Not actionable. AE does not resolve content disputes. |
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Request concerning Wikifan12345
Discussion concerning Wikifan12345Statement by Wikifan12345Unomi, what edits do you see to be problematic? I really haven't been paying much attention to this issue and you were never specific in your dispute. Can you link the edits on the article that you wish to be reverted? I was never trying to be "evasive" and I don't see how I was "stonewalling." What am I avoiding? Seriously? Does this even qualify as for ArbCom? Wikifan12345 ( talk) 12:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Wikifan12345Comment by SandsteinProcedural remark: the sanctions remedy provides that "Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines." There is currently no diff in the request that shows that Wikifan12345 has received a warning that meets these requirements. If no such diff is provided, this request will not result in sanctions. Sandstein 12:38, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I like to know if Wikifan is or was under some editing or mentoring restrictions. I remember an AN/I discussion quite some time ago, where Wikifan was community banned. I was one of the few editors (perhaps the only one) to suggest that we should try harder keep Wikifan at Wikipedia and try some mentoring. What has happened since that time? Count Iblis ( talk) 14:14, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The Jewish Virtual Library has quite a few articles that link to it. See [12] It is an encyclopedic source which is appropriate for WP. Stellarkid ( talk) 19:28, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Wikifan12345
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Quzeyli ( talk · contribs) blocked for 24 hours for edit warring and warned by NuclearWarfare ( talk · contribs). |
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Request concerning Quzeyli
Sardur ( talk) 21:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Mcnabs ( talk) 22:44, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning QuzeyliStatement by QuzeyliComments by others about the request concerning QuzeyliResult concerning Quzeyli
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Not actionable. | ||
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Request concerning Nableezy
Nableezy is trying to bully me here into editing for him by threatening to report me (even prepared an ANI to make the message to me stronger here: User:Nableezy/S) for allegedly violating 3RR [19]. Nableezy has recently been handed a 1R/page and cannot revert my edit addition (incidentally, not revert) which has a precedent and consensus on at least one page where I got the idea from and where it passed consensus there in order to remedy the political issue of the location and countries. This is a content issue that he should be settled on the discussion page of the college article and not come to hound me on my talk page.
Discussion concerning NableezyStatement by NableezyI wasnt skirting a 1rr rule, that [last edit wasnt even a revert. It was an attempt at a compromise where the text neither says "occupied Golan Heights" or "Golan Heights, Israel" (something that was suggested at the NPOV/N at a thread I opened). I asked Shuki if he or she would rather I skip filing an AE request and try to work out the content issue without his or her mindlessly reverting everything. I see now I should not have been polite and just filed the request. Below is the AE thread I had prepared regarding Shuki's recent actions which have actually been disruptive. Shuki has repeatedly edit warred to maintain a fringe view as gospel truth in a number of articles:
I have made exactly one revert to the page total, not just in 24 hours. That one revert is this. The next edit I made was not a revert, that was a compromise edit suggested at the NPOV noticeboard that does not include either of the disputed phrasing, "occupied Golan Heights" or "Golan Heights, Israel". Shuki edit-warred to maintain a phrasing that represents an extreme minority POV, that the Golan is in Israel. I made one revert of that material. That I prepared an AE request in my userspace on Shuki (collapsed above) is not harassment nor is it a legal threat. That I asked Shuki if he or she would rather I not file that report and instead of continually reverting is also not a legal threat nor is it harassment. This report is based on Shuki edit-warring to maintain a fringe view as fact and being upset that I called him or her out on it. nableezy - 05:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy
Nableezys attempt at resolving this on the talk page while making it clear that shukis case is weak seems to be a superior solution to edit warring. If anything Nableezy should be commended for not starting the AE before Shuki had a final chance to correct himself. Unomi ( talk) 00:53, 2 April 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Nableezy
I do not see how mentioning this draft AE report on Shuki's talk page and the single revert cited can be considered disruptive, let alone warrant sanctions. It is on the contrary good practice to seek a solution through discussion before making AE requests, so showing this draft report to Shuki is commendable. Unless other admins disagree, I'll close this report without action and remind Shuki that AE is not a weapon to be employed against people with whom one disagrees. Any serious concerns about Shuki's editing should not be discussed here but be made the subject of a separate request if necessary. Sandstein 05:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
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Supreme Deliciousness ( talk · contribs), Vexorg ( talk · contribs) and NickCT ( talk · contribs) warned; no action at this time. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT
Discussion concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCTStatement by User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT
Comments by others about the request concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT
Here are few more differences to support my claim about Vexorg
More differences could be provided by request.The user is not very harmful, mostly just annoying.-- Mbz1 ( talk) 01:25, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning User:Supreme Deliciousness, User:Vexorg, User:NickCT
See the administrator discussion with respect to the request concerning Gatoclass. Supreme Deliciousness, Vexorg and NickCT are strongly warned not to continue to engage in battleground-like conduct. No action is taken at this time, without prejudice to possible sanctions in the context of a more systematic review of recent Israel/Palestine-related disruption. Sandstein 05:29, 3 April 2010 (UTC) |
Mbz1 ( talk · contribs) topic-banned for three months. Brewcrewer ( talk · contribs) warned. Gatoclass ( talk · contribs) advised. |
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Request concerning User:Gatoclass
The article in question is Maimonides Synagogue. Gatoclass is an administrator, who has the say on the articles DYK nominations. The first difference I provided, in which the user claims "Practically every paragraph contains some instance of Muslims "attacking" Jews, none of it with any context whatever" is more than enough to kill the nomination. Please read the article. There are no any place describing Muslims attacking Jews, except the one instance that happened 800 years ago, when Bedouins tried to attack a burial procession of Maimonides, but stopped, when they learned whose burial procession it was. Each and every statement of the article is well sourced. In the second and the third differences the user makes a claim about his own sources, and removes well sourced info because of those mystical sources. The last two differences were provided to show the user language towards Israel and Zionists. The user is very involved with the subject, much more involved than an admin could allow himself to be involved. IMO the user should be banned on influencing DYK decisions on the articles with his more than unfair claims and POV. The administrators, who have much more power than regular users do have to be neutral. As it is shown by the differences I provided Gatoclass is not netural at all.Here are few differences of administrator Dravecky about Gatoclass conduct for my DYK nomination after the user deleted "promoted" nomination altogether without notifying me:
-- Mbz1 ( talk) 14:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC) }} Discussion concerning GatoclassStatement by GatoclassWell I'm very sorry Mbz has seen fit to do this, and I don't believe this request has any substance. This all began when I opposed the promotion of Mbz's article Robert Kennedy in Palestine (1948) at DYK. After the article was nominated at AfD (not by me), I left a !vote that described the article as a "POV rant". I do agree that the word "rant" was an unfortunate choice, in my defence it was late, I was very tired, and I had also been dealing with some POV-pushing on other pages (in an unrelated topic area) over the previous couple of days and was feeling quite exasperated. However, I also struck the comment as soon as Mbz complained - but rather than accept that amendment in good faith as an isolated error of judgement, Mbz has continued to hound me about it, to the point that he has now seen fit to open this enforcement request. Mbz did not accept the judgement at DYK - not rendered by me alone, but by a number of the other regulars, not to mention the 17 or so who voted against the article at AfD - that the article was POV or in other ways unencyclopedic, and therefore unsuitable for the main page - leaving melodramatic complaints at my talk page and trying on several occasions to get the nom revived. Obviously, he wasn't at all reconciled with the result. Now in the last day or two, Mbz has submitted a new article at DYK, called Maimonides Synagogue. After this article was brought to my attention by another user complaining about Mbz deleting criticism of the article at T:TDYK, a deletion that violates our conventions and that is clearly COI, I decided to check the nom myself. Again, like the Robert Kennedy article, I found it to be quite heavily POV and WP:COATRACK-ish, with a great deal of disparaging information about Muslims and not much about the ostensible topic. This time however, rather than just oppose the promotion of the article at DYK as with the Kennedy article, an approach which I noted with regret had left a residue of ill-feeling, I decided instead to try and help Mbz NPOV the article so that hopefully it could be promoted. Sadly, instead of accepting my assistance in good faith, Mbz has decided to create more unnecessary drama by opening this RFE. While I don't particularly want to retaliate against Mbz for this thread, what I will say is that dealing with Mbz over the last week or two has burned up an enormous amount of my free time, and considerably diminished my enthusiasm for the project in the short term. I could probably have reviewed 100 other submissions at DYK instead of dealing with his various protests and accusations, and quite frankly I have resented the distraction from my own content creation to try and fix the POV issues in his articles. I didn't expect any thanks for going out of my way to try and help fix his latest submission, but I certainly didn't expect him to open an RFE about it. At this point, I must confess that I am getting quite tired of dealing with Mbz, and in spite of his apparent inexperience at writing articles, am tempted to propose that he be topic banned from I-P related articles just to save anyone else from having to deal with the same tiresome behaviour. Gatoclass ( talk) 16:08, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Up to this point I have asked for no action to be taken against Mbz, but I am now obliged to change my mind. In his latest post in this thread, Mbz makes the following comment about me (I quote): Now I know he does not allow to promote DYK nominations for the Holocaust related articles, and it is all I need to know about him. This is after just escaping a topic ban, and a warning from Sandstein not to engage in further WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour. I am not prepared to accept being made the subject of any more base insinuations of this type. It is clear from this comment of Mbz's that he has learned absolutely nothing from this discussion and is intent on continuing in the same combative and accusatory manner that has thus far characterized all his interactions in I-P related discussions. I am therefore obliged to request that this user now be either topic banned in accordance with the earlier proposal, or blocked. Enough is enough. Gatoclass ( talk) 01:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Comments by other editors
I have nominated and approved numerous articles for DYK so I've interacted with all the editors that frequent Template talk:Did you know. In my experience, and I'm sure others can attest the same, Gatoclass frequently fights doggedly not to allow Israel or Holocaust related articles be approved for DYK. Template talk:Did you know has hundreds of edits a day, so it's really difficult to find old diffs. One example, which I have archived for easy access is Talk:Palestinian Land Law/Archive, where Gatoclass used his admin powers to remove an article from the queue after it was approved by another editor. Then proceeded to editwar in the article, defacing the article with templates, then claiming that the templates indicate that the article is problematic. If time permits I will track down more diffs which establish that Gatoclass has abused his admin powers to futher his POV in the I-P conflict. His AE comments, where he always falls on the side of the anti-Israel editor is further evidence of his POV. What I'm hoping from this is that Gatoclass can simply promise to avoid I-P articles that are up for DYK and stop abusing his admin powers in the process.-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 16:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Having had some experience w/ Mbz, I doubt this complaint has much substance. She seems very quick to point fingers at those who disagree with her, and resorts to extremely agressive editing when challenged. She's a fantastic photographer though! NickCT ( talk) 16:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Breein1007, we cannot except an appropriate comment from nickct, not after he made that unwarranted accusation. Beside I have no problems neither with statements by nickct nor with the statement by vexorg, as well as I will not have any problems with any other users, commenting on me. I believe that an uninvolved and fair-minded administrator will be able to distinguish who is who here, and make the right decision based on the differences I provided by Gatoclass himself, by administrator Dravecky about unacceptable Gatoclass conduct on my DYK nomination, and the comments by user Brewcrewer.-- Mbz1 ( talk) 18:01, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you.-- Mbz1 ( talk) 19:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I've read through the administrator discussion below, and while I think Sandstein's suggestion for a WikiProject to better organize administrators is a good one that may eventually help improve the situation long term, I'm also somewhat confused by administrator reluctance to hand out topic bans (in general, not necessarily in this case). Keeping these editors around, time after time, only scares away less partisan, uninvolved editors, afraid to get caught up in the edit warring shit storm or accused of bias. It also drains Wikipedia resources by forcing administrators to go through these endlessly repeated (and reposted) cases, ad nauseum. If the editors in question are truly committed to Wikipedia's principles and improving the encyclopedia, they will find other areas of Wikipedia to improve when topic banned; if not, I would question if their purpose here is anything other than POV-pushing. There are thousands of editors on Wikipedia who could help improve these articles, but keeping around the handful of "bad apples" on both sides effectively scares them away from even touching these articles. ← George talk 21:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Conclusion by Mbz1
An interesting, but not surprising observation
It is the usual tactic of administrator in dealing with the DYK nominations, deletion requests, and now with me. He'd say something that is incorrect and let it be. The above example is the most recent one of course, but I could provide many more of those by request made in much more important places. About my statement itself. Gatoclass, I only repeated what was said here, at that very AE, by the user I have absolutely no reason to doubt. Gatoclass IMO you should not be bothered by what I, or anybody else for that matter, are saying about you as long as you personally believe it is not the case. -- Mbz1 ( talk) 02:30, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
And here are the sources that confirm the soap was made out of the corpses by nazi: -- Mbz1 ( talk) 04:43, 3 April 2010 (UTC) Comment by YazanSince I've been involved in this incidence since it started. I feel it is only fair to Gatoclass (whom I've seen put extraordinary effort at DYK, since I began helping there) to state my 2cents on the matter. I was the first editor to confirm Mbz1 nomination, and I went on to the article to fix some of the minor problems, such as formatting of sources and sections et all. But after two days, it was clear that the article was expanding in a rather suspicious manner which focused on very recent events and has stopped being an article about a synagogue but rather one about Jews in Egypt. I scratched my confirmation (which is well within my right in DYK convention), asked for a second opinion on the matter from more experienced users, and posted on the article's talk page. Her response was invariably accusative and out of context. She did scratch "Yet another try to kill a valid but unwanted nomination." after I called her up on it, but did not relent and wait for a second opinion on the matter. I posted a cordial message on her talk page explaining what, and why I did that and telling her that I will refrain from contributing to the article or the nomination further. She immediately deleted my message without response. Her problems with editors on DYK started soon after with her attempts at deleting the conversation (which is as GC noted, against convention), I didn't care to further involve myself in the matter and I made it clear after insistent posting on my talk page by Mbz1. Please note, that I try as much as possible to avoid editing on I-P issues because it's less than gratifying and certainly not fun. Gatoclass has been accused of several things here that come very close to character defamation (especially for him, being an admin), and I believe an apology is in order. Yazan ( talk) 02:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning User:GatoclassThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
OK, I've closed the request above to get that out of the way. Now, yes, I am really concerned about these Holocaust soap DYK diffs provided by Mbz1. As Gatoclass says, these seem to reflect a bona fide content dispute about what the sources say, and Mbz1 brings them up here in a manner that gives the impression of having the intent to associate Gatoclass with Holocaust denial, and at any rate misuses the AE process for the discussion of a content dispute, which AE is not for. This has got to stop. While the soap issue is probably outside the scope of WP:ARBPIA, it being brought up here is part of a pattern of battleground conduct by Mbz1 mostly in an ARBPIA context. To stop this, under the authority of WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions I am hereby topic-banning Mbz1 from all content and discussions related to the Israeli-Arab conflict, broadly construed and without exception for reverting vandalism or BLP violations, for three months. Brewcrewer is warned against making wide-ranging serious accusations unsupported by specific diffs. Gatoclass, I strongly recommend that you recuse yourself from taking any administrator action or administrative action (e.g., deleting DYK hooks) with respect to editors you are in content-related disagreements with, as with Mbz1 here. (I've not evaluated whether you should have recused yourself at the time of the incidents under discussion, but you should now.) Sandstein 06:08, 3 April 2010 (UTC) |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
This user displays classic WP:BATTLE mentality. Many of his actions appear calculated and solely designed to irritate other editors as much as possible, without any obvious benefit to Wikipedia. Whether it is aggresively-worded, inane merger proposals [60] accompanied by talkpage rants [61] as a way of getting around the normal AfD process, or adding articles that have nothing to do with Albania to the Albania TF in a tendentious manner [62] [63] [64] [65] and then using inflammatory language on the TF page to rally the troops so as to make sure the Albanian National POV is represented [66] [67], it just doesn't stop.
At Pyrros Dimas, a BLP article, he's been at it for months [68]. Just when things had quieted down a bit, he has now managed to mis-read WP:MOSBIO and he has started the nonsense all over again [69]. His proposal is utterly nonsensical (P.D. renounced his Albanian citizenship early on, and became notable after that) and based on a (deliberately?) flawed understanding of WP:MOSBIO. It's pretty clear he won't stop until he has had his way in that article. Such proposals are motivated by nothing more than nationalist feeling, generate tons of wikidrama, and do absolutely nothing to improve the encyclopedia.
Here he is aggressively editing another flashpoint article [70] [71], adding massive amounts of inflammatory material while admonishing others to go to the talkpage and not revert him. The mere fact that on this very thread, he defends such edits as "very good" speaks volumes.
But most egregious of all is this post to another user's talkpage, urging him to create a new battleground article [72]. Such inflammatory "we-are-victims" articles and the countless hours of wikidrama they invariably generate are the last thing this encyclopedia needs, especially in an area as troubled as the Balkans. Recruiting other editors to create battleground articles is the epitome of WP:BATTLE behavior (incidentally, User:Mladifilozof does nothing else on this encyclopedia but create such battleground articles). And this is in just the last two days! It just doesn't end with this guy, it's like his mind can't stop coming up with ways to create new battlegrounds. A couple of weeks ago I filed this AE request [73], where he only narrowly escaped a topic ban on the thinnest of technicalities. Yet instead of heeding the warning, it appears he has taken the fact that he got away with it as an endorsement and is now even more aggressive. Though he has also made positive contributions, I believe he causes far more harm to the project than good. I am convinced that there won't be peace and quiet on Albania-related topics as as long as this user is allowed to edit them. He was given a chance last time, and he blew it.
I know this editor ( user:athenean) only because of his extreme edit-warring and the reports that he files against me. Only recently he got a block [83] because of his edit-warring at Vjose. It is a mystery to me how an editor with more than 8k edits, such as Athenean, a Tutnum, would recur to edit-warring.
If an admin falls into the traps of this user:Athenean report, then I'll be glad to be topic banned and I'll quit Wikipedia, because that will mean that there is something wrong with the whole system. Athenean has made more reports against me than he has written any articles (only 4, see [84]), whereas I have written 75 ( see here), out of which 72 only in the last three months, however he is a specialist in reporting people who contribute and use proper sources, and he'll make sure to revert them to death because of wp:idontlikeit. Below I will bring some reverts that he has made, notably in Albanian language, but just to give an example of the many reverts that he makes I'll bring this one [85] where he liquidates me in a second as a POV editor, while deleting my sources. I could bring much more, but I am here to defend myself.
I am an incredibly valuable contributor to the Albanian Task force because of my edits and articles created. It is contributors like me that Athenean would love to kick out in order to assert his POV in Albania related topics: I am trying to enter through consensus NPOV whereas his POV pushing and continuous wp:harassment against me has been noted at the Arbmac talk page ( Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Statement_by_sulmues). I know what this is all about: the article that I will write on the Cham Genocide. I have already asked for the collaboration of user:mladifilozof on the topic ( see here) because he is a political analyst and his style would be more than helpful. Mladifilozof gently offered to help ( [86]). User:Athenean would love to prevent that from happening and he promptly reported me here (see here). 25k Cham Albanians were expulsed from Greece in 1944-1945 even though the discrimination started much earlier (see Cham_Albanians#Population_exchange_and_appropriation_of_property_.281923.E2.80.931926.29, Cham_Albanians#Discrimination_and_normalization_.281927.E2.80.931936.29, Cham_Albanians#Crackdown_under_the_Metaxas_regime_.281936.E2.80.931940.29, Cham_Albanians#First_expulsion, and Cham_Albanians#Involvement_in_the_Greek_Civil_War.2C_repatriation_by_ELAS_and_final_expulsion). An article on the Cham genocide is warranted in Wikipedia and I intend to write it. Everyone can then nominate it for deletion.
So far User:Athenean has falsely accused me of socketpuppetry User_talk:Moreschi#Sulmues.3DGuildenrich, endorsed user:alexikoua's false accusation of, again, socketpuppetry Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Sarandioti/Archive#Report_date_September_13_2009.2C_04:52_.28UTC.29_2 here, accused me of incivility three weeks ago here, you name it. He will never stop, until an admin will take a decision to block him for harassment. He reports me on every occasion and is extremely rude when I talk to him in the talk page when he tells me to stay off his talk page (see the most recent [87], [88]), or in the articles' talk page even though I have a point [89]. I don't respond to his incivil comments and I swim away.
Now I'll address the accusations because I have to do so for respect of the time of the deciding admin. They are ALL ill-suited and my defense follows:
Just when things had quieted down a bit, he has now managed to mis-read WP:MOSBIO and he has started the nonsense all over again [108].
I am finished unless some other Greek editor makes any further accusations, which is usually the practice they follow when they accuse me. -- sulmues ( talk) 14:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
- Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence.
Concluding, I think that I might have exagerated while I tagged Albania TF Pyrrhus of Epirus without having full proper sources. I must have read some website that is far from proper secondary sources. In addition my intention was mainly to bring to the community Albanian language sources for the two main cities that are in modern Albania, Antigonia (Chaonia) and Butrint, both founded by Pyrrhus, so my intentions were in good faith. However I apologize for that to the Wikipedia community: because I asserted that he might have Illyrian origin, while that still is not verifiable. I already apologized to the community in the talk page as well. But from here to say that I should be topic banned is a long way, I believe. All the other diffs do not support what user:Athenean is accusing me of. The Albania TF is a better place since I joined and many Albanian related topics are being covered. I think although I have received plenty of accusations from User:Athenean, and although he is a very proud person, he has a good logic and with some effort can learn to respect other users, because right now he is not respecting me. On my side, I will try to respect a little bit more him. -- sulmues talk contributions 15:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
In relation to this edit [126] of User:Athenean: he continues his personal battle against me here and also in my talk page with additional threats of reports because "I am following him around" User_talk:Sulmues#STOP_following_me_around. This editor clearly has personal issues with my editing and is continuously harassing me, even though he claims I am harassing him, thus playing the victim. -- sulmues talk contributions 19:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I really wish I could collaborate with this user more and I have tried several times, but all I get when I write to him in the talk page is to "Stay off my talk page" [127], "Spare me the preaching" [128], again "Get off my talk page" [129], or "I'm not interested in discussing with you [130]. What more can I say about the willingness of collaboration of this user? -- sulmues talk contributions 19:38, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Although I have partially commented on this matter, since Athenean continues to try to get Sulmues blocked I'll reply again here. I told yesterday to Athenean to take it easy [131] and not attack other users. About this matter:
Generally, the language used in this report by Athenean is very aggressive, harassive and similar to other messages of Athenean like this [138]. Also in this report users like Mladifilozof have been mentioned and accused and I think they should be informed.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk11:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I think that this report is the result of overreaction and hostility. I think that all users should "take it easy" and spend their time improving wikipedia and not accusing and reporting each other, don't you all think?-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 13:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Quoting Tadija: User:Sulmues showed numerous times that we don't want to follow NPOV, and meatpuppetry is just one of his ways. Actually, i think that it is pointless to add ones again all problematic diff's that Sulmues did. However, Tadija has had virtually no interaction with Sulmues except the 2 reports(with this being the second one) against Sulmues initiated by Athenean and Alexikoua, which he supported. At least now certain things are clear...-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:49, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
How are any of these IPs related to Sulmues? I don't see any proof but accusations, so I'll regard your statement Alexikoua as a personal attack against him. In Shkumbin I see that the IPs are actually against Sulmues's consensus but that doesn't stop you Alexikoua from accusing him that they are collaborating with him. User:Tadija I see that you have had no interaction with User:Sulmues except when you again without having any interaction with him decided to support [[User:Alexikoua]'s] report where Alexikoua reported Sulmues as a sock . If I may quote I see that you said [139] This is such a DUCK, that i cannot say almost anything else which was proven wrong. Considering that this is the second time you interact with Sulmues and you do that only to support a report which is supported by the same users users who wanted to block him as a sockpuppet, is very suspicious.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:29, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
As i told earlier, the most damaging way of editing wikipedia is trough WP:BATTLE. User:Sulmues showed numerous times that we don't want to follow NPOV, and meatpuppetry is just one of his ways. Actually, i think that it is pointless to add ones again all problematic diff's that Sulmues did. I also agree, regarded user:Mladifilozof remark by Athenean. At the end, i give up. Tried with some reverts, but i simply had no will to enter marathon discussion, each time with same "arguments" and conclusions. So, i am out of that. Both of them don't know what neutral means, and both of them uses wikipedia just as a tool of accomplishing they're instinctive desires and POV's. When they are joined, then everything else is pointless to discuss. Per ARBMAC conclusion, that kind of editing is highly unwelcome in Balkan related articles. I already talked to User:Prodego regarding this, so it will be wise to invite him also into conversation.
No more words from me. Everything is already said.
Use of the site for other purposes—including, but not limited to,
advocacy, propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, and political or ideological struggle—is prohibited.
This is the main idea why ARBMAC is generally established, in the first place. -- Tadija taking 14:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Sulmues has been advised multiple times to calm down and avoid battlefield behavior [ [140]], but in vain. Last time he was warned for this [ [141]], but he completely rejected this warning [ [142]].
In the following days he continued this dangerous pattern. Although in some occasions, like in Shkumbin I&Sulmues initially reached an consensus [ [143]], but after a few days the usual ip army that follows Sulmues attacked. Characteristically Sulmues continued to edit the article after the ip disruption but without reverting them, proving that he enjoyed this activity. Same situation in Filiates, Sulmues makes massive pov edits without initiating any discussion in article's talk page, he is reverted, but suddenly the ip army strikes again and restores his massive edits. In Pyrros Dimas he uses the dirsuption, created by ips [ [144]], as an argument to promote his pov verion. Alexikoua ( talk) 15:01, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Some other examples are his late obsession to create the Cham Genocide (suppose to describe events already described in Expulsion of Cham Albanians but promoting his personal POV), and to support the 'Albanian POV' as he says here [ [145]]. I see that his recent warning was just the reason to initiate a more massive wp:battle. Alexikoua ( talk) 15:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
What really impresses me is that User:Sulmues has never admitted that he overdid it (at least a little) after all this discussions, blocks and topic bans he received. Although he has been warned several times to avoid wp:battle by third part users [ [146]] he mysteriously insists to play the victim of the situation, launching accusation against everyone. No wonder, he promised to continue his wp:battle behavior in near future [ [147]]. Alexikoua ( talk) 14:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Sulmues has made an extraordinary contribution to the improvement of articles
Allegations are from users without credibility (like tadija with more than one account-socks). and non-neutral users like Athenean and Aleksikoua who oppose everything that is against the greece politics(nationalism).-- LONTECH Talk 22:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
This is another bad faith nationalist driven report by users with blocks full of edit-warring blocks. Some of them like Athenean I found out that have been banned in the past from Balkans-related articles. Tadija has also been blocked because of having sockpuppets. Taking all of this in account, the explanations provided above for the so-called "proof against Sulmues", the large contributions of Sulmues in Albania-related articles, and the constant personal attacks against him by recently blocked users already blocked, I honestly must say that we should discard this so-called report as another harassive attack in a long series of personal attacks launched against him.-- Kushtrim123 ( talk) 14:38, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Saw this thread on Sulmues talk page and I felt obligated to write smth about him and this issue. If you look at through all Albanian contributors talk pages you may notice that everyone of them has been reported by Greek contributors in relation to their contribution to Albanian articles and this persistence of patrolling Albanian related articles is astonishing. I don't think that it is possible that every single Albanian contributor in wiki (even anon IP) is wrong. This is very frustrating and many good editors from Albanian side (just like the cases of Taulant23 or Balkanian`s word show), have left wiki for this reason. User sulmues is a good contributor. He has written many articles and kept writing them even when he was the only Albanian contributor in wiki for some time. I give him credit on that because other including me didn't had the nerve to continue. Being the only one he was constantly under the same pressure and sometimes this might have affected his behavior, but that's understandable. I can assure that everyone of us might have reacted this way. I agree that it takes two to make a tango, but unfortunately one of the partners is not interested in dancing. Aigest ( talk) 16:24, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
This AE thread is still unresolved, as no uninvolved administrator has addressed the request yet. As such, I've undone the automatic archiving. A Stop at Willoughby ( talk) 19:34, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I do not think a compelling case for the application of sanctions has been presented. Athenean and Sulmues seem to be on opposite sides of multiple content disputes; I believe that passion from those disputes has led to exaggerated charges against Sulmues. Athenean calls this an "aggressively-worded, inane merger proposal" when in fact the proposal could not be construed reasonably as aggressively-worded. Similarly, this four-line comment is not a "talk page rant" by an average person's standard. Adding articles to a WikiProject's scope, particularly when a reasonable case can be made for their inclusion in said scope, is not really [{WP:TE|tendentious editing]], though posts like this do seem to indicate a battleground mentality (but not because of any sort of inflammatory tone). However, it is not Sulmues alone who is responsible for the battleground atmosphere; several editors on the "Greek side," including Athenean, need to tone it down and stop trying to prevent the "Albanian side" from editing. Both sides are at fault, and both sides need to collaborate and compromise.
The dispute associated with Pyrros Dimas is an excellent example. The basic question is whether Dimas's former Albanian citizenship should be mentioned in the lead, per WP:MOSBIO#Opening paragraph. Sulmues has made a reasonable case for including it on the grounds that Dimas first became notable under WP:ATHLETE as an Albanian citizen and competitor. However, the "Greek side" appears to be intent on avoiding mention of this in the lead – apparently solely because of this whole conflict between editors of Greek and Albanian nationalities.
This needs to stop. These are content disputes, so sanctions should not be levied to take one side out of commission, but because of the battleground mentalities on both sides, sanctions may later become necessary – for both sides. A Stop at Willoughby ( talk) 20:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Not actionable on this board; request does not relate to an arbitration decision. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning n/a
This article has for some time been subject to drive-by reverting of content and dispute over content. In recent days there has been an great increase in the reverting and conflict over material relating to Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, and British and UK identity/nationalism. (See article history.) Consequently, last Friday, I posted a notification of my intention to place the "Troubles" template on the talk page as remedy. A Troubles-related article is defined as: "any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR ... When in doubt, assume it is related." (my emphasis). Following further reverting and conflict over use of sources in relation to Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, and British and UK identity/nationalism, I added the template and posted message on the talk advising others of it. Some (good faith) editors have responded with "point of order" concerns that this template can only be added to an article talk page by an administrator. I don't believe this to be the case. I believe that, per the ruling, the template merely serves as notification that "any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism falls under WP:1RR. ... When in doubt, assume it is related." (my emphasis). The template merely acts a courtesy to other editors after which the ArbCom remedy is enforced. Countries of the United Kingdom, as the difficulties and conflict over the article, both in recent days and over an extended period demonstrate, can be "reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism". Should there be doubt, per the ruling, we "assume it is related". The request for enforcement is thus:
Many thanks, --RA ( talk) 08:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning n/aStatement by n/aComments by others about the request concerning n/a
Result concerning n/a
As far as I can tell, this request is not actionable. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case is not a remedy passed by the Arbitration Committee, as Rlevse's note in that section makes clear, and can therefore not be the subject of arbitration enforcement. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Remedies does not allow for restrictions with respect to whole articles, only for probation against individual users. Absent objections by other admins, I will close this request. Sandstein 11:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
I do not believe that this action falls within the scope of the relevant sanctions. The image was not, despite assertions by the banning admin, directed against Israelis or any other people; but against an ideology and political ideology. It was in use because the same admin previously deleted a similar image, explicitly described as anti-Zionist rather than anti-Israel. Similar images are commonly used by Jews opposed to Zionism and the state of Israel, such as at the home page of Neturei Karta [149]. There had been no complaints about the use of this image, and its removal was only demanded after the admin visited my user page after another editor complained aboout a personal attack on me by a third editor. Other editors are not prohibited from using this or other similar inages, it was not disruptive or offensive, and I believe that this ban is uncalled-for, and outside the scope of ARBPIA sanctions. Incidentally, I believe that the use of these sanctions by the admin to justify removal of the original image from Wiki Commons was entirely outside the scope of these sanctions, which apply only to Wikipedia.
This restriction concerns two images ( Commons:File:Azflag.jpg, Commons:File:No Israel.svg) depicting a struck-through Israeli flag that were (in succession) displayed inside a userbox on RolandR's user page which says "This user is an anti-Zionist." I was alerted to that image through a complaint made to me concerning a comment by another user (topicbanned by me) in conflict with RolandR concerning that user page. The deletion of the first image (which was unused anywhere but in that userbox) occurred in application of Commons deletion policy and is now subject to a Commons undeletion discussion; it has no bearing on this appeal.
For the reasons explained in more detail on RolandR's talk page, it appears self-evident to me that users should not use images to decorate their userpages which vilify, reject, deny the legitimacy or right to existence of one side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both in the light of WP:UP#POLEMIC and especially WP:ARBPIA#Principles: "Use of the site for other purposes, such as advocacy or propaganda, furtherance of outside conflicts, publishing or promoting original research, and political or ideological struggle, is prohibited." Accordingly, I recommend that the Community decline this appeal.
Sandstein, you say "users should not use images to decorate their userpages which vilify, reject, deny the legitimacy or right to existence of one side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict". Why limit that statement to images? More than a few users have userboxes with text that vilifies, rejects, denies etc. Why aren't you on the warpath against those userboxes? — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 18:23, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I think that the link to RolandR TP, provided by Sandstein, explain much of it. Any version of an intentionly provocative image of a country flag crossed with red line is unavoidably and unnecessarily offensive and I agree that it shouldn't be on one UP (espcially and specifically when most of his edits are directly related to that country).-- Gilisa ( talk) 18:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
-- Gilisa ( talk) 20:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
RolandR's original user box looked like was a negated version of the
This User is a Zionist one, with a cross over the flag on the left-hand side and the word not added to the text. The text made it clear that the image represented opposition to Zionism. I think it was unreasonable to interpret it, as Sandstein said, as an attack on the Israeli people. On the page containing a collection of
Polics by Country userboxes, the European Union flag appears defaced several times. Obviously it would be unreasonable to interpret those userboxes as attacks on EU citizens or countries rather than opposition to the EU or EU membership. The symbol of the Chinese Communist Party also appears defaced several times. Similarly, it would be unreasonable to interpret those userboxes as attacks on a group of people rather than an institution or ideology.
Generally, I think that Sandstein makes good decisions. There has, though, been a couple of times, in my opinion, when he has made very bad ones, including one very biased one which the user was, unfortunately, too busy to contest. Here, I think he has been unnecessarily high-handed and confrontational. ←
ZScarpia 19:51, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I see several problems with Sandstein's action. One is that the arbitration decision he/she is relying on does not (I think) mention user-space but is everywhere concerned with the behavior of editors in article space. So it is somewhat of a stretch to apply it to user-space; I think a request for clarification on that would be in order. Moreover, he/she relies on the "Principles" section of the decision, not the "Remedies" section. Since the Principles listed here are general principles that don't even mention the I/P domain, I don't think that arguing an application of the Principles is sufficient to be able to claim that the arbitration decision is being enforced. As far as I know, enforcing an arbitration decision means enforcing the Remedies specified by the decision. The other page cited by Sandstein, WP:UP is a guideline rather than a policy. In summary, the legal basis for Sandstein's action is very shaky.
Regarding user-boxes, I don't like them and never used one myself but very many users declare their political opinions in this manner. Most of these opinions are likely to "offend" someone with contrary opinions. I don't see how the one Sandstein objected to is worse than many others, and strong interpretations like that it denies Israeli people the right to exist are just political counter-rhetoric. The right way to tackle the issue of political userboxes would be to open a general discussion on them and develop a community consensus. I don't think it is reasonable to specifically sanction one user on an ad hoc basis. Zero talk 00:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I gave this a lot of thought because I am generally all for freedom of speech. If a user wants to call himself an "anti-Zionist" I my first inclination is to say fine. If he's a member of the KKK, let him put a hood on his page. Of course this would mean that I would have the freedom to put "anti-Palestinian" and a crossed-out Palestinian flag on my user page and expect no repercussions over this. A person that has such banners should expect to get flak for it and not complain to administrators because of it, at the very least. Most importantly, such banners should be able to be acknowledged among editors in any article in the IP area with POV concerns and the benefit of the doubt should go to editors who do not have such bias exhibited on his or her talk page. Frankly, if the objective is to make Wikipedia a good workplace, such things should be banned. They show, de facto, someone whose editing in the area must be suspect in terms of both POV and WP:Battle. Both the Sanctions and WP:UPNO provide plenty of justification for Sandstein's decision. Stellarkid ( talk) 21:02, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
sigh. Unomi ( talk) 21:45, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Is there precedent for applying discretionary sanctions to what appears to me to be a purely userspace matter? Tim Song ( talk) 17:30, 7 April 2010 (UTC)