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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. ( non-admin closure) MrScorch6200 ( talk | ctrb) 04:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC) reply

2013 CONCACAF Under-15 Championship

2013 CONCACAF Under-15 Championship (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Contested PROD, with the rationale "clearly notable" provided without any elucidation. Per This discussion and this discussion, consensus is that junior tournaments need to satisfy GNG and are not inherently notable simply because they have been organised by a regional confederation. No indication that this tournament has received the required level of significant, reliable, non-routine coverage to satisfy GNG. Also significant WP:NOTSTATS concerns due to an almost complete lack of sourced prose. Fenix down ( talk) 10:07, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 12:09, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 12:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - Competition is notable and the competition is even used by FIFA to determine whether players are allowed to represent other national teams in future. TheBigJagielka ( talk) 18:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - could you please expand on this considering the previous AfDs noted above for similar youth tournaments and show how the competition fulfils GNG. Fenix down ( talk) 21:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - @ Fenix down: I'll try, I'm not very good at explaining things. The world governing body of football, FIFA use competitions organised by the six confederations (this one is organised by CONCACAF - one of the six confederations) when taking into account whether a player can represent another nation. The FIFA statutes refer to the competitions organised by the six confederations as "official competitions" and the list of confederations are on page 17.
In Article 8.1 of the 2013 Statutes (page 65), it says that a player can not play for another nation if he has played in this competition before obtaining citizenship of another country.
"He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an Official Competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an Official Competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play" - Page 65 of FIFA's statutes
FIFA define an official competition as "a competition for representative teams organised by FIFA or any Confederation" - Page 5 of FIFA's statutes
For example, if Leighton Thomas Jr. the golden boot winner from the 2013 competition relocated to Canada and earned citizenship through residency, he wouldn't be able to play for Canada's national football (soccer) team because he played in this CONCACAF-organised tournament for Cayman Islands prior to gaining citizenship. Unlike most other youth football tournaments, this one (and those organised by confederations) have the ability to 'bind'/ cap-tie players to the respective national team. TheBigJagielka ( talk) 21:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC) reply
So how does this indicate GNG? Why does what you have said equate to significant, reliable coverage? As Number 57 has inadvertantly shown, the most readily available sources are simply word for word copies of what appears very much like a Concacaf press release. Fenix down ( talk) 06:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Comment - @ Number 57: did you actually read these "sources"? They are essentially all repetition of the same press release with almost identical, if not identical quotes from the Concacaf president and a brief description of how the logo was designed. They clearly all come from the same source, are all very brief and in no way establish GNG. Where is the in depth non-routine coverage of the tournament. @ Davey2010: might also want to reread the various sources provided. Fenix down ( talk) 06:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • I completely disagree, and would politely suggest you give them a third viewing. For example, this source which you quote in support of GNG even has a logo on it confirming that it is a CONCACAF press release!! To go through them in detail:
  • Bahamas - this is the source acknowledging it is a CONCACAF press release and therefore a primary source entirely unsuitable for establishing GNG. It deals mainly with how the logo was designed and contains a quote from Jeffrey Webb. The majority of this report is word for word identical to the original press release
  • Bermuda - clearly states at the top that it is an announcement from CONCACAF
  • Jamaica - is word for word identical to Bermuda's reporting of the announcement and so cannot be used to support GNG twice!
  • St Lucia - comes back as a 404 error for me. Did you mistype this? However, if it is an interview with FA technical directors, therefore people affiliated with CONCACAF it is hardly a secondary source in my opinion.
  • St Vincent - once you strip out the WP:ROUTINE listing of the teams competing and the Vincentian squad, there is only about three sentences in this article, which is basically a summary of this press release.
  • Guyana - is word for word identical to Jamaica and Bermuda, so cannot be used to support GNG and is further evidence that this is a pro forma press release from a primary source as this report is featuring in multiple countries.
  • Caymans islands is word for word identical to this CONCACAF press release
What I think we have established here for the first set of sources presented is that they come essentialy from two CONCACAF press releases and as such are not indicative of substantial coverage in secondary sources to satisfy GNG. For the other sources you listed:
  • mid tournament report - is simply routine match reporting in only the most cursory of detail and a list of games that will take place in the future, this sort of reporting is performed for almost all tournaments in local journalism around the world whether international or club.
  • trials report - is a brief two sentence quote from the manager with the squad listing tacked on the end, no substance to it whatsoever, your local non-league team's manager would get this sort of quote in the local paper week in week out.
  • report on the final - as you say yourself, this is just a match report essentially saying who scored and when, there is no wider discussion of the tournament, players or teams.
  • Bermuda squad announcement - again as you say, this is just a list of names, there's no discussion of the players themselves or the tournament, just a statement that they are going.
  • Jamaica-Greneda match report - this is a 5-sentence match report. No substance whatsoever, just a very brief summary of the match.
Yes the competition is being covered, but only through press releases that have been regurgitated almost verbatim by the participating countries' newspapers and a few brief squad announcements / match reports. There is no discussion of the wider impact of this tournament to satisfy GNG that I can see. Fenix down ( talk) 11:40, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Well I think we'll have to disagree, as for me, this is more than sufficient coverage. If you want discussion on the wider impact, this article talks about it ("Sustainability is integral to CONCACAF now and competitions like this, where youth is the main focus, will only help contribute to a better future. Islands that hadn’t played competitively for a number of years were finally given a go, aspiring footballers in their early teens were given the opportunity of a lifetime and significant coverage went to the youth teams of 22 CONCACAF sides which can only be beneficial economically and socially."), but I'm sure you'll find a reason to disregard it ;) Number 5 7 12:53, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
PS, this is the St Lucia source. The SLFA are not the same thing as CONCACAF. Number 5 7 12:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Aside from WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, U-19 UEFA players are almost always likely to be professionals. Here we are dealing with people who are essentially school children, the two are not comparable in any way. What we have here is an article on a number of very junior international teams (by age I mean), for which not one article currently exists on any of the teams, and a competition where not one single participant could be considered notable either by WP:NFOOTY of WP:GNG criteria, yet somehow one edition of the competition in which they all partake is notable. That seems completely backwards to me logically. Fenix down ( talk)
  • We are not talking about the notability of players. We're talking about the actual tournament itself. A tournament doesn't necessarily gain notability solely based on the notability of players. A more comparable tournament would be 2014 UEFA European Under-17 Championship. Why delete one and not the other? Both, the two I mentioned and the one up for deletion qualify because they're official competitions. Kingjeff ( talk) 23:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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