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Franco-American

Good evening. I recently saw an error in Timothée Chalamet's biography and it needs to be corrected. On all Timothée Chalamet's pages in other countries, he is marked as a Franco-American actor, because although he is American by birth, according to the French national register he is French, and therefore benefits from all the advantages of a French citizen. Trying to calculate in % his rate of French is insane and should not be done. He has dual nationality, so he is Franco-American according to these statements, in several French interviews he has given. You take away part of his life and his personality, this is French-Bashing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hatrant ( talk • contribs) 19:05, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Hatrant ( talk · contribs)! Nobody here is deliberately 'French-bashing'. We have certain very strict rules when it comes to articles about living people. In essence, we need a reliable source to show that Mr Chalamet is, or identifies as, a French citizen. We also need to be able to check that source. If you could provide us with a link or two, for instance to an official French register, or to an article in a quality newspaper (not a blog), which clearly says he is Franco-American, we can help you update the article immediately. But we can't do anything without you providing those links – after all, someone could turn up here and say that he is Chinese-American and we're China-bashing for not including that in the article and we'd seek the same from them: proof. Thanks. — TREY MATURIN has spoken 19:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
I understand Trey_Maturin ( talk · contribs), in this official text law on the french gouvernment site it said "Les enfants nés d’au moins un parent français et ceux qui bénéficient du double droit du sol se voient attribuer la nationalité française à la naissance" translation (you can do it by yourself if you don't trust me): Children born to at least one French parent and those who benefit from double ground rights are granted French nationality at birth.
( https://www.immigration.interieur.gouv.fr/fr/Integration-et-Acces-a-la-nationalite/La-nationalite-francaise/Les-conditions-et-modalites-de-l-acquisition-de-la-nationalite-francaise)
He also have a French Passport and you CAN'T have it if you haven't the french nationnality: https://twitter.com/clubchalamet/status/1078050354921533440
Source that proof you have to have the french citizen to have a french passport:
https://www.expatica.com/fr/moving/visas/french-passport-1528306/#:~:text=Passport%20eligibility&text=In%20order%20to%20get%20French,%2C%20culture%2C%20and%20citizenship%20responsibilities.
https://passeport.pre-demande.fr/etranger/#:~:text=il%20faut%20%C3%AAtre%20n%C3%A9%20dans,ou%20d'un%20service%20consulaire.
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34478/1_0_0_2?idFicheParent=N360#1_0_0_2
In theses hight quality french media (BFMTV and Le Monde) and Vogue they clairly say that he's Franco-american: https://www.bfmtv.com/people/cinema/qui-est-timothee-chalamet-la-nouvelle-coqueluche-franco-americaine-d-hollywood_AV-201802280017.html
https://www.lemonde.fr/cinema/article/2018/01/17/harcelement-sexuel-l-acteur-timothee-chalamet-fait-don-du-salaire-qu-il-a-percu-pour-le-dernier-woody-allen_5242738_3476.html
https://www.vogue.fr/vogue-hommes-en/article/story12-fun-facts-about-timothee-chalamet2403 Hatrant ( talk) 19:46, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Le Monde and BFM are reliable sources for our purposes here. (The information about French citizenship and passport requirements are not something we can use as they’re not about Mr Chalamet specifically — that’s just how our rules work, sorry!) But yes, the two I mentioned will do. What we do next is put them into the article using our referencing system: {{ cite web}}. This can be daunting for a newcomer, so if you’re not confident in using it and can wait until I’m back at my computer tomorrow afternoon (UTC), I’ll do it for you (I’m on my phone right now and it’s a real pain to do it this way!). Or someone else here might do it in the meantime. If you’d like to practice for yourself, you can use your sandbox as a place to try out new things. This page - Help:Referencing for beginners - will guide you through it. Otherwise, as I say, I’ll be back online in about 16 hours. — TREY MATURIN has spoken 20:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
There is also an interview with him in French where they talk about it, but unfortunately there are only automatic subtitles which I do not recommend ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOAjV22YUq8)
I'm going to train in my sandbox but I prefer to wait for you to make the modification, I don't want to do things wrong ^^'
So thanks to this we can write "is a Franco-American actor" instead of "is an American actor" in the first wiki line? Hatrant ( talk) 21:05, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
I agree for "american and french actor". Ledess31 ( talk) 12:07, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Please how can we find a consensus if no one wants talk? :/ Hatrant ( talk) 16:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

@ Trillfendi: I think this edit by you is a very good compromise. @ Hatrant: I hope you also agree? — TREY MATURIN has spoken 16:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

@ Trey Maturin: - This has been discussed extensively already. We know that he has dual nationality, but there have several discussions in the archives which mention WP guidelines like MOS:CONTEXTBIO/ WP:ETHNICITY as to why we should avoid listing his dual citizenship. Many notable BLPs mention the subjects having dual citizenship, but we do not mention them because for many, they were born, raised, reside and are most notable in the United States. Some archives: here and here. Ultimately, it has been a very disruptive topic but Chalament was born in the United States, resides there primarily (AFAIK) and is most notable there. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 17:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

@ Clear Looking Glass: Just to be clear, I have no skin in this game – I'm only vaguely aware of who Mr Chalamet is, so I'm not coming to this discussion with a point to push. I am, however, looking for a compromise that will see the article readable and accurate, as well as not being such a (strange, IMHO) hot-button issue for both American and French people (I'm neither). I think Trillfendi has hit on a very good compromise that fulfils all of these aims and also draws some of the heat out of the subject. There's more we can do by talking calmly, so let's carry on doing that. I'd be interested to know why "an American and French" actor isn't acceptable to you as a description, as sources suggest he speaks fluent French and he has a French name, along with his French ancestry and, it appears (sources are less clear on this) citizenship. I admit I may be missing something in this discussion, so feel free to enlighten me! :-) — TREY MATURIN has spoken 17:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Thinking of further compromises, and not losing the two good sources the new editor found, would "... an American actor of French ancestry" work for you, CLG? That would seem to cover both bases in what, as you say, has been an intractable problem that some people have found disruptive. It would also seem to cover the obvious question that our readers might have: why is an American actor using a French name? I'm sure there's a wording here that we can hammer out together! — TREY MATURIN has spoken 17:39, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Why would that be included in the lead, when it can be covered in the biography? Is it that important, or does it have any bearing on his notability? ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 17:44, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Trey Maturin: - WP:ETHNICITY states to not list other nationalities unless it is relevant to their notability. Although it is just a guideline, countless BLPs omit the dual or triple citizenships of them because they are not relevant to their notability. He was born in the United States, resides in New York/the United States,his career has been mostly American/Hollywood productions, and so on.
I disagree with it being mentioned in the lede sentence. Americans have all different ethnic origins but articles here rarely mention their ancestry. Furthermore, it would be omitting his Russian/Austrian-Jewish ancestry which he appears to acknowledge as well. His infobox and his early life section already establish his dual citizenship and French heritage. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 17:45, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I can see your points, ScottishFinnishRadish and Clear Looking Glass, although one could then also question why him being American needs to be mentioned in the lede (not really!). I still think there's a compromise to be had here. Since this is an intractable problem, causing arguments on the talk page and biting of new users and edit warring on the article itself, it would seem that a vocal minority of our readers aren't happy with the status quo and haven't been for some time. So there must be a compromise somewhere. I liked what Trillfendi came up with, but that doesn't seem to fly with others. There must be some way of encapsulating this gentleman's ancestry that has led him to be being bilingual and having a French name, close enough to the top of the article to satisfy the French, but not so much at the top as to insult the Americans, regardless of our guidelines on this type of thing if needs be. We can puzzle this out together! — TREY MATURIN has spoken 18:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I agree with the compromise you gave. Not wanting to put the fact that he has a significant amount of French to him (last name, first name, his sister who lives in France, his father who is also a well-known personality in France, and the many trips that Mr. Chalomet makes in France ) is outside of all logic. Look on the Wikipedias of other countries, it is mentioned that he is American and French
Make an effort, or else this edit war will never end Hatrant ( talk) 22:13, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

@ Hatrant: - I've reverted your edits for now because the "majority of users" like you claimed in this discussion did NOT agree to change the wording. [1] It seems to be only you and perhaps Trey Maturin who have added discussion about adding "French". Past discussions have already already shown why users were against this. Chalamet was born in France, his career is not primarily active there, and he resides in the United States. He is as "French" as Scarlett Johansson is "Danish" or Sandra Bullock is "German". I'm keeping it at just American got now. Another user, @ ScottishFinnishRadish: already mentions that his ancestry is mentioned throughout the article. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 01:22, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

An RFC might be wise at this point, to get broader input, and establish a firm consensus for the future. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 01:29, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
it's really only americans who think their country is better than the others. For the examples you gave, replace the en. in the url for de. or fr. or any other country and you will see that we respect each other by including all nationalities. We need a pool to vote Hatrant ( talk) 10:18, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Trey Maturin Idk what to do with theses people, you are neutral, do you know how can we build a consensus? Hatrant ( talk) 12:15, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Hatrant: For starters you can stop edit warring. –– FormalDude talk 12:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I'll stop. I just want to find a compromise Hatrant ( talk) 12:18, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

RFC on nationality in the lead and shortdesc

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is a clear consensus for option A. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 19:08, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


How should the subject's nationality be described in the lead and short description?

  • A) Lead: Timothée Hal Chalamet is an American actor. Shortdesc: American actor (born 1995)
  • B1) Lead: Timothée Hal Chalamet is an American and French actor. Shortdesc: American and French actor (born 1995)
  • B2) Lead: Timothée Hal Chalamet is a Franco-American actor. Shortdesc: Franco-American actor (born 1995)
  • C) Lead: Timothée Chalamet is an American actor with dual French citizenship. Shortdesc: American actor with dual French citizenship (born 1995)

It will be nice to have a solid consensus derived from an RFC on this point, as it has been a frequent topic of disagreement. I've taken the three most recent wordings, and as the second and third options are still in favor of including French nationality I've labeled them B1 and B2. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 18:51, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

I fixed a typo per the fish and added Timtempleton's suggested prose. Figured the addition is fine as there are no !votes yet. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 22:34, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Poll

  • A - Just American per WP:ETHNICITY. His infobox and biography already mention and provide an extensive list of sources about his French father and Chalamet's dual citizenship. The United States is where he was born, primarily raised in, educated in, resides in and is the country where he first gained notability as an actor. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 06:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
  • A is my first choice. His French heritage is only one aspect of his notability but the vast majority of his life has been in New York. Trillfendi ( talk) 16:53, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
  • I have tried to stay neutral in this dispute, seeking a compromise, but I'm prepared at this point to abandon neutrality and become WP:NACINV and thus unable to offer any dispute resolution here in future. So: B1 was, I thought, an elegant solution by Trillfendi. Failing that, C would also seem to meet the criteria for compromise I was seeking earlier between our guidelines and the views of our readers. Count that as my !vote. — TREY MATURIN has spoken 17:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
  • B2, because he is a dual citizen and this is important. Seggallion ( talk) 14:58, 17 June 2022 (UTC) sock puppet of banned user
  • A per MOS:FIRSTBIO. Not only does the option encompass Chalamet's citizenship, nationality, and place of permanent residency, but most reliable sources describe Chalamet as an American actor. His French citizenship is documented in the body and infobox. That's more than sufficient. KyleJoan talk 15:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
  • A having a foreign-born parent, and possibly dual citizenship, is common to Americans. It's usually not mentioned in the first sentence. Two of the last three U.S. presidents had a foreign-born parent. In fact, I was surprised that our Barack Obama article doesn't even mention that his father was born in Kenya anywhere in the first five paragraphs. That seems a lot more notable. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 16:35, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
  • A for point 3 in MOS:FIRSTBIO, which states "Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable." His American citizenship gives the location, nationality in by which he gained notability. Writethisway ( talk) 05:04, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Summoned by bot. My suggestion for the lead: Timothée Chalamet is an American actor with dual French citizenship. Shortdesc: American actor with dual French citizenship (born 1995) My reasoning is that we need to provide his nationality for context, and it's incorrect to say just American, so we should include a mention of his dual citizenship. I changed the wording in the body to explain that his citizenship is dual due to his father being French. I think this properly explains the situation but de-emphasizes the impact that being part French has on his current life and career, which from what I see is not very much. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 21:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
    But then that would also overemphasise his French citizenship, which would now become the first piece of information given about Chalamet after stating that he is an actor. — Golden call me maybe? 22:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
    I can see why there would be that perception, but we need to include his nationality near the start for proper context, and there's no denying that he's dual American and French. I think saying dual and then explaining later it's because of his father balances the fine line between overemphasizing and ignoring the detail. But it's a tricky subject, which is why it's an RfC now. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 22:45, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
    I agree that this a tricky subject, but users can look to his infobox and biography if they want to see the mention of his dual citizenship. As an example, Avril Lavigne is also a dual French citizen with a French-born father, but an RfC (which mentioned policies like WP:ETHNICITY iirc) agreed that her notability as an entertainer was in Canada, not France. Which is a similar scenario with Chalamet. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 06:47, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
  • In B2, it should be "an" → "a". -- Tryptofish ( talk) 22:21, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
  • In B2, " French American" would be a better (and more common) term than Franco-American. — Golden call me maybe? 22:43, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
    I think either of those would be covered by B2, if someone has a preference. It's even in the lead of French American, French Americans or Franco-Americans... ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 11:00, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2022

In the section "career" under "Breakthrough and rise to prominence"

Change "In his final film of 2017, Scott Cooper's western Hostiles, Chalamet played a young soldier Philippe DeJardin, Christian Bale.[18]"

To "In his final film of 2017, Scott Cooper's western Hostiles, Chalamet played a young soldier Philippe DeJardin, alongside Christian Bale.[18]" Svme289 ( talk) 15:05, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done Handmeanotherbagofthemchips ( talk) 16:12, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2022

Timothée Hal Chalamet (English: /ˈtɪməθi ˈʃæləmeɪ/;[2][3] French: [timɔte ʃalamɛ]; born December 27, 1995) is an American actor. He has received various accolades, including nominations for an Academy Award, two Golden Globe Awards, and three BAFTA Film Awards.

To

Timothée Hal Chalamet (English: /ˈtɪməθi ˈʃæləmeɪ/;[2][3] French: [timɔte ʃalamɛ]; born December 27, 1995) is an French-American actor. He has received various accolades, including nominations for an Academy Award, two Golden Globe Awards, and three BAFTA Film Awards. SwaxawS ( talk) 21:11, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{ edit semi-protected}} template. Please review the RFC above this section. This has been discussed at length. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 21:30, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Option A ?

So, like always, it's america in all and for all ? Consensus for A ? By who ? Americans Wikipedia editor ? This actor said himself he is french and american. Not just american. It's always the same with you... 2A02:8440:210E:B0F2:0:47:AC5E:6801 ( talk) 15:21, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

This topic has been discussed and settled (see archive links in the box at the top of this page). Unless you have new information that does not appear in that discussion, there is no need to post about it again. Krychek ( talk) 15:14, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Indeed, it's the only low-ceilinged people, on all the other country wikis it's specified American and French, except here :) You know Americain and theire pride... But hey, who cares if it comforts them, they won't change the facts even if they would like Hatrant ( talk) 22:21, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

"Sex symbol"

"Off-screen, he has been labeled as a sex symbol and a fashion icon."

Probably labeled that way by her fans. Just search 'male sex symbols' or 'fashion icons' on Google Images and you won't find a single reference to this guy. It's surprising that Wikipedia allows these lines, with that "neutral point of view" that you claim to have. Parispv ( talk) 21:34, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@ Parispv: A quick look at the body of the article shows the claims backed up by citations in Esquire and Vogue, respectively. — C.Fred ( talk) 04:20, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
I don't deny the sources. Vanity Fair can say that Steve Buscemi is a sex symbol and you would still believe them. My objection is that the sentence is totally irrelevant to the short description. Not Brad Pitt, not Johnny Depp, not even Elvis has this line. Parispv ( talk) 05:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

dating history

I think in the personal life section there should be some information about his dating history, as there if for others :) Vinhard ( talk) 09:23, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:NOTGOSSIP. InfiniteNexus ( talk) 06:55, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2023

Ann5623 (
talk) 02:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Born in Mount Sini West, New York, NY.

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil ( talk) 03:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

UNICEF correction

I corrected that UNICEF stands for United Nations Children's Fund--it is not United Nations Children's EMERGENCY Fund--and it was reverted. Why? What the heck is going on? If one goes to the program's page, it is clear that my correction was appropriate. 173.90.75.20 ( talk) 02:18, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. Restored your edit. Nardog ( talk) 02:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2023

I would like to add to the Personal Life section the recent update that Timothee Chalamet is reportedly dating media mogul Kyle Jenner. 2603:7000:46F0:150:984:C5CD:A9B2:574C ( talk) 19:22, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton ( talk) 21:06, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Let's close the Nationnality debate in the first sentense

The topic of Timothée Chalamet's nationality and identity is a controversial one, with some people arguing that he is purely American while others contend that he is a proud Franco-American. Chalamet's background and upbringing have been the subject of much debate, with evidence on both sides of the argument. In this discussion, we will explore the evidence that suggests that Timothée Chalamet is a Franco-American actor, and examine the factors that have contributed to his connection to both French and American cultures. As you know wikipedia aims to be unbiased and to write facts. This is why I would like to bring new elements which prove that timothée chalamet is indeed franch-american:

First of all, Chalamet has acted in French-language films and has spoken French in interviews. In 2017, he starred in the film "Call me by your name", which required him to speak French fluently and played with French actors. In this GQ magazine interview, the filmmaker Guadagnino, that produced a large part of the films where chalamet played, and who knows him very well, said: "Timmy is half American and half French, and we implemented this part of his essence. We made sure we could really use his Frenchness, the multilingual personality, and also his personality." Denis Villeneuve, producer of Dune also said "he's a very intelligent young man, maybe because of having the combination of american culture, french culture" in this interview (timecode: 4:00): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_xajvq2xkQ . Chalamet has also spoken French in interviews with French media outlets, demonstrating his ability to switch between both languages effortlessly.

In this interview the presenter asks timothée: "timothée, you who are both french and american (timothée says yes of the head), on which side your personality swings?" Timothée replied that for the film it was his European side (or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzVhNZMxTc&t=512s)

Secondly, Chalamet has frequently referenced his French background in interviews and on social media. For example, in an interview with W Magazine, he discussed his upbringing in a bilingual household and how it influenced his decision to learn Italian for the film "Call Me By Your Name". He has also shared photos on Instagram of himself with his French grandmother and has mentioned her in interviews as someone who has influenced his life.

Thirdly, Timothée Chalamet was born in New York City to a French father and an American mother. His father, Marc Chalamet, is a French-born writer and editor, who worked for the United Nations. Chalamet has stated in interviews that he grew up speaking both French and English at home, which indicates his strong connection to his French heritage because 50% of his family is French.

If we refer to the definition, the term "French-American" refers to individuals who have both French and American nationalities, or those who have a strong connection to both French and American cultures. This can include individuals who were born to French and American parents, or those who have lived in both countries and have adopted aspects of both cultures into their identity. French-Americans often have a deep appreciation for French language, art, and cuisine, while also embracing the American values of individualism and freedom. Timothée Chalamet, with his French father and American mother, and his upbringing in a bilingual household, is an example of someone who can be considered a French-American.

In conclusion, Timothée Chalamet's French heritage and upbringing, as well as his references to and work in the French language, all provide strong evidence that he is not just American but a proud Franco-American.

In order to support my remarks, here are reputable non-francophone media that have given the name "french-american" to timothée: Vogue,nationaltoday, lofficiel, flicks and uk.yahoo said "he's french-american"

(sources: https://www.vogue.fr/vogue-hommes-en/article/story12-fun-facts-about-timothee-chalamet2403 https://nationaltoday.com/birthday/timothee-chalamet/ https://uk.yahoo.com/topics/timoth%C3%A9e-chalamet/ https://www.lofficielusa.com/film-tv/timothee-chalamet-dune-french-dispatch-release https://www.lofficiel.co.uk/film-tv/timothee-chalamet-dune-french-dispatch-release-goldenboy https://www.flicks.co.uk/features/will-2023-be-the-year-of-peak-timothee-chalamet/)

@ Krimuk2.0 I really would like to have your opinion Hatrant ( talk) 17:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

There was already an RFC on this here. We'd need to have a new RFC if we want to change it. I for one am fine with it saying French-American, but I'll respect what the community decides. Krimuk2.0 ( talk) 18:35, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback @ Krimuk2.0! I created the RFC if you want to express yourself Hatrant ( talk) 08:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Some of the disinformation here should be corrected. 50% of Chalamet's family is not French. 25% of his ancestry is French. He has one French-born grandparent, his paternal grandfather. As the article states, his paternal grandmother was originally Canadian, and she wasn't French-Canadian. Call Me by Your Name (film) is a film listed as being from four countries, Italy, the United States, France, and Brazil. It was filmed and set in Italy. The director is Italian. The screenwriter is American. It was based on an American novel by an Egyptian-born writer. Neither of the four lead actors in the film, Chalamet included, were born in France. Most of Chalamet's dialogue is in English. Not one of Chalamet's other films in his entire filmography has France listed as even a co-production country (in fact, one, Bones and All, is also a co-Italian film, so maybe there's a better case for listing Chalamet as an Italian-American actor). As I mention below, the film The French Dispatch is actually American and Chalamet's dialogue in it is in English. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 21:26, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Pronunciation of name

Currently, there are three pronunciation guides for his name: English: /ˈtɪməθi ˈʃæləmeɪ/ TIM-əth-ee SHAL-ə-may, French: [timɔte ʃalamɛ]

How many do we actually need in the opening line? Krimuk2.0 ( talk) 07:59, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Someone removed the French pronunciation. Guess this should suffice. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:09, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
We need just as many as are relevant; considering his name is fully French and his French descent directly goes back to his own father, the French IPA seems relevant to me. 〜 イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（ 会話） 08:55, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

RFC: Nationality in the lead and shortdesc

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is a clear consensus for option A. Rockyscreen ( talk) 11:12, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

How should Timothée Chalamet's nationality be described in the lead and short description?

  • A) Lead: Timothée Hal Chalamet is a French-American actor. Shortdesc: French-American actor (born 1995)
  • B) Lead: Timothée Hal Chalamet is an American actor. Shortdesc: American actor (born 1995)

This RFC aims to discuss whether Timothée Chalamet's current mention as an "American actor" on Wikipedia accurately reflects his identity. Some argue that Chalamet's French heritage, bilingual upbringing, and references to French culture in his work and through his father and sister suggest that he should be referred to as a "French-American actor" instead. Others argue that he was born and raised in the United States and should be referred to as an "American actor". The RFC invites input from all users to determine the most accurate way to describe Chalamet's nationality on Wikipedia. Hatrant ( talk) 20:02, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Poll

I vote A) He literally said "I'm french" in this talk show (timecode 4:18) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYKza0EQS-E 2A07:23C0:0:7000:0:0:0:5B0E ( talk) 20:52, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Nice spoted I didin't notice it ! This plus my previous comment ( /info/en/?search=Talk:Timoth%C3%A9e_Chalamet#Let's_close_the_Nationnality_debate_in_the_first_sentense) are the reasons why I vote A Hatrant ( talk) 20:58, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
  • ( Summoned by bot) I think we must determine this based upon what the reliable secondary sources say, not upon our analysis. If the sources cited in the preceding section are representatives, then it should be A Coretheapple ( talk) 21:54, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
  • This RfC is a bit malformed since the correct option is missing. Per MOS:NATIONALITY it should be French and American. In cases of public or relevant dual citizenship, or a career that spans a subject's emigration, the use of the word and reduces ambiguity. Nemov ( talk) 02:31, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
  • After reading all the sources and arguments above, it seems to me obvious to me that he's French-American, so A. Ledess31 ( talk) 08:21, 14 April 2023 (UTC) sockstrike ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 17:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I'd go with option A too: "French and American actor". Krimuk2.0 ( talk) 10:25, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
  • I could live with "French-American" but I'm 60% leaning toward the American side as he was born and raised in America and heavily associated with New York as a fourth generation New Yorker who grew up in a famous New York apartment building, so my vote will go to B at this time. Trillfendi ( talk) 21:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    Thank you for your input. I understand your argument that Timothée Chalamet was born and raised in America and has strong associations with New York. However, it's important to consider that he has also frequently referenced his French heritage in interviews (himself and filmmakers says that his strength comes mainly from his dual culture), on social media, and has even acted in French-language films. This suggests that he has a strong connection to both French and American cultures. In the answers below some users have found documents where timothée considers himself French in addition to American. Therefore, some users have proposed using the term "French and American" to accurately reflect his identity and It will respect the MOS:NATIONALITY chart . In view of these new elements, could this term suit you? Hatrant ( talk) 22:35, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
    That's not a good argument. I "frequently reference" my Scottish heritage (and have a whole website about it at [2]), but I should not be described as a "Scottish-American" (or "Scots-American" or "Scotch-American") if I were notable. In Chalamet's case, his self-identity with his French ancestry belongs in the body of the article, under his private life. What actually complicates this case is that he has a French-immigrant father and he holds dual American and French citizenship. It has nothing to do with how Frenchy he "feels".  —  SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:52, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

*We all agree that timothée is mostly american, this is his main country, no one can deny that. However, it cannot be denied either that his French culture seems very important and present to him, which is why I think it is fair to put A (I'm also ok with French and American actor)

(if it helps in your decision, he's also marked as being french-american in this article /info/en/?search=List_of_French_Americans) BahakFlo ( talk) 23:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC) sockstrike ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 17:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
If I could just comment @ BahakFlo - that page includes any notable American with some degree of French heritage. It's what the term " French-American" often means. Even Beyoncé is listed because she has some degree of French ancestry. But she and many others mentioned don't have French citizenship or any substantial connection to France beyond partial heritage. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 12:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
A - Citizenship counts for a lot. Add in family + time spent in france + french-language works and I'd say that it's justifiable, even if he did spend most of his life in America. One Faraway ( talk) 14:34, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
B - So many famous people have multiple citizenship but are primarily American or whatever nationality first and foremost. His birth, residence, career and so on have not been primarily in France. This has usually been the consensus in past discussions. There was one last year. Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 11:44, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
B - A career that spans the subject's emigration? Relevant dual citizenship? Neither criteria from MOS:NATIONALITY is fulfilled here. He isn't an emigrant and there's no evidence having dual citizenship has impacted his career. Joe Biden has said "I'm Irish" many times (i.e. here and here). Should he be listed as "an Irish-American President" in the first sentence? Lady Gaga has said "I"m Italian," Taylor Swift has said "I'm Scottish," telling a Scottish crowd "I'm one of you," and Jessica Alba has said "I'm Mexican." Americans having a foreign-born parent is very common (and isn't even the case for the people I just mentioned), as is making statements self-identifying with another country. What's also interesting is that in the years since this discussion started, Chalamet has still not worked in a French film or lived in France. Even in The French Dispatch, an American film, he was evidently not playing a French character. Why make this change now? All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 15:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
"no evidence having dual citizenship has impacted his care" if you read the text above ( Let's close the Nationality debate in the first sentense) then you will see that there are several elements which show that his French nationality is very important for his career
Otherwise I encourage you to tell me why the arguments are wrong Hatrant ( talk) 20:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
How is it important in his career? It is not. He does not live in France and doesn't work in French cinema. The list of Americans with foreign-born parents and apparent dual citizenship is very long. Very few if any of them are listed as anything but American in the first sentence. And declarations of "I'm Irish," "I'm Swedish," "I'm Welsh," and so on are very common, as I've said, and don't have anything to do with the article intro, either. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 21:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your input on this discussion. However, I would like to clarify that the aim of this RFC is not to determine whether Timothée Chalamet has dual citizenship or whether he is an immigrant. Rather, it is to accurately reflect his cultural identity in the article intro.
Chalamet has consistently referenced his French background in interviews and on social media, and has demonstrated a strong connection to French culture through his work in French language films and his collaborations with directors who use this double culture in their films (see comments of filmmaker Guadagnino and Denis Villeneuve). As such, it is important to accurately reflect his cultural identity as a Franco-American actor in the article intro.
Regarding the comparison to other public figures who have referenced their foreign heritage, it is important to note that the situation is different for Chalamet given his strong connection to French culture and his work in French language films. Additionally, the article intro should accurately reflect the subject's identity and not just their legal nationality.
While it may be common for Americans to reference their foreign heritage, it is important to consider the extent to which it influences their work and identity. In the case of Chalamet, his French heritage and work in films are significant aspects of his career and should be reflected in the article intro.
Therefore, I believe that changing Chalamet's nationality on Wikipedia to "French-American actor" would provide a more accurate and comprehensive understanding of his background and identity. Thank you for considering this perspective. Hatrant ( talk) 21:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Chalamet is exponentially more associated with France than those others are with the countries of their ancestral heritage though. He holds the passport and was raised speaking the French language. Joe Biden's ancestors came to America literally 200 years ago. Trillfendi ( talk) 21:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
No he is not. He's never even played a French person! (his minor supporting role in Hostiles is debatable). John F. Kennedy was associated with his Irish heritage and Barack Obama is associated with his Kenyan ancestry, and neither one is listed as anything but American in the first sentence. Lady Gaga, by the way, is of three quarters Italian descent to Chalamet's one quarter French; where is the proof that she is less associated with being Italian-American than Chalamet being French-American? How does one quantify these things? Having French ancestry isn't why Chalamet is notable, which is easily quantified by the fact that he's never made a French film or played a French character. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 21:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
It doesn’t matter that he’s never played a French person so far nor that only one quarter of his DNA is French (as we know, there are millions of French people like Omar Sy who are not French at all ethnically) when he’s a French national legally. Let’s not get ridiculous. Trillfendi ( talk) 21:20, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Omar Sy was born and raised in France and is famous almost entirely for French film roles. Plenty of Americans have dual citizenship, it's never or almost never in their first sentence. How many American-born actors can you find who are listed as "X-American" in the first sentence on Wikipedia? All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 22:22, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
after only 2 minutes of research and I have many more :
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Charlize Theron, Jim Carrey, Natalie Portman, Nicki Minaj, Nicole Kidman, Alanis Morissette
It's just to show you that you are basing yourself on assumptions, a Wikipedia article must be based on reliable sources and not on "we say" or "we have to do it like that because elsewhere it's done like that" it goes against quality information Hatrant ( talk) 22:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
don't be ridiculous, there is no need to play a fictional French character to have a strong affiliation with French culture... Especially since he has played several scenes entirely in French since you care so much about it. You seem very uninformed and don't seem to want to be informed, it's unfortunate Hatrant ( talk) 21:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
I seem to be very informed of Chalamet's roles, none of which have been in French films or playing French people. Speaking a few lines of dialogue in French doesn't define his career. Robert De Niro spoke Italian for much of his performance in The Godfather Part II, for which he won an Oscar, and he is described simply as "American" in the intro, even having played numerous Italian-American characters. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 22:22, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
  • A - "French-American" or "French and American" or "American and French" are all equally acceptable to me, and seem to be backed by proper reliable sources. The "Frenchness" of his career is a key feature of his identity and what he is known for, so it absolutely must go in the lead sentence of the lead of the article. Fieari ( talk) 02:58, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
    • How is 25% of his ancestry what he's known for? His most known films are Call Me By Your Name, set in Italy, Little Women, set in Civil War-era Massachusetts, Dune, set in space, and so on. In none of these films are his characters French. Robert De Niro is of one quarter Italian descent and has an Italian passport, and is associated with having played many Italian-American characters, but even De Niro is simply listed as "American" in the intro (ditto Al Pacino). On the other hand, Chalamet has never even played a French person, with the possible exception of his fairly minor supporting role in Hostiles. So what is the difference between De Niro and Chalamet, other than that De Niro has won two Oscars for playing Italian-American characters and Chalamet has never played a French character? This is being transformed into a sui generis case that looks nothing like all the other actor pages on Wikipedia. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 21:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
      but there is no need to play a fictional character of a culture to pretend to belong to it, you are ridiculous Hatrant ( talk) 21:42, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Yes of course, but if he hasn't played French characters and hasn't worked in French cinema, then how is it a defining aspect of his career? Here's a quick litmus test: how many (prominent or reasonably prominent) actors can people find on Wikipedia who are listed as "X-American" in the opening sentence, who were born in the United States? All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 22:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
I would like to direct you to Hatrant's reply above. I would agree with what he said pretty much word-for-word. Fieari ( talk) 02:46, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
  • B per my response in the previous RfC. The sources cited in the previous section are not representative of how non-francophone media commonly describe Chalamet–the list also includes Vogue France, which is based in Paris, so I'm not sure how this source supports that point. A larger sample of (also not US-based) sources that includes BBC News, Belfast Telegraph, The Daily Telegraph, GQ Australia, The Guardian, The Indian Express, Irish Examiner, Reuters, Screen Daily, Sky News, South China Morning Post, The Straits Times, Vogue Singapore clearly shows "American actor" or "US actor" as the most common description. KyleJoan talk 02:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
    Those sources are kind of irrelevant in this case since his dual citizenship is well publicized. Per, MOS:NATIONALITY in cases of public or relevant dual citizenship it should be French and American. Nemov ( talk) 14:38, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
  • A, and fully agree with Nemov's comment; the correct option should be "French and American". Not sure why people keep arguing about the same thing in every article where the subject is an actor with multiple nationalities... MOS:NATIONALITY should be clear enough, no? Coconutyou3 ( talk) 12:41, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
  • A, as "French-American" or as "American and French" (not "French and American", since he was born and raised in the US). His father is a French immigrant to the US, and he also holds dual citizenship, so just "American" seems to be off the table.  —  SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:52, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I'm sorry, but wasn't there already an RFC on this 10 months ago? It was started by @ ScottishFinnishRadish:, following nationality discussion by the same user who started this RFC and leaned overwhelmingly towards just " American". I understand this is a contentious issue, but multiple past discussions seemed to agree on just stating "American" because of his birth and primary notability in America/American cinema. I'm not saying there shouldn't be new discussion but it seems odd to have yet another RFC when the one last year and past discussions seemed to lay down why he's just "American". Clear Looking Glass ( talk) 12:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    Pinging @ Trey Maturin, KyleJoan, All Hallow's Wraith, Writethisway, Timtempleton, Golden, and Tryptofish: who were involved in the last RFC less than a year ago and have not responded yet. I think that covers everyone from the prior RFC, who really should have been notified if there is going to be another RFC with the exact same question less than a year later. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 12:57, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    I !voted in that RfC purely as a way of backing out of trying to mediate the dispute (which had resulted in both sides deciding I was a Very Bad Person who was biased towards their opposition, because no good deed goes unpunished on Wikipedia). My views, in so far as I have any, have not changed from what I said there: a compromise is likely the best option. Therefore, the shortening of the previous three nuanced choices down to just two mutually antagonistic ones here seems counterproductive. — Trey Maturin™ 17:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    Thank you for the ping. I'm neutral about this issue, and my involvement last time was just to correct a typo. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 18:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    I just put new elements which in my opinion justify a new RFC, moreover I had not been able to participate in the last one Hatrant ( talk) 20:40, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    I don't know if you've read them @ Clear Looking Glass @ ScottishFinnishRadish @ KyleJoan @ All Hallow's Wraith @ Timtempleton @ Golden, I'd be curious to hear your opinion Hatrant ( talk) 21:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
    I don't have a problem with referring to Chalamet as either 'American' or 'French-American'. However, using the term 'French and American actor' could imply that he is active in French cinema, which, to my knowledge, he is not. Chalamet is of French origin but works as an actor in America, making him an 'American actor'. Therefore, I am inclined to refer to him as such. — Golden call me maybe? 14:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Just noting that I've blocked BahakFlo and Ledess31 as socks of Hatrant, who I have also blocked. I've struck the two sockpuppet !votes, but left Hatrant's, who also started this RFC. I'm not striking the initial IP response as a sock, but the IP is from a webhost and is likely more sockpuppetry. There have been a lot of good faith responses to the RFC, so I think at this point the best bet is to just let it ride? ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 17:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)


I think we can close this RFC, there is a clear consensus for A, and it seems that the "American and French actor" option is the most requested. Number of voters: 15
 Number of A: 11 (73.33%)
 Number of B: 4 (26.67%)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

British Vogue Cover

It states he was on the cover of British vogue in 2022 and was the first male to do so for the magazine. Harry Styles appeared in December 2019 for American Vogue. Is it considered the same magazine Chowwiki ( talk) 04:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2023

Secretfactchecker28 (
talk) 21:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
Not in the US, where Wikipedia is based. 76.130.80.169 ( talk) 16:11, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

I only want to change soccer player to football/soccer player

I want to do this because most people still call the sport football and not soccer

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime ( open channel) 22:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Adding "(dropped out)" to the college section (or removing college altogether) on infobox

I noticed that, in the longer biography, it mentions how Chalamet left NYU to pursue acting but on his infobox it isn't mentioned that he dropped out - see Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg.

Another option would be like Ashton Kutcher and Lady Gaga where college is mentioned in their larger biographies/early life sections but is not included on their infobox given they did not graduate or dropped out early (as Chalamet did). 128.232.238.2 ( talk) 11:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Add Kylie Jenner as partner.

He is on her Infobox as partner, but not vice versa. 193.3.34.10 ( talk) 19:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Can we add Kylie jenner as partner?

Kylie Jenner Fruit ninjas yummy ( talk) 15:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2024

I want to change put his Girlfriends name on the relatives list Amaia3434 ( talk) 07:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 98 𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 08:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I propose of changing the infobox image to higher resolution one.

I propose of changing the infobox image to higher resolution one for better recognition. EleniXDD※ Talk 13:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Edit-warring

Instead of edit-warring, 98Tigerius, please explain why this info sourced with Variety is "non-constructive"? Not only that, you're also reverting an update of Wonka's box-office gross. Unbelievable. Krimuk2.0 ( talk) 17:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

@ Krimuk2.0: Apologize, I didn't notice that because your citation format is break so that's why I reverted it as "non-constructive". 98 𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 18:03, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. Krimuk2.0 ( talk) 18:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation

Chalamet has stated several times that his given name (Timothée) is meant to be pronounced in the French way (something like tim-o-tay) and that while he will accept the anglicized "Timothy" pronunciation the French form is his "actual" name. I think it's a little disrespectful to not reflect this preference in his Wikipedia page, particularly when it's his actual legal name and tied directly to his heritage (and said Wikipedia page claims he has expressed something of a cultural identity crisis over his dual French-American identity). 2603:7080:CF41:6262:98DB:420F:B3CA:E6AF ( talk) 19:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Chalamet is on record as saying that while the French pronunciation is what his parents intended, he is "not going along with that," meaning his actual preference is whatever people are most comfortable with. Since most people in his country of origin (the U.S.) are more comfortable with the English pronunciation, that is what is reported. What is disrespectful is when French people act like they own everything that has a French spelling. Krychek ( talk) 14:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Main Picture from 2019 too old

Hello! Thank you for reading my little request. I propose changing out the main head shit picture. It was taken from an interview he was in while promoting Beautiful Boy in 2018-19. It's not a profile looking picture, it is a still of him talking. How about a more glam head shot from one of his recent movies premiers, like from Wonka or Dune2?? Thanks ever so much for the consideration. K 72.231.251.176 ( talk) 00:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay Done 👍🏻 45.15.43.195 ( talk) 13:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
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