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High speed rail is a very loosely defined word, and the line between HSR and HrSR is very blurred. That said, considering that several other trains/systems that travel at 125mph are widely referred to as "high speed" (such as the British InterCity125) and the fact that several media outlets have described this project as such, including a recent statement by an FDOT official, I would argue that AAF should be referred to as HSR rather than HrSR. As noted some time ago in the Acela Express talk page, the UIC definition of HSR is 200kph, or roughly 124 miles per hour http://www.uic.org/spip.php?article971. It would appear that the Congressional Research Service would be in the minority in describing such speeds as "higher". 76.188.123.83 ( talk) 17:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Agreed that 90-110 mph is best classified as higher rather than high speed. However, even if the majority of the line is not moving at 125, I don't think that that discounts AAF as a high speed line. The Acela express reaches 134-150 mph speeds on only a few small segments of its route and the previously mentioned InterCity125 also operates at lower speeds on a few sections. It should also be noted that several other trains worldwide, such as in Sweden and Norway trains are referred to as "high speed" on Wikipedia that have similar maximum speeds. In fact, in the template box for high speed rail, a category of "124-155mph" trains is included. Of course, his distinction between HrSR and HSR is largely semantic, but I think this project is best described at the latter given that a significant segment operates at such speeds. If it reached 125 mph for say, two or three miles of it's whole route, than it would be more debatable, but again, it's a significant part of the system. 76.188.123.83 ( talk) 21:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
A few more things: The Congressional Research Service refers to trains that reach speeds even up to 150 mph as "higher speed", which is definitely inconsistent with how most systems in the world that operate at such speeds are labeled as. It also calls anything above that as "very high speed" rather than simply high speed. This suggests that the CRS uses the term HrSR in a slightly different manner than others. As for the Northeast Regional's status, from the HrSR page's link to a 2010 Amtrak document, it does appear that the organization lists the service alongside the Acela and several 110mph lines as "high speed", although I don't often hear it being referred to as either HSR or HrSR, which is a little odd. Perhaps it would be appropriate to label All Aboard Florida as a both: A mostly HrSR route with a high speed section.(Similar to what you suggested earlier) 76.188.123.83 ( talk) 22:16, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I still think it should be labeled as both, until/unless there is some kind of definitive information that emerges (statement by company or government regarding it's status, etc). These definitions are still too vague. What does the USC consider "reasonable"? How much higher than 125? 126? 127? Does that include trains operating at 125mph but are capable of faster speeds? What is the boundary line? As for federal definitions, the FRA considers 110+mph to be HSR, and while that is debatable it illustrates the inconsistencies of what is called HSR. Even the UIC definitions leave wiggle room by stating that systems with speeds below 125-150 can be considered "HSR" in cases such as regions where this is significantly faster in comparison to existing infrastructure (which is certainly the case in Florida). This ambiguity, combined with the fact that the project has been commonly referred to as HSR in the media and (seemingly) Floridian officials, I think it should be reverted to include both labels. Given how this is almost entirely based on semantics, I don't see the harm in calling it both names for the time being. If FDOT or AAF come out and say "this is not true high speed, just enhanced", then we can say for certain it is not. As it stands, the parts of this article regarding the projects speeds come off as nit picky wonk-talk. 76.188.123.83 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Have to agree with the "Wonk Talk" comment. The term "High Speed Rail" has been used for decades, has a relatively fuzzy definition, and I'm not sure we can just change the way it's been used for decades simply because a group of political hacks have declared some definitions and new phrases in some recent legislation.
And FWIW, there's been a lot of announcements from Amtrak and other government agencies about "High Speed" services (that is, reported as High Speed by all media outlets covering the issue) that refer to trains going at 110mph. Here's a recent press release from Amtrak that explicitly describes a 110mph route upgrade as "High Speed Rail": http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/88/957/Amtrak-Illinois-2013-Construction-Phase%201-ATK-13-078.pdf
My view? Wikipedia should purge itself of the term "Higher Speed Rail" and should concentrate on what secondary sources are saying. In most cases, this means describing any rail project of speeds 100mph and greater as HSR. I appreciate that'll upset people who want to be pedantic about things for the sake of being pedantic, but, seriously, there's no such Animal as "Higher Speed Rail" outside of politics. 98.254.202.225 ( talk) 14:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
-- This is an encylodia. There use of "High Speed Rail" is not only valid, it is the most commmon term out there. If you're writing some civil engineering thesis for your PhD, go ahead, get pedantic with things like "Higher Speed". This ain't congress, a court of law nor academia. This is an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:346:280:833:C8D8:D7A9:2A5A:CF8 ( talk) 17:57, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
This is the new claim being introduced: "When completed in 2022, it will be the only modern High Speed Rail ( HSR ) passenger train privately operated in the United States". No source has been provided for this claim. It's at odds with the discussion above, and with the definitions in both higher-speed rail and high-speed rail. The lower limit of 124 miles per hour (200 km/h) for high-speed rail refers to individual sections of an otherwise faster line; a system that tops out at 124/125 everywhere doesn't really meet that definition. Absent the UIC or other industry bodies calling the line high-speed, higher-speed would seem to be more appropriate terminology. Mackensen (talk) 18:49, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
-- Yes, it does meet the criteria for high speed rail as laid out by CONSENSUS on both Wikpedia's High Speed Rail page AND it's passenger rail. I get it; you don't like it. It's barely squeeking in there. It feels like a PR stunt or something, right?
Nevertheless, the Orlando extension meets the consesus criteria for High Speed Rail. This is a great opportunity to add references in the article to things that address how much faster things can be.... maybe even how much more we'd love them to be, eh? It's great stuff.
/info/en/?search=Passenger_rail_terminology#High-speed_rail
Generally, the speed range for high-speed rail is between 200 km/h (124 mph) and 400 km/h (249 mph). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:346:280:833:C8D8:D7A9:2A5A:CF8 ( talk) 18:55, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
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At the end of the "Miami to Cocoa" section there's this, "... FEC will likely give priority to its own passenger trains over freight", with a citation to a (still online) WSJ article from 2012. That WSJ article is incorrect as it confuses Florida East Coast Industries (FECI) with Florida East Coast Railway Corp (FECR Corp.) The latter owns the right-of-way and is in the freight train business. The former, FECI, does not currently own or operate any trains or own any right-of-way or tracks. FECI hopes to get into the passenger rail business with their All Aboard Florida project. "FEC" cannot be said to be likely to do anything because there is no "FEC". You have to specify the freight operation, FECR Corp, or the nascent passenger operation of FECI/AAF. The two are not the same. I'm not sure whether it's worth changing anything at the moment because the WSJ article that is cited makes the same careless mistake. Is it permissible to delete something that's not true when there's a mainstream news article online that says otherwise? JeffTracy ( talk) 09:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Siemens has been selected to supply their Charger Diesel-Electric locomotives and passenger cars for AAF service:
http://inr.synapticdigital.com/siemens/AAF/
Respective specification documents can be found at the linked site.
Fan Railer ( talk) 18:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Anyone have any insight as to what the rail service article should be called? I'm leaning towards re-naming this Brightline or Brightline rail service or something along those lines, and then leaving All Aboard Florida as the holding company of Brightline, like Parallel Infrastructure and Flagler Global Logistics, other subsidiaries of Florida East Coast Industries- Aalox ( Say Hello • My Work) 18:44, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Summer 2017 has arguably come, but the website does not even list a month for opening. When will service start? Hobbitschuster ( talk) 17:30, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
Today — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zcbtkn ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
> This segment of the proposed line will operate at speeds of up to 125 miles per hour (201 km/h)
Please note that sustained 200km/h service is impossible with diesel traction. It has been attempted over and over in Europe (Britain, France, Norway, etc.) and no one could make it work reliably, not even with oil-powered turbojets. Internal combustion machinery shakes itself apart quickly as speed increases and power density is too low. (Consider that diesel is only about as strong as the low voltage southern France 1500V DC electrification system, but in practice even the italian 3000V DC system could not supply true HST power needs and they had to switch to 25kV AC). Thus diesel traction will prove underpowered and sluggish in service.
Furthermore, diesel motive power suffers from "Traction or HVAC?" dilemma, since electricity demand for pax HVAC and entertainment is often 15-20% of the total generated and it is not realistic for the engineer to disconnect HVAC under the hot Florida skies whenever the train is accelerating. Electrified trains just pull more amperes from the catenary in such cases.
Thus, 160km/h is the realistic maximum for diesel-pulled operation, but experts strongly recommend electrification for speeds over 120km/h. The catenary is really thin and light with the 25kV 50/60Hz AC system and can be built economically. In fact that modern rail electrification system started in the 1920s in Hungary, one of the world's poorest civilized countries at the time, following extreme territorial losses suffered in WW1. Thus the USA could easily afford electrification and the traction decision is based more on emotion, i.e. her internal combustion culture. 82.131.210.163 ( talk) 10:41, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Most of the things in the article referring to the service is future reference, and if the opening date for Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach service is correct, service started 3 days ago (If you're reading this when I posted it). Someone please fix this. 2601:245:C101:6BCC:64E3:7A3B:F734:146 ( talk) 17:43, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Some of the information in the Infobox is stating planned service, not current service. E.g. the current system length is 70 miles. 240 miles is likely the planned length. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.216.199.149 ( talk) 18:29, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Brightline's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Trains Magazine":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:55, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
I made the following updates today:
Updated some verbs' tense from future to present, now that service is operational.
Updated train frequencies and running times, based on latest schedule on gobrightline.com
In the Stations section, deleted a paragraph about MiamiCentral from the main section. Some of it was construction-related, so no longer relevant. The rest was redundant to info in the specific subsection on Miami.
Updated connections info for the stations, particularly future connections. Deleted mentions of WAVE streetcar which appears to be a dead project, and Tri-Rail Coastal Connection which appears to be in a state of flux, and if it does happen will be many years in the future (I could not find any relevant current source.) Also added possible future connection to an I-Drive link from Orlando Airport, as this is included on the airport's website and specifically provided for in the design of the Intermodal Terminal.
I also replaced some old pre-construction citations with more contemporary ones. Joelkfla ( talk) 17:53, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
I agree with the view that the Acela is the number 1 on the US railtracks (for now)in terms of speed, but the North East Regional already has a speed of 125 mph, so if Brightline introduce service with a top speed of 125 mph then they wil be shared second or third not only second. SRich ( talk) 22:00, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
Don't know how to update the diagram of stations to add the planned Tampa, FL station. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.14.67.212 ( talk) 09:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
-- At this time the Tampa station isn't planned. It's an aspiration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:346:280:833:C8D8:D7A9:2A5A:CF8 ( talk) 18:10, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
> will reach 110 mph (177 km/h) between West Palm Beach and Cocoa, and 125 mph (201 km/h) between Cocoa and the Orlando International Airport
If you think sustained and reliable 160+ km/h rail service is possible with diesel traction, then I have a railway bridge to sell you... Wikipedia should take itself more seriously, as it is a well-known fact of railway engineering that 120+ km/h is the domain of catenary electrifiction, both for economical and technical reasons. (There is a limit to the max. RPM of large diesel engines, which are by nature low-revving beasts and it is difficult to construct generators which can provide enough amps for high speed traction at such low RPMs. Meanwhile 25kV AC overhead wire provides up to 11MW or up to 16MW with the japanese's 2x25kV supply scheme.) 79.120.151.121 ( talk) 18:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is not a mechanical engineering journal; it's an encyclopedia. Virgin Trains USA is reporting it will operate trains reaching those speeds. This article correctly points out that Virgin Trains USA claims they will operate at those speeds.
If this is something that can not be done, feel free to gather papers and articles that take up this issue. You could create a section in the article for it to point out that many in the industry question if Virgin Trains USA can operate at those speeds with diesel-electric locomotives. Agassiz830 ( talk) 20:48, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Across Brightline's various press releases and quarterly reports, I've got monthly ridership numbers (and approximate revenue numbers) for the service. I don't want to cruft up the article with this and I don't know how to craft a collapsible box, but this feels like it might be useful for the short term (I presume that in the long term it'll be consolidated down to either quarterly ridership data, like FrontRunner's article has, or even annual data). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.134.233.2 ( talk) 11:38, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Virgin Trains USA is currently the name of a Florida railway. But soon, the topic that the Virgin Trains USA page covers will probably be called "Florida Corridor (Virgin Trains USA)" or something similar. The actual page would be about the entire system, including the Florida (Brightline) Corridor, the Las Vegas (XpressWest) corridor and whatever the future brings. When the corridors are officially named, the Virgin Trains USA page should explain the different corridors, rather than just have the Florida stuff. And all the different corridors (including FL and Vegas) would have their own pages as well. I hope you guys get the idea. - Bluebunny2 ( talk) 00:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)\
The result of the move request was: moved. West Palm Beach station (Virgin Trains USA) and Fort Lauderdale station (Virgin Trains USA) will need a separate discussion other than this one, they can be included in the same multi RM discussion. Regards, —usernamekiran (talk) 21:51, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Virgin Trains USA →
Brightline – According to
this article, Virgin Trains USA will be returning to the Brightline branding. Should we go ahead and move the page back to
Brightline? –
Jadebenn (
talk ·
contribs ·
subpages) 06:41, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Strong support - on the grounds that it never appears that the Virgin Trains USA was established as the WP:COMMONNAME and this page’s name should have never been changed in the first place. — RickyCourtney ( talk) 19:04, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Support - Only hesitancy I have relates to this quote from the article: "Virgin has disputed the validity of the termination notice." Seems like the de-branding is being contested. All that said, I think the intention is there, and the company running the train has never not been Brightline, so I'm in favor of the move. Absolutely fine to keep this on the backburner till this all gets finalized though. The Savage Norwegian 23:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Support - with a redirect from Virgin Trains USA. Might this also be an opportunity to merge XpressWest into this page as well? Lukevdl ( talk) 17:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Support - Per above comments. The partnership is done. So we must revert it back to the old name. Davidng913 ( talk) 19:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Agree - well well, that has been quite predictable. However it does not have to do with licensing quarrels but the fact that Virgin just needed access to Brightline as a template model for other regions. So at some point Virgin would likely become the national railroad company while the local operation flips back to the established name. In a way there was nothing more to it than having both names be shown in parallel for some time. I chose to just flip the order of names mentioned in the German wikipedia for that time without renaming the article itself. Obviously, I could have been wrong.
Guidod (
talk) 19:21, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Mostly agree, but at least partial branding took place as per the big sign outside Virgin MiamiCentral station. Mjdestroyerofworlds ( talk) 20:42, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Support - Whether the deal returns, the more commonly used name is certainly Brightline as the branding was never changed. Until the company is rebranded to Virgin, if ever, I think it should be Brightline. 198.72.46.3 ( talk) 12:19, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
There have been at least two previous moves, note
14:58, 10 May 2016 Cuchullain talk contribs block 40 bytes +40 Cuchullain moved page All Aboard Florida to Brightline: Moving per talk: seems to be the more WP:COMMONNAME now
and at least one of them was poorly documented. In hindsight the article should have stayed at Brightline and my guess is that had policies and procedures been more closely followed, that is exactly what would have happened. Andrewa ( talk) 22:19, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Fort Pierce and Stuart were competing for position as the next station north of West Palm Beach, as the train heads toward Cocoa. By a report of July 12, 2021, it appears that Stuart has edged out, over Fort Pierce. Should not the table of the train route be adjusted? Or does someone have more updated information? See this TC Business article: [7] Dogru144 ( talk) 16:31, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
it seems almost like propaganda against local, public commuter rail. Let's not allow real estate 'investment' companies to run amok here. 2601:582:8600:5E80:90B6:B9EE:FAA8:2D52 ( talk) 20:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
"Brightline has been described as the deadliest railroad in the United States; in the two years following its launch, more than 40 people were killed by Brightline trains on tracks and at rail crossings."
This is really inappropriate to leave bare like this. I don't have a suggestion presently, and yes, it's technically true that it's been called that, but that's a really dopey way to put it. You can't get killed if you're not fooling around on a railroad track. These trains are not hunting people down and murdering them. Ruryanov ( talk) 20:56, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
The orlando station is no longer a "planned station" as services are beginning in May of 2023
I only make this topic due to my lack of experience in the Wikipedia community and lack of ability in efficiently and effectively editing Wikipedia pages. If this topic is either clutter or not needed don't hesitate to ask for its removal.
https://www.wptv.com/lifestyle/travel/brightline-service-in-orlando-to-begin-this-summer-ticket-sales-to-start-in-may?fbclid=IwAR2SeQ7EYUKRZJSDbwQhIuWNGJ0aTmRGbNHLyQ4SoqoUJpwWpBLs_TkVYnI 2600:1700:4133:A010:F9C4:D1F:70EF:996D ( talk) 17:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
How long is the current track? I couldn't find information on that anywhere. 103.154.37.49 ( talk) 17:11, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Brightline does not leave the Miami-West Palm Beach CSA. It is not an inter-city train. That claim is inaccurate. It is a commuter rail. Stidmatt ( talk) 13:16, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
How is accidents not even mentioned in this article? Who edits this? For what is considered to be a ridiculously deadly rail line. The deadliest in the entire country, I am very shocked to see that there's not a single chapter talking about its safety record. I skimmed through the article and cannot easily find such info.
Since Brightline started operations in 2018, there have been at least 68 casualties. In April 2022, a 27 year old driver died after his car was hit by a Brightline train at Pompano Beach. A day later, another driver in a Jeep Wrangler was hit by a Brightline train in Hollywood, and died from his injuries. In the three months after Brightline had restarted service following the COVID-19 lockdowns, there were 11 cars who had crashed into Brightline trains. 49.180.230.124 ( talk) 22:19, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
But it could do better to improve the situation like not build such tracks openly in heavily urbanised areas in the first place, with so many people around. It's asking for trouble there and if you do build it then you have a responsibility to be mindful of the abundance of people wanting to cross the tracks, and should build better fences or some warning system or build better safety crossings. Otherwise don't operate at all if you can't handle the reality that you help create. No other rail network have the same severe issues. Nonetheless, when its trains hits other people in the public and racked a high death rate that's the highest nationwide. It still deserves its own chapter outlining that and readers have a right to know about those highest rate of deaths nationally. 49.180.230.124 ( talk) 02:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)According to an ongoing Associated Press analysis of federal data, Brightline trains have the highest death rate in the U.S., with trains fatally striking 98 people since Miami-West Palm. [10]
probably best to just remove the whole sentence bc it doesn't add much. PyropePe ( talk) 16:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)Within the first three months after Brightline had restarted service following the COVID-19 lockdowns, there were 11 cars who had crashed into Brightline trains, and two fatalities. [11]
This edit says "average speed is not needed". I disagree. What do you think? Is there precedent either way? 213.95.33.60 ( talk) 20:51, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
The average speed is now down to 69 or 70 mph (111 km/h), from the initial 80 mph (130 kmh) average, that aligned with the target time of 3 hours from Miami to Orlando. That time is now extended to almost 3 and half hours. Notably, 80 mph is or was the overall average speed of the Acela service on the Northeast Corridor. With a few track improvements and introduction of the Aveila Liberty trainsets, the NEC may have gotten faster where the Florida service is now slower. Even if a small segment of the Brightline service tops out at over 125 (200 kmh), possibly even 150 mph (240 kmh), an average speed in the 60s mph (a mile a minute), is not high speed rail that could outpace a car on a highway with zero to one stops. B137 ( talk) 00:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
I think adding one or both of these maps by Brightline would be a great addition to the webpage to illustrate the interest Brightline has of other corridors:
Official Brightline "Too Long To Drive and Too Short To Fly" maps:
@ Thesavagenorwegian ZlatanSweden10 ( talk) 01:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
People on Reddit are putting out ridership data here. Unfortunately when I click on the link in the reddit post I get "403 forbidden" but the post itself might still be a useful resource. 2001:A62:15F5:8F02:42:9517:A3ED:165D ( talk) 16:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)