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According to the article, both Bill Clinton's wife and daughter were first ladies for his entire term. Is this correct? 206.53.196.113 ( talk) 21:42, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
User:Sugarcubez has suggested in this edit that there are personal motives behind Michelle Obama not being included on this list, namely that I don't like her. That quite an accusation to make, Sugercubez, when I've never expressed my opinion of Mrs. Obama on Wikipedia. In fact, the reason why I oppose Obama being included is simply because she is not first lady!! The introduction, literally the second sentence, in the article reads: "The first list includes only those persons who are recognized by the National First Ladies Library as a First Lady of the United States." Michelle Obama is not first lady, therefore she cannot possibly have been recognized by the NFLL as being one. Your motive behind favoring inclusion seems to be that it is "rude" to not include her name. That is not an encyclopedic reason rather it is your personal opinion and that holds no weight here. Laura Bush is still the first lady and will be until January 20, 2009. On that date at 12:00 noon EST, we can add Mrs. Obama to this list. -- Happyme22 ( talk) 18:06, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Technically, you can't know that someone will be First Lady until she is. There was at least one case when a President-elect's wife died between the election and the inauguration so she didn't become First Lady. 47.139.46.80 ( talk) 19:33, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
Why aren't Martha Jefferson Randolph, Emily Donelson, Sarah Yorke Jackson, Angelica Singleton Van Buren, Jane Irwin Harrison, Priscilla Cooper Tyler, Harriet Lane, Mary Arthur McElroy, Rose Cleveland, Mary Harrison McKee listed with the others? The non-spouses should get their own subsection. Dimadick ( talk) 06:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The spring 1844 social season at the White House was presided over by President Tyler's daughter Letitia "Letty" Semple, born on 11 May, 1821. Although Letty Semple and her sister Lizzie Tyler (previous to her February 1842 wedding), and on at least once occasion their eldest sister Mary Tyler Jones were on hand at White House social events to welcome guests, the President had specifically designated his daughter-in-law Priscilla Tyler as his official hostess. When she moved to Philadelphia, the social responsibilities briefly fell to Letty Semple. ... The three months that Letty Semple presided as the sole hostess of the White House (March to June 1844) for her widowed father was unremarkable. She was shocked and hurt when, in June 1844, her father remarried and she was no longer the hostess of the White House, replaced by a woman her own age. While the other Tyler children soon took to their new stepmother, Julia Gardiner Tyler, Letty Semple never did. Refusing to show her the most basic civility, Letty Semple forever resented her stepmother and there would be no reconciliation.
In many respects, it was Peggy Taylor's daughter, Mary Elizabeth "Betty" Taylor Bliss Dandridge (1824-1909) who assumed responsibility for the family's primary interaction with the general public. ... The President's daughter Betty Bliss was the public hostess of the Administration. ... At the Inaugural Ball, following the Russian Minister's wife in red silk and diamonds, "Miss Betty" appeared in a simple white dress with a white flower in her hair and her naturalness became her trademark. She presided over all public functions in the White House as the official hostess of the Taylor Administration. The public face of the Taylor women duo, Betty Bliss even had a popular dance song written in her honor. By the time the fall 1849 social season began, however, there was a marked difference in the style of the family. ... The change was visibly apparent at the March 4, 1850 White House reception when Betty Bliss led the conversations with men, balancing humor with sensibility and her poise was highly praised in the next day's newspapers.
Martha Patterson assumed great responsibility for the Johnson Administration White House, playing several different roles. Foremost was that of the primary hostess who welcomed the general public and invited guests, aided by her sister Mary Stover. ... As First Lady, she used considerable skill in assuming the personal management of an April 1866 $30,000 congressional redecorating appropriation. Rather than expend it on the private quarters and executive offices alone, she apportioned it with tremendous care and consciousness so that the overall appearance of the public rooms was uplifted. ...
Martha Patterson prided herself on having her own recipe for teacakes served to guests. She also focused on initiating elegant details at state dinners over which she presided with her father, despite her mother’s frequent but brief appearances at these public entertainments. Described as “generous and princely,” she had bouquets placed at each setting alongside what a contemporary description termed “green-gold” china. Limiting the number of dinner guests to forty, she had the main table decorated with large and long gold centerpieces from France, purchased under Monroe’s Administration. Hosting these in the State Dining Room, which had been closed for use by Mary Lincoln in the previous Administration, she also had the room photographed for the first time, when it was fully prepared for a formal dinner.
While emphasis has been placed on Martha Patterson’s importance in her welcoming the general public at receptions and distinguished guests at state dinners, from her perspective the importance of her role was derived from the comfort it provided her father as President, whether seated directly across the table from him or standing alongside him. The value of her presence, said one observer was the “relieving him of much of the necessity of entertaining” by extensive personal interactions. ... In September of 1867, Martha Patterson had also accompanied her father on his prenvjefbvjb vujb db fdkb dhy bbhv qerdb c whecdbchdfb dusidential tour of northern and western states, the first time a woman of a presidential family had done so since Priscilla Tyler joined her father-in-law on his 1840s tour.
Jane Pierce survived all 3 of her sons. Because of the tragic death of 12-year-old Benjamin, she did not attend her husband’s inauguration. She did not enter the White House until later in March 1853. She did not receive publicly at the White House until January 1855, asking her uncle Robert Mean’s widow, Abigail Kent Means, to perform the official duties of the First Lady. Since Mrs. Means had no children, she would find it easier to spend long periods of time with Jane, whom she loved like a sister.
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This is not a list of first ladies, it is a list of wives. It is fine to have a list of wives, but call it that. And here we should have only first ladies, which would include women chosen to serve in the role when a spouse was not available. Kingturtle ( talk) 16:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I've reverted the use of her Secretary of State portrait: File:Secretary Clinton 8x10 2400 1.jpg, since that comes well after her time as First Lady. Unfortunately, her official Simmie Knox First Lady portrait image was deleted some time ago, on grounds of not public domain, no fair use. That leaves either her official portrait as Senator, or one done in 1992, just before she became First Lady. I've chosen the 1992 one, since it's closer to the 'look' that she had during much of her time in that position. Wasted Time R ( talk) 13:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Anyone agree or disagree? I think that instead of photos, we have the official portraits (apart from Michelle Obama who hasn't got one!)
- Willwal Sunday 2nd Feb @ 7:25am —Preceding undated comment was added at 07:25, 2 February 2009 (UTC).
Until Harriet Lane, the title "First Lady" was not used officially; And was not used at all before Dolley Madison, and even in her case it was only used in her eulogy. - someone would like to volunteer? miranda 19:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
George Washinngton was President before the White House was biult, and William Henry Harrison died before Anna Harrison could get to the White House. This needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Perryparkhistory ( talk • contribs) 12:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I added the information from the above article into this one according to the result of a debate on that article. Since nothing had happened in half a year I thought it was about time to take action. I'm not sure, of course, if what I did was exactly what was intended but it certainly was a start. ;) -- Krawunsel ( talk) 22:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Van Buren's wife & Arthur's wife died before their husbands became President. Why are they listed? GoodDay ( talk) 21:42, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Woodrow Wilson's cousin, Helen Bones, served as the First Lady during the period between the death of his first wife and his marriage to his second wife. Anyone know why she isn't included on the list? MK2 23 August 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.233.209 ( talk) 19:13, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
For each column except the first one. — MrDolomite • Talk 11:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
Helen Herron Taft — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.210.153.238 ( talk) 21:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
The First Ladies of the United States are the women who have served as the hostess of the White House. The position is traditionally filled by the wife of the president of the United States, but, on occasion, the title has been applied to women who were not presidents’ wives, such as when the president was a bachelor or widower. She has her own staff, including the White House Social Secretary, the Chief of Staff, the Press Secretary, the Chief Floral Designer, and the Executive Chef. The Office of the First Lady is also in charge of all social and ceremonial events of the White House, and is a branch of the Executive Office of the President. Following Barack Obama's inauguration on January 20, 2009, his wife, Michelle Obama (pictured), became the forty-sixth official First Lady, succeeding Laura Bush, wife of former President George W. Bush. The first First Lady of the US was Martha Washington, married to George Washington. ( Full list...)
Neelix ( talk) 20:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Comment - major issue with sorting: DOB column not sorting at all. Date of marriage sorting all over the place. I wonder if that triple colspan for "First Lady" is messing it all up? The Rambling Man ( talk) 19:56, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment
I oppose this being on the Main Page in this state, and if the R in FLRC stood for "Review" rather than "Removal", I would have nominated this page there some time ago. These additions really needed discussing. Matthewedwards : Chat 02:55, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
The link to her page is going to Andrew Johnson's wife. I would fix it, but I have no idea how to do this. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.231.34 ( talk) 03:24, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
In the event of a woman becoming President of the United States, what would happen to this article? Would it need to be renamed to include the first First Gentleman? Vo BEDD 12:44, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Before the 2016 election, the Clintons said that instead of former President Bill Clinton serving in the traditional "first lady" role, they would hire a social secretary to do it professionally for them. I don't know whether she would have been given the title, but I don't think so. 47.139.46.80 ( talk) 19:39, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
Of course, if a lesbian becomes President, then her wife could be called First Lady. And if a man married to a man becomes President, then the same question of how to refer to a President's husband applies as to a female President's husband. So the question is valid, but in light of gay marriage being legal in the U.S., it should say "In the event of a person with a husband becoming President...", because it is the gender of the President's spouse that matters, not the President's own gender. 47.139.46.80 ( talk) 19:49, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
This article is messed up. Not only are people who've never been First Lady, being included. But, they're also being numbered. GoodDay ( talk) 01:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me why all marriage dates are in dmy format, wheras all other dates are in (correct, as this is Americans) mdy format? -- Marbe166 ( talk) 21:45, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
In the article First Lady of the United States has been written:
However, in the article List of First Ladies of the United States says:
Well, how it is really with:
Finally, how about Jane Wyman, if "regardless of whether they were married to the incumbent President or not"? She was the first wife of Ronald Reagan 1940-1949.
-- 85.76.78.121 ( talk) 16:53, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
The dates for Letitia Christian birth and marriage to Tyler are the same, so guessing some edit gone bad. Guess I could look up real info somewhere and learn how to do edit. Maybe next time or if not fixed in a day or two. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grantjr67 ( talk • contribs) 22:00, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Will there be a separate page for First Gentlemen or will this current page become a First Spouses page? Worth discussing, as Clinton victory looks more and more likely.
First spouses wouldn't be accurate, because they weren't all spouses.
Before the 2016 election, the Clintons said that instead of former President Bill Clinton serving in the traditional "first lady" role, they would hire a social secretary to do it professionally for them. I don't know whether she would have been given the title, but I don't think so. 47.139.46.80 ( talk) 19:42, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
I find this absolutely unnecessary, Marbe166. It complicates the table, and your justification that it being "aligned with the layout in the List of Presidents of the United States article" is dubious at best. There is a position known as President-elect of the United States (as well as Vice President-elect of the United States); there is no such position as Incoming First Lady of the United States or First Lady-designate of the United States. I strongly believe that Therequiembellishere's simplification of the table is superior. Fact of the matter: she's going to be the next First Lady by virtue of her being married to the incoming POTUS. Likewise I would note that the separation of the presidents and the president-elect was only supposed to be for both that list and the List of Vice Presidents of the United States only. If anything, your layout should be undone and discussed rather than the alternative being so (an alternative that happens to be supported by more than just 1 editor).-- Nevé – selbert 21:25, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Shouldn't Priscilla Cooper Tyler and Margaret Woodrow Wilson be listed on this article like the other de facto First Ladies? Keivan.f Talk 08:19, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
Justfortheladyfest, this issue seems to be a hot one, so let's discuss rather than reverting and re-reverting.
You quoted an essay when the change was first made, Wikipedia:Writing about women#Defining women by their relationships; bear in mind this is an essay, and not Wikipedia policy. Quite besides that, you mentioned in your edit summary that "'married to' expresses a status, while 'wife of' expresses an unnecessary sense of possession". It is not mentioned in that essay that 'wife' is somehow a harsher term than 'partner' or 'spouse', and your claim that it expresses a sense of possession sounds like original research.
Whether or not this is the case, it is important that the word 'wife' is used when describing the role of First Lady in the lead section, as this is exactly what it is (accepted title held by the wife of the President of the United States – First Lady of the United States). I don't mind so much changing 'wife of' to 'married to' in the later sections, but this creates sentences that do not make sense. For example, "Donald Trump's spouse, Melania Trump, became the 47th official First Lady, succeeding Michelle Obama, married to former President Barack Obama."
I will not revert your entire edit, but do you mind if I change the terms to address the issues mentioned above? Thanks — Quasar G t - c 10:00, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
'Spouse' is marginally better than 'wife' because any references to wife will be inaccurate if we ever have a President with a husband. 47.139.46.80 ( talk) 19:45, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
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I know that Benjamin Harrison remarried after his presidency (and thus his second wife was not a First Lady of the United States). Were there any other presidents who also remarried after their presidencies ended? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:11, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
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I wonder if it's really appropriate to identify each First Lady by her birth name, as opposed to the name they used while serving as First Lady. Almost all of them used the President's last name, not their birth names.(For instance, while serving as First Lady, Barack Obama's wife identified as Michelle Obama, not Michelle LaVaughn Robinson). Additionally, some, like Melania Trump, have changed the spelling of their first names, and yet this list uses the birth spelling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8C:C102:DD00:E112:74E8:16B3:619C ( talk) 22:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
On the same note, why are subsequent surnames included for first ladies who remarried after having been married to the president? (Example, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis) I think we should be consistent and only use the surnames that the first ladies had when they were first ladies. -- Marbe166 ( talk) 18:53, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Marbe166: We forgot one important fact: several of the first ladies (Eleanor Roosevelt and Rosalynn Carter, not Anna and Eleanor) were commonly known by their middle names, not their first names. (Apparently this was also true of "Priscilla" Tyler, the president's daughter-in law who was an established proffessional actress.) I think we should make an exception to our rule to accommodate this, in the spirit of WP:COMMONNAME. JustinTime55 ( talk) 21:59, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
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Dolley Madison is misspelled 159.87.34.3 ( talk) 23:02, 24 September 2021 (UTC)thank you
Shouldn't "First Ladies" be capitalized at least in the lemma as an official title as in the main article, or am I wrong? Tobiasi0 ( talk) 14:55, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
The list has Mary McElroy serving as acting first lady for the entire duration of Chester A. Arthur's presidency. This isn't strictly accurate, as she wasn't invited to take the role until January 1883. It's further complicated in that she was only active during the winter months, spending the remainder of the year at her home in Albany. Should these vacancies be reflected in the list? Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 08:14, 15 October 2022 (UTC)