- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. j⚛e decker talk 00:39, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Sylvain Azougoui
- Sylvain Azougoui ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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This was originally a redirect, before being turned into an article by @ Werldwayd:. The subsequent PROD was removed by @ Xoloz:. The player fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL - no significant coverage and he never played in a fully-pro league. What little coverage there is falls under WP:BLP1E, relating to the unusual death. I therefore suggest that the article is either deleted, or re-directed. I think the best target for a redirect would be to List of association footballers who died while playing. Giant Snowman 07:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 07:48, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Actually Sylvain did play first division football in the
Gabon Championnat National D1, the top division of the Fédération Gabonaise de Football for several seasons. The club was promoted after being renamed and re-organized to first division. The following year, it finished 9th overall in the season of first division it played. Sylvain was the team's main goalkeeper. Slvain has also played second division Gabon football league for several years and as an achievement, we can mention that his club won the championship of the second division in the 2011 season and the club was promoted to first division for a second time in 2012 season and stayed there without demotion. The unfortunate death actually happened in an all-first division official match between first division AC Bongoville (2014) and rival Centre Mberi Sportif also first division. See the list of top clubs of Gabon this year (
Gabon Championnat National D1) This makes Sylvain a top league player for no less than 3 full seasons, contrary to the reasoning for deletion. Thanks for colleague GiantSnowman putting me in the picture as I was the main editor and creator of the page, and thanks to colleague Xoloz for trying to save the article
werldwayd (
talk) 07:54, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- I am fully aware of those facts - but the Gabonese league is not a
fully-pro league, so it is irrelevant.
Giant
Snowman 08:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- I really don't want to argue about fully professional leaguesand the wisdom of taking it as the sole criterion. To my mind, and I think it's only fair, the official top league of any country (the official division 1 of that country) is valid in itself as being the main indication of notable play. Or else, with such a restricted logic, we are clearly discriminating against all Gabonese players in their D1 league, except in the case where they are in the Gabonese national team (a select few for sure). Clearly the Gabonese league accomodates fully-paid foreign players who play in its league professionally, exactly as the case with Sylvain was, a Benin player playing in Gabon professionally with full pay for many years.
werldwayd (
talk) 08:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Well national team players are notable per
WP:NFOOTBALL - but that doesn't apply to this player. Also it's not the sole criterion for footballers, they also need to meet
WP:GNG. Has this player received significant coverage in reliable, independent sources? No.
Giant
Snowman 08:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- True true. Anyway he wasn't in the Benin national team for sure. In that case, I think your proposal to include him in a listing such as List of association footballers who died while playing is adequate enough. Anyway, he is also mentioned in the history of his AC Bongoville club article which I considerably developed after the incident. werldwayd ( talk) 08:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Well national team players are notable per
WP:NFOOTBALL - but that doesn't apply to this player. Also it's not the sole criterion for footballers, they also need to meet
WP:GNG. Has this player received significant coverage in reliable, independent sources? No.
Giant
Snowman 08:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- I really don't want to argue about fully professional leaguesand the wisdom of taking it as the sole criterion. To my mind, and I think it's only fair, the official top league of any country (the official division 1 of that country) is valid in itself as being the main indication of notable play. Or else, with such a restricted logic, we are clearly discriminating against all Gabonese players in their D1 league, except in the case where they are in the Gabonese national team (a select few for sure). Clearly the Gabonese league accomodates fully-paid foreign players who play in its league professionally, exactly as the case with Sylvain was, a Benin player playing in Gabon professionally with full pay for many years.
werldwayd (
talk) 08:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- I am fully aware of those facts - but the Gabonese league is not a
fully-pro league, so it is irrelevant.
Giant
Snowman 08:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Between the significant media coverage surrounding his death, and the Gabon league over the last 2 seasons becoming government-funded and professional, with some relatively hefty payrolls and foreign players, and a lack of evidence that it's not a fully-pro league, I'd say keep this player. Nfitz ( talk) 19:29, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- The coverage of his death fails WP:BLP1E, and the Gabonese league is not fully-professional. Giant Snowman 08:34, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
- So you claim, but there's been no consensus about that in discussions at WP:FPL, nor even any evidence presented. Nfitz ( talk) 02:52, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
- No, the burden is on you to prove the claimed notability. Giant Snowman 11:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
- Surely the burden should be on everyone in the community, to establish the facts. We haven't seen a single reference to say that this league isn't fully professional. Nfitz ( talk) 22:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
- No, "The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material" i.e. YOU! Giant Snowman 12:38, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
- If there was evidence that this league wasn't fully professional, then one would have a burden to find verifiable material. But that is not the case. What we have here is some paradoxical information suggesting some surprisingly high payrolls, and a lack of any indication that it's not fully professional. The concept of "fully professional" just doesn't exist in many societies. Nfitz ( talk) 01:04, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage since the coverage about his death fails WP:BLP1E, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik ( talk) 19:36, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica 1000 20:20, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr\ talk / 00:24, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
- Delete. Fails WP:NFOOTBALL. Death alone rarely makes one notable. WWGB ( talk) 02:16, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:BLP1E. Number 5 7 21:09, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.