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The result of the discussion was:delete.
MER-C 11:04, 11 July 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:Tig Notaro
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The result of the discussion was:keep.
MER-C 09:18, 5 July 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:Poker companies
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: Makes the content clearer. All the companies seem to be primarily online
Rathfelder (
talk) 09:13, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep as is. Don't understand the nomination. Companies have b&m and online presences, the rename would be inaccurate and necessitate recreating the category for those companies that exist offline.
2005 (
talk) 00:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)reply
I cant see any mention of offline poker in any of the articles.
Rathfelder (
talk) 07:30, 24 June 2019 (UTC)reply
C'mon, Caesars Entertainment Corporation and Churchill Downs own numerous b&m entities, including the World Series of Poker currently underway. The World Poker Tour and Pokerstars run b&m tournaments all over the world. Also, some of these companies also are just strategy/teaching sites. They teach poker, wherever you play it. Your criticism actually seems to be that more companies could be added into the category, which just means it should be populated more.
2005 (
talk) 21:45, 24 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Are the brick & mortar operations not adequately characterised as casinos? None of them seem to offer poker exclusively in the way that many of the online companies appear to do?
Rathfelder (
talk) 12:01, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:Religion in the Arab world by city
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The result of the discussion was:no consensus.
MER-C 11:06, 11 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep, considering many of the countries of the
Arab world aren't in the Middle East. It has suitable parent categories.
Sionk (
talk) 07:35, 25 May 2019 (UTC)reply
A few aren't. Does it make sense to have a duplicate categorization system for many Arab countries in the Middle East? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against
Category:Arab world, but imo that category tree should be for Arab topics only, not for every any random topic like (in this case) religion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 17:33, 25 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I count nine countries out of 22 which are in North Africa, which I wouldn't consider to be in the Middle East. I don't see why
Category:Religion in the Middle East by city is being singled out for deletion. 'Arab world' also overlaps with 'North Africa' and 'Horn of Africa', but you surely wouldn't argue to delete one and keep another.
Sionk (
talk) 23:01, 26 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
MER-C 08:58, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Merge (leaving cat-redirect) to
Category:Religion in the Middle East by city, which is in practice covering exactly the same ground. IN theory north Africa is also part of the Arab World, but there are no articles in the subject which do not go in target. In fact all are already there, so that I could have said REdirect.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 17:13, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
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St. Louis Commissioner of Police
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Nominator's rationale: This started as a procedural nomination following an opposed Speedy, but became more complicated when I found that Tysports had been making multiple copy-and-paste moves of the lead article, and also duplicated the category.
The first nominated category is the older one. The second one is a duplicate created last month by Tysports, excluding
Lawrence M. O'Toole who was Acting Commissioner for most of 2017.
Suggest merging both to
Category:St. Louis Metropolitan Police Commissioner. Category names are better for brevity. I have included "metropolitan" in this as it appears to be part of the title. I see no reason why an Acting Commissioner should not be included.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 14:31, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I believe
Metropolitan Police Commissioner is a London/UK title; I haven't come across it in US articles. Even if it's right, did you mean to use singular rather than plural? –
FayenaticLondon 08:18, 19 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Peterkingiron: I believe US police only use "Metropolitan", if at all, as part of the name of the dept, "Metropolitan Police Department", not in the title of the chief. If we are going to use the full dept name when naming an article/category for the chief, then IMHO we should not repeat the word "Police"; cf. usage in the current Boston chief's article, "
William G. Gross is the current and 42nd Commissioner of the Boston Police Department", even though he too has the title "Police Commissioner".
[2] Therefore I have added Option F.
Option D is the default option, because it matches the main article. I haven't seen any good reasons why we should deviate from that.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:09, 23 May 2019 (UTC)reply
With that information, I withdraw from the discussion.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:47, 11 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
DannyS712 (
talk) 08:39, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:U.S. Army installations named for Confederate soldiers
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:keep. –
FayenaticLondon 09:30, 26 August 2019 (UTC)reply
This category groups U.S. military bases like
Fort Bragg and
Fort Hood by how they are named. Most military base articles discuss who they are named after and the
this article discussed the Confederate naming controversy and lists the contents of the category. Nonetheless, grouping major military installations by how they were named doesn't seem defining. -
RevelationDirect (
talk) 01:16, 12 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Clarification@
Rogerd: This nomination is just about the category; I have no issue with the list article.
RevelationDirect (
talk) 02:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
RevelationDirect: I chose my words poorly, there actually isn't a
list, per se, if someone wants to see these installations, just this category. --
rogerd (
talk) 13:56, 12 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep Its a useful category.
Creuzbourg (
talk) 19:51, 13 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep per Rogerd. While normally this kind of classification would not be helpful, this particular naming scheme is notable for its hot controversy to the point of being a defining characteristic. (I dunno about "current" though, in the unlikely event Fort A. P. Hill changes its name, I'd think it would still fall under this category since it was true in the past.)
SnowFire (
talk) 01:58, 20 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Then listification is the better option.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 04:34, 28 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I think a category is fine and merited too. We can have both in this case.
SnowFire (
talk) 01:35, 6 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
DannyS712 (
talk) 08:39, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. It’s important due to present controversies. It’s important for historical reasons (failure of reconstruction; reconciliation after the ACW; US Army naming policy). Definitely keep! It’s not like one category is excluding other categories for the same article.
Creuzbourg (
talk) 14:59, 10 July 2019 (UTC)reply
The topic may be important, but the name of an installation is not defining for an article about an installation.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Yes it is, when the naming praxis in itself is controversial or of historical importance. Generally, I find it very peculiar that categories can be contentious and time being spent on discussing categories instead of improving articles. A category is just a means for a reader to reach the articles that are interesting. As already said, it’s not like one category is excluding other categories for the same article. Are there ulterior motives for wanting to remove this category? Political correctness perhaps?
Creuzbourg (
talk) 15:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)reply
The main motive is consistency of categorization; we don't generally categorize things by the origin of their name.
Here's an example of an earlier CFD for similar categorization - do you think that was for (the same) "ulterior motives"? An article such as
Fort Bragg contains thousands of facts; the origin of the name may be the fact that most interests you, but someone else might find another fact interesting. If we don't limit categorization then editors could get sucked into adding more and more category tags to articles ... DexDor(talk) 05:33, 14 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Three Maryland congressmen have introduced a resolution calling for the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue from Antietam National Battlefield because it "memorializes leaders of the pro-slavery, traitorous Confederate South". Can't you see that "named for Confederate soldiers" is a relevant category given the present political discourse? It’s not like the trivia from popular culture you are referring to. Furthermore, per WP:SHAREDNAME: a category for unrelated people who happen to be named "Jackson" is not useful. However, a category may be useful if the people, objects, or places are directly related—for example, a category grouping subarticles directly related to a specific Jackson family. It is my opinion, based on facts and logic, that "named for Confederate soldiers" in this case corresponds to "the Jackson family." In addition, I do not see overcategorization as an especially pertinent problem. I find it more disturbing that a stubborn attachment to general principles is overriding the specific circumstances of an individual case.
Creuzbourg (
talk) 11:01, 14 July 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Creuzbourg: Thank you, that is what my motivation was. To shine a little bit of a light on this issue. --
rogerd (
talk) 20:51, 14 July 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:Robert Bloch
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:delete per
WP:OCEPON. Where there are many articles for works but they are all in sub-categories for works, this does not justify an eponymous category, but rather means that it is not needed, if there are no other biography-related articles. –
FayenaticLondon 09:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose, Keep, because this categories for people are very important and necessary. They significantly improve the navigation in the field of speculative fiction and play a unifying role for all topics related to these writers.--
Yasnodark (
talk) 12:59, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
The category contains 2 subcategories and one article, in my opinion this is quite enough and the reader can see them together in this category.--
Yasnodark (
talk) 13:24, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
This is not enough to satisfy
WP:OCEPON, which states "even most notable people lack enough directly related articles or subcategories to populate eponymous categories effectively". --
woodensuperman 13:41, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. I think having nearly forty articles and six categories is enough to have a category for the person. I think this meets the nebulous threshold established by
WP:OCEPON. ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 17:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep - it would help if the nominator could concentrate on bringing (and bundling) similar eponymous categories from
Category:Wikipedia categories named after American writers. I can see many with just 1 subcat, yet this has 2. How are these being chosen?
WP:OCEPON does not bear upon this one as there are plenty of 'directly related articles', held in appropriately named subcats.
Oculi (
talk) 20:56, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Fully Support Deletion - There is ZERO need for this category. I am going to repeat word for word what I just posted below regarding
Category:William Goldman:
Even the "other" subcat,
Category:Films based on works by Robert Bloch, belongs quite properly in
Category:Works by Robert Bloch, which I have just added as a parent. Ordinarily, I would have gone ahead and finished the job by removing the redundant parent,
Category:Robert Bloch, but I left it there purely out of consideration for this discussion. The bottom line is,
Category:Works by Robert Bloch is absolutely all that is needed to provide a home for all of the subcategories. Keeping *this* category would fly in the face of The.Most.Basic. of all criteria for creation of valid categories, eponymous or otherwise.
Anomalous+0 (
talk)
Delete, after Anomalous+0's previous addition, the Works subcategory appears to be sufficient.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:50, 11 May 2019 (UTC)reply
These films can very well be a subcategory since they are based on these works.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:47, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Really? I'm not sure that's good categorization. DexDor(talk) 15:58, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete, not enough content about the individual besides the already present works subcategory.
Place Clichy (
talk) 13:09, 3 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
DannyS712 (
talk) 08:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep I agree with Yasnodark. More than enough content to populate category.
Dimadick (
talk) 06:42, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
This is not enough to satisfy
WP:OCEPON, which states "even most notable people lack enough directly related articles or subcategories to populate eponymous categories effectively". --
woodensuperman 15:30, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete. the Works-by and Films-based-on-works-by group together the relevant articles and are interlinked. Those articles don't need categorizing in
Category:American male writers. DexDor(talk) 15:58, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Putting "Films based on works by X" within "works by X" will always be debatable. I have replaced the parenting with "related category" links in both directions. –
FayenaticLondon 18:00, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:William Goldman
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Per
WP:CAT#T, {{William Goldman}} should 100% NOT be included. Categories are also not for articles which have not been written yet. --
woodensuperman 12:17, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep The category probably should include 1 article & 2 subcategoties, in my opinion this is quite enough and the reader can see them together in this category.--
Yasnodark (
talk) 13:25, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
This is not enough to satisfy
WP:OCEPON, which states "even most notable people lack enough directly related articles or subcategories to populate eponymous categories effectively". --
woodensuperman 13:41, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. I think having well over fifty articles and at least six categories is enough to have a category for the person. I think this meets the nebulous threshold established by
WP:OCEPON. ···
日本穣 ·
投稿 ·
Talk to Nihonjoe ·
Join WP Japan! 17:19, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep per Nihonjoe above.
Oculi (
talk) 21:02, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Fully Support Deletion - There is ZERO need for this category. Even the "other" subcat,
Category:Films based on works by William Goldman, belongs quite properly in
Category:Works by William Goldman, which I have just added as a parent. Ordinarily, I would have gone ahead and finished the job by removing the redundant parent,
Category:William Goldman, but I left it there purely out of consideration for this discussion. The bottom line is,
Category:Works by William Goldman is absolutely all that is needed to provide a home for all of the subcategories. Keeping *this* category would fly in the face of The.Most.Basic. of all criteria for creation of valid categories, eponymous or otherwise.
Anomalous+0 (
talk) 10:08, 11 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete, after Anomalous+0's previous addition, the Works subcategory appears to be sufficient.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 15:51, 11 May 2019 (UTC)reply
These films can very well be a subcategory since they are based on these works.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:47, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete, not enough content about the individual besides the already present works subcategory.
Place Clichy (
talk) 13:09, 3 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
DannyS712 (
talk) 08:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep Per Yasnodark's argument.
Dimadick (
talk) 06:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
This is not enough to satisfy
WP:OCEPON, which states "even most notable people lack enough directly related articles or subcategories to populate eponymous categories effectively". --
woodensuperman 15:30, 28 June 2019 (UTC)reply
There appear to be plenty of subcats (as a sub-sub-cat is a subcat).
Oculi (
talk) 13:40, 30 June 2019 (UTC)reply
That's not how it works. The "Works by" category should be the parent cat.
WP:OCEPON discourages eponymous categories when other options are available. The "Works by" tree is the established convention here. --
woodensuperman 11:22, 1 July 2019 (UTC)reply
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Organizations based in East Timor
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
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The result of the discussion was:rename per option A.
MER-C 08:45, 6 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Propose renaming under one of the following options:
Option A - "Organisations" to "Organizations" (Rename 8)
Comment - the status quo would be Option B. On the other hand I am not aware of any pressing need for East Timor to use 'organisation' rather than the more widely accepted 'organization'.
Oculi (
talk) 12:33, 4 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Support Option A. Consistency is important, and the Z spelling should be used. Z is the std form in American English, and one of two acceptable form in British English. The case for using the "S"-spelling is very weak even in UK-related topics, and for a country such as East Timor with minimal links to the UK it is non-existent. --
BrownHairedGirl(talk) • (
contribs) 16:32, 4 April 2019 (UTC)reply
Use 'z' Timor-Leste isn't English-speaking and doesn't have any strong colonial or cultural ties to the anglo world but uses USD for currency and probably has more US connections than UK ones. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 18:52, 4 April 2019 (UTC)reply
RFC. I have opened an RFC about whether to standardise on the "Z" spelling in descriptive category names, i.e. to use "Organization" in all cases. I estimate that this affects the naming of about ten thousand categories.
Support the zed (or zee) option. As a bit of a traditional Brit, I support
Oxford spelling which prescribes -ize endings and hence avoids transatlantic conflict.
Greenshed (
talk) 19:57, 6 April 2019 (UTC)reply
I have reopened this discussion as the RFC was closed inconclusively; the summary suggested that we should "embrace our differences… in a more formal way and make this explicit to categories". As I read the discussion (in which I was a participant), there was only a strong move to continue using -s- spellings in Australia and New Zealand. –
FayenaticLondon 07:08, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
FayenaticLondon 07:22, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Support option A - use z English is not a native language here, so local usage does not apply.
Rathfelder (
talk) 09:15, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Support option B. Fewer changes to make and per the original
Category:Organisations based in East Timor. Not an English-speaking country, so we should go with the commonest usage thus far. Commonwealth countries (including Australia, with which East Timor has close links) mostly favour the 's' spelling; US-influenced countries favour the 'z' spelling. Contrary to some claims, the 's' spelling has long been the norm in Britain and other countries; even Oxford University now prefers it, despite the OED's continued insistence on the 'z' version. The 'z' form is acceptable, of course, but they are certainly not on an equal footing. Claims that the 'z' form is more widely accepted are Americanocentric. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:15, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
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Category:Joanna of Castile
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:rename.
MER-C 08:46, 6 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale:rename per
WP:OCEPON, and apart from the eponymous article and her son, this category only contains cultural depictions.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:12, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Agree with the renaming - OK for me. --
Fadesga (
talk) 13:49, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:rename using z (option A). –
FayenaticLondon 10:21, 10 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Support A, use z - the status quo would be Option B, following
Category:Organisations based in Haiti. However, English is not an official language of Haiti, and so there is no compelling reason to use 's'.
Oculi (
talk) 00:27, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Support either, prefer z, since z is acceptable in both British English and American English.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 05:32, 23 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Support option B. Fewer changes to make and per
Category:Organisations based in Haiti. Not an English-speaking country, so we should go with the commonest usage thus far. Commonwealth countries (including the English-speaking Caribbean) mostly favour the 's' spelling; US-influenced countries favour the 'z' spelling. Contrary to some claims, the 's' spelling has long been the norm in Britain and other countries; even Oxford University now prefers it, despite the OED's continued insistence on the 'z' version. The 'z' form is acceptable, of course, but they are certainly not on an equal footing. Claims that the 'z' form is more widely accepted are Americanocentric. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:21, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
Why depart from the spelling of
Category:Organizations to use 'organisation', which is definitely not acceptable in the US and Canada? The Haitian Times has
1160 hits for 'organization' and
19 for 'organisation', a more than equal footing, possibly due to the US occupation of
Haiti from 1915-1934, or the more recent intervention from 1994-1995. (I expect Shakespeare would be surprised to be considered 'Americanocentric'.)
Oculi (
talk) 16:02, 25 June 2019 (UTC)reply
I don't know if you're aware, but Shakespeare died four hundred years ago! English has changed a lot since his day. Modern Commonwealth English overwhelmingly uses the 's' form. Your argument based on
Category:Organizations seems to be saying we should use the 'z' spelling in all such categories, which is definitely not in the spirit of Wikipedia's non-insistence on any one variety of English. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 12:25, 1 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Use 'z' until it becomes wrong (or not considered acceptable by the RfC or Cfd audience) at the country level. I am in the UK (well to the north of Oxford); 'z' was taught as correct (greatly preferable if one wished to be thought literate) in the 1950s and no doubt this is no longer the case.
This gives a good summary. Anyway, why should Haiti use 'ise' which is definitely British English, rather than 'ize', which is an accepted variety of British English, with its own template {{Use British English Oxford spelling}} with 1300 transclusions, and also correct US English?
Oculi (
talk) 13:53, 1 July 2019 (UTC)reply
I went to (public) school in the 1970s and 1980s, well to the south of Oxford, and I can't recall anyone telling me either spelling was right or wrong or being patronising enough to inform me that the 'Oxford' spelling was "greatly preferable if one wished to be thought literate". However, a look at the media will show that the 's' spelling is now greatly preferred in the UK and most other Commonwealth countries (with the notable exception of Canada, of course, but including those in the Caribbean adjacent to Haiti). Nobody is saying that the 'z' spelling is not an accepted variety of British English; however, hopefully nobody is saying that the 's' spelling isn't either or is arrogant enough to allege that the 'z' spelling is somehow the only correct one and those who don't use it are not fully literate. Given Haiti is not an English-speaking country I fail to see why either spelling should be preferred for articles about it. We should therefore go with the one that has been used most and especially with the one already used in the top-level category for that country. Otherwise we are in danger of being seen to claim either that the 'z' spelling is "correct" and the 's' spelling "incorrect" or that because America uses the 'z' spelling that should be the default on Wikipedia, neither of which are acceptable viewpoints on Wikipedia. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)reply
Option A, use 'z' If there is an issue about local language variation it is about usage in Haiti. The idea that the Commonwealth has any influence over local spelling practice is a delusion. But, as I understand it, English is not much spoken in Haiti, so we should follow the top level category: Organization, because there is no local reason not to.
Rathfelder (
talk) 12:30, 2 July 2019 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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