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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. There is clear consensus here that the level of coverage this individual has received is not high enough to warrant a standalone article. A number of the !votes, particularly among those arguing to keep, have little basis in policy; in particular, mere mentions in reliable sources are insufficient for notability; to meet WP:GNG, coverage needs to be substantive. I am likewise not seeing a basis in policy for deleting before redirecting, as some people have suggested; I see no evidence that the history needs to be unavailable to the general reader.The redirect is currently protected; that should be sufficient. I would strongly discourage anyone from attempting to recreate this in the near future; if, some months down the road, subtantive new sources have appeared, this consensus may be revisited. Vanamonde ( Talk) 04:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC) reply

Ashli Babbitt


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Ashli Babbitt (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
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Pretty textbook WP:BLP1E. Should be redirected to 2021 United States Capitol protests. GorillaWarfare  (talk) 04:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply

  • Delete Delete. She can be mentioned in a separate Wikipedia page as part of the sedition attempt that occurred yesterday. She was by far not a protester but was attempting to participate in the overthrow of a democratically elected leader. The fact she died in the attempt, though tragic, is completely irrelevant. If we're going to make a page for her, then there'd be an argument for the other three that perished in this failed attempt to overturn the election should get their own page as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sportsfan1976 ( talk • contribs) 16:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Keep but make it clear that she was a seditionist and not an innocent victim. She stormed a protected government building in an attempted coup against a democratically elected government. By all intents and purposes, she is a domestic terrorist and therefore should be portrayed as such.
  • Keep vote In order to maintain a neutral wikipedia policy. No one is forcing anyone to read the wiki article. If you're googling her name it pops up. Therefore its relevant. Out of all the completely obscure wiki entries, why is this one being singled out for "obscurity"? This is very dark stuff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:A0C3:5500:F93C:9894:E3CA:53BC ( talk) 14:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep vote (disclosure: I expanded this from GW's redirect from reliable sources: thank you GW for notifying me about this AfD nomination) .. BLP1E requires fulfilling all three criteria, not just one. It clearly will not meet the 2nd criteria "is likely to remain, a low-profile individual". There is no basis for proposing such a likelihood. George Floyd for comparison similarly only became notable due to his death and has an entire article to himself since June 4th after his May 25th death. The 3rd condition is also not met: "the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented". That a person was shot to death during the protest has received very substantial coverage by many news outlets, many of which are detailing it thoroughly and rapidly, to convey the severity of the violence which occurred. WakandaQT ( talk) 04:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
If millions of people worldwide protest her killing then I can certainly see that argument; until then it is far too soon to suggest that she will achieve George Floyd levels of coverage. GorillaWarfare  (talk) 05:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Do you have evidence that literally "millions" had protested the May 25th death by June 4th? I'm guessing that tally came later. WakandaQT ( talk) 05:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
No, but I also wasn't arguing for keeping the George Floyd article on June 4 either. GorillaWarfare  (talk) 05:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
About condition 3: "the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented". The event is about a number of people storming the US Capitol. She was simply one of many who entered the building, and died as a result. Her role in the event was not substantial, and therefore condition 3 is met -- Gimmethegepgun ( talk) 12:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep As per WP:RAPID. Ongoing major story with International coverage passes WP:GNG the only question is whether it will pass WP:LASTING that cannot be determined at this point. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 04:52, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Unremarkable in life, this person can be covered adequately in the Capitol Protests article. WWGB ( talk) 04:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Are you arguing that "remarkable in life" is a requirement to have an article about a person who is killed? There is both a George Floyd and Killing of George Floyd article. It seems pretty clear what is considered adequately remarkable to have these articles is the events of his death: he was an amateur rap artist and film star since the 90s and nobody even tried to make an article about him until after he died, so I believe you're inserting false criteria here WWGB. WakandaQT ( talk) 05:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
I agree with WWGB - the comparison with George Floyd is not adequate. -- DeMonsoon ( talk) 05:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Floyd is an adequate example that objecting on the basis of "remarkable in life" is not valid grounds for exclusion if death makes remarkable. You could also argue in both cases that since video coverage exists of both of their pre-death struggles that they are actually also notable for the final moments of their life, even if they had both died by the time most people had seen the footage. WakandaQT ( talk) 05:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
See WP:OTHERSTUFF when debating AfDs. Wylie pedia @ 11:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 05:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 05:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. This is a textbook WP:BLP1E, and the article is almost entirely details related to the "protests" anyway, so there's nothing here justifying a standalone page. This is like George Floyd? Let's get real here. There were at least 3 other deaths today, and this woman's death is a footnote, not the centerpiece like Floyd's. Nohomersryan ( talk) 05:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
You might make a comparison to Heather Heyer as a death which occurred amidst larger events, but being shot by police storming the capitol is much more high-profile than being hit by a car in the middle of a street. WakandaQT ( talk) 05:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
While the event is higher-profile, I don't think it's safe to say this death already is. Heyer was intentionally murdered by a civilian and was the only person on the ground to die at Charlottesville, neither of which you can say about Babbit, a trespasser who got unlucky. Nohomersryan ( talk) 05:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
problem there is people will just blank the section, only way to reliably prevent that censorship is a standalone article for now. WakandaQT ( talk) 05:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
First of all, that's not "censorship", and second of all, it can be prevented in the way anything can be achieved on Wikipedia: achieving consensus for its inclusion on that article's talk page. GorillaWarfare  (talk) 05:20, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
If people continually blank it, then protect the page. ... discospinster talk 05:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Right now it's just much easier to keep track of information with a separate page. That article you want to merge it to is bloated beyond measure. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Clarification: I did no equivocate them, just pointed out that Floyd is an example of someone we can't argue was notable enough in life for an article. His lack of one prior to death is pretty good evidence of that. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - no significant coverage of her yet, only her death. Not notable for a stand-alone article. Elliot321 ( talk | contribs) 05:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Incorrect: there is now coverage of things besides her death in many papers, including her online political activism, her military career, her widower and orphaned children. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Based on current coverage of this event, all three conditions of WP:BLP1E are met. / Tpdwkouaa ( talk) 05:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Disagree: only 1 is met, not 2 and 3. Explained above. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete – no notability outside of Capitol events, so delete page and create redirect to appropriate section in 2021 United States Capitol protests. I realize that people are citing WP:RAPID to justify keeping it, but it is not our place to guess if she will become more notable (see WP:CRYSTAL), and as things currently stand, she is not notable. Also note that WP:RAPID does not state that new non-notable pages should be kept automatically in the short term; it suggests alternatives to deletion as one option – i.e. a merge to another page, as is being proposed here. RunningTiger123 ( talk) 05:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
there is no section and if we did that it's pretty clearly going to get snipped down and eliminated eventually, which is why she didn't have one to begin with. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete – One of several people who died as a result of mob actions. Not notable outside the manner of death. EnjoysButter ( talk) 05:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
her death happened as a result of whoever pulled the trigger, and "manner" is merely "gunshot victim". Beyond manner it's the context/circumstances and coverage. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
That criteria is not enough to exclude people from having an article. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect Per ... discospinster Thriley ( talk) 05:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and rewrite. I find the comparison to Floyd to be tenuous but logical. Heyer is a more likely comparison. Either way, this woman is notable now and will be more so when more details are released to the public. Squeeps10 Talk to me Please ping when replying. 05:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Subject not really notable enough on her own for a complete article. A small section in the 2021 United States Capitol protests article would work better. Fernsong ( talk) 05:55, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Should not be pushing for that with all the activity that page has, fair content about her would be hard to retain and monitor in that flurry. A stub is appropriate. This way we can properly detail what reliable sources have revealed without it further bloating the main article and then using that bloat as precedent to trim details about the subject. WakandaQT ( talk) 06:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
I disagree, this page itself doesn't have very much going for it, other than a short background and the fact that she had posted about QAnon and election conspiracy stuff, and seeing as how at least three other people have died in this protest, it would make more sense to include a brief section about "Casualties of the 2021 US Capitol protests" than have four stub articles about people who are otherwise not very noteworthy in themselves. Fernsong ( talk) 07:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
If Babbitt shows to generate significant coverage and become a specific cultural talking point in and of it self like George Floyd or Heather Heyer, the article can be rewritten. But as of now, it hasn't proven itself to be notable. Theleekycauldron ( talk) 06:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Note though that Heather Heyer is a redirect. - Astrophobe ( talk) 06:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
Noted! Sorry about that, I didn't check - the context in which people were bringing it up made it sound like an article. As for Floyd, Babbitt and Floyd aren't nearly similar. Theleekycauldron ( talk) 09:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to whatever article or articles come out of the mess at Talk:2021 United States Capitol protests, per nom and those who have mentioned 1E. In particular an encyclopedic article about her would inevitably end up being an article about her death, which would be covered better elsewhere. Given what little is here, redirect over merge. - Astrophobe ( talk) 06:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete So WP:BLP1E, it's not even funny. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 07:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. There is not a single notable thing about this individual except the manner of her death, which is already covered. Add biographical info to the main article if you must, but this page does not look useful. RexSueciae ( talk) 07:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge. Reliable sources exist, and given the context of the event, will likely continue to exist. That being said, the death is barely covered on the main page, so merging makes sense. Once things are more settled, this can be split out later as needed for size reasons. ---- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 07:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge: At this juncture, her only semblance of notability is that she was killed while attempting to break into the House Chamber. There is sufficient coverage on 2021 United States Capitol protests. DÅRTHBØTTØ ( T• C) 07:50, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 United States Capitol protests, since this is classic WP:BLP1E. Keep the redirect since it's a plausible search term and they're WP:CHEAP. {{u| Sdkb}}  talk 08:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Wikipedia has an article for Camille Balanche, a person whose only notable impact on the world was being the first Swiss cyclist to win a downhill world title. If we can have articles about minor athletes and actors, we can have articles about people whose life and death have the potential to change the course of all US history, especially if the events surrounding her death turn ill. For good or for ill, Ashli Babbit's actions and death have made her a noteworthy person, and her notoriety is only going to grow in the coming days. The page is already needed and that need will only increase. Assuming there is nothing worth discussing about her life prior to her death (which I do not accept, but let us just assume she did nothing else of note) then this page should perhaps be renamed 'Death of Ashli Babbit' or something similar, but not deleted. JoePhin 08:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    • JoePhin, How did her death change American history? 3 other people died, and we don't have articles about them. It is way too soon to say that she "[has] the potential to change the course of all US history". Lettler hello • contribs 16:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge Seems the correct action to take as this protestor has become a major part of the storyline, there are reliable resources and should not be deleted. Edmund Patrick – confer 08:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol : No evidence she is notable outside this single event. She can be named in that article, instead of the current redirect back to this stub (piped from "an intruder"). That said, I am not sure if we should name such individuals (privacy issues). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge She was an important figure in a major historical event (most American protests lack fatalities, her being one and one that literally broke into and was killed in the house chamber) and, furthermore, she represents the average protester which gives researchers an idea about the culture and politics of the protest. In the coming years, people need a cultural reference for this protest so they understand the conspiracy theories influencing it and the power those possessed over people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackson Hamilton ( talk • contribs) 09:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or redirect per Piotr. The event, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, is highly significant. However, her death, while tragic, does not mean that she had a substatial role in the event beyond what the other rioters were doing. As such, WP:BLP1E calls against a separate biography. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Comment / merge: Multiple editors are referencing WP:BLP1E, but as the notable event we are discussing is her death, what you want is WP:BIO1E. At any rate: information about her would probably be valuable from a historical perspective, but I don't think an article about her would ever reach beyond stub-class. Merging to the event article 2021 storming of the United States Capitol seems suitable. -- AndreniW ( talk) 09:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, ideally move to Shooting of Ashli Babbitt or Death of Ashli Babbitt. I think anyone being shot dead in the Capitol building is enough of a significant event to warrant its own article. McPhail ( talk) 09:32, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    I think this is severe Americentrism. BeŻet ( talk) 12:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    en:wiki is Americancentric. Every major culture has is own version of wikipedia, which are more than mere translations. If you want a Globalist or Internationalist wiki, start it. -- Robertiki ( talk) 14:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    ??? No, of course it's not. It's an English-language edition of Wikipedia, not the American edition of Wikipedia. Why on Earth would it be Americancentric? Consult WP:NPOVFAQ if you have any doubts about this. BeŻet ( talk) 16:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This person does not meet notability guidelines — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bravetheif ( talk • contribs) 09:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. So far, this is a BLP1E, but a probably significant aspect of the broader event at issue. If more and lasting coverage accumulates, a spinoff article can be reconsidered. Sandstein 09:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. – ♠Vami _IV†♠ 09:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge to a few sentences in 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. This is WP:BLP1E for a recently deceased person with no other notability. Boud ( talk) 10:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete MikaelaArsenault ( talk) 10:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect, while her death is saddening, she is not a notable person. BeŻet ( talk) 10:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per WP:RAPID. Störm (talk) 10:50, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per Gender bias on Wikipedia. Giggity Giggity Goo! 10:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
How is gender bias relevant? Is anyone supporting deletion because the victim was a woman? 45.251.33.62 ( talk) 11:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
This argument would only make sense if we kept a male victim and ignored a female victim. Otherwise it's frankly completely irrelevant. BeŻet ( talk) 11:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Textbook example of WP:BLP1E. Completely non-notable individual. Melmann 10:55, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:ONEEVENT. Hekerui ( talk) 11:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and redirect as a subsection in the article. She is notable only per WP:ONEEVENT. 45.251.33.62 ( talk) 11:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect No real reason to keep the article. scope_creep Talk 11:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep and move to Shooting of Ashli Babbitt, per BPL1E. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 11:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC). reply
  • Merge and redirect as a subsection in the article 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. - DrachenFyre ( talk) 11:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and/or Redirect to the storming of the Capitol article. No independent notability, no reason to have a stand alone article about either her or the shooting itself independent of the storming of the Capitol article. -- Jayron 32 11:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, per Melmann. Mjroots ( talk) 11:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to article on Capitol protests. Heather Heyer, who is a redirect, is the nearest equivalent in recent years, George Floyd is not equivalent. PatGallacher ( talk) 11:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to article on Capitol protests, at least until we have clear and reliably sourced information about the incident. Deb ( talk) 12:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or redirect to Capitol storming article. Not sufficiently notable for a separate page per WP:BLP1E. Hergilei ( talk) 12:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or redirect to Capitol storming article. Subject not notable enough for a separate article. See WP:BLP1E. Donaldd23 ( talk) 12:51, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. She seems to have no notability outside of that event. Seems to be a textbook example of WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS 86.23.109.101 ( talk) 12:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Delete Person has trivial coverage for their one notable event in which they was shot compared to other notable one-eventers like George Floyd or Rodney King who wer the center of their Police brutality movements and had mass coverage. She doesn't deserve her own article per WP:ONEEVENT. All this information can be mentioned the 2021 United States Capitol riots. ₛₒₘₑBₒdyₐₙyBₒdy₀₅ ( talk) 13:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and return to redirect. I do not see any way that the subject meets notability requirements other than their involvement with the Capitol riot. Unlike the case of George Floyd, Babbitt has not achieved independent notability.
    5225C ( talk • contributions) 13:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, move to 'Shooting of Ashli Babbitt'. In the midst of this historical event the shooting death of a 14-year Air Force veteran stands out as the day's tragedy. Much coverage has already been given and it's still early in the reporting of yesterday's events. Randy Kryn ( talk) 13:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete far-right propaganda effort to sensationalise incident. Acousmana ( talk) 13:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol per WP:BLP1E. Some Dude From North Carolina ( talk) 13:27, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delect & redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol per WP:BLP1E. RIP Kingoflettuce ( talk) 13:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete The only notable thing about her was that she committed a crime and was shot. RIP but not notable. -- Kndimov ( talk) 13:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol per WP:BLP1E Jayden ( talk) 13:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Agree that this is a far-right propaganda effort to sensationalize incident of a non-notable person that was shot while in the process of committing a crime. TFBCT1 ( talk) 13:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Delete. Lunacy isn't notability. TunaSushi ( talk) 14:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Not notable outside the manner of death, I am also fine with Redirect Mardetanha ( talk) 14:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. Subject not notable enough for own article. Kstern ( talk) 14:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete The subject does not, in any way, warrant their own article. Redirection would be acceptable, but an individual article is completely unnecessary and not how things like this are usually handled. Tearsarerisen ( talk) 14:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol per above. Babbitt is notable for one event, and if this had not happened, she would not be notable at all. If people want to learn more about the casualties, we can include that in a section of the larger article. Bkissin ( talk) 14:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete The subject does not, in any way, warrant their own article. Redirection would be acceptable, but an individual article is completely unnecessary and not how things like this are usually handled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.56.94.96 ( talk) 14:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. Doesn't seem notable enough to warrant an entire article on her. Thanks, EDG 543 ( message me) 14:27, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. This person does not meet the notability standard. U-dble ( talk) 14:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and redirect classic WP:BLP1E (only noteworthy for a single event and not independently notable). Neutrality talk 14:32, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • ’’’Redirect/merge’’’ - does not meet notability, covered entirely within context of preexisting article. 98.217.255.37 ( talk) 14:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. Not notable beyond this single event. -- Slashme ( talk) 14:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Do we really want to consult the notability clause here on Wikipedia to decide this? Because according to WP:N she deserves an article. She receives significant coverage from reliable and independent sources. I know what WP:BLP1E says, not discounting that, but we literally have thousands of articles on individuals who are basically known for one thing. We jump at the chance to write an article on a new footballer who played their first match for a professional club. What happens if that player meets tragedy and no longer plays after one match? At some point the article is brought up for AfD and likely deleted. How is this any different? A redirect is sensible but I'd lean towards leaving this alone and coming back six months from now to see what has happened. -- ARoseWolf ( Talk) 14:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. Babbitt is not noteworthy outside of this event, and her current biography could easily be put into a section in the main article for the event's page. -- SgtShyGuy ( talk) 14:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep-per WP:RAPID. We should wait to see if more significant coverage emerges about her and her role. This happened yesterday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alienmandosaur ( talk • contribs) 14:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • It is entirely possible that future coverage of the late Ms. Babbitt will lead to her meeting notability criteria; as of right now, however, this is not the case. Including what meager details are known in the article on the terrorist attack seems a reasonable compromise; merge and redirect until and unless circumstances change. DS ( talk) 14:55, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    • And always remember: "notability" and "importance" are not the same thing. Ms. Babbitt's death is as important as any other person's. DS ( talk) 14:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to the Capitol storm article. Clear example of single subject notability. It's unlikely anything that will be written about her will be about anything except her death during her participation in the insurrection. Macktheknifeau ( talk) 14:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Everyone on the right and left needs to understand the motivations that led this woman to sacrifice her life for a demagogue. Amyzex ( talk) 15:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep With over 450,000 hits she is now notable. And she is now called a martyr for one political side, so she will be talked like it happened for George Floyd. May like it or not, but now she is history. -- Robertiki ( talk) 15:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect per any of the reasons above. Although I might wish otherwise ( martyrs are not all to be admired), just too newsworthy to disappear altogether. If expunging of her information within the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol article might be a danger later on, a Merge should be instigated instead. Ref (chew) (do) 15:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Merge and Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. See Wikipedia:BASIC & WP:1E - Depth of coverage is not substantial enough to establish notability, and it isn't established that there is sufficient weight for a standalone article. Consider breaking this into its own page should these thresholds be met. Additionally, with four deaths now being reported, it seems likely that those will be their own section rather than four unique pages. DMBradbury 15:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Reply There were actually four people who died during these events. We don't yet know the full story of the other three, but do they all get their own article? PatGallacher ( talk) 15:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect or Merge. Not notable. The deaths can be covered on the main page about the storming. Biglittlehugesmall65 ( talk) 15:20, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, without prejudice against re-splitting in the future if significantly more information about other noteworthy activities or events in her life becomes available. Page view counts aren't an argument for notability. XOR'easter ( talk) 15:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. A brief mention in the main article is sufficent 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, as she is not notable beyond her status as a death within the US Capitol. KyuuA4 ( Talk:キュウ) 15:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Clear example of a WP:BLP1E. PrimaPrime ( talk) 15:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to storming of the Capitol article. Zero independent notability. -- P-K3 ( talk) 15:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. There is no suggestion that this woman was a leader or that she ever did anything noteworthy except die. Calmecac5 ( talk) 15:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 15:52, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. If everyone on Lists of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States has an article, we might be able to argue this lady deserved one too. However, they don't, and given the vast number of people killed by US law enforcement daily, even giving articles to the ones that spark massive protests and media coverage for a very short time would flood Wikipedia. See WP:NOTWHOSWHO, JTdale Talk~ 16:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep It is way too soon to determine the lasting notability of this individual. And I fear most delete !votes are subconsciously (at best) politically driven. But seeing as I have nothing to back up and substantiate that, I will take the official position that it is simple just too soon to determine the subject's lasting notability and urge the close Admin to come the same conclusion. We can revisit this when the dust settles and her lasting notability is 20/20. True CRaysball | #RaysUp 16:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
    • I have no clue what alternate world you're in to think that the people that are voting delete have been politically motivated. I am a Trump supporter, and yet I still voted delete because this person is not notable. Please do not throw around statements like this. Lettler hello • contribs 16:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
      • I didn't "throw it around". I was very careful in my wording to make it clear that it was a fear and unsubstantiated opinion which should be taken with a grain of salt. True CRaysball | #RaysUp 17:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Speedy delete per nom. Non-notable life, not particularly notable death, either. Of no encyclopedic value besides what is inarguably DUE at the storming article. Kingsif ( talk) 16:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete – satisfies the three conditions of WP:BLP1E. Thrakkx ( talk) 16:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete similar to Thai diver Saman Kunan who died during a notable event ( Tham Luang cave rescue). Standalone bio was deleted. Dying during a notable event does not inherently mean one inherits that notability (BLP1E). Enwebb ( talk) 16:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Merger with the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol article. - satisfies the three conditions of WP:BLP1E. Mt.FijiBoiz ( talk) 16:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This is ridiculous. She is not notable. Lettler hello • contribs 16:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete She has no notability outside the article on the storming. Nickpheas ( talk) 16:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Unlike George Floyd, her death has not met with domestic and international outrage amongst the public and political leaders (that could extend her BLP beyond the 1E); WP:TOOSOON is not a good reason here as because she is deceased, her BLP is unlikely to develop further beyond this incident. A classic BLP1E. No problem as a redirect/merge to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, but the BLP should be protected for a period to stop it from being abused for other purposes (i.e. WP:SOAPBOX etc). Britishfinance ( talk) 17:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Wikipedia is a neutral encyclopaedia and as such her article should be kept. Signoredexter ( talk) 17:12, 7th January 2021 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect to 2021 United States Capitol protests per nom and others, due to content worth keeping but not deserving of its own article. Plus it's a good compromise between the large numbers of both keep and delete arguments. ~EdGl talk 17:14, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete As nominator says, textbook BLP1E. I'm not seeing any other pathway to notability. Teemu08 ( talk) 17:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect and merge or keep: would be non-notable WP:BLP1E if she was still alive, but her death makes her notable. She is the only person directly killed in the violence at the Capitol, which incident itself is of major historic importance. (Also note that the police refer to her by a different last name, so another redirect from her legal name should be created.) 108.31.207.214 ( talk) 17:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Merge any pertinent information with relevant sections at 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. Clearly fails WP:BLP1E. KidAd talk 17:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect She is not notable outside of this event, and her death is covered in the main article. Rockandrollherold ( talk) 17:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as meeting the criteria of WP:BLP1E that says not to give her an article. –  Muboshgu ( talk) 17:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete or Redirect - only notable for being in the wrong place/wrong time - the main article should mention her death, but a full article is way over the top. - HammerFilmFan
  • Delete per GW.-- Jorm ( talk) 17:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:1E Thundermaker ( talk) 17:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. Have delete !voters citing WP:BLP1E actually read that policy? It says articles should be deleted when they're about people who played insignificant roles in major events, or major roles in insignificant events; this, however, is a person who played a major role in a major event; that is to say, precisely the kind of article the guideline suggests we should keep. No objection, of course, to re-evaluating in a month or so. –  Arms & Hearts ( talk) 17:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, mention her there (briefly). -- Tataral ( talk) 17:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per WP:1E -- Tagishsimon ( talk) 17:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Ashli is an important personality with great service to the US, a veteran. Her death is a great tragedy. She deserves personal page. I have no doubt.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aa1Bb2Cc3 ( talk • contribs)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, El_C 16:42, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Clarification: El C relisted this as a result of Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2021 January 10. This is why new comments are appearing after three weeks. There may well have been new sources in the meantime.— S Marshall  T/ C 17:11, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, much of the historical story of the day concerns Babbitt's death and the circumstances leading up to it. Bill Maher focused on her on his most recent show, and page sources have grown. Passes policy concerns easily (a major person within a notable event). Randy Kryn ( talk) 16:48, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete zero notability except in her connection to the 1/6 attack. As a result, it will be much more straightforward to discuss her in an article about the larger event. VQuakr ( talk) 17:21, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete fails WP:BIO1E. She is only known for her role in the Capitol insurrection, the available sources are either about the Capitol insurrection or (in a few cases) give a few biographical details as part of coverage of the Capitol insurrection. Furthermore her role in the Capitol insurrection isn't very large, if she hadn't been there then the event would have happened in the same way and it would have had more or less the same impact. This is the opposite of George Floyd, where the event is his own death and he played a central role. Her death is definitely worth a paragraph or two in 2021 storming of the United States Capitol but it's not worth a standalone article. Hut 8.5 17:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete She is only notable for being killed in the DC riot, thus is part of the DC riot. She is not independently notable. There is no evidence prior to her death she was a major part of (or a significant figure in) the stop the steal movement. Nor that she was a leading instigator of the riot, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Slatersteven ( talk) 18:11, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Textbook WP:BIO1E. Neutrality talk 18:16, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This fails WP:BIO1E Not individually notable. In addition it fails the WP:LASTING test after a couple of months, no one will be talking about her. I think there is enough material about her death in the Capitol insurrection article as is warranted. A separate article on her death is unnecessary and something that I object to. Walrus Ji ( talk) 18:27, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Fails WP:BLP1E. No notability outside of the event, and her death is not so significant that it needs its own page. Her death is contained on the storming of the Capitol page. –  Muboshgu ( talk) 18:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Redirect to article on the riot. She is not individually notable. -- Khajidha ( talk) 19:57, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete This is a total and complete case of BLP1E. Yes, she is dead, but that applies to recent deaths as well. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:36, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • 'Delete completely and utterly non-notable insurrectionist who died doing dumb and highly illegal things. CUPIDICAE💕 22:45, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Scrub and start again. WP:TNT, although deletion is not required. The hundreds of edits on the day of creation on the day she died was too hasty and threw in far too many primary sources. Two weeks later there are much better sources. Don't try to fix the 7 Jan material that was built on poor quality sources, but start again. -- SmokeyJoe ( talk) 22:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • 'Delete and redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol per BLP1E. ♟♙ ( talk) 00:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Keep per WP:RAPID. We should strive to have more articles on notable women, not less.-- Darwinek ( talk) 00:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC) reply
  • Delete & Redirect to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol - Clearly fails WP:BIO1E... simply put, no one would know who she was if she hadn't died while taking part in the event on January 6th... no sources show any kind of notable life before the event, she was not a major player in the event, nor was she the only death during the event... the paragraph already on the event's article seems to be all the information there is available on her... - Adolphus79 ( talk) 02:33, 21 January 2021 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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