This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on December 29, 2017.
Fictional 31st days
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retargetJune 31 to
31 June, delete the rest. --
BDD (
talk) 22:04, 9 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Created in 2005, reportedly to ward off hoaxes, these redirects from fictional dates now serve no purpose.
LaundryPizza03 (
talk) 20:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment are there notable fictional works for this?
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 16:55, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget June 31 to
31 June as a plausible error. Delete the others. Only April 31 and November 31 have ever been hoaxed, both by the same user 12 years ago; protection/prevention is not necessary, and if it was then these could be ECP salted. There are real erroneous dates with noteworthy information (
January 0,
February 30) but these redirects don't provide any useful information to readers. There's been a lack of consensus over the years whether these should target the general month article, or either the day before or day after the purported date (e.g. whether November 31 should target
November,
November 30, or
December 1), but none of those would be useful to readers.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:05, 2 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete all of them except for 'June 31', which should go over to the aforementioned film's page.
CoffeeWithMarkets (
talk) 16:48, 8 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Wikipedia:Not menu
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. I note that several editors !voted "keep" arguing that such a section could be added to the
WP:NOT policy, but such an addition to a policy page would require discussion in a much more central venue than this. As it stands this redirect does indeed suggest an interpretation of policy which is not supported by that policy nor by any evident consensus, and that is evidently harmful. There is no prejudice against recreation if consensus supports adding a relevant section to the NOT policy.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:44, 2 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The user that created this page added a WP:NOTMENU link to the
Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not policy page (
diff, which I reverted) and created this redirect, but no rationale was provided in the edit summary for why this was performed, other than "valid". As such, this is entirely ambiguous, and could refer to the contents of any article that contains any mention of foods that companies or organizations purvey. Furthermore, such changes to policy pages should be performed after a consensus is formed to do so, rather than unilaterally. I have also posted a note regarding this matter at
Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not § Revert. North America1000 06:55, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Speedy Keep as there is no provided policy basis on deleting a redirect, a redirect that anyone can start, see for example,
WP:Not guide. The current WP:Not guidebook actually mentions a menu and food as part of its criteria: not the telephone number or street address of the "best" restaurants, nor the current price of a café au lait....not include every tourist attraction, restaurant, hotel or venue, etc.". That a restaurant, hotel or venue is an excellently valid redirect. This satisfies our principles of
Help:Redirect#Purposes of a redirect.SwisterTwistertalk 07:03, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Struck !vote from confirmed sock above. North America1000 07:22, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment –
Wikipedia:Consensus is a policy. Consensus should be obtained before adding ambiguous entries to the WP:NOT policy page and creating redirects to the content that was added without consensus. North America1000 07:21, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete No mention of "not menu" at
WP:NOT. Seems to be part of a mass editing by creator to remove mention of products from restaurant articles (such as
this edit), which seems to conflict with
WP:PRODUCT: "If a company is notable, information on its products and services should generally be included in the article on the company itself". More guidance is needed than to merely point to a policy page with no mention of menus.—
Bagumba (
talk) 07:49, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete doesn't make sense redirecting when there hasn't been discussion in the policy page.
Stickee(talk) 11:56, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete since it doesn't clearly pertain to the material there, and we do not have any extant, regular problem of people a) trying to add menus to articles on restaurants and other food services (already covered under various rules about trivia and promotion, at
WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE,
WP:NOT#ADVERT,
WP:SPAM,
WP:COI, etc.), or b) anything else that "menu" could refer to, e.g. badly rewriting articles on software to be stepwise catalogues of their menu items (which would already be covered by
WP:NOT#MANUAL). —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 14:52, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete This was very clearly created in an attempt to create their own policy. A quick look at their
edit history shows they are just going through and deleted tons of content from restaurant articles, and wanted something to support their claim. - GalatzTalk 15:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep On its merits, an appropriate redirect. It's exactly the sort of contents we do not usually include. I think it was always assumed before, but it seems to be clearly needed now.It exactly matches the other similar statements, all of which are basically extensions of NOT INDISCRIMINATE to the usual special cases. DGG (
talk ) 16:01, 6 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete – Since this is "Redirects for discussion" (italic emphasis mine), and since I did not explicitly state "delete" in the original post, I would like to clarify that I am for deletion. Key points about the foods and fare that companies and food manufacturers create and purvey should not be wiped entirely from articles. Conversely, I also understand that articles do not need to go into great intricate detail covering every foodstuff a company/organization is involved in. These types of matters in articles should be judged on a case-by-case basis, rather than by the ambiguous ten-character phrase, wp:notmenu. North America1000 11:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep I can't see any great harm in this, any experienced edit will recognise the different between a typical menu item and a full listing, just as we can tell the difference under the product heading between "Bloggs Ltd makes widgets" and "Bloggs Ltd makes widgets, including blue widgets, green widgets, UV widgets etc."
Jimfbleak -
talk to me? 16:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)reply
inclined to keep This guy's edits are a bit of a problem but it's reasonable (and I feel a consensus for this) to assert that if we are talking listing particular dishes they should be part of their fame and not listings from the menu.
Mangoe (
talk) 17:23, 7 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Weak keep From what I see, we can all agree that NOMENU should be a thing. What I think the issue here is, was the way it was overly boldly implemented, without discussion. We put the cart before the horse on this one, but unless I'm missing something, we do have consensus at this point, albeit not formally. The reason I'm weak about this is probably why people voted delete, and if I'm honest, it's probably to discourage this as a precedent. As a small aside, and I don't think this is case here, but I also don't want to encourage people slashing entire sections when they could be rewritten more concisely to conform.
Drewmutt(^ᴥ^)talk 04:33, 8 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Bagumba: I agree that the
diff you provided directly above is of concern. The content removed (which you restored) is not a long bulleted directory list of menu items, it is sourced content that is relevant to the topic, as per
WP:PRODUCT. This example is in part a reason to be wary of vague additions to Wikipedia policy pages that have a potential to be significantly misinterpreted, leading to the blanking of entire sections of sourced content (and the work of our valued editors) at the push of a button, without appropriate due consideration of the content's relevance relative to a particular topic. Such content can also be copy edited to address concerns with intricate detail, rather than blanked in a rapid, drive-by manner. These types of matters in articles are better considered on a case-by-case basis. North America1000 11:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes, the troubling part is the edit summary read, "... Pricing and menu is an immediate violation".—
Bagumba (
talk) 11:49, 8 November 2017 (UTC)reply
it might make more sense to say, details of pricing and menu. The general level of pricing is appropriate, the type of food served is appropriate. DGG (
talk ) 14:55, 8 November 2017 (UTC)reply
I would tend to point at
WP:NOTDIRECTORY, which has relevant wording already.
Mangoe (
talk) 16:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)reply
*Keep. I see no reason why we shouldn't include this into our policy, and it's definitely something that isn't controversial because of personal opinion or bias. It's something that adds value to Wikipedia policy and it should be encouraged for Wikipedia's welfare. Today, we now see paid editing of all kinds and we should prepare for it, and this includes spamming us with menus. One comment here says this should be deleted because there hasn't been any discussion on the policy page, but there indeed is, so this doesn't add anything into why the redirect should still be deleted alone. Several years ago, the community was free to implement anything it wanted to, since the community has a choice of making it. I recently participated in a discussion about an article where menu product spam like this was added in, and this redirect fits in perfectly with solving that issue.
Trampton (
talk) 21:24, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Trampton has been blocked as a sock of SwisterTwister.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 03:59, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per Bagumba. There's no mention of menus at the target, so someone is free to interpret the redirect however they want. This isn't helpful as the above diffs have shown. --
Tavix(
talk) 21:26, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep and retarget to
Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Wikipedia is not a place to house an eating establishment's menu, ennumerating the offerings being provided. The content must be encyclopedic, i.e. the special dish should be noted in 3rd-party, independent sources, rather than routine reviews, such as what's common in local press. That's the very definition of indiscriminate.
K.e.coffman (
talk) 19:48, 11 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep - This seems a reasonable use of a redirect. Not sure why it has been nominated for deletion. At worst it is harmless and it may well be useful. VelellaVelella Talk 10:04, 14 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Steel1943 (
talk) 00:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete as an implausible search and what would it mean anyway? Maybe they are searching for how to format an article without a table of contents! Are we going to create redirects for
WP:Not teacher,
WP:Not television,
WP:Not your mother, ...? —
Anomalocaris (
talk) 06:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)reply
None of those would ever be suggests as they're not relevant. Not menu is a reality though in regards to article, but "Not teacher" or "Not your mother" is certainly not. The comments above clearly gave examples of why it's in fact valid, so simply stating "implausible" isn't showing how they're irrelevant. Also, as for the formatting an article, adding content without a table of contents, is against WP:MOS.
SwisterTwistertalk 20:54, 16 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete If the menu issue isn't mentioned in
WP:NOT, it's not appropriate to have a redirect there under this title. First get the menu-related text added to
WP:NOT, then create a redirect. (And then I'd probably vote keep.)
Calliopejen1 (
talk) 22:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. NOT BURo. We all do agree it's a good statement of policy, so why delete it only to remake. it? Just edit the policy page to include the statement. DGG (
talk ) 00:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC) — Duplicate vote:DGG (
talk •
contribs) has already cast a vote above.reply
Indeed, this redirect was created entirely out-of-process. I am surprised that people are advocating for a WP:NOTMENU redirect to the WP:NOT policy page when the policy page has no content qualifying the redirect. Furthermore, edits to the policy page should be performed by consensus, rather than arbitrarily. In this ambiguous manner, "WP:NOTMENU" could refer to any content in any article that even has a mention of cuisine. North America1000 03:56, 29 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. Neither the target section or
WP:NOT has any mention of menus, which means that this redirect cannot be interpreted. Since this is a redirect to NOT, one of the central policies on Wikipedia, and one which is frequently used to delete content, this is problematic. As Bagumba showed, this leads to abuse of the redirect to give the weight of policy to actions which are in fact not justified by policy. This is not to say that this redirect should never exist. But if "menus" become mentioned, (
WP:INDISCRIMINATE) seems like a good section), then this can be recreated. But RFD is certainly not the place to decide the contents of NOT.----
Patar knight - chat/contributions 07:43, 29 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Babymissfortune 01:58, 5 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Note to closer Since this is a redirect into policy page
WP:NOT, I hope this can be closed as a definitive keep or delete, and otherwise invite you to !vote if you feel there is currently no consensus. (Of course to me, it seems like
WP:COMMONSENSE that
WP:R#DELETE should have covered redirects created with no consensus, whose existence could lead to misinterpretation of Wikipedia policies.) Thanks for your consideration.—
Bagumba (
talk) 11:25, 12 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Note to closer – Ambiguity such as this can create problems. E.g. let's delete all of the
Michelin Starred restaurant articles, as per
WP:Not menu. Since the WP:NOT page has no qualification for the redirect, anything could arbitrarily be applied. Also, a discussion regarding this is occurring at
Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Revert. It may be a good idea for the closer of this discussion to also make a determination and close the other as well at the same time, to end this matter of having two separate discussions on two separate Wikipedia namespace areas about the same topic. North America1000 13:49, 12 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per Anomalocaris. There are a lot of things Wikipedia is not. If we delete this and people start flooding pages with restaurants' menus, please let me know and I'll apologize. --
BDD (
talk) 16:59, 14 December 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Bagumba: It does not qualify for G5. Nothing that SwisterTwister has created qualifies for G5 because the timing is wrong. ST and the two other accounts were just blocked. There would have had to have been a blocked sock before for their creations to be G5'ed.--
Bbb23 (
talk) 03:13, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Bbb23: I had thought that sockmaster Trampton was blocked since 2007, but that was just a temporary block at the time. Thanks for clarifying.—
Bagumba (
talk) 03:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
However he has used the account Trampton to !vote twice..which I've noted above.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 04:01, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I struck it out. - GalatzTalk 04:12, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete (1)
WP:DEL1: G5 IAR. (2) As per the information page
WP:Guide to deletion, "misrepresenting policies and guidelines in deletion discussions is
disruptive of the discussion process." This redirect is intended to (mis)represent a personal opinion as a WP:NOT policy.
WP:DEL2 has "inflammatory redirects", which I would interpret misrepresentation in the context as equivalent to inflammatory.
Unscintillating (
talk) 05:11, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete Nothing on SwisterTwister, just that it could cause confusion (The redirect might cause confusion. being a delreason) and doesn't seem like everyone agrees that it should be in NOT so IAR doesn't seem applicable here.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 07:29, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: This really should be closed soon, but I'm relisting it just to get the "December 5" page off of the main RfD page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 18:29, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Red Sparrow (2017 film)
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was keep. --
BDD (
talk) 21:52, 9 January 2018 (UTC)reply
This film has not been and will not be released in 2017.
Steel1943 (
talk) 18:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep. A redirect's validity shouldn't be temporary: If it was valid in January, it's still valid now. Furthermore, it's still getting a decent number of pageviews. And with it having gotten 63k views since creation, there's a real possibility that there are incoming links from external sites. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 18:13, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Actually, the page views chart proves essentially how implausible this redirect is as a search term after the article was moved in January 2017.
Steel1943 (
talk) 18:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep Valid {{R from move}}. This is a redirect from a page that has been moved (renamed). This page was kept as a redirect to avoid breaking links, both internal and external, that may have been made to the old page name.Galobtter (
pingó mió) 17:00, 31 December 2017 (UTC) Can be tagged as {{R unprintworthy}}.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 17:03, 31 December 2017 (UTC) Still receiving 10ish hits a day. It was at that title long enough.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 17:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
"...Still receiving 10ish hits a day." – probably because it's listed on RfD right now as it has no incoming article namespace links. And in regards to quoting the verbiage of {{R from move}} as you seem to have: So, if someone moves
Google to
(click to see title) then moves it back to
Google, we should keep the leftover redirect since it is then a {{R from move}}?
Steel1943 (
talk) 19:04, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
No, it's clearly vandalism and was there for only a few minutes and so hasn't been there long enough for external links. Long-standing article titles should remain redirects though, even if they are somewhat illogical. Regarding the views, I looked at before the RfD began.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 19:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete since it is actively misleading. The R from move argument is nonsense as it should never have been at this title in the first place. —
Xezbeth (
talk) 07:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep - {{R from move}} and per page view stats. It was at this title for 6 months until it was moved in January 2017. Page views dropped after it was moved to about 200 a day which is enormous for a redirect, and although they've tapered off prior to this nomination to 10-15 a day that is still quite a high rate for a redirect.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:12, 2 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Adam(2017 film)
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. --
BDD (
talk) 21:48, 9 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Unlikely typo due to the lack of space between the title and the disambiguator. Also, Adam (2017 film), a redirect towards the same target, exists.
Steel1943 (
talk) 17:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete - page was moved from this erroneous title five minutes after its creation; {{R from move}} does not apply.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 21:46, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Lacépède (taxonomy)
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The redirect pages should probably be (taxonomist), since he's a person. There is a
surprising number of redirects to the target page (e.g.
this long and unused title, many of which probably bear deletion if their dependencies can be retargeted around those redirects first. ~
Maltrópaloquace 17:00, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment This is probably a remnant of some infobox which automatically linked the surname of the first person to describe a species. Also, re: The redirect pages should probably be (taxonomist), since he's a person – different topic areas on Wikipedia use different disambiguation conventions, so it's probably helpful in general to have redirects from one to the other. For example,
Donovan Mitchell (basketball) is not a basketball.
59.149.124.29 (
talk) 03:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep He seems to be the only notable person named Lacepede, and he was associated with taxonomy, so I don't see an issue here. While (taxonomy) wouldn't be a preferred way of disambiguating an article about a person, it might be acceptable in some circumstances anyway. --
BDD (
talk) 16:18, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 16:24, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep per both of the comments above; harmless. I don't believe anything is preventing the nominator from creating redirects at
Lacepède (taxonomist) if they wish to do so.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 21:48, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Bound to be a great deal of discussion about it soon though, isn't there?
Philafrenzy (
talk) 12:40, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep, in four months time this will be one of the most talked/blogged/tweeted fashion moments of the year. It will stand alongside the many other historic dress articles.
No Swan So Fine (
talk) 13:37, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete as
WP:CRYSTALHAMMER or Weak retarget per nom. This can be created when there is information about the dress.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 17:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Though I don't know exactly where it would fit in the article. Or perhaps a
WP:REDLINK deletion would be better.
59.149.124.29 (
talk) 04:19, 22 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:CRYSTAL. Recreate when the wedding happens and the wedding dress becomes notable. CookieMonster755𝚨-𝛀 23:31, 22 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 08:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget per TtT and really anyone cares about her wedding dress? Or other royal wedding dresses? –
Muboshgu (
talk) 15:18, 4 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Keep - her future wedding dress should already be presumed notable, this being a royal wedding. Unless she elects to be wed in a pantsuit or something, but then the fact she did not have a wedding dress will be notable and this redirect will still be useful.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 21:52, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete until information about her wedding dress is known. Right now, Wikipedia has no mention of this. --
Tavix(
talk) 22:04, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete per CRYSTAL. We are not in a rush to create an article. Recreate later if notable. CookieMonster755✉ 02:16, 8 January 2018 (UTC) — Duplicate vote:CookieMonster755 (
talk •
contribs) has already cast a vote above.reply
Weak delete While we can point to other examples, I'm not quite convinced that such dresses are always notable. It definitely feels
WP:CRYSTAL, though I concede it's likely that we'll have relevant content in a few months. Next year? I don't know when the wedding is. --
BDD (
talk) 21:45, 9 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Retarget to
Wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, per TonyTheTiger, striking my keep comment above; that's a better target. There hasn't been a British royal wedding in nearly 180 years (probably much longer but
Template:British Royal wedding dresses can only be so big, presumably, and
Victoria is credited with starting many still-current wedding fashion trends like wearing white) that hasn't had its every minor detail extensively documented and painstakingly detailed in media of the time; see also
Category:Royal wedding dresses. What royals wear to their weddings is like the "next year's iPhone" of fashion. Ms. Markle's future dress is already being written about and analyzed by many credible sources, such as
The Independent,
The Mirror,
The Telegraph,
Elle UK,
Elle UK again,
Metro,
Business Insider, all from the first page of Google. This dress doesn't yet exist, but it was notable the moment their engagement was announced. There is also detailed speculation on her engagement ring and wedding band, her wedding hair, who's in the wedding party and what they're wearing, and on and on, as there always is for royal weddings. Deleting the redirect now when it will 100% definitely be recreated later and in the short term (the wedding is 5 months out) is pointless admin work. I'll see about adding something to the target.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:31, 10 January 2018 (UTC)reply
I added a small blurb about the present speculation.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:47, 10 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Don't Waste My Time (Status Quo)
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Keep. Harmless and unambiguous, but no new redirects in this format should be created.
feminist (
talk) 15:31, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment a move to Don't Waste My Time (Status Quo song) would be helpful.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 17:31, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. The present redirect fails WP naming conventions. No opposition to AngusWoof's suggestion to move (with no redirect).--
Richhoncho (
talk) 12:31, 22 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 08:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Plumbus
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was no consensus. Several options have been discussed and none seem favoured over the others after multiple relists, with some of the proposers changing their minds several times throughout the discussion. Noting that
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Plumbus closed with a much stronger consensus to redirect the article to the current target, this is closed with no action.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Not mentioned in target article. Without mention in its target page, this redirect has no notability outside of the Rick and Morty universe, and is the equivalent of a
WP:NOTWIKIA issue. Also, the history of this page was a recreation of an article deleted and redirected at AfD; see
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Plumbus.
Steel1943 (
talk) 22:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Needs notability like
Duff beer as it isn't even mentioned at the episode summary.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 23:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
At first I thought this could be an {{R from misnomer}} for
Plumbum (itself a redirect to
Lead), but this is quite implausible, isn't it? After all, there appears to be
only one chemical element whose name ends in -us. –
Uanfala 18:12, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
I had a very similar thought process. In fact, the redirect is only one letter off from
plumbous, an adjectival form. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:34, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget to Lead This would work since Plumbous and Plumbus sound the same and have been used in some books.
[1][2][3][4][5] Striking previous vote.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 21:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Hopefully this relist will lead to a consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
Tavix(
talk) 15:18, 17 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Nominator comment: After giving this some consideration, I oppose retargeting to
Lead. Though connecting the nominated redirect to
Rick and Morty without mention is a
WP:NOTWIKIA issue, the connection between the redirect and
Rick and Morty is still notable. Instead, Wikipedia's search function should be utilized to help readers find what they are looking for when searching this term. However, in the spirit of the AfD discussion that resulted in the redirect having indefinite full protection, I now suggest this redirect be deleted and
Plumbus be
salted.
Steel1943 (
talk) 17:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Can you throw in a redirects here and then hatnote to Rick and Morty? It'd help if Plumbus was mentioned at least somewhere on the Rick and Morty article. If the verbiage is there it can take the redirect. There are news articles that refer to it:
[6][7][8][9][10]AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 23:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC) update 23:55, 20 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep redirect to Rick and Morty per the articles listed by AngusWOOF. However, also note in the Rick and Morty article that “Plumbus” and “Plumbous” sound familiar (Plumbus redirects to “Rick and Morty”; not to be confused with “Plumbous“.) Yoshiman6464♫🥚 13:53, 27 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Babymissfortune 01:56, 5 December 2017 (UTC)reply
If plumbus can be integrated into the Rick and Morty main article, like how
Futurama#Setting and
Futurama#Hallmarks introduces readers to the terms, then it would be more useful than the hatnote proposal I had.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 20:25, 5 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Until then, it's probably most useful redirecting somewhere it's mentioned. Retarget to
How It's Made#Parodies for now. --
Tavix(
talk) 17:22, 18 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Hopefully this is the last relist. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:57, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Dabify One entry for rick and morty, and one for lead. The one for rick and morty can link to wherever there is information on it - be it
How it's made#Parodies or something else.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 08:03, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Dab pages centred on misspellings can
occasionally be found, but in this particular case I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable creating another one. How about we create redirects at
Plumbus (lead) and
Plumbus (Rick and Morty) and then let the search engine do its job? –
Uanfala (talk) 14:04, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Yeah perhaps - just was looking at the split in where to retarget...
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 17:40, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
🙃
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete.
Aervanath (
talk) 21:02, 10 January 2018 (UTC)reply
This emoji depicts an upside-down smiling face. It is often used to represent silliness, but it has no clear meaning so it is used in other ways too. The current target does not discuss upside-down faces. I do not think any article discusses this character or its meanings, so delete or redirect to
Emoji.
Gorobay (
talk) 18:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment: @
Gorobay: I think it may be time to create
List of emoji and get this confusion over with.
Steel1943 (
talk) 18:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Tavix: That's probably a good start. Maybe bring it over here, redirect all emoji titles to the sections/anchors that represent them, and call it a day. Then, we can stop having these discussions.
Steel1943 (
talk) 22:35, 18 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep as the best available target since it discusses smiles, and this emoji is smiling. Do not retarget to emoji because that does not describe this particular emoji. --
Tavix(
talk) 19:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)reply
This is in
Emoticon and
Emoticons (Unicode block) but not in
Smile. There are no descriptions in the articles but the tables link to the Unicode website which shows the emoji and describes it as "upside-down face".
Peter James (
talk) 21:11, 18 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. The emoji depicts an upside-down face and we don't seem to have articles discussing either upside-down faces or their use in emoji. The fact that the face also happens to be smiling is incidental. –
Uanfala 10:26, 20 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Retarget to
emoji, per Uanfala's comment; emojis with varying appearances shouldn't go to a particular subject. All emojis should exist, if nothing else because a redirect helps those of us using computers incapable of resolving the image. All I see on this computer is a little box, so if there's not a single relevant topic, redirecting to emoji demonstrates to me that the little box is an emoji. I'm not opposed to an alternate useful target, e.g. what Steel1943 is talking about, although it needs to be some sort of topical thing; if you send it to a comprehensive list of miscellaneous symbols, this won't help people figure out what it is, since anyone can guess that an unresolved little box is some sort of miscellaneous character.
Nyttend backup (
talk) 00:25, 21 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Babymissfortune 01:55, 5 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. This looks too vague to me; see
WP:REMOJI. --
BDD (
talk) 16:55, 14 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:57, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete - it's not a smiling face, it's an empty square. Squares can't be upside-down, they're square.
Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 21:54, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
No, it's an "upside-down face" emoji, see
here for what it looks like. Your browser doesn't support Unicode 8.0, see
H:MS for support. --
Tavix(
talk) 22:14, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Oxygen redirects
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was no consensus, delete, keep, and delete, respectively. --
BDD (
talk) 21:41, 9 January 2018 (UTC)reply
These redirects don’t seem like plausible misspellings or typos. We don’t have misspelling redirects for other elements.
165.91.12.221 (
talk) 12:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I would keep both "Oxigen" and "Oxygyn" since they seem like straightforward mistakes that people just might make, phonetically sounding out the word. The other two are more questionable, and I can see deleting them.
CoffeeWithMarkets (
talk) 01:12, 14 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep "Oxigen", delete the rest as implausible.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 14:31, 14 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, --
Tavix(
talk) 21:17, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Weak retarget Oxigen to
Oxigen Services or Keep and add that company to
Oxygen (disambiguation). Delete Oxyjunn as they appear more like media branding for non-notable companies and not mentioned in media. Keep Oxygyn as likely typo as shown in books.
[11][12] but also an old fashioned or alternative spelling
[13][14] . Keep 0xygen (leading zero) as possible OCR typo.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 03:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC) updated 17:41, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I'll add that
Oxegen redirects to that business first and hatnotes to Oxygen. Also striking 0xygen (leading zero) as not really used. Determining the difference between
Hawaii Five-0 and
Hawaii Five-O is confusing enough. There isn't a similar case for 0xygen.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 17:41, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep "Oxigen", delete all the rest. Very unlikely anyone thinks a word starts with a zero.
Natureium (
talk) 04:35, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:55, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was keep. Given lack of interest here and the user asking for a standalone article being blocked, the status quo stands. A split request would probably be the way to go in the future. --
BDD (
talk) 18:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)reply
This has become a contentious issue, it seems. Should Johnny have his own article, or should it redirect to the Character list? Judging by the history there have been many reverts in both directs. I do not have an opinion either way, I just don't want to see an edit war emerge.
‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalenciaᐐT₳LKᐬ 17:27, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Procedural note - if it's a question of "article or redirect" this should probably be brought to AFD.
Primefac (
talk) 17:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I believe RFD is the correct place to discuss this, rather than AFD. I've seen plenty of "article or redirect" discussions at AFD that were interrupted by someone saying it's not the place to discuss redirects. —
ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 17:44, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Fair enough, since it currently is a redirect.
Primefac (
talk) 17:48, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
For it to be discussed at AfD, the article would first need to be restored, probably
this revision. Since the status quo ante is a redirect, I think it makes more sense at RfD, but I guess it's a judgement call by the nominator (and we're already here anyway). The only cut-and-dry "this needs to be at AfD" I've seen here is when an article is redirected and then listed at RfD for deletion. No, you're trying to delete article content, take it to AfD. --
Tavix(
talk) 17:56, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment, the user who was insisting on the page being an article has been indefinitely blocked, though I'm not sure if it should affect this discussion, however,
TazminDaytime (
talk·contribs) appears to be the only user insisting on a separate article at this time (I would like to see one in the future but I believe more work should be done in draft, userspace or in the existing list entry first). —
ᴀnemoneᴘroᴊecтors 19:18, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment can this be redone as a split request instead to be discussed at the
List of EastEnders characters (2013) talk page, with notices sent to EastEnders and related wikiprojects? The way it stands the entry in the character list has way too much plot detail, and while he has his own casting subsection, and lacks a reception or legacy section to show independent notability. It's not really an RFD question as the redirect is still useful should the article not be created.
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 17:53, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:50, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Plute
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was disambiguate. I took seriously the argument about INCDAB, though since the term is (informally) synonymous with both "plutocrat" and "plutonium", explicit use of the term at both articles doesn't seem necessary. Perhaps with rare exceptions, listing all potential synonyms in a given article seems undesirable. Thanks to Uanfala for drafting the disambiguation page. --
BDD (
talk) 17:20, 8 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Among people who handle radioactive substances, "plute" is a known slang short form for "plutonium". Info from a guided tour of
Sellafield.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 06:15, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Dabify as there are at least three different attested meanings. Draft dab available below the redirect. –
Uanfala (talk) 19:51, 20 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm okay with a dab as well --
Lenticel(
talk) 01:32, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment. The proposed disambiguation page fails
WP:DABMENTION. None of the entries even mention the term.
Siege engine does mention plutei which might or might not be a related term -- but as an English language user I have no way of knowing. Unless and until articles that specifically mention the ambiguous term are identified on the proposed disambiguation page, I think the best option to clearly describe the current situation for readers is to use {{Wiktionary redirect}}.
older ≠
wiser 13:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Plutei is, trivially, the Latin plural of pluteus, which the OED gives as a meaning of "plute". It can be argued that this term is only mentioned in passing in the target article, so we dont' have enough of a coverage to justify the dab entry. The other two terms, however, are simply obscure alternative names for the target articles (so DABMENTION is irrelevant). Each of the entries is followed by an html comment indicating the source. If anyone believes these should be moved to the respective articles, feel free, but bear in mind that wikipedia is not a dictionary and articles generally shouldn't strive to enumerate all possible obscure synonyms of their topics.. –
Uanfala (talk) 15:52, 28 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I fail to see how
WP:DABMENTION is irrelevant. If the topic is not mentioned on the other article, that article should not be linked to in the disambiguation page, since linking to it would not help readers find information about the sought topic.MOS:DABSYN is not an exemption from
WP:DABMENTION. Linking to articles that do not provide any context about the usage of "plute" is somewhat
WP:ASTONISHing.
older ≠
wiser 16:11, 28 December 2017 (UTC)reply
I'll note there's discussion also on
Talk:Plute here..DABMENTION doesn't seem to apply as it is about subtopics, not synonyms.
MOS:DABINITIALS is applicable for initials and the like, however I don't think there is any explicit guideline on synonyms and whether they have to appear in the article.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 15:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Given
Bkonrad's ping at WT:MOSDAB, it would seem wise to relist and allow for more input.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:41, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:NOTDICT /
WP:NOT#DICT. We should not have pages existing for random barely-ever-used-even-historically slang, nor obsolete variants of words that happen to have entries in the OED.
WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE also covers this. Three policies should be enough, especially given that none of the articles even use this term, and adding it to them would be patently just the mongering of unencyclopedic trivia. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 10:38, 30 December 2017 (UTC)reply
May want to just redirect to Plutocrat.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 10:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)reply
But we don't do that for terms that are not used (and sourced) in the target article. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 13:58, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Hefei fat old mother hen West Dining limited liability company
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:44, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
"Hefei fat old mother hen West Dining limited liability company, is a unique Chinese-style fast-food chain business."
If somebody would write that on the company's official site somebody (perhaps a Chinese person looking for the company under its old name) could search for it.
Delete clearly not a "literal translation" or "English names in China can be bizarre sometimes", but the output of bad statistical machine translation (e.g. the 2010 version of Google Translate or Baidu Translate): the word "Dining" does not appear anywhere in 安徽肥西老母鸡集团, and the word "West" has inexplicably moved several places to the right. Gets zero Google Hits outside of Wikipedia scrapers. No evidence of ever having been used outside of that one deleted webpage.
59.149.124.29 (
talk) 13:16, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Fat West Anhui old hen group that's what it is now from gtranslate. Seems more likely that "chinese names being bizarre".
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 14:14, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes, that's what Google Translate gives today. Google Translate was very different seven years ago back when they first put that webpage up.
59.149.124.29 (
talk) 14:24, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Even back in 2010 I doubt "dining" would have spontaneously appeared on Gtranslate. My guess is that the original text they used had a version of the corporate name with 餐饮公司 "canyin gongsi" in it (there is a section heading canyin gongsi
in the Chinese homepage). I tried to find the original but had no luck yet.
WhisperToMe (
talk) 04:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes i know, just was pointing out what it is now.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 08:49, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete. Yes, it was used for a time on the official website, but that's a block of text that was clearly just run through a machine translator. If the term had any currency beyond that, I might be inclined to keep, but I just don't see it. — PinkAmpers&(Je vous invite à me parler) 17:45, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete Appears just from machine translation.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 08:49, 31 December 2017 (UTC)reply
delete as implausible synonym. Seems to be an old machine translation of the name. --
Lenticel(
talk) 01:08, 3 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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Politics and government of the United States
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:43, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
KeepPolitics of the United States describes the structure of the government too - the federal and state governments, executive branch etc, and is clearly what people want. It may be possible, however, for such redirects to point to a location in which both topics are discussed. Government of the united states refers to and redirects federal government of the united states, which is not what people would be looking for.
Galobtter (
pingó mió) 14:28, 19 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete - Per nom, as overly confusing.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 14:53, 19 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Killiondude (
talk) 07:38, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
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Infracaninophile
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was no consensus.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:01, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Non notable neologism that is rarely if ever used in anything of note. Isn't mentioned in the redirected to article, nor do I think it should be, as that would just be promoting the word, and wouldn't be encouraged per
WP:NEO. I can just make up a word with "Foo-phile" for pretty much anything but that wouldn't make it notable.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 14:52, 19 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment can we give it that soft redirect wiktionary treatment?
AngusWOOF (
bark •
sniff) 03:27, 21 December 2017 (UTC)reply
As a neologism, I don't think it's in common parlance enough to merit a Wiktionary entry.ZXCVBNM (
TALK) 04:38, 22 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment created
wikt:infracaninophile (
wikt:WT:Criteria for inclusion#Attestation is extremely generous: three independent printed usages spanning a year or more. "infracaninophile" meets that quite well; goes all the way back to the 1930s). No opinion on soft-redirect. The guy who invented the word,
Christopher Morley, was noted
[15] for his habit of making strange coinages like this, so it might be possible to include some content in his article and retarget this there. I'm not particularly opposed to deletion either, but the concerns about "promoting the word" and "notability" seem misplaced.
59.149.124.29 (
talk) 03:48, 23 December 2017 (UTC)reply
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Killiondude (
talk) 07:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
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Falcon 9 Block 0
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talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was delete.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
I don’t think people would add the exclamation mark unless they were searching for a work called Jupiter!. If such a work exists and is notable, then it should be deleted to make room for an article. Otherwise, it is not a plausible search term.
LaundryPizza03 (
talk) 01:52, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete as unlikely spelling variant at best --
Lenticel(
talk) 01:09, 3 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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WP:NOTCREATECONTENT
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's
talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was keep.
Killiondude (
talk) 07:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete unused cross-namespace redir to something that's just someone self-quoting something without any context. No one's ever going to cite this with a shortcut. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep I don't mind people creating WP shortcuts to my essays. I have been asked in the past to move "Why admins should create content" into project space, but declined as it only contains my personal opinions. And with that in mind, I have no issue with somebody creating a counter-point essay that disagrees with it.
Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:30, 2 January 2018 (UTC)reply
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We should create a redirect to Australia — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
37.171.117.31 (
talk) 11:29, 27 October 2019 (UTC)reply