- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Discussion of various unsourced stubs related to the company can continue elsewhere. (non-admin closure) power~enwiki ( π, ν) 03:32, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
ESP Guitars
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- ESP Guitars ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Promotional article with few sources, all primary, and suspected to fail WP:GNG. According to Ficadimerda ( talk · contribs), the entire Category:ESP electric guitars is a massive walled garden and they have prodded many, if not all, pages in that category. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 17:49, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Speedy Keep Notable and well known national guitar brand played by musicians like James Hetfield, there is a multitude of sources available in industry publications. Many books where we can glean facts. WP:NEXIST, the AfD is not for nominating notable subjects which are poorly written. Wm335td ( talk) 19:16, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 20:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Lightburst ( talk) 20:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep a well known 45 year old guitar manufacturer/brand. I find the nomination vexatious. The walled garden that the nominator mentions, are industry publications like Guitar World, MusicRadar, Premier Guitar, etc. Lightburst ( talk) 18:11, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- Cite to the publications and not sales pages please. The article as is needs to go. An article about this company is ok but we do not need new Wiki page for every guitar they ever make. Wikipedia is not the sales catalogue.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 03:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC) Also I did not propose deletion of this page, just all extra ESP guitar promo articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 03:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- We do not delete articles based on what is not in the article per
WP:NEXIST. We determine notability. You said, "...we do not need new Wiki page for every guitar they ever make". Tell that to the
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation. -
Fender Telecaster
Fender Stratocaster,
Fender Jazzmaster,
Fender Jaguar,
Fender Jazz Bass,
Fender Bass VI and this only a few. Type Fender in your search bar and go through the alphabet Fender A... Fender B....Fender C... etc you will find hundreds. I know that is not a great argument per
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but it is information. So I would be careful about prodding every product of the
ESP Guitar Company.
Lightburst (
talk) 14:55, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Fender article is well sourced and has more information than just product catalogue. Again I never asked to have
ESP Guitars main article deleted. If individual products have own pages they should have third party reliable sourcing and that goes for Fender and any company too. Just because the company is notable does not mean every thing it ever made is worthy of new articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 15:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Ficadimerda I hope you do
WP:BEFORE for each product prior to AfDing all of them. What did you discover that made you prod every single ESP product? Surely some products are notable.
Lightburst (
talk) 15:56, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes probably some products are notable but from Wikipedia category it is impossible to know which is. If notability of every product in the category cannot be demonstrated surely it is best to have redirect to main ESP Guitars page until it can. Ficadimerda ( talk) 16:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Ficadimerda I hope you do
WP:BEFORE for each product prior to AfDing all of them. What did you discover that made you prod every single ESP product? Surely some products are notable.
Lightburst (
talk) 15:56, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Fender article is well sourced and has more information than just product catalogue. Again I never asked to have
ESP Guitars main article deleted. If individual products have own pages they should have third party reliable sourcing and that goes for Fender and any company too. Just because the company is notable does not mean every thing it ever made is worthy of new articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 15:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- We do not delete articles based on what is not in the article per
WP:NEXIST. We determine notability. You said, "...we do not need new Wiki page for every guitar they ever make". Tell that to the
Fender Musical Instruments Corporation. -
Fender Telecaster
Fender Stratocaster,
Fender Jazzmaster,
Fender Jaguar,
Fender Jazz Bass,
Fender Bass VI and this only a few. Type Fender in your search bar and go through the alphabet Fender A... Fender B....Fender C... etc you will find hundreds. I know that is not a great argument per
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but it is information. So I would be careful about prodding every product of the
ESP Guitar Company.
Lightburst (
talk) 14:55, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Cite to the publications and not sales pages please. The article as is needs to go. An article about this company is ok but we do not need new Wiki page for every guitar they ever make. Wikipedia is not the sales catalogue.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 03:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC) Also I did not propose deletion of this page, just all extra ESP guitar promo articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 03:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Keep and WP:SNOW. Echo the other comments that the nomination is frivolous. The argument "suspected to fail WP:GNG" isn't credible, even the most basic web search shows significant coverage in reliable sources, such as this one: [1]. The nominator has been around long enough to know that they shouldn't propose deletion without even looking for sources showing notability, see WP:BEFORE. Regarding promotional or unsourced content, see WP:NOTCLEANUP and WP:FIXIT. There are dozens of musician and other general articles that link to it, so it's certainly not a walled garden. The existence of other stub articles about individual models is entirely irrelevant to the question of deleting the main article. -- IamNotU ( talk) 13:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, I replied to the wrong person. I did not say anything about GNG and did not nominate this for deletion, only other pages in category. Ficadimerda ( talk) 15:38, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- WP:SNOW Keep for reason cited by User:Lightburst and User:IamNotU. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 15:34, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
Comment Someone has put a prod on almost every single product of the company as shown here. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 15:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Yes I did that. The pages do nothing to prove notability (maybe some not even real products). I never said anything about walled gardens and did not nominate this main article for deletion. Ficadimerda ( talk) 15:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
-
Note: Discussion of the individual instrument articles or their proposed deletion is off-topic. If there are problems with them, use the talk pages. This is not the right place to address them. Please keep discussion related to the
ESP Guitars article. Thanks. --
IamNotU (
talk) 16:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Okay sorry my vote is Keep and fix
ESP Guitars.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 16:07, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree with
User:IamNotU. It is distinctly 'on topic'. You are engaging in a mass deletion, and notice to interested editors is not only appropriate, but called for. You are doing this without notifying the interested editors. The light of day should shine upon your effort and expose it for all to see.
7&6=thirteen (
☎) 16:18, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I looked a little but no editing in years of tags asking for source. Most articles in category have not even text, just product name. No third party sourcing at all. My only effort is to clean up. If products can be proven notable I don't mind articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 16:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Seriously! The prods were mentioned in the nomination. Please take this to Talk:ESP Guitars#Guitar page deletion redux, this is not the correct venue for ongoing discussion about it. -- IamNotU ( talk) 16:39, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I looked a little but no editing in years of tags asking for source. Most articles in category have not even text, just product name. No third party sourcing at all. My only effort is to clean up. If products can be proven notable I don't mind articles.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 16:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree with
User:IamNotU. It is distinctly 'on topic'. You are engaging in a mass deletion, and notice to interested editors is not only appropriate, but called for. You are doing this without notifying the interested editors. The light of day should shine upon your effort and expose it for all to see.
7&6=thirteen (
☎) 16:18, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- Okay sorry my vote is Keep and fix
ESP Guitars.
Ficadimerda (
talk) 16:07, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.