- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Aoidh ( talk) 00:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Jessica Nabongo
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- Jessica Nabongo ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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Many editors speculate that this article is a promotional stunt. Nabongo reportedly doesn't hold the title of "first black woman to travel the world" and therefore the article does not meet the notability guidelines. K.Nevelsteen ( talk) 20:33, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- support per nom. Also such a term is subjective and until more is written about this person they fail basic notability guidelines.
- LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 20:40, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Women, Uganda, and Michigan. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Whether she really does hold the title doesn’t directly impact whether or not she is notable. There are multiple independent reliable sources covering her. What is the evidence that the article is a promotional stunt? I could be persuaded if there was some element of bad faith here.
Barnards.tar.gz (
talk) 21:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- Syria refused to give her a visa. She didn't visit every country. Please refer to the page.
W. Steinmeier (
talk) 00:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Visiting every country is not necessary to be notable. We need significant coverage in independent, secondary, reliable sources.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 00:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- I agree but the coverage is about her being first. If she would simply stop saying she's first on Wikipedia etc., there would be no issue. W. Steinmeier ( talk) 00:31, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Visiting every country is not necessary to be notable. We need significant coverage in independent, secondary, reliable sources.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 00:22, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Syria refused to give her a visa. She didn't visit every country. Please refer to the page.
W. Steinmeier (
talk) 00:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- I have repeatedly tried to alter the text, but all my edits are being reverted by Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Destructive_editing_by_User:Universalsunset. So, if reporting on Nabongo is wanted from the perspective of a writer, then a good start would be dealing with that situation. -- K.Nevelsteen ( talk) 08:18, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Whether she really does hold the title doesn’t directly impact whether or not she is notable. There are multiple independent reliable sources covering her. What is the evidence that the article is a promotional stunt? I could be persuaded if there was some element of bad faith here.
Barnards.tar.gz (
talk) 21:39, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- If you have sources disputing her claim, that probably increases her notability. Barnards.tar.gz ( talk) 06:44, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- I find Nabongo's travel really relevant and inspiring. She is a frequent contributor to Conde Nast Traveler's Women Who Travel podcast and serves as a role model to many female solo travelers, especially those of minority identities. I am of the belief that those who believe her travels are insignificant probably do not recognize the fears and/or worries associated with traveling as a young woman and even further, as a young black woman (intersectionality, go look up that Wikipedia page!!). There are so many niche pages on Wikipedia that I personally may not recognize why they exist but am not asking for their removal, so feel free to keep that in mind when considering to remove this page. 2600:8805:3E31:9D00:8096:D3C9:14F0:8070 ( talk) 01:39, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
Notable points with respect to Nabongo that I am aware of:
- Formerly employed by the UN
- Entrepreneur: travel agency called Jet Black (now defunct), and "The Catch" (see Merchandising)
- Author: "The Catch Me If You Can: One Woman's Journey to Every Country in the World"
- Public Speaking: spoke against climate change (forgot which convention off the top of my head), TEDx, ...
- Merchandising: "The Catch" https://thisisthecatch.com
- Blogger: Instagram and YouTube
However, I can't add any of this to the article, because of: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Destructive_editing_by_User:Universalsunset. That all being said. A reason why many editors might find this to be a publicity stunt is because of the massive wave of media attention (perhaps pushed by NGS), perhaps crushing the facts. In the words of Spotts herself, “I don’t want the spotlight. Jessica is a very visible face of black female travel. That’s fine. I don’t want to be that.” [1]. -- K.Nevelsteen ( talk) 09:38, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Conditional - After lots online searching and thought. My personal conclusion is that _if_ this article on Nabongo is kept, then the article on
Spotts (which is quite substantial for a stub) should be recreate/reinstated. Media coverage on Spotts is available (although the credibility of some sources might able to be brought into question; idem for Nabongo). I can't find it, but there is supposed to be a movie about Spotts and she is also an author on
Amazon. The wording on both articles will have to be well chosen so as to remain neutral. Otherwise, delete Nabongo on the same grounds that Spotts was deleted. --
K.Nevelsteen (
talk) 12:11, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- The article on Woni Spotts resulted in death threats. She would probably not want that again. Universalsunset ( talk) 19:40, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Conditional - After lots online searching and thought. My personal conclusion is that _if_ this article on Nabongo is kept, then the article on
Spotts (which is quite substantial for a stub) should be recreate/reinstated. Media coverage on Spotts is available (although the credibility of some sources might able to be brought into question; idem for Nabongo). I can't find it, but there is supposed to be a movie about Spotts and she is also an author on
Amazon. The wording on both articles will have to be well chosen so as to remain neutral. Otherwise, delete Nabongo on the same grounds that Spotts was deleted. --
K.Nevelsteen (
talk) 12:11, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Woni Spotts said in an interview that a Ugandan woman is not a true representation of Black American travel because her experiences are that of Africans. Black Americans are welcomed as tourists. Africans are treated as asylum seekers. According to her book, Nabongo had bad experiences in nearly every county, Spotts did not. That's why she can't represent Black American women. She should rebrand as an African traveler. Universalsunset ( talk) 21:04, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. "Many editors speculate..." — these are WP:weasel words and the nominator's speculation about the truth of the claims in an article is essentially WP:original research. Notability isn't about being first (or not); it's about significant coverage in reliable sources. The nominator has not presented a valid deletion rationale, so the page should be kept by default. pburka ( talk) 23:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
- I thought the whole point of this discussion was to verify if "many editors speculate". I wasn't requesting a delete, I was requesting a discussion on whether to delete, hence why I also have a section here with my own conclusions.-- K.Nevelsteen ( talk) 10:04, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Some of the current sources are questionable, but I think that there is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to establish that WP:NBIO is met. MrsSnoozyTurtle 04:32, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep with the truthful information about Woni Spotts and Golan Heights. Secure the page from edit wars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by W. Steinmeier ( talk • contribs) 13:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.