| Indefinitely blocked for abusing multiple accounts in a highly contentious topic area. EdJohnston ( talk) 18:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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Request concerning AmiAyalon1969
Since the user switched proxies, the reverting has continued. All of these reverts are in addition to the ones above: RolandR below gives diffs of another set of reverts at Homs. nableezy - 14:54, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
None, 1RR stipulates blocking without warning is allowed
Block
Ill note that this is an obvious sockpuppet that should be indeffed on that basis (my guess is a puppet of AFolkSingersBeard ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). But until that happens, this is a basic violation of the 1RR.
Discussion concerning AmiAyalon1969Statement by AmiAyalon1969I didn't begin this little bruhaha. If you look at my edit history you will see that a coterie of editors began shouting "SOCKPUPPET!" and "reverting all edits on sight". I would love to be able to engage in Wikipedia editing under a better atmosphere, a more "collegiate" atmosphere, but I never got the chance (one of them actually BLOCKED MY IP!). So I simply played their game and began undoing all their edits - or "edit-warring", if you will (not that it had any effect, as the gang is much bigger, as you can see). I find it quite hilarious how quickly this group jumps on a new member to prevent any editing of articles they seem to feel a sense of ownership over. AmiAyalon1969 ( talk) 06:14, 8 May 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning AmiAyalon1969AmiAyalon1969 is engaged in fresh reversion of the same text at Racism in the Palestinian territories: 04:31, 7 May 2011 and 04:15, 7 May 2011 in violation of 1RR and without any attempt to justify the material on Talk. Ditto on Judaization of Jerusalem at 04:22, 7 May 2011. No attempt to address process or respect/engage with the discussion here.-- Carwil ( talk) 08:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
yes, you are allowed to ban him and block him and give him 20 lashes without warning, but please - we have all seen much worse things get by with little or no punishment at all. so, why not explain it to him, give him 24 hours and then see what happens? if he is still edit warring, then fine - go for it. full blast. Soosim ( talk) 18:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Comment on AmiAyalon1969's comment - The probability of sockpuppetry is approximately 1. The probability of a sockpuppet lying = 1. I'm not aware of a single case out of the very large number of sockpuppet cases in this topic area where the editor hasn't blatantly lied in response to questions. When discussing matters with a sockpuppet there is no reason to believe anything they say about anything at all, so there is no reason to even talk to them or negotiate with them other than to collect further information about their linguistic, editor harassment and article targeting "tells" so that they can be more readily identified in the future. It isn't a question of whether they are edit warring or correcting spelling errors or wanting a more "collegiate" atmosphere. Nothing they do or say has any validity because WP:SOCK is a policy. They can't be here and they can't do anything. Revert, block and ignore is the way to minimise disruption. As has been said many times, assume good faith is not a suicide pact. Sockpuppetry is a persistently destabilizing influence on the I-P topic area, it's probably the thing that causes the most disruption and yet the topic area is largely unprotected from its negative effects. An obvious sock is obvious but the parent "sockmaster" account often isn't known which precludes filing an SPI report. We have what look like obvious socks editing in the I-P topic area and apparently no mechanism to deal with them efficiently. They make thousands of edits. They cause conflict across multiple articles. They harass editors. Disposable sockpuppet accounts are commonplace in the I-P topic area. They're used for feint retreats as we have seen here. There is a brief engagement with "the enemy" to draw fire followed by an attack via noticeboards or whatever by like minded editors acting in support of the sockpuppet. When aggressive POV pushing editors make a couple of thousand neutral, encyclopedic edits in areas outside of the conflict zone to articles about the arts, technology, science etc they will have earned the right to a more "collegiate" atmosphere. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:52, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning AmiAyalon1969
Tnxman307 ( talk · contribs) has blocked the proxy this user is using to edit. We can leave this open for a bit longer, but I don't see a need to block the account right now. T. Canens ( talk) 23:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
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| No action taken. T. Canens ( talk) 06:04, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Nableezy
Gaming of the restriction:
Enforcement of this restriction requires no warning, but the user's activity on the board makes it clear he is quite familiar with it - see the request right above this one as one example.
Indef Topic ban
This user was until recently subject to a fairly lengthy topic ban (4 months), which came after numerous other shorter topic bans and blocks for edit warring in the topic area. During his 4 month topic ban, he contributed very little - around 120 edits to main space. Since the topic ban expired, he resumed right were he left off - hundred of edits, the vast majority of which are reverts, edit warring, using this board and others as a WP:BATTLEGROUND, and as the diffs above indicate -gaming the system. He just does not get it. @Malik: Yes, consecutive reverts count as one, and this is one revert with a timestamp of 19:38, 5 May 2011 (the earlier revert having been "canceled out of existence" by the revert timestamped 20:46, 5 May 2011.) But even if we were to generously apply the timestamp of the last revert, this would make it yet another case of gaming, with the revert occurring at 24hours + 54 minutes. With regards to 1948 Palestinian exodus, it may very well be that some else might have reverted AmiAyalon1969 - but that is beside the point. The point is that Nablezzy violated 1RR by not waiting for that someone else to do so. There are rules here, and he is not exempt. @Sean: The editor who Nableezy reverted has not been blocked, I guess that makes you a liar. There is no exemption in 1RR for reverting what you consider "CAMERA Crap". You edit war and break 1RR - you get blocked. The rules should apply to Nableezy like they apply to everyone else.
Notified: [7] Discussion concerning NableezyStatement by NableezyI reverted an obvious sockpuppet a bit early, so I self-reverted after checking the timing in the history. I then waited until the 24 hours was up. Ill note that the obvious sockpuppet's open proxy has been blocked by checkuser. I also note that the filing editor fits the profile of Mr. Hicks The III ( talk · contribs), but that is another matter. There was no "gaming" here. I reverted an obvious sockpuppet a bit early. My revert of brewcrewer's edit took place at 18:29, 5 May 2011 not 21:12, which was a self-revert. That places all reverts outside of 24 hours. The most troubling thing here is the seemingly endless supply of sockpuppets and the willingness of certain user (cough cough, look above) to use those sockpuppets to their advantage. nableezy - 20:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy
Result concerning Nableezy
No action taken. Reversion of likely sockpuppet edits, blocked or not, are exempted from xRR rules. The fact that a checkuser determined that there is sufficient evidence to warrant a check is conclusive on this point. T. Canens ( talk) 06:03, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
| TFD's topic ban is lifted, but he is warned against disruptive editing. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC) |
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Statement by The Four DeucesThis is an arbitrary decision by one administrator with no input from other administrators. I do not wish to criticize the administrator, but would ask the arbitration committee to review the discussion thread and determine whether they agree or whether they have any questions. TFD ( talk) 01:22, 30 April 2011 (UTC) Reply to Fred Bauder Despite extensive searching, I have been able to find only the following mention of Looveer in published books or articles:
1. mentioned that Loover accompanied
Lyenko Urbanchich when the Liberal Party heard a request to expel him. 2. mentions that when Ervin Viks disappeared he issued a statement through Looveer, and also that she was a prominent member of the Liberal Party's Migrant Advisory Council, which included Laszlo Megay. 3. says that Looveer was secretary of Advisory Council and mentions other prominent members Laszlo Megay and Constantin Untaru. It also mentions
William Wentworth,
Douglas Darby, Col. J. M. Prentice, Eileen Furley and Arleen Lower. (p. 172) There is no other information about her in any of these sources. It says that ASIO, the Australian security intelligence service, reported to the Liberal Prime Minister and cabinet unfavorably on the activities of I would not expect a lot to be written about the secretary of these organizations. However the sources are consistent about them. I see nothing wrong with adding information from these sources, and in fact other editors agreed to include information from the first source last year. I would welcome additional published sources, however none have been found. None of this in any way is critical of ethnic minorities and in fact most of the members of the council were of British ancestry. All of these sources appear to be reliable, and there are no sources that provide a different set of facts. TFD ( talk) 03:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC) (Note - I summarized what I wrote on the talk page incorrectly and have now corrected it. TFD ( talk) 15:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)) Since this sanction involves "generalized accusations... against a particular national or ethnic group", I would like to clearly state my opinion on that topic. I do not subscribe to collective responsibility. No nationality bears responsibility for actions that were taken by their compatriots. I realize first hand the unfairness of this characterization as my father was German and my girlfriend's father was a police officer in Latvia during the war. Neither were Nazis and both took personal risk in opposition to the German government. I have started several articles on right-wing and conservative topics, including: Radical right, Right-wing terrorism, Willi Schlamm and Kenneth Goff and made substantial revisions to Right-wing populism and Conservatism. None of those articles imply that right-wing ideology is more associated with a particular national group and none even mention Eastern European minorities. TFD ( talk) 16:44, 1 May 2011 (UTC) I would question the propriety of Fred Bauder, acting as an administrator in this case, joining the content discussion as he does at the article talk page, [13] WP:RSN#Book by former Communist [14] [15] [16] and on my talk page. [17] Incidentally the "Darby Report" recommended as a source by Fred Bauder is a political blog by Michael_Darby, son of Douglas Darby referred to above. [18] I would like the record to show that in fairness to Darby's new political party, the Christian Democrats, I removed the description far right from the article in 2009 [19] and Tammsalu agreed with me. [20] TFD ( talk) 16:14, 3 May 2011 (UTC) Further reply to Fred Bauder: I would lke to see the reasoning you have used in this matter added to your proposal. You stated that both Mark Aarons' book published by Black Inc. and Lachlan Clohesy's PhD thesis "conflate anti-communism with Nazi collaboration". [21] You also stated, "A book by a scion of a family prominent in the Australian Communist Party about emigre politics has such a strong appearance of bias due to conflict of interest that regardless of its intrinsic qualities it can not be accepted as a reliable source...." [22] I am curous also how the prohibtion against writings of former Communists should affect the use of former communist Stéphane Courtois's introducton to The Black Book of Communism, which you have used extensively as a source. TFD ( talk) 15:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Fred BauderPlease note that I was one of the arbitrators who participated in drafting and adopting the original arbitration decision. The decision was based on Section 8 and 12 of the remedies in the arbitration decision:
Attempts to discuss the problems involved with tarring members of the emigre community by citing information from sources which conflate anti-communism with Nazi collaboration were ineffective. During the arbitration enforcement discussion he advanced additional material of the same nature [23] that provoked the original dispute. [24] This behavior predictably provokes other editors and results in a great deal more heat than light. See Talk:Lia Looveer and note the prevalence of talk about Nazism with respect to a respected member of the Liberal Party of Australia. I think the decision is reasonably limited, affecting only the ethnic populations which were victims of the Soviet gulag and the confusion resulting from the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact and Soviet and Nazi occupation. User:The Four Deuces does not seem to understand the inappropriateness of ascribing Nazi views to this population by utilizing guilt by association and until he grasps the matter should not be engaged in ideological struggle on Wikipedia with respect to articles about members of ethnic minorities in the former Soviet Union. User:Fred Bauder Talk 02:49, 30 April 2011 (UTC) A clarificationIs the indefinite ban on TFD editing articles relating to any minority peoples in the Soviet Union inclusive of article talk pages or user talk pages where such issues are discussed, or only to actual edits on those articles proper? And is the term "minority peoples" broadly defined (that is, including nations where were formerly part of the USSR, but where the peoples are not "minority" in the current nation? I am not trying to be a nudge, but wanted to be entirely clear. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 13:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Statement by BorisGFred, could you please point out where TFD made generalized accusations that persons of a particular national or ethnic group are engaged in Holocaust denial or harbor Nazi sympathies. I only see that he used sources that do that, but did not repeat these generalized accusations, but rather quoted specific (not generalised) statements from such sources about behaviour of specific individuals, rather than a particular national or ethnic group. - BorisG ( talk) 04:16, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Statement by RussaviaSources by communists can be used on WP in the same vein that sources by nationalists can be used. So f'ing what if someone was a member of the Aussie Communist Party. Does this make them unreliable? Yes, F.B. says! And anyone who disagrees with him will have the ban hammer brought down upon them. Did he even bother to read the sources presented? Of course not, he just saw the word communist and hit the ban hammer coz he doesn't like it. Well, well, let's see. Mark Aarons was a member of the CPA until mid 70s. He was then a political adviser to a NSW Labor Premier. However, according to this link:
What's that? He was also a journalist and a researcher, and as a result of his research and journalism Bob Hawke initiated an enquiry into Nazi war criminals in Australia. He was profiled and interviewed by the Sydney Morning Herald. The N.S.W. Board of Jewish Education uses his works. That the LP allowed Nazis into this country has also been profiled and written about. He has been published by the Aussie-Israel and Jewish Affairs council [25]. His book "Nazis in Australia" is widely cited [26]. And on it goes. Yet, we on WP have editors simply throw out "he's a communist" and all of a sudden anything this guy has done and any professional positions he has held, become totally irrelevant! Fred, you would be best advised to overturn your own ban and apologise for your mischaracterisation of both TFD's questions and also the potential WP:BLP characterisation of Mark Aarons. -- Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 11:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC) Additionally look at this book, which is published by a scholarly publisher and what the author has to say about Mark Aarons.
At NO stage has TFD insinuated or even stated that Balts are Nazi sympathisers/collaborators/war criminals, and neither has Mark Aarons. All that TFD has stated, and I will post it myself (and wait for a ban), is that material on Looveer is very thin (i.e. she is not notable), and that her article is built upon directory-type sources and sources which only mention her in passing. And here we have sources which also mention her in passing, and when this has been done it has brought to light that she associated herself with people with shady pasts. But some editors want to keep this out of the article. Why? There is nothing wrong with saying that she was on "this" council, which also included JoeBlow and BillyBob. Then we let readers decide for themselves whether she was a Nazi sympathiser. We don't whitewash articles to conform with Baltic histiography, just as we don't do it for Soviet histiography. -- Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 12:17, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Statement by TammsaluTFD has a tendency to distort what the sources actually say, just above in his appeal statement TFD claimed that ASIO reported unfavourably on the activities of the Liberal Party's Migrant Advisory Council, which Looveer was the secretary. After reading the source what ASIO actually reported on was the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations, which Laszlo Megay and Constantin Untaru were prominent members but not Looveer. Almost every discussion with TFD is similarly tedious, having to check sources only to find that he had misrepresented them. Mark Aarons and his book which TFD introduced here isn't the issue, but try as I might, I cannot find the quote TFD claims is in the source: ""Viks immediately disappeared, issuing a public statement through Lia Looveer of the Estonian Association. Looveer was also a prominent member of the Liberal Parry's Migrant Advisory Council, which included Laszlo Megay, the mass killer …"", I cannot even find a reference to Looveer [27]. Other claims made by TFD not found in the sources include adding material claiming Looveer supported alleged Nazi war criminal Lyenko Urbanchich. [28], stating on talk "The article should mention that the subject was on the executive of the Liberal Ethnic Council and supported the president Lyenko Urbanchich when the Liberal Party tried to suspend him." even though there is nothing published that she had done so. TFD makes an edit claiming that Looveer "defected" to Nazi Germany [29], claiming on talk "Looveer gave up her allegiance to the USSR when she went to work for the Third Reich.", "In other words, she "defected"." without any source to back that politically loaded term. Add in the fact that TFD recently accused me of right wing extremist ethnic nationalist POV and then he stated he wasn't referring to me but claimed his remarks were directed at a respected professor of international law at Tartu University during the subsequent discussion, violating WP:BLP in the process [30], then claimed he didn't [31]. So who did he direct his remarks too then? TFD would have received a three month topic ban, but promised he will avoid implied slurs against others (and against large groups of people) on contentious talk pages in the future. This is already a difficult topic area without having to contend with the added disruption caused by TFD, one only has to read threads on Talk:Lia_Looveer to see this apparent ongoing campaign to tar Lia Looveer. -- Martin ( talk) 13:07, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Paul SiebertPlease, correct me if I am wrong, but the initial Fred Bauer's rationale was as follows:
Whereas it sounds quite reasonable per se, I still cannot see what was the concrete ground for his decision. I believe it would be correct to state that most participants of the dispute, including FB and TFD agree that the source used by TFD is reliable. Therefore, the only question is if TFD used the source correctly. Concretely, I would like to know what concrete generalisations has been made by TFD which were not present in the source used by them. Let me also point out that the discussion has deviated from the initial point. It was initiated by the TFD's report, which was somewhat frivolous. I can understand the FB's rationale, and I agree that TFD use enforcement request tool too frequently, and usually without success, so we probably can speak about imposing of some moratorium on the usage of AE requests by TFD (which will save the time of both TFD and of their opponents, thereby providing them with an opportunity to switch to somewhat more useful). However, instead of discussing this issue, BF switched to the TFD's edits, and, I failed to see any satisfactory evidence in the FB's posts that prove that any violations of the Section 8 did occur. Without seeing these evidences it is hard to conclude if FB's sanctions were justified, and since the burden of proof rests with FB in this case, I expect him to present these evidences.-- Paul Siebert ( talk) 17:54, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer MarekWell, this does appear to fall under section 8 of that remedy, as Fred says (and since he helped draft it, he should know). Part of the problem here is that TFD has a history of suggesting that some individuals hold views or ideologies which they do not possess - which is what that remedy's about. This is true at the Looveer article and also with respect to Wikipedia editors ( calling editor's edits "pro fascist, calling editors "far right anti-Russian", insinuate that another editors is "right wing extremist ethnic nationalist"). Sometimes this is just barely disguised insinuation so that they can be denied, but the there is a pattern. The other problem is TFD's frequent over use of the AE board as if it was a dispute resolution process (with the "resolution" being "get people I disagree with banned"). Someone else can do an actual count of how many AEs TFD has filed or participated in [35]. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 20:06, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
@Stephen Schultz, in that "uinvolved admin" section that only a select few chosen privileged grand masters level 35 and above superstars of Wikipedia can edit: If someone sincerely believes that this dispute has nothing to do with Eastern Europe or DIGWUREN, they basically have no business commenting on this AE appeal. The idea that this is somehow unrelated to Eastern European disputes - or more specifically to Soviet vs. Baltic disputes is flatly ridiculous and I'm having trouble of seeing as how someone could even advance such a proposition. Where have you been for the past four years? Volunteer Marek ( talk) 22:54, 4 May 2011 (UTC) Statement by VecrumbaTwo points, first that TFD did not approach me in any way prior to his filing an enforcement request for me to be blocked permanently. In that regard, I should mention that quite recently I contacted Nanobear regarding his calling my character into question and he refactored his on-Wiki post to remove the part I found most offensive. There are editors who are seeking to put conflict behind them whereas other editors look on conflict as an opportunity to permanently silence editorial points of view contrary to their own. Second, regarding TFD and contentions of Nazism at Lia Looveer, this has been a pattern from the very beginning. TFD's first three contributions at Lia Looveer consisted of:
after which I added her being the recipient of a British Commonwealth award, category and link. (The deletion nomination eventually failed.) TFD's next contribution was to
TFD's next contribution was to
These are followed by examples of Looveer was member of X which also included member Y. As clearly documented by TFD's initial activities at the Lia Looveer article, TFD has been out to either delete the article or, failing to do so, paint Looveer out to be an ardent supporter of Nazism, including
These article content edits date from November-December 2009. I did not review further edits, TFD's initial contributions sufficiently establish his intent. The point is not to bring up stale edits, but rather, to point a particular POV from TFD's inception of involvement at this particular article.
PЄTЄRS
Note to Fred Bauder and Jd2178Aside from yourselves, you should be aware that whether or not they are uninvolved in this particular incident, all those participating here to date have been involved in the area of purported ideological conflict whether as proponents-antagonists or in a WP administrative capacity. (I should note that BorisG is familiar with the conflict having followed it and commented in the past mainly when the conflict has escalated into one of these affairs, but has not been a protagonist for either "side.")@Jd2178, I thank you for your taking the initiative to investigate and comment and trust you will not be dissuaded or discouraged by what anyone says here, including myself.
PЄTЄRS
Comment to Stephan SchulzI do believe there are considerations in addition to statements TFD has made and his creation of content labeling Looveer a Nazi "defector" and "supporter" of "Nazi war criminals" and continuing to lobby for similar through to the present. This is the only biography (AFAIK) where someone who has never been accused of being a Nazi during their life is being described as such by Wikipedia (per TFD), including the afore-mentioned defecting as a traitor to the Nazis, with not one whit of evidence to support these abhorrent contentions. Lia Looveer is not an isolated incident, it is rather (as you can see here by everyone who has come out of the woodwork to discuss everything except the case here) a nexus of the ideological conflict regarding which TFD has made his opinions abundantly clear.Given that even editors generally supporting TFD here describe his AE request requesting I be banned permanently as "frivolous," I would advocate that some measure of WP:BOOMERANG may apply to discourage such frivolous acts in the future. 23:47, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment to T. CanensPerhaps the picture was not required, but clearly my edit requesting the TFD contribute constructively or otherwise he's just trolling [for conflict] was justified given entire TFD's history at the article from the inception of his involvement there painting out someone who has never been associated with Nazism as a Nazi, a defector, a supporter of war criminals—and his immediately advocating to have me permanently banned. So, "my edits also problematic" is a problem for me. I'm not the one using WP to
WP:ADVOCATE that someone is a Nazi who has never been described as such, anywhere, any time, by any individual EXCEPT on Wikipedia. What I see developing here is a continuing license to defame anyone of Eastern European extraction as a Nazi with zero consequences. The length of the discussion here is symptomatic. If you deal with the issue we won't need to deal with this again. If you believe that my accusing TFD of trolling given his history at the article was completely unwarranted, feel free to block me for incivility for an appropriate period, but do not contend that we were both equally to blame for something. That would be the true incivility. So, my question to you is, is Wikipedia a civil society, or not?
PЄTЄRS Statement by Hodja NasreddinI wonder who is going to work at this noticeboard? Even one of the most experienced wikipedia administrators has a trouble. Looking at this, I would like to make only one suggestion. Please do not divide this project participants to "us" and "them", "right-wing" and "left-wing" (everyone has POVs, maybe even administrators), or "involved" "tag-teamers" and "uninvolved" "neutral" editors. At least two editors in "uninvolved" section are heavily involved, but discussing this would be extremely unproductive. It does not matter if someone was "involved" or "uninvolved". It only matters if one contributes positively to discussion. Only administrators suppose to be uninvolved to rule on the sanctions. Yes, they are uninvolved (according to the case: "an administrator will be considered "uninvolved" if he or she is not engaged in a current, direct, personal conflict on the topic with the user receiving sanctions. Enforcing the provisions of this decision will not be considered to be participation in a dispute.".) Hodja Nasreddin ( talk) 17:13, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion about the appeal by The Four Deuces
TFD requested the treatment he himself is being given. The current ArbCom work on AE seems to back Fred Bauder here entirely. What I find most problematic is the aggressive battleground sort of wording. Collect ( talk) 13:13, 30 April 2011 (UTC) (Note: this section previously stated "uninvolved editors" and in the matter at hand I am "uninvolved") Collect ( talk) 15:22, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
If I understand Fred Bauder's statement right, TFD got topic banned because he discussed in an article's talk page about the possible association between a member of the Australian Liberal Party and Nazism and, moreover, he brought a source to back this assertion. Did the powers bestowed upon admins extend so that they can unilaterally asses sources as unreliable (despite the lack of evident signs to point to that conclusion) and censure editors because they cite a source that the admin personally finds unacceptable? Anonimu ( talk) 15:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
To everybody: please respect the rules of this page and keep this section for truly uninvolved voices. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
-- Termer ( talk) 23:00, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
TFD's apologia saying he is a neutral editor on conservatives and communists alike is slightly belied by [49] I cannot think of a title but I can think of a description: mass killings of opposition and indigneneous people upon the pretext that they are part of an international communist conspiracy and also Really there have never been "mass killings of Communists" just mass killings of people with the excuse that they were "Communists". So the last title was better, if imperfect. It is like calling Salem "mass killing of witches". [50] shows more battleground mentality. [51] The reason we only have this mass killings article is that the article was original created by User talk:Joklolk who has been permanently banned as a troll, and called "Communist genocide". And on and on and on. [52] he appears to call deaths in Hungary in 1956 It seems to be more an act of war or counter-insurgency, and the scale was too small. The article does not explain that the connection between Communism and mass killings is a fringe theory, as explained in many peer-reviewed artcles, none of which are included in the article [53]. And also So basically the article is not supported by any sources and represents a far right view of history. There have been a number of attempts by the far right to create articles, including one about how the Jews control Hollywood. The argument they presented was that since some people believe that the Jews control Hollywood there is a controversy meriting a separate article. Fortunately the inherent bias and anti-Semitism of that article was obvious and it was deleted. Unfortunately the inherent far right racist and anti-Semitic bias of this article is less obvious, which is why it has not been deleted. Showing that TFD has a clear-cut battleground attitude on articles which do connect with Digwuren. We have, unfortunately, evidence from many other articles as well showing this, and his protestations to the contrary are belied. I had not wished to add this, but his apologia was entirely too disingenuous. Collect ( talk) 14:58, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
@Stephen Schulz, the examples supra show the Digwuren connection clearly. TFD has sought repeatedly to remove any material even hinting that minorities may have been killed by the Soviets at two articles now clearly marked ( Communist terrorism and Mass killings under Communist regimes) as now being under Digwuren. He has previously been warned (and appealed the warning!). The use of SPI and AE complaints etc. is directly associated with the warnings and Digwuren. He is here substantially because he has abused the AE process multiple times etc. He has exhibited massive interest in the article talk pages (1113 edits for a single article talk page does seem a bit excessive, to say the least). Need more? Collect ( talk) 19:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Ed Johnston wrote" I think that the case might be closed if The Four Deuces will make some assurances about his future behavior. I've left a note on his talk page to see if he will consider that. EdJohnston (talk) 21:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC) in [60] and later It is not clear to me whether TFD will refrain from harsh criticism of perceived opponents in the future, but the data which has been gathered could serve as background for future sanctions if the problem continues. In [61] [hide]The Four Deuces is warned, outside of Wikipedia:DIGWUREN#Discretionary_sanctions, for an inappropriate edit summary. --Mkativerata (talk) Sandstein states invite The Four Deuces to give reasons why he should not himself be sanctioned for slow-motion editwarring as per the diffs provided by Tentontunic (I note that the most recent revert. In [62]. [63] has Sandstein saying Recommending closure with a warning to Tentontunic The Four Deuces not to make invalid AE requests. Sandstein 20:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC). IOW, TFD has dodged at least three bullets for his routine incivility. Collect ( talk) 01:52, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Request and Commentary by jd2718Request: I am preparing a comment, and trying to sift through both the DIGWUREN decision, the scores of enforcement actions, and the diffs provided here. I understand that there are several years of conflict, but I am certain that I am interested in current behavior rather than bad interaction or behavior from 2009, and actually find the old diffs make it harder to sort through what's going on. I assume other uninvolved editors may feel similarly. Would editors bear this in mind as they choose how far back to document their claims? Thank you. Jd2718 ( talk) 00:26, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
@jd2718 The recent edit by TFD [65] cannot be taken in isolation, but is part of an ongoing pattern of an ideological struggle articulated as opposing " The political implications in Eastern Europe have been to rehabilitate Nazi collaborators, villianize the Jews whom they connect with Communism and encourage discrimination against Russians living in their countries". jd2718 is correct in stating this recent edit [66] trolled Estonian-sympathetic editors. For some reason TFD thinks this idelogical goal is best served in trolling the article Lia Looveer, why that article and not some other? Well apparently he believes that a Wikipedian is connected to Lia Looveer [67], so the implication of this trolling is clear. Almost the entire talk page is filled with this type of trolling. It is tiresome and it is offensive, so much so that Looveer's son felt compelled to comment during the AfD discussion [68]. While TFD may think he is just carrying on some kind of ideological struggle, his actions do impact real people. The very fact that TFD has focused his ideological struggle this and related articles is itself an insinuation that Estonia-sympathic editors are engaged in "rehabilitate Nazi collaborators, villianize the Jews whom they connect with Communism and encourage discrimination against Russians living in their countries". TFD has already been cautioned numerous times, the last time TFD would have received a three month topic ban, but promised he will avoid implied slurs against people and groups in the future. -- Martin ( talk) 21:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Rsp to T CanensTFD purposely trolled the talk page of Lia Looveer to slur this person through association with alleged war criminals to apparently invoke a reaction, thus reporting that person to AE seeking an indefinite block. While these specific sources mention Looveer in regard to her capacity as secretary (and thus sometimes referencing her minutes) of various ethnic councils and committees within the Liberal Party of Australia, and as such in her role as secretary she came in contact with a wide variety of people, none of these sources explicitly claim any complicity or support by Looveer of those individuals exposed as alleged war criminals nor sympathy for Nazism. Yet these sources were used to imply, insinuate and synthesise such support or sympathy existed [70]. Now taken together with past tendentious misrepresentation of sources such as:
This demonstrates a continuing pattern of battleground behaviour which seems related to an ideological struggle within Wikipedia against what he sees as " The political implications in Eastern Europe have been to rehabilitate Nazi collaborators, villianize the Jews whom they connect with Communism and encourage discrimination against Russians living in their countries." The other manifestation of this struggle is TFD's recent accusation against myself (and subsequently an Estonian professor) of right wing extremist ethnic nationalist POV [73], [74]. TFD would have received a three month topic ban, but promised he will avoid implied slurs against others (and against large groups of people) on contentious talk pages in the future. Unfortunately TFD continued to slur Lia Looveer by association with this , hence Fred's action. -- Martin ( talk) 12:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
@ T CanensTFD has been given at least four Digwuren warnings. He appealed (unsuccessfully) his being added to the Digwuren notification list. He has filed several AE actions based specifically on Digwuren, including the one which led to this action wherein he asked for an indefinite block of another editor. He has had several of his AE requests closed with notice that they were frivolous and that he faced substantial sanctions if he continued to file them (see above where Sandstein, Ed Johnston, and Mkativerata opinined in such matters, among others). He has dodged multiple bullets in the past. It is quite unlikely that he was not aware this could happen, considering the statements by those admins in the past, and his own seeking of blocks and bans of any whom he has had disputes with - including on the order of a hundred accused by him of being "socks" without any actual evidence. ArbCom showed concern about a 20% "false positive" rate on Scibaby SPIs. This false positive rates is vastly worse. I trust this summarizes adequately the fact that he was aware of the sanctions and warnings, and has been treated leniently thus far. Collect ( talk) 09:25, 3 May 2011 (UTC) Regarding sock accusations: [80] 11 IPs. [81] 5 insufficient evidence cases 16 Apr 2010. 26 Jan 2011 1 "no evidence" case. [82] 8 bad accusations. [83] 2 accused. [84] 20 Apr 2010 - 2 innocents. 25 September - 3 innocents. [85] another 3. [86] another 2. [87] 1 more. In short - 65 of his accusations failed. I think that represents a substantial number, in point of fact. I am not counting ones where later accusations by others actually had real evidence. It is possible that any sanctions might well include all noticeboard accusation sanctions rather than a limited topic ban. Collect ( talk) 12:26, 3 May 2011 (UTC) AE requests: [88] "insufficient evidence" per HJ Mitchell. [89] "[hide]No action against individual editors, but the article is placed under additional restrictions instead" [90] clear. [91] no action taken in response to TFD's call for "User:Martintg is topic-banned from topics related to Eastern Europe." For Eastern Europe connection see [92] You also claim the articles say "two of the subjects were unsuccessfully prosecuted for actions at a demonstration while the third was denied entry to Estonia.". That is not true, they were not prosecuted for actions at a demonstration - as stated in the articles, they were arrested on charges of organizing mass riots etc. showing TFD having a clear connection directly with Digwuren topics. Also note Martintg has also recently edited Communist terrorism and participated in discussions on the talk page. A request for clarification has decided that this article comes under the Eastern European topic ban. TFD (talk) 16:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC) indicating further that TFD was "aware" of the Digwuren applicability to behaviour. TFD seeking to ban an editor at [93] and so on. His "clean block log" is a miracle of the first water. Collect ( talk) 12:26, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
@T Canens. Not requiring the "same standard" but a question of "no evidence at all" - other than (for registered editors) disagreeing with him on article talk pages. Very few editors have anywhere near as poor a level of positive results as TFD has. Collect ( talk) 18:32, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
@ Fred Bauder, Stephan SchulzFred, TFD certainly must by now be aware of remedy 8 of WP:DIGWUREN, having had two prior complaints brought against him on precisely that basis here and here. The first case was deemed outside the scope of WP:DIGWUREN but he was formally warned in any case [97], the second case he would have received a three month topic ban but apologised at the 11th hour, there by escaping sanction. Stephan, it isn't like we are discussing the imposition of a permanent site ban, but a limited topic ban which wouldn't impact his main area of interest but restrict him from a small area where he hasn't contributed anything other than disruptive soapboxing, trolling and generally creating a battleground. Fred Bauder was one of the Arbitrators who heard the original WP:DIGWUREN case and helped draft the remedies, I think he if anyone, would have a fair idea of whether or not TFD crossed the line. Discretionary sanctions apply to an area "defined as articles which relate to Eastern Europe, "broadly interpreted". The wider issue here is that TFD's trollish edits had a polarising effect, with others joining the fray [98]. I think our right not to be continually offended by TFD's battleground behaviour outweighs his right to edit a small topic area that is not his main area of interest. -- Martin ( talk) 21:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC) Lia Looveer falls within the scope of "Eastern Europe"Stephan Schulz questions whether Lia Looveer even falls within "Eastern Europe". Well TFD explicitly asked the ArbCom to rule on specific articles as "Eastern European" here. TFD actually asked if Lia Looveer was covered in the scope of "Eastern Europe". The ArbCom ultimatetly agreed with Arb Steve Smith's view "It is my view that a wide construction of the ban's scope, as prescribed in the remedies, would include all of the articles mentioned". This clarification was used as the basis of putting Mass killings under Communist regimes under a WP:DIGWUREN sanction. So there is no question that Lia Looveer also falls within the same scope. -- Martin ( talk) 01:12, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Four Deuces
Comment. With respect, Fred Bauder should not be commenting in the "uninvolved administrators" section. Please could he move his comments to his own section? Thanks, Mathsci ( talk) 19:45, 3 May 2011 (UTC) Result of the appeal by The Four Deuces
Warning
TFD's appeal at AEFrom my talk page: It appears that this discussion has run out of gas. So far, two reviewing admins have expressed disagreement with the ban, and none were in favor. Do you want to lift your ban, or propose something different? Incidentally thank you for participating at AE. All former arbitrators are welcome :-). EdJohnston ( talk) 15:29, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Closing:
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| Volunteer Marek warned for incivility. No other action. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:30, 12 May 2011 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Request concerning Volunteer Marek
Note: I'm aware that these diffs are spread over a long period, and that some of the older ones (especially the first one) ordinarily could be considered stale. However, what I'm trying to demonstrate is that Volunteer Marek's incivility and assumptions of bad faith have been an ongoing problem since he became involved in these articles around a month ago, and I think the only way to demonstrate this is with diffs spread over a long period.
It might be helpful for admins to read some of the discussions that Volunteer Marek has been involved in on the talk page of the race and intelligence article. Apart from his incivility, there has been a lot of discussion there about his disregard for the WP:BRD process. When he makes a change to the article with which others disagree, and which is reverted, instead of waiting to discuss it with other editors he immediately reinstates it. For example: [106] and then [107], or [108] and then [109] Volunteer Marek explained in diff #6 above why he does not think he needs to engage in discussion with the editors who disagree with him before reinstating his changes: he disregards our opinions because we haven't been registered for long enough. When I linked him to WP:REVERTING to try and show him that it goes against normal BRD process for him to reinstate changes that have been reverted without waiting for discussion, his response was that he ignores this essay because it was "written by what looks like a clueless naive 12 year old." By constantly harping on the fact that I (and a few other editors who disagree with him) registered within a few months after the R&I arbitration case, and saying that this discounts our opinions and entitles him to reinstate his changes if we revert them, Volunteer Marek is implying that he thinks we're sockpuppets. If we weren't sockpuppets, how long we've been registered wouldn't be a valid reason for him to do this. Marek could start an SPI if he really believes this, but he's never done so. Instead, he's responded by belittling the editors who disagree with him, and reinstating his changes when we revert them. This makes working collaboratively with him almost impossible. As linked above, in August Sandstein warned and then blocked Volunteer Marek aka Radeskz for similar behavior. Quoting Sandstein's explanation for the block: "As Russavia's statement correctly notes, the request is additionally disruptive in that it makes veiled allegations of what sounds like serious misconduct on the part of Russavia ("I'm pretty sure something else is going on here which I do not care to discuss on Wiki") without offering any (onwiki) evidence. This is a serious problem given that the Committee, at WP:EEML#Improper coordination and WP:EEML#Radeksz, found that Radeksz has previously been engaged in similar misconduct, and that I yesterday warned Radeksz not to make serious allegations against others without useful evidence." Volunteer Marek's veiled accusation that everyone who disagrees with him on these articles are sockpuppets seems to be a continuation of the same behavior for which Sandstein blocked him.
Two main points for now:
In light of the history of this topic area, I can somewhat understand suspicion about new editors. That said, if submitting to an SPI is necessary to clear my name, then that's fine. My status as an "SPA" is due mostly due to the fact that this relates to my area of study at university, and it's a topic area that clearly could benefit from improvement. I was not aware at first that SPAs are frowned upon here and I'm still not entirely sure why they are. But given that they are, I recently received some advice from Maunus to try and edit in other topics a bit, which I intend to follow if time and interest permits. As for my knowledge about the history of this topic area and policy in general, these things are not difficult to learn by reading and researching page histories, user contributions, block logs, and the many DR processes that have taken place in this topic area, including (obviously) the big R&I arbitration case. Learning how to lay out an AE thread is pretty easy when you read the page on it and then look at the formatting and procedure for prior threads. Even so, I do not believe my editing to be tendentious. This is my area of study, but I am not socially or politically invested in the topic. I have been very careful to remain calm and civil, and I've never reverted anything more than twice in a 24-hour period. As I pointed out previously, my standpoint regarding Marek's insertion of the PF line was supported by several other seasoned, respected, non SPA-editors. If anyone can offer me specific advice for how to improve my editing or conduct, rather than just nebulous accusations of POV-pushing or tendentiousness, I will certainly listen.
Since there seems to be some suspicion about my level of experience with Wikipedia in general, I should mention that I lurked here (and sometimes edited) for a long time before creating this account. I’m a reformed former vandal. I was previously active as the IP 24.60.23.30 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and since July 2009 I used to mess around on various articles making edits that should have been in the sandbox. I didn't want to get into this because of possible outing issues, but the majority of my Wikipedia knowledge comes from a college class wherein the professor was encouraging us to learn how to use Wikipedia kind of similar to these projects WP:SUP but with less direct involvement. So I registered an account and stopped vandalizing, although until last month my roommate still occasionally used this IP for less than stellar edits. Last month I asked him to stop, so there should be no more vandalism from this IP from now on. If anyone does not believe that this IP is me, there are a few edits from it such as [113] and [114] where I meant to post from my account but forgot to log in. I did not first become active at Wikipedia in November 2010. As can be seen from the IP's contributions, I have been here since July 2009. November 2010 is when I registered an account, stopped vandalizing, and began trying to actually improve articles here. It's more than a little frustrating that this change of heart is causing more suspicion, not less. I would like to edit the topic area I know best. I am a psychology student and a radio producer in Boston, and I'd like to keep Wikipedia separate from real life. It's frankly a bit ridiculous that accusations are being leveled at me because I know how to use proper formatting etc. As I said before, if you want to start an SPI, please feel free.
I hoped this AE thread would be a fairly brief matter of getting Volunteer Marek warned for incivility. But now that it's turning into something more complicated, and Fred Bauder wants to look into whether POV-pushing has been happening, I think we also need to discuss Volunteer Marek's content editing patterns. [115] [116] [117] [118] [119] These are five edits on five different articles, in which Marek has added the same accusation against the Pioneer Fund to every article he's participated in that mentions it. I don't have any reason to doubt that the sources support this material, but adding the exact same accusation of racism to five different articles is borderline soapboxing. Additionally, although on the J. Philippe Rushton article this information is presented as criticism of Rushton (it's mentioned in the same sentence that Rushton is the fund's current president), several of these sources don't mention Rushton, or mention him only in passing without criticizing him. Using a source as criticism of a living person, when the source does not actually criticize that person, smacks of WP:SYNTHESIS. I explained this in more detail on the talk page here. With this in mind, I tried removing the sources that don't mention Rushton and changed the material to match the remaining sources that actually are criticizing him, but as usual Marek immediately reinstated his material. Marek has also added similar accusations of racism against individuals rather than institutions. [120] [121] As can be seen from their articles, Hans Eysenck and Corrado Gini are known for a lot more than racism and eugenics, but the most negative information available about them is the only information that Marek thinks is worth mentioning. In Eysenck's case, at least one other (uninvolved) person has complained to Marek about this in his user talk: [122] [123] But when there is well-sourced information defending these individuals or institutions? Marek removed that. [124] [125] I think the second edit is especially telling because this information had previously been in the article for months, and Marek's rationale for removing it was completely nonsensical. The source for the information that he removed is Ullica Segerstrale, who is a very well-respected academic, and nobody considers her "crazy." No doubt Marek could come up with an individual justification for some of these edits, but what matters is the overall pattern, and the pattern is not hard to see. The apparent purpose of Marek's involvement in this topic area is to add accusations of racism against individuals and institutions that support viewpoints he doesn't like. Also sometimes to remove sourced content that defends them or makes accusations against people with whom he agrees. The material that he adds is usually supported by the sources, but the sources are also always polemical, and as Fred Bauder pointed out, his argument for including it is generally just "it's in the book." Marek's editing looks like a mirror image of Miradre, who tried to add material defending these individuals and sometimes removed well-sourced criticism of them. The main differences are that Miradre was more civil than Marek, he was an SPA, and as Tijfo098 pointed out Miradre also made some unequivocally useful contributions in this topic area. Ultimately, Miradre's editing was judged to be tendentious enough that he was warned for it. [126] If AE ends up concluding that Miradre's behavior warranted a warning but that Marek's doesn't, it is going to cast some doubt on whether AE can neutrally enforce policy without showing favoritism toward individuals based on what their viewpoint is.
Discussion concerning Volunteer MarekStatement by Volunteer MarekSigh. Boothello has been engaged in tendentious editing related to Race and Intelligence. He has repeatedly removed well-sourced content from these article based solely on WP:IDON'TLIKEIT grounds:
(placeholder for more diffs) Out of the specific accusations provided above: 1. I get to decide which comments stay on my talk page and which don't. In this particular instance, I had just told this particular editor that I did not wish to have any interaction with him [140]. He then came and posted on my talk page. I removed it. To put it quite simply, since this is the "Race and Intelligence" topic area, there's some people that I simply do not wish to interact with because of the views they hold. I can't completely avoid that on article talk pages, but there is no reason why I need to provide my own talk page as another forum for their views. 2. Is not a personal attack directed at anyone in particular, but simply my view on this whole "stability" argument (and it is a dumb argument - I can find half a dozen Wikipedia pages that have been "stable" for a long time but which are total junk) 3-6. This is about me stating the easily verifiable fact that virtually all accounts, including Boothello, on the so-called "herediterian" side of this dispute have been started soon after the conclusion of the Race & Intelligence case, and pretty much all of them stick to editing articles related to Race and Race issues (notwithstanding a few "legitimizing" edits in other topics made once in a while to justify their presence). I will address that in a bit more detail below, but for now, just note that nowhere did I state that these guys are sock puppets. That's just Boothello's imagination - but I am not responsible for that. Honestly, I have no idea whether these are sock puppets, meat puppets or "clean starters" or even folks who just accidentally happened to start their account just as the R&I case was concluding. Please also note, that my comments here, though I was not explicit about it at the time, were also motivated by the fact that I was aware that Boothello has been canvassing some of these very accounts to intervene on the article on his behalf [141], [142]. It was soon after these canvassing posts were left on these users' pages that SightWatcher showed up. 7. This has been the tactic employed by the above accounts. When an edit they don't like is made, even if it is well cited to a reliable source, one of them removes it citing "no consensus". If someone else restores the edit, then they cycle through and revert always claiming "no consensus". No matter what is said, what kind of argument is made, what kind of sources are provided it's always "no consenus". There isn't a chance at all that they will agree to any kind of edit that is critical of the herediterian view which holds that Blacks are just naturally, genetically, dumber than Whites on these articles. So there's always "no consensus", even if the text being added is cited to very reliable sources. 8. Note that Boothello was actually the first person to use the designation "nonsense" in a bad faith misrepresentation of my edits. I stated that he should not remove text cited to reliable sources. He replied "oh so you're saying that you can add any old nonsense to the article you want". See the problem with that line of argument? He then said that I was saying that "all herediterians have connections with the Pioneer Fund" (a racist organization). This is false - what I said was that all the people listed in the lede had connections with the Pioneer Fund, which they did (and the source specifically discussed their affiliation with the organization). So he was misrepresenting what I was saying. For like a third or fourth time in the row. My patience was running thin, true - but there's no incivility in my post. (I also suggest reading the first diff provided here, which describes the situation quite well I think) Response to "additional comments"
R/I Case and new SPA accounts The Race and Intelligence Arbitration Case ended at the end of August, 2010 [143]
There are also several other users/accounts which had also been created shortly after the ArbCom R/I case and which have edited pretty much R/I articles but since they are not mentioned in this report above I do not think it's necessary to bring them into this. Of the above, Boothello and Miradre were in fact created soon after the conclusion of the ArbCom case and do edit exclusively on Race/Intelligence topics. SightWatcher was also created soon after the conclusion of the ArbCom case. He actually edits in two areas - films and Race/Intelligence, but his connection to this particular topic area is well known. The other two users are of more recent vintage but are also focused exclusively on R/I topics with the same POV as others. Hence my characterization above was pretty much correct. Note, again, I did not say that any of these were sock puppets. I'm not a checkuser so I have no way of knowing. They could be. They could be meat puppets. They could be new recruits resulting from the ArbCom case itself. They could be "clean starters" - users who had not been sanctioned but who abandoned their old accounts to have a "clean start" (perfectly within policy ... unless same old conflicts arise). I guess there is a chance that one account was just accidentally created at this particular time. But the probability that all of these, or even just those 3, accounts were created just as the R/I case closed simply by coincidence is very very low. (If the probability of a single new account appearing at this particular time is, say, 25% (which would be HUGE - more like 5%), then the probability that all three appeared at this particular time would be only 1.56%). It is what it is and there's no sense of Boothello trying to shoot the messenger here. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 06:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Please also see this discussion [148] and specifically these comments by Shell Kinney [149] [150] as they relate to the incidence of meat puppetry in this area. In fact, Shell stated in regard to some of the known meat-puppets in this area: They've not been blocked because we want to give them a chance to become editors in their own right... but if they continue with their disputes or other issues in the topic area, they will be banned from the topic area as well. Best I can make out from the discussion, this statement applies to SightWatcher in particular - who obviously "continues with the disputes or other issues in the topic area" - but probably also other editors of that kind. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 07:55, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Response to Fred All books and sources have a POV, that's never been (nor should it be) a criteria for inclusion. The criteria is whether or not a source is reliable, which here, it is. Also, it's pretty common knowledge within the field that the people listed in the text are all associated with the Pioneer Fund. For each individual a half dozen sources - many "less POV" then this one you're objecting to - could be found. The source I used in particular had the advantage of discussing ALL of these individuals in one place simultaneously. So by using it I was making sure that nobody tries to accuse me of violating WP:SYNTH. I would also like to point out that I was quite amenable to different wording and, of course, to the inclusion of other non-PF names into the text. At the same time, there is a group of researchers who are associated with an organization that has been often been labeled as "racist", this is an article on "Race and Intelligence", some of the editors involved often try to pass of the works of these researchers as reliable or outright promote them on Wikipedia - for all these reasons, the association of these individuals with PF is a very important piece of info. But this is something to be discussed on the talk page of the article not here. The new SPA accounts which took over right where the editors who got banned in the R&I case left off have been shown lots and lots of patience. Some of them have admitted to having edited before, while others were shown to be meat puppets of banned editors (see the AN/I thread I linked to above, as well as Shell's comment). I do think that if articles in this area are ever going to be cleaned up, or at least, cleaned up before they end up making Wikipedia look like a laughing stock and a forum for scientific racism, then, yes, a bit of boldness is needed. Allow me to point out that boldness, and being critical, is not the same as incivility which is the basis for this report, but which I did not engage in. Oh yeah, I might as well point out that technically, I was never notified of the R&I discretionary sanctions, but, you know what, I'm not gonna Wikilawyer that. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 09:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Response to Boothello's second statement
And to the third I see that I'm gonna have to waste more of my time responding to Boothello's spurious accusations. Let's see...
As it may be apparent from my statement above, I consider Boothello's newest batch of accusations to be extremely manipulative, misrepresentative, false and in a few places seemingly purposefully so. Below Fred suggested filing an AE report on other editors so that their behavior can be examined. Since I think these kind of tactics are fairly representative of Boothello's general behavior in this topic area, my response above, along with other evidence, can very well be made into an AE report, unless, per BorisG, this is dealt with here. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 07:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Volunteer MarekComments by PiotrusI find it very curious that Boothello ( talk · contribs), an account with <500 edits that begun editing only half a year ago (November 7, 2010) is displaying such an extensive knowledge of our our DR/AE policies to be able to fill in such a detailed report, worthy of an experienced Wikipedian. I see that up till now he has only commented on AE once, and did not comment in any other Wikipedia namespace other than two AfDs. The user has never commented in the Wikipedia talk namespace. His user talk namespace interactions are very limited, dating only to this April, and numbering <20 edits. Despite that, Boothello reports has diffs, links, uses WP:ABBREVIATIONS, templates (user), and shows he understand DR well enough to research and present history of sanctions against a user who has had a (sanctioned) name change. I am not familiar with the Race and Intelligence case, but I'd strongly advise the admins to investigate this as a SPI sock; ditto for QuintupleTwist ( talk · contribs) ( WP:DUCK/ WP:SPADE is quite loud here). At the same time, I'd advise VM to be less forthcoming with accusing others of being SPIs on regular discussion pages. If concerns arise, I'd suggest bringing them to a DR forum and/or consulting with admin who knows how to handle SPIs first. Commenting on a talk page does little rather than inflame the situation and give ammunition to the culprits, who can (as here) try to claim they have been "personally attacked" (by being called for what they are...but in the wrong place...sigh). Per DUCK/SPADE, I'd hope that admins here would focus on taking care of the ban-evading SPIs rather than shooting the messenger. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:36, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Comments by aprockI think the most discouraging aspect of this case is the mention of sloth and laziness. The enforcement of disruptive behavior evidenced by egregious policy violations has never been a serious problem. Obvious problem editors are handled properly and effectively. The problem is that this topic is plagued by WP:CPUSH editors. This has generally taken the form of non-neutral single purpose editors who advocate for promoting their own viewpoint through the misuse of sources. While edit warring is one tactic taken by these editors, the more problematic behavior is the persistent pov pushing and incessant over emphasis on controversial sources. I appreciate that actually going to the talk page to review the behavior of all parties requires a non-trivial amount of time and energy, but when faced with the problem of civil pov pushing WP:CPUSH, simple diffs are not going to be sufficient to communicate the extent of disruption. In that vein, instead of offering diffs, I suggest that any admin wishing to review the situation read the talk page at Race and intelligence, specifically:
I realize that's a fair amount of reading to undertake. But that's one aspect of civil pov pushing. By creating mountains of discussion without moving forward in a collaborative way, ignoring policy, and ignoring editors, disruption can be cloaked. When I have a chance, I'll go back and give a brief summary of all the sections above to at least aid in separating some of the signal and noise. Note, that there are a lot of editors that participated in the above discussions. I think the behavior of all participating editors, including myself, should be scrutinized, and that any disruptive behavior handled appropriately. aprock ( talk) 21:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Comment by VecrumbaThe R&I articles have long been an area of contention. I have not been active there for a while, however, generally speaking my participation there was seen as thoughtful and constructive. I regret that looking at Boothello's edit history and command of WP:ALPHABETSOUP they appear to be someone returning to R&I under a new persona, and the attempt to control content through AE requests points, equally, to a veteran of past R&I conflicts.
PЄTЄRS Comment by Fred BauderThe discussion on the talk page, Talk:Race_and_intelligence#all_of_them_ARE_in_fact_associated_with_PF of the disputed edit seems quite incomplete in that a number of obvious alternatives were not discussed. The title, "all of them ARE in fact associated with PF", chosen by Volunteer Marek, is quite argumentative so the conversation kind of gets off on the wrong foot. The source, The race gallery: the return of racial science, obviously has a debunking point of view which seeks to characterize research in this area and link it to discredited ideology. These and other considerations, such as Pioneer Fund being the source of most funding for research could all be considered with respect to how to characterize the role of Pioneer Fund and those associated with it and the research and researchers it has funded. Volunteer Marek is not being very patient and seems unwilling to consider alternatives. He is presumably correct that the material is in a book, but it is a POV book, thus raising questions about how to handle the sourced "fact" which need to be discussed patiently and at length, not short-circuited by a simple assertion that "It's in the book". Editing in an emotionally and politically charged area such as race and intelligence may require more patience than Volunteer Marek has and a topic ban might be appropriate it that is, in fact, found to be the case. User:Fred Bauder Talk 09:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC) I'm not a fan of simply removing a sourced reference either, on the ground that there is no "consensus"; the last I heard reality is not determined by consensus. The role of the Pioneer Fund seems significant and some researchers are associated with it; the question is how to integrate that sourced information into the article in an appropriate way; for example, in a section rather than in the lead, or with qualifying language such as many researchers are associated with or funded by the Pioneer Fund. Bottom line, it's not black and white and if someone can't get beyond black and white thinking they probably should not be trying to edit the article. User:Fred Bauder Talk 09:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Template:Race and intelligence talk page notice is at the top of Talk:Race_and_intelligence. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:21, 7 May 2011 (UTC) However it is possible you have not received a proper warning as required by Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Warnings. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) If there are meatpuppetss and SPAs that needs to be dealt with here, not by adopting an ugly attitude. Reasonable courtesy and good faith is required by the specific terms of the arbitration decision. Being unable to definitely link new accounts to the accounts banned from the topic by the arbitration decision is not a barrier to enforcing those bans on new SPA accounts, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Regarding_Ted_Kennedy#Sockpuppets. Hard as may be to maintain it, a user needs to have sufficient faith in administrators' integrity to bring problems up here, not take an attitude that nothing will be done. Engaging in aggressive behavior with the excuse that nothing has been done or would be done when you yourself have done nothing is not acceptable. If you think there are special purpose accounts who are or should be subject to the topic bans imposed on this area bring it up here. Each individual account should receive a warning regarding aggressive tendentious editing in this area by special purpose accounts. User:Fred Bauder Talk 13:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle is an essay, not policy. No one is obligated to "respect" it or conform to it. However, when someone is encountered who thinks it's a good way to proceed, it may be wise to try it out. It may work well with them. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:03, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Discussion concerning BoothelloBoothello ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) began editing November 8, 2010, a few months after the decision in the arbitration case was finalized. His first few edits, all in areas related to race are wikignomish but display a sophisticated knowledge of simply Wikipedia templates. Obviously the account is an alternative account of an experienced Wikipedia editor. 02:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC) If Boothello's explanation of the sudden appearance of his account is accepted the question remains as to whether edits by Boothello have been so disruptive that standard discretionary sanctions should be applied, see Wikipedia:ARBR&I#Case_amendments. I think analysis of their editing patter viewed a whole is required. But perhaps I making too much work out of it. Some egregious examples of POV or disruptive editing might settle the matter. User:Fred Bauder Talk 11:28, 8 May 2011 (UTC) Edits in November 2010 show knowledge of subject [158] and of pro-relationship literature [159] and a measure of sympathy for a pro user who was edit warring a bit, [160] and banned for it as a sock, User:BT35. User:Fred Bauder Talk 01:34, 11 May 2011 (UTC) Comment by BorisG@Fred: I am not sure filing of separate cases is necessary. There is a warning at the top of this page that if you come here with unclean hands you will bear the consequencies, and that the record of ALL parties will be scrutinised. Thus the record of Boothello can and should be scrutinised here and now. Third parties can be handled separately. I suggest to VM to submit, at the bottom of his statement, a concise evidence regarding Boothello to be examined by admins. Not necessarily by Fred. Does this make sense? - BorisG ( talk) 04:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC) @Boothello: your latest statement about your prior history just confirms that suspicions of your past involvement with Wikipedia were not unfounded. I know nothing about this topic and its history, and so cannot judge whether this clears up your entire story (though you do sound convincing). But given your own admitted history, filing a case against an established editor on the grounds of borderline incivility does not seem like a wise move. Rather it looks like an attempt to solve a content dispute by banning an opposing editor. While VM could indeed be advised to be more careful with summary allegations, you don't show yourself in a good light, in my view. - BorisG ( talk) 05:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC) Discussion concerning other accounts that Volunteer Marek alleges are editing disruptivelyUntil specific allegations have been made and notification made comment is inappropriate.
Comments by Mathsci
Result concerning Volunteer Marek
Proposed result, please commentVolunteer Marek ( talk · contribs) is warned that he may be banned from editing with respect to the topic of race and intelligence if he fails to extend good faith and reasonable courtesy to others who edit with relationship to that topic. He is required to bring complaints about alleged special purpose accounts or established accounts who he feels are engaged in aggressive tendentious editing the topic of race and intelligence which violate the decision in Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race_and_intelligence#Remedies to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement or some other appropriate forum. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:12, 7 May 2011 (UTC) From my talk page: Disappointed: You know, Fred, I always thought you were one of the more clear minded and big picture guys around here, but this is disappointing. You are picking up on a good editor, and ignoring the SPI/sock issues. This is very much "lets focus on the letter of the policies and ignore their spirit and the good of the project" bureaucratic attitude ("I don't care if you discovered a terrorist nuclear plot, you filled in the wrong form to report this and you'll be fined for that") that I did not expect from you :( -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
More from my talk page:
OK, he lists "R/I Case and new SPA accounts" The Race and Intelligence Arbitration Case ended at the end of August, 2010 [167]
Each of these should be carefully investigated and appropriate action taken. However, it will take a while as each of these accounts are entitled to a fair hearing. A request for arbitration enforcement may be made by Volunteer Marek for each of the accused accounts. In other words Volunteer Marek, or any other concerned editor, shall make the request on this page, notify them individually, and present evidence of any improper editing behavior by each ip or user. If there is evidence of tag team editing a request may also be made with respect to the team. User:Fred Bauder Talk 21:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Closing:
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