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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Meghan Trainor discography. Black Kite (talk) 09:09, 26 April 2015 (UTC) reply

List of songs recorded by Meghan Trainor

List of songs recorded by Meghan Trainor (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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"Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information... merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia. To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources." No sources are cited - besides album liner notes, AllMusic databases, and iTunes links which merely verify the existence of these songs - that explain why Trainor's body of work, aside from her 2-3 current hit singles, is worthy of encyclopedic coverage. – Chase ( talk / contribs) 19:50, 14 April 2015 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Lakun.patra ( talk) 20:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 20:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 20:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Merge to Meghan Trainor discography. Agree with nom that this article does not seem necessary. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:53, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Strongest KEEP Possible If you look at lists like List of songs recorded by Nick Jonas. You would see that these are proper sources, capable of sourcing themselves. Also, I strongly recommend you stay away from articles I edit, or you are going to be in a big deal of trouble. This article covers songs from albums, that don't have their own pages, but are covered in Trainor's discography. Making it all the way important to provide them to the reader in some form. Please refrain from deleting constructive edits. MaRAno FAN 06:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Per nominator and Natg 19. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 19:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per the nominator. IPadPerson ( talk) 19:17, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Merge into Meghan Trainor discography. I don't see a reason to have both pages, especially since a discography is a list "of releases of a certain musical act". The track lists should be included in the discography article. Pathore ( talk) 21:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Keep; while sourcing does need work, and the lead could give a better overview, she has enough songs for a standalone list. If Trainor only had one or two albums, though, I'd redirect it to her main article until more material came out. One thing I should note is how "List of songs recorded by X" pages are separate from discographies as they don't solely focus on singles, albums, or their commercial performance. Snuggums ( talk / edits) 21:43, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • The existence of these Trainor songs doesn't make them notable; as noted, our inclusion standards are based on notability. Discography as seen in the majority of our wiki articles covers albums, singles, and chart performance – no one is suggesting Trainor's discography for deletion, for instance, because her releases and their chart trajectories are well-documented by sources such as Billboard. But her entire catalog of songs is not widely written about in third party sources, as seen from the lack of sources currently in the article.

    I really don't think we need "songs recorded by..." lists for most artists, with occasional and obvious exceptions. For instance, List of songs recorded by Ashley Tisdale is not only deemed worthy of inclusion, but a featured list? What the actual fuck? But I digress. Pathore's suggestion to merge the track lists of the non-notable albums into Trainor's discography article makes the most sense. – Chase ( talk / contribs) 23:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - Once she releases a second album, I think more notability would be established. Saying that, it does pass notability now. I'd even put forward myself for editing it to improve it.  —  ₳aron 17:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • it does pass notability now. May I ask how? What reliable publications have discussed Trainor's complete body of work in detail? What notability guideline does this pass? – Chase ( talk / contribs) 01:34, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
What Calvin, and I, means is that this article is every ounce deserving to exist as others. Besides, Trainor has some of the most songs. Just because you like The Beatles and decide to undermine Ashley Tisdale and Meghan Trainor doesn't at all make their list-of-songs' articles less deservant of existence. For all it's worth, Trainor may actually be more notable than all of them. Also, above, you say that the Nick Jonas songs article hadn't been discovered yet, but you didn't go to take it to deletion even after I pointed it out. Such hypocrisy. CD-notes are perhaps the best sources to cite in these types of rticles and the existence of the songs is all that needs to be proved, which is well-established by iTunes or AllMusic or even CD-notes. All About That Bass ( A word?? / Stalking not allowed...) 04:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
MaranoFan, it's not about "liking" or "not liking" someone; the amount of songs a person/group records plays a more significant factor in whether such lists are warranted. With regards to Nick Jonas, this conversation is not about his list, only this one. Snuggums ( talk / edits) 04:27, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
After having a thorough look at lists of this type, I would swear that Meghan has enough songs. Anyways, this is leading to a no consensus conclusion. No reason for me to keep arguing now. All About That Bass ( A word?? / Stalking not allowed...) 05:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
I personally agree that she's got enough, though it would help to include collaborations and production processes (i.e. recording and songwriting) in lead. Snuggums ( talk / edits) 06:01, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
You don't determine consensus or lack thereof; the closing admin does. – Chase ( talk / contribs) 20:33, 21 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I agree with the nominator: there is no need for a list of this kind--it could be written up for basically any artist and in most cases would add nothing at all. In this case, we're talking about an artist with one album; even with two or three, what's the point? The main article has plenty of room (certainly once the cruft is removed) for these songs to be mentioned, if they're notable. That this is part of the Trainor fancruft series is pretty obvious, and it needs to be deleted not only because there appears to be no real relevant sourcing on Trainor as an established recorder of songs (there is an easy rationale found for List of songs recorded by Elvis Presley, not for this artist), but also because we're really opening up the floodgates here, K-pop style. It's not a matter of having "enough" songs, it's a matter of being an important enough artist that their recording of that song is something special: think Sinead O'Connor and "Nothing Compares 2U", think Nina Simone, think Miles Davis, for all of which arguments can be made. These arguments can't be made here.

    I had no idea how bad it was with these articles; I just put up List of songs recorded by AFI for deletion. What have we turned into? Drmies ( talk) 03:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC) reply

  • Question and comment. Is there some sort of relevant guideline listing criteria for an artist to have such a list of songs for voters to refer to? It also seems relevant to note that Meghan Trainor apparently has quite the fan base of tween girls, who probably see the utility of such a list differently than the nominator or delete voters do. Trianor also has an interesting recording history, having been spotted for her talent due to her multiple prior self-published albums, released before her mega hits, with prior songs now gaining attention with her fanbase of devoted tween "Megatronz". -- BoboMeowCat ( talk) 13:45, 23 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - With only three songs having articles, it seems like it would fail WP:NLIST. I do believe we ought to create some sort of NSONGLIST type guideline on this type of article, because it looks like without it, its acceptable to create one for just about any musical artists, much like the discography articles. (I'd be okay with a "merge/redirect" too, but realistically, with such a mainstream/popular subject, I imagine everything appropriate for a merge would already be at the discography article.) Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per WP:LISTN, not NLIST, which is not applicable. It is a list of recordings by the artist, not a list of recordings of a specific artist released by a record label i.e. discography, It serves a totally different function. Whether there should be a "minimum size" for these lists may need to be debated and included in WP:NSONG, but until then, the reasons for delete noted above are not applicable. I shall copy myself into the two other similar nominations. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 19:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC) reply
Sergecross73, WP:LISTN reads, inter alia, "The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable" - which is in direct opposition to "With only three songs having articles, it seems like it would fail WP:NLIST." Trainor is a singer of songs so a list of her songs also passes WP:LISTN -- Richhoncho ( talk) 22:29, 24 April 2015 (UTC) reply
With that sort of reasoning, every single musical artist with an article of could have their own song list article. There's got to be more to it than that, or we'd have a ton more of these sorts of articles. (They're extremely easy to make and sourcing the mere existence of songs is super-easy too.) Sergecross73 msg me 23:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC) reply
It seems we need some sort of specific guideline for an artist to qualify for such a list, such as at least 2 albums notable enough for an article and at least 4 songs notable enough for an article or whatever, but it doesn't appear there is anything in current policy that says this should be deleted. Given this is only article that gives significant attention to her independent albums, which are stressed in the other articles, this list seems valuable.-- BoboMeowCat ( talk) 23:27, 24 April 2015 (UTC) reply
I definitely agree a specific guideline should be created, but I also don't think this proposed concept of inherited notability stated here is the current status quo either... Sergecross73 msg me 00:32, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply
Richhoncho - Since a hypothetical song recorded but never released would be unlikely to meet the reliable sources requirement to be mentioned on Wikipedia, how is a list of songs any different than a discography? Also note that I consider a discography to be all releases by an artist, not all releases by an artist on any particular label. This is also the only meaning that makes sense, since Wikipedia only maintains one discography page per artist. Pathore ( talk) 00:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply
Pathore. There can be very reliable independent sources for unreleased songs. There are "Lists of unreleased songs by XXX" lists. As for the difference, I don't think I can spell it out any clearer - a discography is a list of releases made by a record company whereas a "list of songs" is exactly that - not dependent on a record company. It could include TV broadcasts, live performance. The function of a list and a discography are different. Unless you are saying ALL "Lists of songs recorded" are to be deleted I don't see any evidence why the present 4 nominated should be an exception. FWIW, I am not familiar with the works of any of the 4 nominated so I can't be accused of POV here. -- Richhoncho ( talk) 09:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Richhoncho. Also, this list seems to be the only Trainor article to list the songs from Trainor's earlier independent albums, and considering consensus has been to reference these earlier albums/recordings on Trainor's other articles, this list seems to serve a unique purpose.-- BoboMeowCat ( talk) 21:13, 24 April 2015 (UTC) reply
    BoboMeowCat - I maintain that those independent albums should be included in Meghan Trainor discography. Pathore ( talk) 00:06, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Merge as per Natg 19 and Pathore to Meghan Trainor discography. The combination or merging of the two articles seems to be the best option, WordSeventeen ( talk) 11:39, 25 April 2015 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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