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link to Electric-Bikes.com leads tn 'oops we are sorry' page. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
212.159.43.76 (
talk) 21:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Thanks for spotting that. I'll fix it to what i think it was meant to link to.
Simply south (
talk) 16:43, 22 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Heathrow location
If someone wants to take photos or create a map of the Heathrow system,
this sketch shows where it will be. --
SEWilco (
talk) 17:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Now if you could get permission to use those pictures on Wikipedia, we would be all set. ;-) --
JJLatWiki (
talk) 22:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)reply
I uploaded a picture taken from an airplane on Feb 19 but OTRS is still pending.
Germet (
talk) 20:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)reply
Mr Thant (London Connections) created a
map.
Germet (
talk) 17:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)reply
New load/unload stalls
I've noticed that the Heathrow system will use parking lot style, one-way, angled stalls for loading and unloading passengers instead of the previously more common all-in-a-line style loading and unloading. In almost all previous PRT designs, the cars enter the station on a continuous siding and passengers unload near the entrance point of siding and load on the side of the station where the siding exits the station. With this new design, not only are the stations offline, the passenger load/unload stalls are further offline. Intuitively, it seems to increase capacity by allowing slower passengers avoid interfering with faster passengers. But it also seems to slightly complicate the command and control functions. Has anyone read about this change?
By the way, I noticed that Google Earth now has a great shot of the Cardiff test facility with the new loading stall design:
ULTra Cardiff (I hope) --
JJLatWiki (
talk) 18:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)reply
The offline stations are an excellent idea for the travel use, due to baggage handling complications. Of course the offline stations do slightly complicate the command and control, but should need very slight changes to the zone reservation code (zone blocking has been mentioned in descriptions, and solution is trivial when each stall and the station spur have their own zones). A little more complex might be changes to the vehicle's movement programming (such as automated backing out of a stall), but that's obviously been done because they've been testing it. Incidentally, that's a Google Maps link and not Google Earth. --
SEWilco (
talk) 19:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)reply
I first noticed the image in Google Earth and thought Google Maps would be appropriate (no download of GE) for this purpose. ;-) --
JJLatWiki (
talk) 18:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)reply
The in-a-line style stations was all that was (easily) possible with previous systems. They rode a guiderail, typically steered by small runner wheels at the front of the vehicle. The rail had to be continuous, so it's not a trivial exercise to produce a number of "docks", as each one would require a switch or break in the guiderail. This would be further complicated by the fact that the guidewheels would have to be able to run onto the rails from either direction, which would not be simple. I know of no older PRT that can back up.
ULTra has no guiderail, reading its location from the track and steering itself internally. That eliminates all complications on the guidance, and makes backing up trivial. I assume there is some sort of local-area controller in the stations themselves to indicate free docks and tell the vehicles when they are allowed to back up. See
Cabinentaxi for an example of station logic.
As a Canadian I can say that ULTra would never fly here. We have this white stuff called "snow" that, after a brief period, compacts into another material called "ice". Wheeled vehicles take a random amount of time to start and stop on ice and snow, so your headways get trampled and route capacity nosedives. You can fix a lot of this by using a LIM, which means you don't need the wheels to have any traction at all. But then that blows your infrastructure costs, you need larger vehicles to make up for it, and you end up with
Bombardier ART. Sad though.
Snow is only a problem if it accumulates, and accumulation only happens if you don't clear it regularly. With an automated system, it should be possible to automate snow removal as it falls and before it accumulates, by running automated plows or brushes on the tracks every 15 minutes or so during a storm. Perhaps every pod could have a snow brush that descended from the chassis as needed, meaning every pod is a snow remover.
Big huge plows are needed on roads only because there aren't enough plows (and drivers) to clear the snow as it falls. So you need a large piece of machinery that can clear 3 hours worth of accumulation. PRT doesn't have that problem because automated snow removal can run at very high frequency.
As for ice storms, that's a little tougher. Maybe you'd need a special vehicle with a scraper or salter (though salt is brutal on the road surface). In any case, however ice on PRT guideway is handled, it will benefit from fully automated vehicles to do the work.
ATren (
talk) 15:46, 11 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Yeah, that's what they thought for the ICTS (now known as the ART). What happens is that wet snow blows onto the track and then wind evaporatively cools it into a thin sheet of ice. Very bad! Works fine in Vancouver though.
Maury Markowitz (
talk) 18:00, 11 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, I don't know, I've lived in one of the snow capitals of the world my whole life, and I've found that the key to snow and ice is to not let it build up. Even in high winds, if you have a steady, non-stop snow removal, you can stay ahead of it. With PRT, if every PRT vehicle has a deployable snow brush under the chassis, then you can have almost constant snow clearing along the entire guideway. In my above comment I had said "every 15 minutes" but really that is far from the maximum frequency. Vehicles on track spaced 20 seconds apart along the whole guideway would not be out of the question. That should cover even the most severe of storms.
The ICTS (or ART) you refer to - is this a people mover of some sort? Is it automated? How often can the snow removal vehicles run?
ATren (
talk) 18:54, 11 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Yes, it's a people-mover/GRT/light subway, also known as the Vancouver SkyTrain, Scarborough RT, Detroit PeopleMover etc. Every vehicle is its own snow plough, but they need on-call teams for when it really snows. Closes down about once a year in spite of this. And that's with a LIM, no wheeled traction!
Maury Markowitz (
talk) 15:20, 12 December 2009 (UTC)reply
Batteries
I can't find any mention of the battery life anywhere. How long does a charge last and how long does it take to recharge? This could be ULTRa's biggest problem - too many vehicles waiting to be recharged.
173.58.251.147 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added 02:25, 16 March 2010 (UTC).reply
Rename
DrFrench recently renamed the article and all mentions of "ULTra" to "Ultra", citing the MOS, but the MOS says mixed-case trademarks are a decision left to editor discretion, and I believe it was better with mixed case. ULTra is short for "Urban Light Transport", so the name ULTra is actually more of an acronym than a simple trademark. We wouldn't write Ibm or At&t, and I don't think this should be Ultra.
If there are no objections in the next few days, I will change it back.
ATren (
talk) 02:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)reply
The company uses "Ultra" and not "ULTra" on their
web-pages. The article should use the same name IMHO.
Hubba (
talk) 18:49, 21 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Latest schedule
Well, spring of 2010 came and went and obviously the service has not opened. Has anyone heard of the latest scheduled opening? Some googling revealed nothing.
Vectro (
talk) 02:13, 22 August 2010 (UTC)reply
It's now Autumn 2010 and still no sign of an opening. This is not good.
173.58.64.64 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added 01:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC).reply
By the time these things go live they'll be covered in more cobwebs than the adams family's house.
Back ache (
talk) 10:26, 8 June 2011 (UTC)reply
Does anyone know why? It it a delay in regulator approval or is it a technical problem?
Paul Studier (
talk) 21:01, 8 June 2011 (UTC)reply
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The result of the move request was: moved. Rough consensus to change non-standard capitalization. Some disagreement over the new title, so a new move request can be started to change to other alternative per
WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE. (
closed by non-admin page mover)
Vpab15 (
talk) 22:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Is this not an acronym? U(rban) L(ight) Tra(nsit). Will reconsider if someone provides a good reason why not.
YorkshireExpat (
talk) 13:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
ULTra is an acronym for Urban Light Transit, but still, the L and the T should not be capitalized becuz that is not a standard English spelling. Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the company considers the name being official. Using stylized forms of names that don't follow English text formatting capitalization rules is prohibited. For more information, see
MOS:TM.
Aitraintheeditorandgamer (
talk) 18:17, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
However, on further inspection this whole request is out of date. They are just called
HeathrowPods now (or pods or PODS; choose your poison), so I Oppose on those ground and would suggest ALT move to Heathrow Pods.
YorkshireExpat (
talk) 18:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Does
MOS:TM consider terms that are not initialisms? The "Tra" at the end is unusual. Also, relatively recent sources don't use "ULTra" as far as I can tell. The two most recent sources cited in the article are from 2017 and 2018, and they don't use it. The current content www.ultraglobalprt.com (links below) also don't use it. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 18:31, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BarrelProof see my follow up. This is academic anyway. My sources above are from 2023 and 2024.
YorkshireExpat (
talk) 18:40, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
No worries. Are you supporting the ALT then, or am I going to have to wait? :)
YorkshireExpat (
talk) 19:08, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Move to Heathrow pod (leaning lowercase for the p in pod and also
WP:SINGULAR) – as in
this source saying "Heathrow pods transport passengers to the future" and "Heathrow Airport has today unveiled the Heathrow pod" [singular] and "The unique Heathrow pod system" and "each temperature-controlled Heathrow pod [singular] has been designed for privacy and comfort" and also Yorkshire's Paddington source saying "PiP students took a ride on the Heathrow pods" and "Heathrow unveiled three freshly wrapped pods" and "to design new artwork for the pods" and "displayed on the pods". Closer inspection of the links I provided below reveals that, currently, that source also uses the term Heathrow pods (sometimes uppercase 'P', sometimes lowercase, in which case Wikipedia would use lowercase). The company is Ultra PRT (with no capital letters in "Ultra"), but the vehicles are called Heathrow pods. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 22:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
BarrelProof@
YorkshireExpat, this article is also on pods outside Heathrow? All the sources you've cited only discuss Heathrow, not other proposals too? Do they call them Heathrow Pods in India etc? DankJae 22:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I sympathize with Yorkshire's comment. As far as I know, there are no operational systems other than at Heathrow. The vehicles aren't operating in India, so they don't need a different name there yet, and presumably they don't have one. Some of the proposed systems discussed in the article seem stalled or unsourced, and it seems clear no one is calling anything "ULTra" lately. The company's name seems to be
Ultra Global PRT, with the shortened common name
Ultra PRT (with no capital letters in "Ultra"). Currently the article is about the pod car system. If it's changed to be about the company, it could be called
Ultra PRT. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 00:34, 18 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Weak support largely per
WP:TITLETM, not universally capitalised, (when searching "ULTra pod" a lot are decapped), and normal capitalisation is to be used. However, TITLETM does have an exception if this the only one that styles it as such? Because there may be a case for
ULTra on its own (again) as a form of alternative disambiguation. But hard to search to prove it, at least for me. DankJae 14:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support. The current title does not seem to be formatted like ordinary English. Even (at least some) self-published "official" sources and the logo don't use it (see
here, which is the first source cited in the article about the service offered to the public, and
here). —
BarrelProof (
talk) 18:04, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
That's because it's an acronym. See above.
YorkshireExpat (
talk) 18:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This is demonstrably an acronym, and it is not required or universal that every acronym/initialism be written with entirely uppercase letters (even if that is the most common approach). If "ULTra" is conventional for this specific case (and it seems to be, judging from the sourcing available) then it is, and that's fine. A general Google search shows "ULTra" dominating when you ignore false-positive results that simply contain the string "ultra" somewhere in them but aren't in reference to ULTra in particular
[1], and same goes for news results
[2], and a Google Scholar search
[3]. What
MOS:TM is concerned about is tedious style shenanigans that are just done for typographic effect and have no grammatical/syntactic/semantic basis to them, only an attention-demanding intent, like "SONY" and "macy★s". This isn't such a case. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 10:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)reply
You may have missed some of the subsequent discussion. The topic seems to have undergone a name change or at least a styling change. While the original form may have been justifiable, no recent sources are using that form. The company is now calling itself Ultra PRT (or Ultra Global PRT), and the vehicles are being called Heathrow pods. The identified uses of "ULTra" (in reliable sources, independent or otherwise) all seem to be from 8+ years ago (unless your searches have turned up more of them). —
BarrelProof (
talk) 16:42, 20 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I did miss that, and didn't take into account the source ages. So, Support per BarrelProof's arguments. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 21:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per BarrelProof. The old strained acronym is no longer in use.
Dicklyon (
talk) 21:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus.
BD2412T 02:33, 24 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support It may be derived from an acronym but it is not being used as an acronym and usage does change (eg radar). The company isn't using that styling (see
here) and usage in google scholar since 2012 is mixed (see
here). Could support an alternative eg
Ultra pod transit system as more natural and only one more word than present.
Cinderella157 (
talk) 09:59, 4 April 2024 (UTC)reply
That alternative seems worth considering. It's
WP:NATURAL and does not narrow the scope. —
BarrelProof (
talk) 17:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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OpposeUltra pod transit system. It doesn't seem to be a name used for the company or in any of the titles in the references.
Darrelljon (
talk) 20:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)reply