The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear consensus that the subject's body of work is sufficient to support notability. However, it remains the case that batter sourcing must be provided for claims made in the article, and those supporting its retention should see to that.
BD2412T 23:27, 4 June 2020 (UTC)reply
A non notable voice actor.
WP:BEFORE shows no evidence of substantial coverage that could help to improve the article.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
KEEPWP:ENTERTAINER is the subject specific guideline for voice actors. They have played a significant role in notable media. A major character on Castle in the Sky, the main character of Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water, Count Magnus Lee on Vampire Hunter D, etc.
DreamFocus 20:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Are there any reliable secondary sources to back this up?
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 20:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Their name is in the credits of the entertainment media. Primary sources are fine for things like this. Also common sense that the main character in a notable film is a notable part does not require any secondary sources to tell you that, you can hopefully think for yourself.
DreamFocus 21:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I’m really concerned that an editor of such experience believes this. Please read
WP:BLP and come back with secondary sources.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 22:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
This page in a nutshell: Material about living persons added to any Wikipedia page must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoidance of original research. You can verify things in the credits of what they've been in. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. I don't see any information there challenged. The guideline exist to prevent any slanderous lies from being in someone's article. There is nothing that could be seen as slanderous to the person, therefore its not a BLP issue. If you can list him in the credits of the articles for the films and television shows he's been in, then you can list that information in his own article.
DreamFocus 22:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
In
WP:N it states that all standalone articles must be sourced using “significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject”. We currently have no evidence of this.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 22:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
It states A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right. So it doesn't have to pass the general notability guidelines that you just mentioned, if it passes a subject specific guideline like
WP:ENTERTAINERDreamFocus 22:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
...But articles must have reliable sources under
WP:V and
WP:OR. At the moment, there are no reliable sources.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 23:08, 10 May 2020 (UTC)reply
This is not original research by any possible means. You only need to verify something if it is in doubt. Is there anything listed that anyone has any reasonable doubt is true? And I added some reliable sources. Clicked the link at the top of the AFD to search for Wikipedia reliable sources, and found TV guide confirming they were in one thing, and an link to Amazon.com page which list him in the credits for another. Having this same pointless argument every single time a voice actor comes up to AFD is tiresome. Usually they are kept, sometimes not, but its just a waste of time. Been going on for years now. The Wikiproject for Anime and Manga should be where standards are discussed for this type of article, and just leave it be. Doesn't really matter if people find this information on Wikipedia, or the manga wikia
https://manga.fandom.com/wiki/Jeff_Winkless or elsewhere. Not really worth the bother to constant argue over it.
DreamFocus 02:55, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak delete with
WP:REFUND. The article is poorly sourced and fails
WP:GNG. I see there are Amazon sources and
Dream Focus mentioned the Wikia, but those are not considered reliable sources by even
WP:ANIME. I am inclined to believe this article can be kept due to
WP:ENTERTAINER as long as Winkless' "notable" roles are sourced, and they are not.
lullabying (
talk) 18:28, 11 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Draft move to draftspace for improvement as he does have a number of prominent roles as per
WP:NACTOR but better referencing is needed imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 00:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak Keep or Redirect/Merge: For the moment, based on
WP:NACTOR, I am voting "Weak Keep". There wouldn't be much of an issue verifying the subject's roles, because there a lots of hits at newspapers.com in TV listings. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of in-depth coverage, though. I have found an obituary, which I will get clipped and provide here, but I'm not sure whether it would be considered acceptable as a
WP:GNG-source. Alternatively, perhaps a redirect/merge to a "List of Voice Actors" page might work—if such a page exists.
Dflaw4 (
talk) 14:17, 17 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, obituaries in reliable sources count towards
WP:GNG if they have significant biographical content and are not paid obituaries, imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 19:34, 17 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Thank you,
Atlantic306. This may be a paid obituary, I'm not sure. As soon as it is clipped I will provide it here.
Dflaw4 (
talk) 00:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment: Here is the obituary to which I referred above:
here. I haven't yet read it yet, so feedback is most welcome.
Dflaw4 (
talk) 06:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Not sure really, there doesn't seem to be a byline unless its been cut, it is significant content but it needs to be independent which a byline would indicate, imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 00:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree with you,
Atlantic306. Is there anywhere we might be able to redirect to, like a "List of Voice Actors" page?
Dflaw4 (
talk) 10:50, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Id rather put into draftspace for future improvement, as a list of actors has very little info, imv
Atlantic306 (
talk) 18:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Barkeep49 (
talk) 01:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Weak keep It seem that there are some sources, enough to pass GNG, but generally not in-depth on the man. ~EDDY(
talk/
contribs)~ 20:09, 20 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: A BLP so a second relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Black Kite (talk) 23:19, 27 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Keep: Per reasons above. With the sources indicated, the article is good enough to pass
WP:GNG. My vote stands. ASTIG😎(
ICE T •
ICE CUBE) 06:15, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
SNGs do not override the need to locate reliable sources, they are merely an indication. And
WP:BEFORE sets out minimum requirements before nominating an article for
WP:AFD which are not exhaustive and do not cover print media. Therefore claiming someone hasn’t completed
WP:BEFORE because they missed a print-only source is erroneous.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 00:14, 4 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment - can I please ask all editors to review the sources presented in this AfD, I still do not believe there is enough for
WP:GNG at this stage. All of the sources presented so far are either passing mentions, unreliable sources, captions on a picture, or listicles. As a BLP the sourcing needs to be far more substantial in my view.
Cardiffbear88 (
talk) 00:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.