully for a few days. I don't think there is anything extremely urgent that must be addressed here, and I won't be editing elsewhere. Extremely briefly, though: it seems inappropriate for editors from one wikiproject, who are in the process of redefining what a Start rating means for their wikiproject, to change other Wikiproject's ratings, and I think especially not to change a named AFC editor's rating. I opened discussion about this at a Talk page and discussed this clearly, and I reverted changes of the AFC editor's AFC rating, but did not revert the NRHP wikiproject rating. Hasteur noted, I think directed at CTG changing the rating: " Please for the love of DIETY do not edit war over the evaluation that a member of the AfC project gave to a page. If you disagree with the rating given on behalf of your project, feel free to change it, but each project has it's own rubric over what constitutes the various classes." For my objecting to an editor changing the AFC editor's rating (which seems like editing the AFC editor's Talk page comments to say something different than what the AFC editor said), an Arbitration Enforcement? Briefly about User:TonyTheTiger, contrary to Orlady and Crisco 1492's statements, I have previously advised/commented to TTT in the FourAward discussion (i believe at TTT's Talk and at one or more ANIs and at wt:fouraward). And I absolutely do not and did not condone accusations of racism. The assertions regarding that, here are out of context and misleading. I can comment more about that later, if necessary, but it seems unfortunate to drag TTT and Crisco and others into the NRHP topic area, it really seems unrelated. About other issues raised I will comment later. -- do ncr am 06:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by HasteurI have elected to withdraw from the NRHP project for a multitude of reasons, but in specific the Toxic and disruptive environment presented against Doncram (with specific notice to the last 24 hours of content) is the straw to break the camel's back. Early on in the BotReq phase of the request for the NRIS-only tagging, Doncram attempted to insert such complications that would make it nearly impossible for a repeated and mundane process to be able to accomplish the stated goal ( Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 56#Bot to tag articles only sourced to National Register Information System). Once the process moved forward into the BRFA thread Doncram tried to load the process down with additional tasks that would again make the bot's task impossible without adding a great amount of complexity and subsequently making it a loosing proposition for any Bot Operator to take up the task. As there were veiled threats of bulk undoing and contestations of consensus, I only considered it right to remove the rapidty from the equation. At this point, any editor could re-construct the list for calculating the matching articles without using a bot account to edit. I have attempted to give Doncram the benefit of the doubt by viewing pages that he has submitted for creation as neutrally as possible. In some cases this means approval and movement into mainspace (such as Kilauea Plantation). In others this means declining the pseudo-AfC and attempting to get more. I've watched various projects and associations of editors clash with Doncram with the percieved result of Doncram continues much in the same way whereas the other side becomes demoarlized and conceeds the point in face of the mass changes that Doncram leads in the consensus of 1. Hasteur ( talk) 03:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by TheCatalyst31After the Arbcom case closed, I reviewed a lot of Doncram's articles and tried to improve his contributions. It seemed to be going well at first, but over the past few months he's been making all kinds of problematic edits. There was this borderline vandalism edit back in June. There was this insinuation that I "would have to be incredibly bizarre" to question his work after I pointed out that he didn't appear to have read a document he cited. There was this post, which simultaneously attacked writers of long articles and "some weirdly anti-NRHP people", which seems to be directed at Orlady. There's the overrating of his own articles, which started back in August and has been going on since. There's an edit that appears to imply that editors he doesn't like would have to worry about being punched in the face at a meetup. There's the "some dumb Queen Anne style house in a remote rural area" comment, which was another attack on writers of longer articles and upset Coal town guy, who's from a rural area. And now there's his latest attack on Orlady and Coal town guy, which has driven three editors away from WikiProject NRHP and is exactly the kind of behavior he was warned against. This kind of behavior has been causing all kinds of trouble for WikiProject NRHP, and something needs to be done to get it to stop (and based on past experience, admonishment isn't going to work). TheCatalyst31 Reaction• Creation 04:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Crisco 1492
TonyTheTiger and I, as is plastered throughout much of the WP namespace, have been having a falling-out since June/July. Doncram, to the best of my knowledge, has not been previously involved in any of the discussions regarding this, be it one of three on ANI (links later if required) or at
WT:FOUR. As such, I find it concerning that his initial reaction was (to paraphrase) "Yeah, Tony, someone might be out to get you".
Statement by ChoessIn light of the history between Orlady and Doncram, I feel I should point out that I independently came to the same conclusion regarding that advisability of sanctions. I think the diffs above largely speak for themselves. This is the culmination of five years or so of tension, wherein Doncram has created an enormous volume of very short articles on NRHP-listed properties and resisted the increasingly forceful efforts of other editors on the topic to make him improve his articles or to clean them up in an organized fashion. Because of this history of acrimony, Doncram now attributes criticism of his methods to the machinations of a few particular editors, which has seriously disrupted collaboration at WP:NRHP. Choess ( talk) 06:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by TonyTheTigerI interact with Doncram for advice on National Register of Historic Places articles and help him out with photo needs as I am able. Recently Doncram has interacted with me in an attempt to stabilize WP:FOUR when it first got rocky about two months ago. He has helped keep me level-headed in regards to a turbulent situation. In general I find him to be quite productive. I briefly looked at some of the edits above. I side with the stub viewpoint in the stub/start war above. Personally, I find a start/stub ratings disagreement not worth getting hung out to dry over. I would advise him to let ratings slide when he encounters vigorous opposition from multiple parties. In regards to his comments on my most recent blow up with Crisco, I found him to be supportive of my claims in a way that may have been offensive to my detractors. Nonetheless, I appreciate his empathy. I thinks it would be great if this tag team could ease up on Doncram and let him go on doing his fine work here on our national monuments and landmarks.-- TonyTheTiger ( T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:39, 17 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by SmallbonesI've been one of Doncram's few supporters at WP:NRHP, in general I agree with his aims, if not his style. The ongoing problem over several years has been that he just can't get along with other editors. I do see some ganging up on him and he is not always in the wrong, but he fails to go along with consensus, most of the time just arguing ad naseum I've proposed at WT:NRHP that he receive a one-week topic ban for this disruption, followed by a two-week topic ban if it happens again, with a doubling of the length of the topic ban each additional time he causes disruption. This should concentrate his mind on ways to avoid disruption, or give us some peace at WP:NRHP. The choice would be up to Doncram. Smallbones( smalltalk) 18:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's AdvocateOnce more, I would like to reiterate that Orlady should stay away from Doncram. She was already strongly urged to do so by Errant after dragging Doncram to ANI because . . . wait for it . . . she thought his user talk page was too long. This was after she had taken the lead in going after Doncram for the start-stub dispute ( [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168]). Despite Errant's admonishment she has continued stalking his contributions ( [169] [170] [171] [172] [173]) in addition to her usual role in fanning the flames of disputes with Doncram at the NRHP wikiproject. I know she claims that she did not know the Eads Gymnasium article was one of Doncram's contributions, but it seems unlikely that she did not at least suspect it since she had previously commented on an Eads church article that she presumably knew was contributed by Doncram as she had looked at the revision history. Unfortunately, it is very hard to deal with this situation because any sanctions would have to come through some other forum as there is no authorization under the ArbCom case for resolving this persistent problem of Orlady's harassment. I will say, my impression is that stub-class is meant for articles that are one or two sentences long, not articles that are a good-sized paragraph long and certainly not any longer than that. Additionally, I think the proposal for a bot adding clean-up tags is absurd and seems pretty unusual. I don't know of any bots that perform such a pointless task and given the way some editors seek to denigrate Doncram's contributions it does not surprise me that he would take personal offense. Orlady's involvement in fanning the flames is just making it all the more difficult for him to keep cool.-- The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
@NW, my comment may be too blunt for you, especially since you were reluctant to take substantive action against anyone harassing Doncram, but it is no less truthful and is most certainly relevant. Orlady seems to think that Doncram coming across a page she has on a watchlist means she is not engaged in harassment by opposing him there, even if the page is only on her watchlist because Doncram had previously been there. Anyone who knows anything about harassment knows that harassment often involves following places a person has previously been in case they show up there again. Orlady is bringing this case here and citing comments about her as part of the basis for sanctions so her treatment of him is pertinent.-- The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 20:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
@Cailil, I believe barring Doncram from the NRHP area would be excessive and harmful to the project given that it is his primary contribution here. Were you to look over most of his articles you would see not even a hint of the problems his opponents have regularly cited against him. If your main concern is the dispute over classifications of articles then you can simply bar him from changing and adding such classifications himself.-- The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 16:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Statement by AcroterionThe contention is an outgrowth of the effort by the NRHP project to implement Remedy #6 of the arbitration conclusion, in which the community was advised to set standards for stub creation. This has led to a focus on consistent standards for article rating, and scrutiny of newly created articles and their ratings. The emphasis of this effort is broader than simply deciding what constitutes a stub, it is intended as a focused article improvement and expansion effort, supported by bot tasks to gather information on minimally-sourced stubs. While on a small scale it's not important whether a given article is rated a stub or a start, and in my opinion not worth a single revert, much less an edit war, the larger effort is necessary and appropriate as Wikipedia matures. Arguments over a stub/start evaluation are characteristic of the minimalist approach adopted by Doncram. Doncram is capable of producing detailed, quality articles, but prefers a broad-brush approach that emphasizes quantity over quality, and he appears to view the quality improvement initiative and stub scrutiny as criticism of his effort, which to some degree it is, given that it's an result of the previous arbitration proceeding. If the small, and largely meaningless step from stub to start is so contentious, what about real improvement to B and beyond? Some of the problem is the result of AfC ratings that don't coincide with the goals of the NRHP project, and of course we can all find dozens of articles throughout the wiki that are rated as B when they're no better than starts. I'm fairly cynical about the accuracy of any individual rating, but the larger effort is important and the disruption to that effort is undermining a larger benefit to the encyclopedia. I've generally supported Doncram more than many participants in NRHP, but I find his attitude toward other editors and toward criticism, either explicit or implied, to be frustrating and divisive. I endorse Smallbones' proposed remedy as a way of allowing the work of the encyclopedia to proceed: no one editor should be able to disrupt basic article improvement initiatives or to affect what should be a dispassionate evaluation of articles and their state of development. Acroterion (talk) 15:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by Cla68NuclearWarfare, instead of spending so much time criticizing DevilsAdvocate's statement, why don't you first work through if what he is saying is true? Is Orlady following Doncram around Wikipedia and trying to find reasons to get him banned or bait him into reacting to her? If so, are you going to do anything about it? Please look at the evidence before picking a side. Cla68 ( talk) 22:25, 18 September 2013 (UTC) Statement by NyttendLet me simply remind the AE admins that this project has long experienced serious strife, with the singular exception of a period running from late December 2011 until late June 2012. Few or no problems occur in discussions in which Doncram is uninvolved (see the WT:NRHP thread on "Cedar Point Light"; we don't all agree, but it's calm and peaceful), but his actions and his methods of interacting with other users generally produce the problems. Language such as "egging another editor on" (without evidence) and characterisation of other editors' statements as "indictments" that are "pretty hurtful, and pretty immature, and pretty short-sighted" has persisted since before the Arbcom case, as has his pattern of bothering other users to the point that they take down useful resources when he's used those resources in a way that produces strife. This was the kind of stuff that was supposed to be stopped by the case's restrictions. Nyttend ( talk) 03:33, 19 September 2013 (UTC) Result concerning DoncramThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Waiting on Doncram's statement. Meanwhile, could the editors who ask for administrator action please recommend which action they deem appropriate, and why? Sandstein 06:22, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
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- I was just commenting in an edit-in-progress that was swept into the now-hatted, closed discussion. I did not experience an edit conflict, but it was an ec-type simultaneous edit. To the closer and others, could you please consider that comment, and perhaps unhat for some further discussion. sincerely, --
do
ncr
am 17:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
- Considering that the closer wrote that they did read and take into consideration your statement, I see no grounds for reopening this discussion. You will need to appeal the sanction if you wish to contest it further. Sandstein 13:34, 27 September 2013 (UTC)