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The hacktivist group known as Anonymous have done it again to the Westboro Baptist Church. This time, they hacked into their Facebook page and made all sorts of changes to the page, such as putting up positive images and links to many of their YouTube videos. There have also been many responses by many users on Facebook. Below is their page so you can see it for yourselves:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Westboro-Baptist-Church/400347320041300
I don't know if the church has many changes or fixings to their page on Facebook, but their page looked like an endorsement for Anonymous after this latest hacking by them.
I just thought that I would share this latest news. Any thoughts or comments? Frschoonover ( talk) 15:44, 17 April 2013 (UTC)t
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[Clear BLP violation redacted] Hannahlou92x ( talk) 19:49, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I added "self-proclaimed" before "Baptist" in the lead, but I was reverted by NatGertler. The church is not a member of any of the two major Baptist denominations ( Baptist World Alliance and the Southern Baptist Convention), and they have been denounced as not being Baptist by both. The church has no ties to any other Baptist church or denomination. If you search for "Westboro Baptist Church "not baptist"" on Google, you get tons of reliable sources saying that they are not Baptist. Therefore, I think it is appropriate to call it "self-proclaimed Baptist". Liquid Water 18:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Religions split. Each splinter claims it is "the" faith. We can easily find sources stating that any given church is not X, Y or Z, though the church itself claims it it X, Y and Z. The best way to handle this, IMO, is self-labeling: "WBC states they are X, Y and Z". Otherwise, we're left with having to explain that the "Roman Catholic" faith is neither specifically "Roman" nor necessarily "catholic". If various Baptist groups wish to state that WBC is not "Baptist", they are free to do so. If independent reliable sources cover their statement, we might mention it. - SummerPhD ( talk) 22:08, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
But... they are Baptist. That is to say, they hold to Believer's baptism. But that presumably isn't what people mean when they say WBC is "not Baptist". I would have more of a problem with the "Calvinist" label, which is not discussed at all in the article. St Anselm ( talk) 11:42, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
This conversation is extremely depressing. Editors are trying to work out theological issues for themselves, when reliable sources like NRK were already presented showing WBC as a sect independent of Baptism. This desire to take theology into your own hands is not only against Wikipedia policies, it's the same process that got WBC started in the first place. Shii (tock) 23:43, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Is that what we need here? Sources? Okay.
Shii (tock) 01:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I should also point out that the WBC doesn't claim to be evangelical, so the Norwegian source's statement on that is irrelevant (quite apart from the fact that "evangelical" has a range of meanings, and is used differently in Europe and America). Also, none of the sources mentioned above say that WBC isn't a Baptist church - they point out what they are denominationally unaffiliated, which we all knew, and which the article clearly states. St Anselm ( talk) 02:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe most readers will be greatly interested in whether they are 'true' baptists in any theological sense. A section treating the question of whether they are or are not Baptists in various senses is fine, but an editorialising 'self-proclaimed' implies too much a point of view that there is an official definition that they fall outside of. William Avery ( talk) 07:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American church founded in 1955. WBC identifies as an "Old School (or Primitive) Baptist Church" and is known for its extreme ideologies, especially those against gay people.
We have to avoid using the term Independent Baptist in describing WBC; while they are independent and while they are Baptist (to our ability to officially discern), that combination of two words has an additional meaning (as you will see at the wikilink) that we do not have sourced as applying to this group. Assuming my Internet is back up later today, I will excise it from the article myself. (IPad is not the ideal wikiediting device.) - Nat Gertler ( talk) 19:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
The instant addition of their comments on today's tornado just points to something that I've been meaning to bring up for a while: whenever they tweet in the wake of a tragedy, some website somewhere will point out that they made the tweet, and frequently, someone will add that to the page. While this is an understandable instinct, what this ends up doing is basically building a list of tragedies in America. They do so many protests and tweet so many things that offend folks that it's really largely trivia, and the article could end up nigh-infinite under this method.
I would like to suggest that unless a given announcement gets truly substantial coverage, major press coverage about that announcement and its reaction, we leave it out until it shows up in some blanket article on the WBC.
Concur? Disagree? Countersuggest? -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 04:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
After the plane crash on 25th February 2009 on Schiphol airport, The Netherlands, it was reported that the WBC where going to try to picket the rememberance service of those who died during the plane crash. Also it has been reported that they have been spreading pamflets which stated "God hates the Netherlands" because of the liberal opinion of the Netherlands regarding the LGBT community.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/23307/westboro-baptist-church-13 http://sjeltur.nl/westboro-baptist-church-goin-dutch http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.radionetherlands.nl/thenetherlands/criticaleye/090306-god-hates-holland-redirected http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20090225_netherlands-amsterdam-plane-crash.pdf
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.97.239.18 ( talk) 15:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The interview with Sean Hannity (can easily find it on YouTube) is very telling about their beliefs, and the interviewee does not refute that they have nothing to do with any other Baptists. They also proclaim that we should thank God for 9/11, no one who was killed was "innocent", and that it was God who struck them all down, punishing them and us justly for our sins which include accepting homosexuality. Essentially every time something tragic occurs, they claim it is evidence that God is striking us down and punishing us for not condemning gays, as it is his will to condemn the gays. [ They do sound like a hate group masquerading as a Church, and (redacted) ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jjpr2121 ( talk • contribs) 12:15, May 11, 2013
May I suggest, under the funeral picket section, Chief Justice William Rehnquist's funeral be added. Members picket his state funeral in 2005. Be a very notable man, I think it would be good to add this information. here are just a few references. http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Exclusive_Antigay_forces_protest_at_Rehnquist_death_celebra_0918.html It also mentions the picket in this article http://voices.yahoo.com/heath-ledger-funeral-picketed-controversial-839877.html. Thank you for the consideration. Boopydoo1234 ( talk) 00:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
On the old page listing activities by the Westboro Baptist Church, there was a link to a news article about them sending a nasty letter to a dead child's parents. Shouldn't this be included in this article?-- 76.106.245.93 ( talk) 01:24, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Footnotes 60 - 62, as of today, note that the church did not protest at a funeral. This doesn't seem relevant to include things the members did not do. I will trim and allow discussion later under WP:BOLD Polkadreamer ( talk) 15:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
If we cover today's news' it should be within the context of a more general section on those who exited the church. - Nat Gertler ( talk) 13:46, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Let's assume we were working on an article on the Roman Catholic Church. We wouldn't have a list of those who left, though high-profile examples would crop up somewhere (Martin Luther and Henry VIII come to mind). We wouldn't say they "defected" from the Catholic Church. Yes, there has been coverage of some who have left Westboro. WP:WEIGHT is also a concern. A long laundry list of those who have left the church is no more useful than a long laundry list of those the church says their god hates. I'd say we need a brief section with well-sourced discussion, mentioning the higher profile people who have left. - SummerPhD ( talk) 15:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I came here looking for exactly this, so it's disappointing that it's not seen as notable enough. 90.216.207.183 ( talk) 13:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I came to this article after reading a newspaper piece [3]which mentions that the founders granddaughters had left the church, having never heard of WBC before I looked then up and was surprised to find it was not mentioned here, I understand what SummerPhd is saying, in that a full list of people leaving is not possible, however she also states that "Some people who have left the church have been discussed in independent reliable sources. Those we can include" I am sure I am not the only person to believe that the founders grandchildren are significant people to have left and as it is discussed in other media then surely it should be included in the article? It would also appear that I am not the only one looking for this information. Amanda138a ( talk) 01:01, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I am curious as to how the "God hates Fangs" parody in the opening credits of True Blood is any more personal research than God hates Shrimp. This is clearly a parody of the "God hates Fags," and one that is prominent in popular media, being seen by millions of people. Since it a take on the Westboro Baptist placards with the edition of only an 'n'. The citation though not as formal as many is to a direct link to the opening credits, which clearly depicts the "God hates Fangs" parody.
Are these more acceptable references? Both are academic:
"And True Blood's opening title sequence shows a billboard that converts the famous anti-gay slogan of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, "God hates fags," to "God hates fangs," p. 128 William Irwin. True Blood and Philosophy. Hoboken NJ: Wiley & Sons, 2011
"Or to take another example, contrast the fervid discussions of sexual orientation and political community in recent political campaigns with even the most outlandish Southern Gothic storylines of Alan Ball's True Blood; even the shows opening credits riffing on the Westboro Baptist Church with an evangelical church sign reading "God Hates Fangs," . . ." from Paul Zinder's "The World is Less than Perfect" Nontraditional family structures in Deadwood. The Last Western: Deadwood and the End of American Empire. Editors Jennifer Greiman, Paul Stasi. New York: Bloomsbury Academic, 2013. p. 198 Stealthepiscopalian
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Is this site applicable as a protest site against the WBC? http://www.god-does-not-hate-fags.com Tshcomm ( talk) 13:58, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
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In relation to the recent and untimely death of the Fast and Furious actor, Paul Walker, the WBC have announced they intend to protest his funeral, via their twitter feed here and here. I feel this should be added to the list of protests they have announced. JoshR92 ( talk) 11:42, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
(Safe assumption: Any funeral that is in the news is potentially a venue for a WBC protest). Rather than a lengthy and useless list of all of their protests, we report what independent reliable sources say about their activities. - SummerPhD ( talk) 16:10, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
It looks like an editor or three has done some digging through WBC's websites looking for whatever material they considered, um, noteworthy. By "noteworthy", of course, I mean "damning". Yeah, I get it. That said, virtually all of the material from primary sources simply does not belong here. To the extent that independent reliable sources discuss an aspect of WBC, we should be summarizing and including it. Digging through their garbage for content, though, is no way to build an objective article. - SummerPhD ( talk) 05:52, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
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Please correct spellings of perform (once), performed (twice) and trespassing (once)
On July 14, 2013, members of a Satanic sect called the "Satanic Temple" performed 'pink mass' rituals over Catherine Idalette Johnson's grave, located in Meridian, Mississippi. Johnson is the mother of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) founder Pastor Fred Phelps. According to Lucien Graves, the church member who preformed the rituals, the ordinances post-humorously transformed the sexual orientation of Johnson from that of heterosexual to homosexual. [1] The ritual was preformed both times for a lesbian and gay couple were represented. [2]Graves commented that the church was also trying to raise awareness for an Indiegogo fund raising campaign to adopt a highway, but Graves also notes that protest could also be an effective counter protest against anyone propagating 'anti-gay' hysteria in the future. Graves threaten the WBC from continuing to conduct 'anti-gay' protest such as picketing. The "Satanic Temple" will target the tombs of Phelp's ancestors such as his father and Grand-Aunt with 'pink mass' rituals. [3]
Scunnyjim ( talk) 03:06, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
References
With the reports about what was on Nathan Phelps's Facebook page, there are likely to be attempts to insert its statements into the article. Please realize that we are dealing with a WP:BLP issue here, that we should wait until there is WP:RS confirmation of Fred Phelps's situation rather than just echoing of the statement of his son. (I would not be surprised if we had such sourcing soon.) -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 15:05, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
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Since Phelps has been excommunicated from the church, you should remove him as minister. -- 76.105.96.92 ( talk) 16:18, 16 March 2014 (UTC) 76.105.96.92 ( talk) 16:18, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
The previous version that mentions that the WBC members "believe they are immortal" is also incorrect according the cite given (TheThinkingAtheist interview with Nate Phelps). They simply believe they'll be alive for the Second Coming, and be assumed into heaven before they die. Quite different. (Sorry if this comment is in the wrong section, I'm pretty new to Talk pages.) mjconnor10 ( talk) 16:09, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
I wonder whether it is correct to call the WBC an extreme group because of its opposition to homosexuality. Such opposition is widespread, and cannot be called extreme. Isn't it the methods of the church which have attracted criticism? Royalcourtier ( talk) 05:18, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I know the issue has been addressed before, but why has their protest at the 2010 Comic-Con, and the hilarious counter-protest been removed from the article? ( http://comicsalliance.com/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/)? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 13:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
It says in one place that they announced they would picket the victims of sandy hook elementary funeral, why doesn't it say if they did or not? It actually has statements like that in a few pages. Thanks, Reedman72 ( talk) 05:44, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
After a diligent search I was unable to find any RS for the allegation that someone "spat" in the face of Shirley Phelps-Roper at Camp Lejune or that there were "40 protesters" and "150 counter-protesters." Blog references located with searches referred to other blogs and one referred to a Kansas City Star story that did not include any support for the cite but instead referred to a Ft. Leavenworth funeral. Activist ( talk) 04:37, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
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The section about parodies is inappropriately disparaging of the Christian faith and inaccurate to the point of confusion. There is one story in the Bible about Jesus expressing anger related to figs, though it is told both in Matthew and Mark.
Current document reads as such:
"Documentation given out at various counter-protests cite biblical verses[195] in which Jesus says that none should eat the fruit of a fig tree (Mark 11:12–14), in which Jesus causes a fig tree to wither (Matthew 21:18–20), and in which God promises, as a punishment, to make someone like bad figs (Jeremiah 29:17). These are genuine citations, but are not the sole mentions of figs in the Bible."
Please edit this paragraph, which seems to lose its neutral tone in the end, to be more informative regarding God's relationship with figs throughout the Bible and less of a snarky attack on the subject of the article. Using the Mark passage and the Matthew passage to create the illusion that there is more fig-hating in the Bible than there really is, while clever on the part of the counter-protesters, is irresponsible in a forum like Wikipedia, where presumably readers want unbiased and factual information as free as possible from hyperbole and other rhetorical tactics. I would advise an editor (and I will be one in four days) to remove all argument from the document and word it simply, "Documentation given out at various counter-protests cite genuine, out-of-context biblical verses that suggest God's disapproval of figs in order to demonstrate the ease with which scripture can be perverted to one's own purposes." Interactive Illuminatus ( talk) 15:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
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In section 4.9 "Parodies" please change: "Other sites and organizations have parodied the slogans of the Westboro Baptist Church, including God Hates Fred Phelps,[197] God Hates Bags,[198] and God Hates Shrimp.[199] The Cooper family in Kevin Smith's 2011 film Red State was reportedly inspired by the Westboro Baptist Church.[200]"
To read: "Other sites and organizations have parodied the slogans of the Westboro Baptist Church, including God Hates Fred Phelps,[197] God Hates Bags,[198] God Hates Shrimp, [199] and God Hates Figs.[200] The Cooper family in Kevin Smith's 2011 film Red State was reportedly inspired by the Westboro Baptist Church.[201]"
Please update footnotes #200 and higher to be #201 and higher and insert footnote #200 as [200] "God hates Figs". God Hates Figs. Retrieved xxx xx, xxxx. The external reference is www.godhatesfigs.org
The website is a political blog with a large proportion of posts being about LGBT issues.
Thank you. 134.50.159.33 ( talk) 08:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Actually each one of those organizations should have a cite to a secondary source to show notability or be removed. -- NeilN talk to me 14:11, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Nowhere in this article can I find a section dealing with the religious beliefs of the WBC; their views on various matters which are of concern to their opponents are spoken of, with a few quotes from the Church as to their reasons, but surely there should be a section dealing with their theological stance and their ideology - in fact that would seem crucial, given that that is the very basis of their protests (which get far more coverage than the Church's actual doctrine).
The piece doesn't seem to be very neutral - I understand that people despise them, and with good reason - but that is no excuse for pretending that the WBC is somehow not the same as the thousands of Christian denominations extant. Phelps Junior is quoted as saying "If I had to take my family to court and convict them of being followers of Christ, I am not sure where I would find the evidence". well personally I suspect the reverse may be true, as it cannot honestly be denied that he is following injunctions from the Christian Bible. But how can anyone know the truth - or otherwise - of Phelps Jr's quote unless they have the information?
Wikipedia should be an unbiased source of information; it is sad to see how easily and without challenge Wiki can be reduced to propaganda against those who we agree to dislike. Tarquin Q. Zanzibar 01:30, 5 April 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by El Badboy! ( talk • contribs)
At "Funeral pickets" section, should this statement "beaten to death by two men allegedly because of his homosexuality" be edited to "beaten to death by two men because of his homosexuality" (no "allegedly")? Oodri3 ( talk) 18:08, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
The description of the Supreme Court case quotes Justice Alito, with a "citation needed" tag. The quote is the first paragraph of Alito's dissent. The case is SNYDER v. PHELPS ( No. 09-751 ) 580 F. 3d 206. Alito's dissent can be found at https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/09-751.ZD.html.
PaulJohnson ( talk) 14:26, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
In addition to conducting anti-gay protests at military funerals, the organization pickets other celebrity funerals and public events.[9]
I have an issue to the word 'other" in this sentence. The Military is made up of Heroes, not Celebrities. Thank you!
RobinLynnK ( talk) 02:21, 13 July 2015 (UTC)RobinLynnK
Do the church believe that Benedict is/was one of the trilogy stated, or will any pope do? Britmax ( talk) 08:01, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Here is a V2.0 draft: please don't delete this so I can continue to draft it to Wikipedia perfection. This is what it read as in the V2.0
Gays and lesbians are a hate group. There isn't much info on bing about lesbians being hateful and denying men women. It is hate speech therapist can't tell people they aren't gay... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD5D:AD10:9CB9:8CA9:C466:DE4F ( talk) 15:04, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
On July 14, 2013, Members of a Satanic sect called the "Satanic Temple" preformed 'pink mass' rituals over the grave of Catherine Idalette Johnson located in Meridian, Mississippi. Johnson is the mother of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) founder Pastor Fred Phelps. According to Lucien Graves, the church member who preformed the rituals, the ordinances post-humorously transformed the sexual orientation of Johnson from that of heterosexual to homosexual.[175] The ritual was preformed both times for a lesbian and gay couple were represented. [176]Graves commented that the church was also trying to raise awareness for an Indiegogo fund raising campaign to adopt a highway, but Graves also notes that protest could also be an effective counter protest against anyone propagating 'anti-gay' hysteria in the future. Graves threaten the WBC from continuing to conduct 'anti-gay' protest such as picketing. The "Satanic Temple" will target Phelps' ancestor's tombs such as his father and Grand-Aunt with 'Pink mass' rituals.[177]
Why is this article semi-protected? 97.126.235.119 ( talk) 22:31, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
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Someone has added material regarding a bombing incident at the Phelps-Roper home. Unless we have a good source indicating that this was done because of WBC involvement, this perhaps should not be included... and in any case, we may want a better source. The material I can find )which are online unlicensed copies of "Topekan gets 16 days in pipe bomb incident" from the Topeka Capital-Journal in April of 1996, has information at odds with what was just added, indicating a perpetrator who was in his twenties rather than a teen, and an earlier article indicates he was arrested in 1995, not 1996. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 14:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
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Where do they get their money and why don't I see that in the article? Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 06:24, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I found the part where it said funding comes from lawsuits. I just added "... According to the Louis Theroux documentary The Most Hated Family in America, members of the Phelps family are expected to have regular jobs and give ten percent of their earnings to the church, and many of them are lawyers..."
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The article does not explain why the WBC is picketing against soldiers. I think we should add it to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.103.154.53 ( talk) 10:51, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Okay, I know we should probably have a lot of citations for an article such as this, but this many?
how many do we need again? -A lad insane (Channel 2) 17:20, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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A law firm is 301 redirecting links from this expired domain to this article. http://www.matthewsnyder.org/ redirects to a commercial law firm.
[1]Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
Alex (
talk) 08:07, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
References
"Members follow the organization's 'literal' interpretation of the Bible which informs their attitudes towards homosexuality and towards Judaism.[32]"
This should contain 'purportedly', or 'they claim', or some such before 'informs'. The interpretations are of course disputed by almost all followers of religions based on the texts in question.
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I can't help but notice that you note that no Baptist organization associates with WBC however, no distinguishing remarks are made to separate WBC from Calvinists or hyper Calvinists. A key component to Calvinism and hyper Calvinism is the doctrine of irresistible grace. While it's true Fred Phelps claims to be Calvinist, if one would take the time to read some of his more hateful statements, you can clearly see he does not actually hold to the doctrine of irresistible grace. Irresistible grace is the critical to Calvinism and is the absolute core of hyper Calvinism. Feel free to study the doctrine of irresistible grace and then( if you can stomach it) read any of the bold statements Phelps has made claiming the certainty that certain people are in hell. It will be quite clear that Phelps does not hold to irresistible grace and therefore his claims of being Calvinist are false. So I request that you grant Calvinism and hyper Calvinism the same distinction from WBC as you do Baptists. thank you. 2600:1007:B020:A1EB:DCC8:CE89:FAD1:17F2 ( talk) 13:04, 12 November 2021 (UTC)