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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Randykitty ( talk) 03:30, 22 July 2018 (UTC) reply

Markus Fjørtoft

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Markus Fjørtoft (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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fails WP:NFOOTY he has not played a game for the pro team and is not in the first team roster [1] and WP:GNG Dom from Paris ( talk) 15:45, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply

  • Keep, notable per WP:GNG, multiple non-trivial mentions in reliable sources. I have no problems finding sufficient news coverage to meet WP:GNG: in addition to Duke and the Sounders, there are mentions alongside the New York Red Bulls U23s [2] as well as Planet Football and GoPlay Sports [3]. Additionally, due to his famous father, there has been (especially in Europe) curiosity and interest regarding his future football career, which in my humble opinion makes him more notable than the typical pro player who, as you correctly state, has not yet played a game - unless friendlies count? It says here that he made his debut for the Sounders back in February [4]. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tangyanzixuan ( talk • contribs) 18:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Friendlies don't count. Geschichte ( talk) 21:11, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • I looked at the sources and Once a metro is a fan site for a club he played for so not independent coverage, Planet football is an WP:INTERVIEW so a primary source and soundersfc is his club so affiliated and not useful to show he meets GNG. Dom from Paris ( talk) 09:17, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
What about this [5] one? It's from ProSoccer USA. Then there's [6], which I don't believe is affiliated. Also a few mentions in foreign sources, such as [7]. Agree with your points on the previous articles, though. Tangyanzixuan ( talk) 19:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 15:47, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 15:47, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. Dom from Paris ( talk) 15:47, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh ( talk) 15:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Mind that the GNG asks for non-trivial coverage. It must be something more than a passing mention. Geschichte ( talk) 21:11, 5 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to Jan Åge Fjørtoft#Personal life, which already outlines his almost non-existent career so far, although sourcing it would be nice. As confirmed by article's creator above, he hasn't played a pro game yet, so fails sport-specific notability, and I can find no evidence of enough non-trivial coverage in WP:RS independent of the subject to pass WP:BIO. Again, as noted by creator above, much of what there is hangs on his father's notability: see WP:NOTINHERITED. Possible search term, so redirect. If he makes a competitive appearance for the Sounders, all we have to is undo the redirection. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 09:54, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • I can live with that. I understand that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and though it seems unlikely that he'll not ever make a Sounders appearance, as you said, all it would take would be to undo the redirection in the event that he does pass nfooty. There are more than a few pages that currently link to the page, and it would be nice to have somewhere to go to - even if just a redirect - rather than nothing. Still would prefer to have the page and hoping that the additional coverage passes GNG! Tangyanzixuan ( talk) 19:24, 6 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 11:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Admittedly fails WP:NFOOTBALL but passes WP:GNG. Page creator has provided more sources, and I and other members of the football community have been aware of this young man's name for years independent of any Sounders association. The only reason he hasn't started professionally is because of MLS international roster slot rules, which while I understand is irrelevant to WP:NFOOTBALL is something that should be mentioned. It would be unfortunate to browse the pages that link to him and not be able to access more information, and as a user above states, he's a "possible search term." Again, coverage looks to be more than passing mentions to me. Cheers, Leeds 13:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.11.99.71 ( talk) reply
Which sources in particular show he meets GNG as being indepth coverage in reliable secondary sources? Dom from Paris ( talk) 13:25, 9 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem ( talk) 02:12, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Delete since subject fails WP:NFOOTBALL. Notable father but notability is not inherited. - The Gnome ( talk) 13:28, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Comment Already said my part above, but I'll rewrite the last bullet I did since I didn't get a follow up. Some sources I was looking at (for gng), but someone please check me:
What about this [8] one? It's from ProSoccer USA. Then there's [9] from MLS Multiplex, which I don't believe is affiliated. Also some mentions in foreign sources, such as [10]. My point is that there's significant coverage even when every article straight up covering a Duke game and nothing else (are there are a ton of those) is struck out. Tangyanzixuan ( talk) 14:50, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
I've taken the liberty of changing your Keep to a Comment: we aren't allowed to !vote more than once. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 16:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Sorry, I didn't realize this was a vote! Thanks for changing that x Tangyanzixuan ( talk) 23:01, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
The point you're missing is that none of these pages show any evidence of in-depth coverage in reliable secondary sources. Routine coverage – man scores goal in warmup match, fanpage says man with new club will probably mainly play in the reserve team, man gets pro contract with a quote from his youth club about the virtues of hard work – doesn't establish general notability. We can find 100s of namechecks for 1000s of budding footballers, but that's why we have notability criteria: to weed out ones that haven't yet done anything worth writing about in an encyclopedia. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 16:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
Damn, I think I'll have to concede here. Can we still try for that redirect to Jan Åge Fjørtoft#Personal life? There's a connection there that to me would make sense to illustrate. Thanks, Tangyanzixuan ( talk) 23:05, 13 July 2018 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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