The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Played only 1 game for Great Britain in the Olympics, and for an amateur club. Doesn't pass
WP:GNG. --
SuperJew (
talk) 13:33, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment: This seems to be one of a few
WP:POINTY changes following the discussion at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bianca Gray. I would recommend a bit of caution here, as the player was active a long time before digital media, the fact that there are not abundant online sources does not mean there would not be more in depth coverage elsewhere (I don't know enough about English football to know if/where). However we do know from one of the
sources used that he played for England Amateurs (at a time when professional football was not as wide ranging as today), represented the UK in an Olympics and was a one-club man with Bishop Auckland, where he won multiple
FA Amateur Cups. All of this leads me to suspect there might be significant coverage (probably archival) about this player somewhere. There are definitely male footballers who fail GNG but I don't think this is necessarily one. Further, aside from passing
WP:NFOOTY, which I know the nominator is not a fan of,
WP:NOLY provides a further (and gender-neutral) presumption that this player is notable. Is there enough here to rebut either or both of those presumptions? I suspect maybe not.
Macosal (
talk) 13:45, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
All his achievements you brought are amateur achievements, and according to our good friend
WP:NFOOTY, unless you're
fully pro, that's not good enough. Regarding the Olympics, it was only 1 game and also
WP:NOLY is a guideline. --
SuperJew (
talk) 13:54, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Also, to iterate, I don't have a problem with
WP:NFOOTY, I have a problem that it's disproportionate. --
SuperJew (
talk) 13:54, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
That sounds like a problem to me. But regardless, he passes
WP:NOLY so let's focus on that for argument's sake (note he does pass
WP:NFOOTY as he played for a national team and at the Olympics). So we presume he is notable. Can you show that he isn't? I'd suggest not.
Macosal (
talk) 14:06, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Yes, he only played one professional match, and only has one source which might be considered not-routine. --
SuperJew (
talk) 14:09, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
As I explained above, this player is from an era before digital information. The fact you can only find one source is not a great indicator of notability as the sources about this player would not be searchable on the internet whether significant or not. Thus having a presumption is helpful here. In your
WP:POINTY efforts you have stumbled onto quite a genuine
WP:RECENTISM issue.
Macosal (
talk) 14:12, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Also, while talking about
WP:NOLY it's also biased - to be notable as a regular person you only have to compete in the Olympics, but as a disabled person you have to win a medal. --
SuperJew (
talk) 14:27, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Keep - passes
WP:NOLY, underlining that one of the purposes of such subject specific guidelines is to avoid recentism.
Fenix down (
talk) 14:19, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Note: This discussion has been included in
WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.
Fenix down (
talk) 14:33, 31 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Delete The assumption that all participants in every olympics from 1896 on are notable ignores the reality of the rules, or often total lack thereof, for participation in the early days of the sport.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 03:08, 4 August 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.