From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Many comments on both sides are simply variations of "Meets / Doesn't meet WP:GNG and / or WP:NFOOTY" without expanding on the rationale. Only two editors supplied sources for discussion, and only one editor gave any sort of refutation. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:07, 16 September 2016 (UTC) reply

Fabian Benko

AfDs for this article:
Fabian Benko (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
(Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG, as Benko has never made an appearance in a fully professional league (the cup match he played in was against a team in the Regionalliga, which is not fully professional), has never made a senior international appearance, and has no solid independent notability. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 04:38, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 04:40, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 04:40, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 04:40, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep There is notability. He has made his senior debut for the club. Regardless of opposition, the DFB Pokal is a fully professional tournament. It's the German equivalent of the FA Cup or Coppa Italia. Liam E. Bekker ( talk) 06:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
The DFB-Pokal is definitely not a fully professional tournament. The point of it is to include amateur sides from the lower leagues. A player participating in a cup match would only meet WP:NFOOTBALL if both teams are from a WP:FPL. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 06:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
Comment I'd argue that on two points. 1. He made his debut for Bayern Munich (a WP:FPL club) not the amateur club. 2. The notability surely lies in the stature of the competition and not the opposition? Liam E. Bekker ( talk) 09:46, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Player still fails WP:NFOOTY, the cup game he played in was not between teams from fully professional league , Carl Zeiss Jena do not play in a fully professional league. Fenix down ( talk) 06:56, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep There is notability. Besides his debut in the DFB-Pokal, there is coverage in the media: [1] [2] [3] -- Jaellee ( talk) 10:16, 20 August 2016 (UTC) reply
I don't understand how this is any different from the last deletion discussion, where two of those sources were mentioned. The third link is another minor, one-sentence comment by Guardiola on Benko. Once again, the DFB-Pokal match was not between two teams in fully professional leagues, and therefore are not notable per WP:NFOOTY. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 18:59, 21 August 2016 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone 12:52, 22 August 2016 (UTC) reply
I don't see how it passes GNG, there are very few articles, just like the last deletion discussion, and they all seem to be short and based off a short quote from his former manager Guardiola. A short comment on a youth player at his former club might become a talented player at some point in the future is not significant coverage. There are no interviews with the player, nor are there any significant articles summarising his career to date, which is to be expected, as he has not actually done anything noteworthy yet. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 08:48, 23 August 2016 (UTC) reply
What media coverage? The few articles there are seem to be based off a short quote. Not much has changed since the last deletion discussion, nor have there been many new articles. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 16:48, 27 August 2016 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Music1201 talk 15:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - not hard to find detailed significant media profiles of him. Here's one [4]. Nfitz ( talk) 18:35, 28 August 2016 (UTC) reply
As Fenix down mentioned about the article last time, this is not as much about the player in question, but rather an article on the wider Bayern youth setup/experience. "Benko is mentioned briefly with the article noting a couple of friendly appearances. This is not significant coverage, despite the fact that his name is mentioned in the headline." Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 19:25, 28 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - He has not played in a fully pro league or received significant coverage, meaning the article fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik ( talk) 20:48, 28 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - Also to note is that the article has been deleted from the German Wikipedia after being created, as they clearly state he is currently not notable. Just a youth prospect. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 14:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Non WP:NFOOTY - Modern Sciences ( talk) 06:49, 2 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep appears to meet notability guidelines, having played at the senior level for a pro top-level club, and having some media coverage specifically about him to boot. Together, I believe those two factors make him notable enough for inclusion. CrispyGlover ( talk) 20:56, 2 September 2016 (UTC) reply
His appearance in the DFB-Pokal is entirely irrelevant, per WP:NFOOTY. There is very little media coverage about him other than listing him as another one of Bayern's youth products. Which is exactly the reason why his article on the German Wikipedia was deleted. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 21:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - he has not been able to get any significant coverage from independent and reliable sources. As other users have mentioned, much of the coverage is nothing more than routine mentions. The article can easily be restored if he does make his pro debut. Spiderone 08:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep for his cup match for a professional side. -- SamWinchester000 ( talk) 14:47, 4 September 2016 (UTC) reply
That is entirely irrelevant, as WP:NFOOTY clearly states that only matches between two fully professional teams make a player notable. The cup match he played in was against a team in the Regionalliga, which is not fully professional. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 16:13, 4 September 2016 (UTC) reply
Secret Agent Julio: I came along hoping to close this. I find many folks making this argument, but NFOOTY does not actually appear to say this. Where are you getting this from? A fair bit of the arguments here hinge on this point. Vanamonde ( talk) 09:02, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
This is from consensus from a lot of AfDs historically. Often, young players will get their first appearances in cup competitions for experience. The way we apply NFOOTY there is to consider the relevant leagues the two competing teams were in. For example, in this instance, Benko's one appearance to date was against FC Carl Zeiss Jena, who play in the German regional leagues. A league appearance against this team would not fulfill NFOOTY given that the league the club plays in is not fully professional, therefore it is considered that a cup competition appearance against such a team, even if the other side is from a fully professional league is also not notable enough to demonstrate subject-specific notability. Either way though, Benko has failed to make a league appearance so far and therefore fails NFOOTY. There is still, as was established in the previous GNG, no clear wider coverage beyond multiple regurgitations of the same brief quotes by his manager. Fenix down ( talk) 11:06, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Yes, even German wikipedia doesn't have article..That should indicate something? And for English, he's already listed here: List of German football transfers summer 2016 . External links will provide more info for those who want it. Fruitmince ( talk) 03:28, 11 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete fails WP:NFOOTY. Many of the keep rationales are inaccurate as just playing a cup match for a pro team isn't enough, it has to be against another pro team. - Yellow Dingo  (talk) 05:58, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, has played as part of the official line-up of a top club in an official competition. If WP:NFOOTY does not consider that notable enough (but considers players who have appeared in third-level professional league games notable), that is a problem with WP:NFOOTY, not a reason to delete this article. — Kusma ( t· c) 20:45, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
I disagree, playing a few minutes in a 5:0 win against an ametuer team is not extremely signfigant, and does not make one notable. Being a minor match, he was substituted in as a test to gauge his talent (which is why he has not started/been on the bench for any more important matches yet). WP:NFOOTY prevents such minor appearances like this from being notable for a reason. Also, NFOOTY is an official guideline based off a long-standing consensus, this is not the place to argue against it. His article was deleted on the German Wikipedia as they understand he is just a youth prospect, who eventually may warrant an article, but not at the moment. Secret Agent Julio ( talk) 21:07, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. The relationship between GNG and the SNGs varies. In the case of sports, it's a limitation, necessary because of the very large amount of coverage people in this field get. DGG ( talk ) 21:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Fabian_Benko_(2nd_nomination)&oldid=1079286912"