The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is that GNG is the hurdle here rather than the SNG, and the further consensus is that this article hasn't reached it currently. Happy to draftify upon request if anything changes with their GNGness in the future. Daniel ( talk) 06:30, 23 July 2021 (UTC) reply

Georgi Gongadze (footballer)

Georgi Gongadze (footballer) (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)

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Fails WP:NFOOTY, having only played in the Russian 3rd division (not fully professional). Doesn't seem to pass WP:GNG, as coverage is routine. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 23:55, 29 June 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep The Professional Football League is completely professional. In addition, this player is one of the best scorers and joined the team a league higher. -- Mish-FCTM ( talk) 09:31, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
  • @ Mish-FCTM: The Russian PFL isn't included in WP:FPL. If you believe it to be fully professional, you can start a discussion at WT:FPL. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 12:54, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Draft When and if he makes his debut for FC Torpedo Moscow then he would qualify, but as it stands, he doesn't, and the article doesn't even pass WP:GNG at present. So until that point, this is better off in draft space until then. Govvy ( talk) 07:26, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Move to draftspace as above, draftspace is a valid WP:ATD. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 07:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete - fails WP:GNG as there is no significant coverage about him. Doesn't matter if he appears in a game tomorrow, he still needs significant coverage. The FAQ from the top of WP:NFOOTBALL makes it crystal clear that all sport figures need to pass WP:GNG regardless of how many professional appearances they have.

  Q2: If a sports figure meets the criteria specified in a sports-specific notability guideline, does this mean he/she does not have to meet the general notability guideline?
  A2: No, the article must still eventually provide sources indicating that the subject meets the general notability guideline. Although the criteria for a given sport should be chosen to be a very reliable predictor of the availability of appropriate secondary coverage from reliable sources, there can be exceptions. For contemporary persons, given a reasonable amount of time to locate appropriate sources, the general notability guideline should be met in order for an article to meet Wikipedia's standards for inclusion. (For subjects in the past where it is more difficult to locate sources, it may be necessary to evaluate the subject's likely notability based on other persons of the same time period with similar characteristics.)

  Alvaldi ( talk) 08:38, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete - fails GNG and NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 10:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete has not played in a fully professional league and so does not meet football inclusion criteria. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 15:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete, No evidence of participating in full professional level. Alex-h ( talk) 08:00, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply
• Comment: while I still believe he doesn't pass GNG, the Russian 3rd tier has just been added to the list of fully-pro league per this discussion. @ Mish-FCTM, Govvy, Joseph2302, Alvaldi, GiantSnowman, Johnpacklambert, and Alex-h: pinging involved editors. Nehme ₁₄₉₉ 10:10, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

Fair - but where is the coverage? Giant Snowman 10:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

I am still going with my initial assessment, I really don't think much of that conversation at the FPL page. Govvy ( talk) 12:39, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

@ Nehme1499: Doesn't matter if he has played 1 professional game or 1000, if there is no significant coverage on the person then he is non-notable and fails WP:GNG. WP:NSPORT, which WP:NFOOTBALL is part of, makes it crystal clear that sports-specific notability guidelines do not supersede WP:GNG. Alvaldi ( talk) 12:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

That discussion had 2 participants, hardly an overwhelming WP:CONSENSUS. And still doesn't meet WP:GNG. Joseph 2302 ( talk)

• Comment Declaring 3 tiers in a sport in a country giving all participants in them default notability is just insane. We should limit such to at most 1 tier per sport per country. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 15:11, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

  @ Johnpacklambert: Neither WP:NSPORT nore its subsection WP:NFOOTBALL gives anyone default notability. Per its own FAQ, passing a SNG only means that the subject is supposedly likely to meet the general notability guideline, and thus merit an article in Wikipedia. The subject still has to pass the general notability guideline. What is insane are claims that a player who happened to participate in a match where everybody got paid is for some magical reasons notable even if nobody ever wrote so much as a sentence about him. And having appeared in a game in a 1 tier league in some country is no guarantee that a subject has significant coverage or any coverage for that matter. The only two leagues I've come across where I've never had a problem with sourcing even the one-game-wonder players are the NBA and the WNBA, and those are the absolute cream of the crop in their respective sport. Alvaldi ( talk) 16:39, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

  The only two leagues I've come across where I've never had a problem with sourcing even the one-game-wonder players are the NBA and the WNBA These aren't the only sports, most players in the Premier League and even the EFL Championship can generate significant coverage from just a couple of appearances. Along with most major European football leagues.... Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

  @ Joseph2302: I was only speaking from my own experience from Afd's, mostly in basketball and football. Those are the two leagues I've never had a problem with sourcing one-game-wonders, mostly because they had already made a name for themselves before they joined the league (in college or elsewhere). I honestly would have thought that the same would apply for the biggest and best leagues in football as it is the most popular sport in the world and while I agree they are astronomically more likely to have coverage than the run-of-the-mill professional player, I've seen my share of these one-game wonders from those leagues that have nothing to their name other than a statistical database entry or a minor transfer article. And those articles keep getting kept despite the subject having no significant coverage on them because "he played in a game where everybody got paid!" or "he has an ongoing career, somebody might write something about him sometime...maybe". Alvaldi ( talk) 18:26, 3 July 2021 (UTC) reply

• Delete - fails WP:GNG due to a lack of significant coverage addressing Gongadze directly and in depth, which is far more important than whether or not he took to the field in a game where everyone is on a full-time contract Spiderone ^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:45, 6 July 2021 (UTC) reply
• Draftify - Article about semi-pro footballer which fails NFOOTBALL and GNG ( this is the most in-depth article I could find about him), but as he has signed for a club in a fully-pro league, the article may qualify for inclusion in the next few months. Jogurney ( talk) 17:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC) reply

• Keep (Draftify)- FNL is fully-pro league and the new season start is just a week away. His previous stats suggest a likely debut very soon. And the player already made a fully pro debut last weeked -- BlameRuiner ( talk) 05:14, 16 July 2021 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Has GNG coverage been found? It doesn't appear so, therefore he is not (yet) notable. JoelleJay ( talk) 23:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.