- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Let'srun ( talk) 17:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Bamburgh Castle Lifeboat Station
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No evidence of notability from reliable sources, the available sources are the publications of a lively hobby club. The station was relatively shortlived and nothing remarkable happened during these years. The main source, by Jeff Morris, has not received any attention at all [1] and is basically, as far as can be determined, a self-published booklet or brochure [2] Fram ( talk) 07:29, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Transportation, and England. Fram ( talk) 07:29, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep :As author of this page, I am saddened that it has been noted for deletion.
- I accept that the main problem is the lack of source material, and that I have only one primary source. The station was only open for 15 years, and nobody was rescued, so there is little reason for other sources of information to exist; no newspaper reports of gallant rescues, no medal reports, etc.
- But I refute the Notability claim, something which has been discussed with Fram, and in lack of response, thought he had agreed.
- As discussed earlier with Fram...
- The page is primarily referenced to the work of Mr Jeff Morris. An independent and enthusiastic man who dedicated most of his life to recording and documenting UK lifeboat stations, visiting them all, and recording in detail, every rescue, award, and lifeboat infrastructure, boats, buildings etc etc, before his death only a couple of years ago.
- He also worked closely with the RNLI Heritage Team, with access to all their documents, and with Barry Cox, who documented all the RNLI medal awards. There are no finer reference works, and to say it is not useful for notability is quite frankly insulting. There is nothing anywhere else that comes close. His work is absolutely an independent source of some repute.
- Jeff Morris didn't work for the RNLI, he was independent. He produced and funded booklets of his work, which he usually made available at the respective lifeboat station for them to sell and help raise much needed funds to run the service. Within the "small hobby club" of 2000 members that is the Lifeboat Enthusiasts Society, the booklets are treated as gospel. Does it need someone to have a proper published book with ISBN to be regarded as notable??
- Bamburgh Castle Lifeboat Station is an innocuous page, it's not causing grief to anyone, it just presents the facts of Bamburgh Castle Lifeboat Station, few as they are. Even the old station building still exists. The station was one link in a whole chain of lifeboat stations, and just because it was only open for 15 years, with not much happening, doesn't make it any less valid than any of the other former stations.
- I respectfully request that consideration for deletion is declined.
- Martin Ojsyork ( talk) 09:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Article is part of a body of such former lifeboat station articles, all geographically notable. It doesn't need to be deleted just because nothing remarkable happened. There are plenty of other places like that. Perhaps a wider search (e.g. British Newspaper Archive) would supply further sources.
Tony Holkham
(Talk) 10:40, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- What is "geographically notable" supposed to mean? Populated places (towns, villages...) are supposed to be notable, things like rivers or mauntains as well. But fire stations, police stations, libraries, ... are not automatically notable, and I see no reason to treat lifeboat stations any differently.
Fram (
talk) 11:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- @ Fram
- I don't know where you are in the world, but I'm assuming not in the UK?
- People in the UK are mostly very proud of the volunteers of the RNLI, an independent organisation, who will risk all to save lives at sea.
- As a result, many folks visiting the coast will make a point of seeking out both current and former lifeboat stations, to pay their respects to the work that is/was done there. Something that they don't necessarily do for a police station or library.
- Martin Ojsyork ( talk) 12:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- What is "geographically notable" supposed to mean? Populated places (towns, villages...) are supposed to be notable, things like rivers or mauntains as well. But fire stations, police stations, libraries, ... are not automatically notable, and I see no reason to treat lifeboat stations any differently.
Fram (
talk) 11:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep This is clearly a notable station as it was the location for Lionel Lukin's original lifeboat and long-thought to be the first lifeboat station in the country. I've also added some additional citations from earlier sources so it is not so reliant on Jeff Morris's work. Geof Sheppard ( talk) 13:03, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Goodness gracious, no one arguing for keep is making policy-based arguments here, so I will. The Morris booklet is WP:SELFPUBLISHED and all the Life-boat citations are to WP:TRADES and all are ineligible to establish notability. However, there are other independent sources that should be added to the article and that validate notability per GNG: Leach, Alexander and Kelly, Drower and Ainslie, and this BBC item. That should be sufficient. Dclemens1971 ( talk) 02:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Other than Dclemens1971 contribution, the other keep arguments are very, very weak. For example, just because articles exist on other lifeboat stations does not establish notability. The lifeboat station is not a geographic place as asserted above. Is each and every police and fire station individually notable? There's more than 1300 fire stations in England alone. There's many tens of thousands in India - they aren't all individually notable. "People in the UK are mostly very proud of the volunteers of the RNLI" is also irrelevant to notability - people are usually proud of firefighters, too. Doesn't make every fire station individually notable. The fact it is an "innocuous page, it's not causing grief to anyone" is true but also not relevant. It would be good if we could actually get some sourcing analysis to understand if the sourcing is sufficient to demonstrate notability. AusLondonder ( talk) 16:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment (Keep) MUCH has been done to improve and re-edit the page in the last day or so. I would hope that the page now meets its Notability criteria. So lets not judge the page on what has been said so far, in my case maybe said with enthusiastic passion and not so objectively, and judge the page on its current state please.
Martin Ojsyork ( talk) 17:26, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep article has been improved with more sources. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: Per HEY. The improvements puts it above the GNG thresholds now. The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 13:57, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.