The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Randykitty ( talk) 16:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC) reply

Sam Henderson (weightlifter)

Sam Henderson (weightlifter) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)

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Subject appears to fail guidelines for biographical articles, specifically WP:BASIC and WP:ATH. Although a Google search did yield some references to the subject, they did not meet the standard for in depth coverage by multiple independent reliable sources. Found coverage appears to be far too brief and in some cases trivial to establish the encyclopedic notability of the subject. That said I have added this to my watch list as it is entirely possible that Mr. Henderson may at some point rise to that level.

The article creator is encouraged to peruse the linked guidelines and if additional sources exist that may lend themselves to establishing encyclopedic notability, please add them.

(Note: I intended to PROD this article however it has previously been deleted via AfD and so I am sending it back. I am fairly sure that the time difference and changed circumstances of the subject preclude CSD.) Ad Orientem ( talk) 17:01, 12 November 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ ( talk) 17:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ ( talk) 17:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC) reply

• On the fence, leaning keep. I accept that he doesn't pass WP:ATH on a basic reading. I tend to think that we might treat a transnational competitions such as the 2016 European Weightlifting Championships as equivalent to the WP:NOLYMPICS. The article is well written and not harmful. I'm unsure what we gain by deleting it, and more sure that we gain by its retention. I think a better outcome of this nomination might be a discussion at WP:ATH on notability & transnational competitions. -- Tagishsimon (talk) 17:36, 12 November 2016 (UTC) reply

I understand the sentiment, but elevating all transnational competitions to the same status as NOLYMPICS would be a bridge too far for me. It would open the floodgates and seriously undermine WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Setting aside WP:ATH we still have the problem of BASIC. ATH does not automatically confer notability. You still need in depth coverage from reliable sources and I am not seeing that. That said I have a feeling that Mr. Henderson may well end up ringing the N Bell at some point in his life. I recall the original article about a young weightlifter in high school. This strikes me as a highly motivated young man who is going places. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 17:44, 12 November 2016 (UTC) reply

• Keep I agree with Tagishsimon ( talk · contribs) that most of athletes at transnational competitions such as the 2016 European Weightlifting Championships are notable. However, I also agree with Ad Orientem ( talk · contribs) it's not in WP:NSPORTS. I added some secondary sources so it meets WP:GNG. Sander.v.Ginkel ^{( Talk)} 00:21, 13 November 2016 (UTC) reply

I took a look at the six refs in the article. Five of them are completely trivial. The one that is not appears to be, if not trivial, than at least well short of in depth in its coverage of Mr. Henderson. Both individually and collectively they do not come close to satisfying GNG/BASIC. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 22:04, 14 November 2016 (UTC) reply

In addition to what Ad Orientem said, all but two of the sources are from the International Weightlifting Federation, the British Weightlifting Federation, or the Welsh Weightlifting Federation. None of these can be considered independent under WP:GNG. The same goes for the County Council webpage, it does not appear to be a newspaper, but just a government website. That just leaves the BBC, which is a single mention in a team list. That basically leaves the total number of found sources at zero. RonSigPi ( talk) 22:32, 14 November 2016 (UTC) reply

• Delete I have seen in Olympic sports competitors in World Championships not be presumed notable. This includes swimming and wrestling that, like weightlifting, do not have sport specific guidelines. While I tend to view World Championships as meeting WP:ATH, I don't see continental competitions and the like rising to that level. Can we really presume that sources exist to meet WP:GNG for all competitors at say the 1971 Asian Weightlifting Championships? I just see no evidence of that coverage existing and nothing has been provided to convinced me that such coverage can be presumed to exist. Also, this is a British/Welsh weightlifter that competed at the most recent European Championships. English online sources, if they exist, should be relatively easy to find since it's his native language and the sources would not have rotted yet. I did my own search and all I could find even remotely worthwhile was this - [1]. And I still find that source routine. The rest appeared to be from pages of weightlifting governing bodies, so not independent sources. Unless the sources are found, then delete. RonSigPi ( talk) 04:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC) reply

@ RonSigPi: I found a few sources, I think this is the best. The question is, does it satisfy :) - Sander.v.Ginkel ^{( Talk)} 16:14, 23 November 2016 (UTC) reply

To me, no. The article only mentions him twice (a third time in a photo caption if you want to count that). It does mention him breaking British junior records, but the article focuses on Holyhead and Henderson is one of many lifters given passing mention. If that is be best, then I continue to stand by my delete. RonSigPi ( talk) 22:58, 27 November 2016 (UTC) reply

• Delete. This is not my field, but in general, I share the widespread view that the existing guidelines for athletes are if anything excessively broad, and I do not think it would be a good idea to broaden them without the agreement of the general community. DGG ( talk ) 20:47, 21 November 2016 (UTC) reply

Reply Sounds like someone who votes delete while not having read the article! I can list tons of articles that are not listed at WP:Nsport (weightlifting is not listing at WP:Nsport) while there are, and I created 1000s, of weightlifting pages. Sander.v.Ginkel ^{( Talk)} 22:00, 21 November 2016 (UTC) reply

It sounds to me like someone who HAS read the article. Beyond which see WP:OTHERSTUFF. And if editors are deliberately creating articles that they know do not meet the community's guidelines and standards, that would be a source of concern to me. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 22:40, 21 November 2016 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Just not notable enough. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 01:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC) reply
• Delete. The subject may well become notable one day, but he is not there yet. I would have thought that the threshold would be a medal at something like the European Championships . St Anselm ( talk) 23:49, 1 December 2016 (UTC) reply
• Delete - Was originally leaning keep, but definitely doesn't meet WP:ATH, and could not find enough in-depth coverage to show they met WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 17:48, 5 December 2016 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.