- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy keep. Nomination Withdrawn. Tehonk has proven notability. (non-admin closure) Lightoil ( talk) 04:13, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Aziza A.
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Non notable artist fails WP:NMUSIC. A WP:BEFORE search could not find any sources that justify notability. Lightoil ( talk) 14:12, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Artists, Music, Germany, and Turkey. Lightoil ( talk) 14:12, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
*Strong Delete No indication of significance. Fails
WP:SIGCOV. Should have been speedied as being unsourced.
scope_creep
Talk 16:06, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Change to keep in light of the overwhelming amount of coverage both academic, cultural and media based.
scope_creep
Talk 00:03, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Scope creep being unsourced is not a
WP:CSD criterion however no indication of significance (
WP:A7) is but was declined by @
ComplexRational who stated
(decline A7; although much work is needed, this was originally PRODded (higher bar than A7) and undeleted at WP:REFUND; no prejudice against AfD if notability concerns go unaddressed)
. Lightoil ( talk) 07:50, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Scope creep being unsourced is not a
WP:CSD criterion however no indication of significance (
WP:A7) is but was declined by @
ComplexRational who stated
- Yes I know. I saw that afterwards I never read the talk page or the contributions page, just read the article. I would not suggested if I had. I know you cant speedy an unsourced BLP unfortunately. It is just of turn of phrase. Its curious there is a now a cambridge university book reference on the article. It curious because there is no coverage on the artist, no streaming of anything that considered as liked by fans nor anything on social media nor any real coverage that can be found on a WP:BEFORE. It is a WP:BLP that has been unsourced since 2009. You'll notice the TR wikipedia is also unsourced as well. scope_creep Talk 08:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep: She is notable, I requested it to be undeleted at WP:REFUND to work on what was there previously instead of creating it from scratch. But it seems there's a rush. Most sources for her would be from late 1990s and early 2000s and they would be in German. That would be the reason for not finding sources easily with a simple Google search. She was covered by German media in 1990s and 2000s extensively. Most of it probably would not be accessible online.
- - This work named World of Aziza A is published by Cambridge University Press and it's a reliable in-dept significant coverage. It covers the artist for 20 pages in detail. I was planning to add it to the article but it seems that was done already.
- - This is a digitized copy of her coverage from Folker (music magazine) in 1999 (you can assume there are more printed publications that were not digitized or cannot be found online easily): http://archiv.folker.de/9902/aziza.htm
- - Her portrait on a project about female rappers (this project received "International Music Journalism Award" at Reeperbahn Festival so it can be considered reliable): https://www.365femalemcs.com/portraits/aziza-a/ mentions her as "first successful Turkish-German rapper" and "first Turkish-German presenter to be seen on German television" (this "first presenter" claim is also mentioned here: https://www.fernsehserien.de/dr-mag also in the below rap.de source), that would probably mean she meets "Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city" criterion of WP:SINGER
- - Meets "Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels" criterion of WP:SINGER: First album is from BMG, second is from Doublemoon (an important Turkish indie label), third is from Balet Plak (a major Turkish label)
- - Here's a coverage of her from Der Tagesspiegel in 2001: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/ich-bin-fies-veranlagt-857377.html
- - She's covered on this file from renk. Magazin: https://renk-magazin.de/deutsch-tuerkischer-rap/
- - A bio on NPO Radio 2 : https://www.nporadio2.nl/muziek/artiesten/d187edb6-5436-49be-8d28-b4ed5342cf2e/aziza-a
- - A coverage on a reliable German site about rap (from a publisher who also publish Groove and Classic Rock: https://rap.de/meinung/171962-frauen-im-deutschrap-die-wegbereiterinnen-teil-2/5/
- - Most of these sources including Folker, 365femalemcs, renk and others mention her first album reaching #2 in World Music Charts Europe (by European Broadcasting Union) which means she meets "Has had a single or album on any country's national music chart" criterion of WP:SINGER
- Chart positions can also be verified with these links: second place, third place, tenth place
- - Cambridge University source mentions a "third-place award in a singing competition in Berlin in 1995", which may mean "Has won first, second, or third place in a major music competition" criterion is met but not sure because of the word "major".
- - Meets "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, such as a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film" criterion: Music for Lola and Billy the Kid and Eine andere Liga [ en] (also acts on both)
- - She has a good coverage on this academic publication: https://ijoc.org/index.php/ijoc/article/view/4300 (see "New Citizen Performances: Aziza A., Alpa Gun, Samy Deluxe" and "Identity Politics Cross Borders: Aziza A. in the Classroom" sections.
- - She's covered on this academic publication: https://dergipark.org.tr/en/pub/sefad/issue/46784/586613
- - She's mentioned here as "first Turkish female rapper": https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/tolga-akyildiz/bu-rapcilere-kulak-verin-ne-hikayeler-anlatiyorlar-41756188
- - Mentioned here as "first Turkish-German female rapper": https://tr.boell.org/tr/2021/11/02/goc-mahalle-ve-ana-akim-turkiyede-ve-diasporada-turkce-rap
- - Covered on this article on DW about this book as one of the 50 people covered in the book (book tells the stories of 50 successful Turkish-Germans): https://www.dw.com/tr/50-t%C3%BCrk%C3%BCn-ba%C5%9Far%C4%B1-%C3%B6yk%C3%BCs%C3%BC/a-15144002 Tehonk ( talk) 08:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- - The Cambridge University source says "she toured throughout Europe to promote the album, thus becoming a known figure in the German Hip Hop scene" and "following year she toured Germany with the famed German female rap star Cora E." (Europe tour is also mentioned in several of these other sources) which probably means criterion 4 of WP:SINGER is also met.
- - There's an extensive coverage in this book from Klaus Farin
- - There's a coverage in this academic publication Music and Cultural Memory: A Case Study with the Diaspora from Turkey in Berlin which mentions: "In 1997, her debut year, she was chosen amongst the one hundred most important people in the Berlin-based magazine Zitty, and, in a programme for BBC World TV, she was called the 'New European'".
- - Mentioned as "the most prominent female German-Turkish rapper" in this work (it also references Zitty coverage from 1997 but it seems that can't be found online): Popular Culture, Marginality and Institutional Incorporation. German-Turkish Rap and Turkish Pop in Berlin
- - A Turkish coverage from Hürriyet in 2004: https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/alman-sanatinda-avrupali-turk-firtinasi-204326 mentions "chosen amongst the one hundred most important people in Zitty" and the BBC coverage, also says something like "Aziza A, who managed to create a new style called oriental hip-hop"
- - A similar coverage from Cumhuriyet in 2004: https://egazete.cumhuriyet.com.tr/en/catalog/4202/2004/5/16/3 (archive page, needs a paid account to access the full page but there's a text only preview in that link), mentions opening and closing concert at Expo 2000.
- - Introduced as "Germany's first Turkish female rapper" on this interview: https://www.istanbulberlin.com/aziza-a/ Tehonk ( talk) 06:15, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:26, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Comment @ Tehonk: I've changed my !vote above. I examined these and they are excellent apart from one or two. She seems to be used in multiple case studies in the academic world. Could you update the article with some of these references? scope_creep Talk 00:06, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep with the solid research by Tehonk. Nicely done. Paul Erik (talk) (contribs) 00:09, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, the amount of coverage found by Tehonk shows her notability. Jaguarnik ( talk) 01:56, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.