- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. This is quite a tricky close, yes initially a technical NFOOTY pass, but questionable GNG at best.
However, it seems that during the discussion consensus elsewhere regarding the level of professionalism in the main league in which the player played decided that it was not fully professional.
There's an argument that this should be closed as delete as it now seems like both an NFOOTY and GNG failure. However, given the change of consensus midway through this AfD, I wonder whether some editors' comments may have been presented differently had the original rationale been fails NFOOTY, fails GNG. It seems preseumptive of a closing admin to assume they would have not.
In this instance it seems better, given that this discussion, and others, will probably shape a wider consensus, for this discussion to be closed as no consensus, but without this precluding a renomination with an updated rationale. This seems especially relevent given the majority of the keep votes were meets NFOOTY-based rather than attempting to present sources showing GNG. Fenix down ( talk) 15:15, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Ryan Zabinski
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Our article says he played 21
WP:NFOOTY games in 2008 and 2010 in the third-tier semi professional, non-
WP:FPL
USL Second Division (
SW lists 4 games in 2010). Other than that, Apparently hasn't played in any
WP:FPLs and does not meet NFOOTY. Search results return no significant coverage to meet
WP:GNG.
Leviv
ich 17:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Update: I have updated the nomination to reflect that this article no longer meets WP:NFOOTY because USL Second Division has been removed from WP:FPL per the note below. Leviv ich 18:19, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Leviv ich 17:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep The article clearly passes the criteria of notability as stated in the Football/Fully professional leagues list. Shotgun pete 8:10, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep – Clearly passes WP:NFOOTY. As to the Soccerway discrepancy, the site doesn't have lineups for American leagues prior to ~2009; therefore, the 21 games is correct (see the Riverhounds to back up the other 16 games), and that is much more than a marginal WP:NFOOTY pass. 21.colinthompson ( talk) 22:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. nom consulted me prior to nomination. Merits of NFOOTY here are somewhat dubious as while USL Division Two was nominally professional, many players were semi-professionals (holding additional jobs). This particular player retired after a short stint in order to become a golf caddie per his LinkedIn (unfortunately - actual independent RSes don't exist). Regardless, NFOOTY merely creates a presumption of notability - a presumption that sources should exist. In this particular case - as evident in a very simple google search - there is no SIGCOV. As the presumption of GNG is being challenged here, !votes who assert NFOOTY without providing supporting sources (which should be quite easy to locate - English speaking country, most sources online in this time period) - should be disregarded. Icewhiz ( talk) 06:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - meets WP:NFOOTBALL by some way; needs improving, not deleting. Giant Snowman 07:44, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
- Delete no evidence that he passes GNG. That is the threhold, not the arbitrary trolling inclusion cretiera that has lead to half of all Wikipedia biographies being on footballers. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:08, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: per consensus in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues#Status of US minor leagues (concurrent to this AfD) - USL Second Division was struck from the WP:FPL essay, as it was not fully-professional. This should affect !voting based on play in USL D2. Icewhiz ( talk) 07:24, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep passes WP:FOOTY. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 04:38, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't care if he passes WP:NFOOTY or not. SNGs are subservient (with the exception of PROF) to GNG. They are meant to be a quick rule of thumb for probable notability. Passing them does not guarantee GNG passage. I do not see significant coverage in independent, reliable sources, therefore he's not notable. Simple as that. SITH (talk) 16:49, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Please see the comment by Icewhiz and updated rationale by Levivich. Further discussion may be needed as to whether he does indeed meet NFOOTY (and why), not to mention GNG.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 09:14, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep, clearly meets WP:NFOOTY along with several other pages nominated by the same user. Mosaicberry ( talk) 11:58, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
- delete Coverage of him doesn't meet the GNG and playing in the USL Second Division does not meet WP:NFOOTY. Sandals1 ( talk) 18:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
- Delete. It is not at all "clear" that the player meets NFOOTY, and there does not seem to be any coverage outside of comprehensive player databases. Alpha3031 ( t • c) 07:24, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, B dash ( talk) 08:18, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
- Comment – Recent AfDs of USL Second Division players that have been closed as delete (by four different admins): Jason Stenta, Eric Loyd, Nate Jafta, Nick Bochette. Leviv ich 14:34, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.