Scorp—I raised what may be a useful issue there, and wrote this to TRM alone, since you're away. TONY (talk) 13:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XX — July 6, 2008

Thank you for reading WikiProject Professional Wrestling's 20th Newsletter Edition

Project News December to Dismember (2006) is currently under Featured Article review (link). Starrcade (1983) has failed its Featured Article nomination (link). List of WWE SmackDown video game titles has been elevated to Featured List status (link). IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship has been removed as a Featured List (link). Faces of Fear (link), Maria Kanellis (link), Paul London (link), Survivor Series (1994) (link), The Mega Bucks (link) and WWE SmackDown (video game series) (link) have been elevated to Good article status. Backlash (2003), Dark Angel (wrestler), Juggernaut (wrestler), SummerSlam (1988), SummerSlam (2004), and Survivor Series (2004) are currently Good article candidates. Lockdown (2008) (link) and Survivor Series (2007) (link) are currently under Peer Review. Category:Vengeance is being discussed at WP:CFD for renaming, it's discussion page can be found here. The C-Class rating has been introduced. The rating falls between articles that are more than Start-Class, but less than B-Class. Immediately put into effect, our project has begun use of the List-Class rating. The List-Class rating is for list articles that are of less quality than B-Class articles. Current Events At Night of Champions: Mark Henry became the new ECW Champion. Kofi Kingston won the WWE Intercontinental Championship. Cody Rhodes turned on Hardcore Holly to capture the World Tag Team Championship with Ted DiBiase. On June 30, CM Punk won the World Heavyweight Championship on Raw. Trevor Murdoch was released from WWE on July 3. The Month in Wrestling History June 24, 2001 - Edge defeated Kurt Angle in the finals of the 2001 King of the Ring. June 26, 1992 - Buddy Rogers died of a stroke at age 71. June 28, 1999 - Steve Austin defeated The Undertaker for the WWF Heavyweight title. July 2, 1969 - "Iron" Mike DiBiase died of a heart attack in the ring. July 3, 2001 - AJ Styles and Jerry Lynn become the first NWA World Tag Team Champions under the ownership of TNA, via winning a tournament final. Professional Wrestling Article Stats Our goal is to get the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 631. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 2 3 5 FL 1 6 14 21 GA 5 17 45 67 B 1 14 65 202 282 C 1 10 44 55 Start 2 52 211 2310 2575 Stub 1 24 602 627 List 1 7 39 46 Assessed 3 74 335 3223 3639 Total 3 74 335 3223 3639

Member News Based on the members list, there are currently 397 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: 29 - WWE presents Night of Champions 1 - D.M.N.'s birthday 7 - Alex Roggio's and The Hybrid's birthdays 13 - TNA presents Victory Road Collaboration of the Week The article collaborations for July 6 through July 19 are Sean Waltman and The Attitude Era. Please help to improve these articles to match the quality of an ideal Wikipedia professional wrestling related article. The next articles for collaboration will be chosen on July 20. Cast your vote to select the collaboration for next week! — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Articles for Deletion Current: Jack Korpela, List of Ring of Honor events, List of World Wrestling Entertainment championships, Beer Money Inc., and The Badd guys. Kept: Redirected/Merged: Mark Beale, and Eric Mastrocola. Deleted: List of ECW events. From the Editors As I'm sure you noticed above, this is the 20th edition of the WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter! It has come a long way since the first issue, and I'm sure it will only improve from here. I'd like to thank everyone reading this for continuing to read the newsletter, biweekly. I'd like to especially thank those who have helped to get the newsletter to it's 20th edition; The Hybrid, The Chronic, TJ Spyke, Alex Roggio, LAX, ThinkBlue, Nikki311, GaryColemanFan, Gavyn Sykes, D.M.N., Naha, NiciVampireHeart, SRX, Zenlax and, RkOrton. Also, lastly I'd like to thank Misza13, for sending the newsletter out for us, though his bot. His bot has to be the most important part of the process, because without it, the newsletter would not get sent to project members. I know that's a long list, but they all deserve recognition for their hard work towards the newsletter. So again, thank you to that list of people, and thank you to all of the newsletter's biweekly readers. If you have an questions, comments, or feedback about the newsletter, remember those links below. -- iMatthew T. C. Contributors to this Issue: IMatthew ( talk · contribs) NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) SRX ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Hey, I'm just curious, where do you usually go to find references for The Simpsons episode articles? Gary King ( talk) 06:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The FLC contest you and TRM had a while ago inspired me. I'm thinking of something similar, and would like to get your input on it. Thanks! Drewcifer ( talk) 03:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XXI — July 20, 2008

Project News A fact from Porkchop Cash and Armageddon (2006) were featured on the Main Page in the Did you know? column on July 11, 2008 and July 17, 2008, respectively. December to Dismember (2006) is currently under Featured Article review (link). WWE No Way Out (link) and 2008 WWE Draft (link) are current Featured List candidates Backlash (2003) (link), Backlash (2004) (link), Survivor Series (2004) (link), and Unforgiven (2007) (link) have been elevated to Good article status. Cyber Sunday (2007), Dark Angel (wrestler), Juggernaut (wrestler), Royal Rumble (2007), SummerSlam (1988), SummerSlam (2004), and Vengeance: Night of Champions are currently Good article candidates. SummerSlam (2003) (link) and Survivor Series (2007) (link) are currently under Peer Review. Per this edit and the discussion here, date linking is not mandatory in articles. This mainly applies to the project's pay-per-view expanded articles. Please take this regulation in notice and apply it to the project's expanded pay-per view articles. New parameters have been added to the {{ Infobox Wrestling event}} template, for the discussion explaining these parameters, see the discussion here Current Events Ashley Massaro was released from WWE on July 9. Taylor Wilde won the TNA Women's Championship on the July 10 edition of TNA Impact!, defeating Awesome Kong. This Month in Wrestling History July 9, 2000 - Booker T defeated Jeff Jarrett for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. July 11, 1961 - Gene Kiniski defeated Verne Gagne for the AWA World Heavyweight Championship. July 12, 1992 - Jimmy Snuka defeated Johnny Hot Body for the ECW Heavyweight Championship. July 12, 1999 - Hulk Hogan defeated Randy Savage for the WCW World Heavyweight title. July 16, 2001 - Terry Gordy died of a heart attack at age 40. July 17, 1988 - Bruiser Brody died in Puerto Rica after being stabbed, aged 42. Professional Wrestling Article Stats Our goal is to get the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 625. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 2 3 5 FL 1 6 14 21 GA 5 18 51 74 B 1 14 66 203 284 C 1 9 56 66 Start 2 50 202 1734 1988 Stub 1 23 601 625 List 2 20 572 594 Assessed 3 74 346 3234 3657 Total 3 74 346 3234 3657

Member News Based on the members list, there are currently 401 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: 7 - Alex Roggio's and The Hybrid's birthdays 13 - TNA presents Victory Road 19 - ProtoWolf's & The Founders Intent's birthday 20 - WWE presents The Great American Bash 22 - Darrenhusted's birthday 27 - Sundogs' birthday 29 - Kris Classic's birthday 31 - Normy's birthday Collaboration of the Week The article collaboration for July 20 through August 2 is Chris Jericho. The Featured article collaboration is Torrie Wilson. Please help to improve these articles to match the quality of an ideal Wikipedia professional wrestling related article. The next articles for collaboration will be chosen on August 3. Cast your vote to select the collaboration for next week! — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Articles for Deletion Current: Taryn Terrell (wrestler), and List of wrestling championships. Kept: Redirected/Merged: List of World Wrestling Entertainment championships. Deleted: Jack Korpela (2), Velocity Championship Wrestling (VCW), List of Ring of Honor events, Marc Loyd, Tna Wrestlers Payroll, TNA INCOME, TNA payroll, Beer Money Inc., The Badd guys, and Cyme Tyme Cenation. From the Editors Contributors to this Issue: IMatthew ( talk · contribs) NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) SRX ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Hi Scorpion, hope you had a great break. Things are moving along quite nicely at WP:FLC right now, the backlog is virtually under control and we're heading for the highest number of promotions in a single month. Let me know when you're back. Oh, we've also had a few little discussions on the talk page but nothing major has come out of it, but it's probably worth you casting your eyes over it. All the best. The Rambling Man ( talk) 06:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I am trying to resubmit the List of Korean War Medal of Honor recipients as an FLC. I think I fixed all the problems with it. I am not sure what to do to the articles talk page or to the archived fail log as noted in the resubmission procedures. Could you walk me through how to do that. -- Kumioko ( talk) 22:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks-- Kumioko ( talk) 00:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Good to see this list, I spent three weeks in Leamington and Windsor in May a few years back, great birding

1. I've changed California to Ontario in line 2!
2. Your headings are not MoS, overcapitalised, should be "Ducks, geese and swans", not "Ducks, Geese and Swans"
3. I would force the table width so all are the same, looks better. In the featured list, List of birds of Thailand I used 72%, which fits nicely with 150px thumbs
4. I would add a bit of description to each family article, with refs. The Thailand article has descriptions and refs (77), but not all are appropriate to Canada, the featured list list of birds in Canada and the United States has shorter, less reffed summaries, but more appropriate for you area. It also has lots of relevant images you could use

Hope this helps, let me know if any queries, jimfbleak ( talk) 05:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

breeding - don't like the coloured boxes, also very info-minimalist. Why not roll that column and the notes into "status" so you can have "resident breeder", "breeding summer migrant", "accidental" "winter visitor" "rare breeder" - much more informative, instead of the unending yes/no lists

Family table - Look how many families you have - imho, to have such a long table in the lead would distort the article

summaries, nothing wrong with summary, I'd still add a sentence or so for each family section jimfbleak ( talk) 06:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I still think that the table will be very long, fine with the summaries. Yes, note endangered, make it clear on what basis (in Ontario, Canada or globally) I'm just in-lining your refs. jimfbleak ( talk) 06:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

You can define and combine statuses as you see fit - for example, in the UK, the Northern Pintail is a scarce breeder but common winter visitor. jimfbleak ( talk) 06:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

"*" means extinct, b better if it's only breeding or not - you could refine the system a bit if you wished eg R resident breeder, M migrant breeder, w winter visitor, A accidental, then you could have Rw for a resident breeder/winter visitor jimfbleak ( talk) 06:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

It's been a subject of some debate and the conclusion was really that no actual "supports" were necessary for promotion, just that all major points have been addressed and one of the directors is happy with the list. I have been concerned for a while that we get plenty of comments and not enough !votes, but the general consensus was that a minimum number of supports isn't necessary. Welcome back, by the way. The Rambling Man ( talk) 07:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The problem with letting lists drag on and on is that the backlog fills up quick. Right now we're getting around five new lists a day to FLC - say half don't get the support you're after, we'll have a permanent backlog of around 18 lists which is (a) unmanageable and (b) offputting to reviewers. I've tended to be a little harsher with failures as well, I want to see people pushing lists through PR and not use FLC as a replacement for that service.

As for a new contest, I like the idea of a trio of vastly different topics, all good. Drewcifer was talking about setting up a Discog contest which is okay in principle but check out some of the discogs currently running (and the HUUUUUGE effort I put on the Mark Lanegan discography - it was reference-hell) and that worries me a bit. But the more the merrier I guess! The Rambling Man ( talk) 07:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Well perhaps we'll promote with different criteria then. FAC doesn't work out like that and they have a smaller backlog than FLC. Also, as I said with the current influx, waiting 10 or 15 days will give us a permanent backlog of 15 or 20 lists which will kill the process. The Rambling Man ( talk) 15:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

And, to be honest, by saying you need 2 supports, you're just reinserting the old "minimum of x supports" criterion which we voted to get rid of. The point of us being directors is that we are capable of deciding when a list is suitable enough. Hell, if it's not, you'll soon be told, it'll be up for relegation in no time. The Rambling Man ( talk) 15:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi Scorpion! Good on ya — we always need more bird article editors! ; ) The only potential thing I can see with your new list is that most birders are used to seeing things in taxonomic order, which is the order your list starts in when someone first accesses it. However, if they then click one of the sortable column headers, there's no way to get the list back in taxonomic order. Is there a way to put numbers in a hidden column, which could be used to resort it taxonomically if someone wanted to see them in that order again (i.e. "Click here for taxonomic order")?

One other thing we (the WikiProject Birds folks) are slowly working on are a set of standard short paragraphs to run at the top of each subsection. Unfortunately, we're a long way from being done, but it's something you might want to incorporate into your list someday. The idea is to create three or four line summaries of the families (what they look like, what sort of habitat they prefer, etc.) so that someone unfamiliar with the birds—and potentially without a reference book to refer to—might still have a chance of narrowing down what they're looking at.

Hope that helps. I'm off to Costa Rica later this afternoon, but I should have access to the internet sporadically over the next few weeks. Feel free to drop me a line if you have more questions—but don't be surprised if you don't hear from me for days at a time! MeegsC | Talk 10:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

You had a couple comments on the FLC I submitted but I wasn't sure what they meant. You said numbers under ten should be spelled out but the only place I see numbers less than 10 are in unit names and in dates. What do I need to change? Also, in a few comments you said no full stop, what does that mean? Thanks-- Kumioko ( talk) 16:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I think Kumioko meant me... The Rambling Man ( talk) 17:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I think I made all the changes you requested but could you take another look and tell me if I need to change anything else?-- Kumioko ( talk) 18:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I do believe her middle or former last name is " Pai Gow" not Pigal. It makes sense that they would use a casino game as her name Ctjf83 Talk 20:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC) reply

That's fine...other wise go here and listen to what you think it is, it is a minute in. My spelling is pronounced PIE GOW. If you still think it is Pigal, we can just leave it omitted. Ctjf83 Talk 00:05, 26 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Well? did you/are you going to watch the vid? Ctjf83 Talk 03:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Ok, we can just leave it blank until one is confirmed Ctjf83 Talk 03:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC) reply

NO! how are ex'es related in any way? not by blood, and not by marriage, therefore they are NOT related! Ctjf83 Talk 21:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Why don't u discuss it here before just reverting everything like you always do! Ctjf83 Talk 21:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Some of the headings are still over-capitalised, eg first one should be "Ducks, geese and swans". The capitalisation in the TOC should match the article headings, otherwise the links don't work eg [[#New World quail|New World quail]] Otherwise looks pretty good. I'd tweak the intros a bit when you get time, The procellariids are the main group of medium-sized 'true petrels', characterised by united nostrils with medium septum, and a long outer functional primary. is a bit daunting. jimfbleak ( talk) 07:20, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

This nomination currently has 3 supports and has been reviewed for over 10 days. Can you please promote or archive this nomination. Thanks! -- K. Annoyomous 24 22:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

This nomination currently has 1 support and has been reviewed for over 10 days. Can you please promote or archive this nomination. Thanks! -- K. Annoyomous 24 22:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Since you and CrzyCheetah are so concerned that my promotions are compromising the process, I'll leave it to you to promote lists once again. I was pretty pleased with reducing the backlog and increasing throughput but I completely understand the concerns that this may reduce quality. Right now, allowing lists to persist for 15–20 days will result in a permanent backlog of 20-odd lists. That'll kill FLC.

I'll go back to my pre-FL director role of just reviewing lists. The director position seem now seems pointless with us in conflict over minimum number of votes to support promotion (despite the community voting against the 4 vote promotion rule). So, just to let you know I'll be look into resigning my position as FL director shortly. I don't wish to waste the time of the community and do Wikipedia any harm. I think there's a tendency to migrate back to what is comfortable, i.e. that someone else will do our job for us - ie. blame the community if we promote something that isn't 100% perfect. I hope, in your absence, I didn't cause too much damage and I wish you much luck in the future. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I've opened a thread at WT:FLC to discuss my position. It seems pointless for me to continue in the role if the community disagree consistently with my decision-making. We'll see. The Rambling Man ( talk) 22:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC) reply

This nomination currently has 1 support and has been reviewed for over 10 days. Can you please promote or archive this nomination. Thanks! -- K. Annoyomous 24 00:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I was wondering if The Rambling Man is resigning as FL director and you shouldn't accept your own list as a FL, how are you supposed to have your list become a FL? -- K. Annoyomous 24 00:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Hope you had a good holiday. As for TRM, I was looking to expand the reception section a bit, before I nominated it. It's not really necessary, but for such a "hyped" episode I can't actually find any more reviews. Not even viewing figures (apart from on Simpsons Channel). As for Oakley, any image is good, and he'll probably be able to get us a few more in the future, if we ask nicely. What about the questions? In theory he should have some more time on his hands to answer them, considering he isn't involved in Class Dismissed anymore. Anyway, the Comic-Con panel included alot of the current staff, so I should be able to get some more staff images off Flickr soon. Ah well, I think we need to make getting those three episode articles to FA our current main priority. Gran ² 19:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I'll see what I can knock up about Brown tomorrow, and nominate it soon after. Gran ² 22:32, 27 July 2008 (UTC) reply

You might want to weigh in on the discussions at the bottom here: Talk:List of The Simpsons characters. A user/IP (same person) seems insistant on not having a tablified list and including every single minor and one-time character (differing from the proposed, although not yet implemented, design you can see somewhere near the bottom as well). They also seem against debate and just want to ignore/react angrily to, the majority of things Maitch and I have said. Gran ² 19:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Seems like 76.126.211.165 is really committed to calling the Eli Manning pass to David Tyree‎ play a fluke and citing sources that are from blogs and not from respected news outlets. Any ideas on how to stop this besides just reverting what he's doing? Chengwes ( talk) 12:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I guess it was just a dream of mine then, I remember something about IGN.

Well, I'm not that crazy about the reception section of The Principal and the Pauper. I think we should be more selective the quotes we use. Not all of the quotes are particularly interesting an insightful. It seems like we just threw in whatever we could find. (I said something similar at the article talk page a while ago, but never got a response.)

In addition, I think the overall organization of the article can be better. There's no clear division betweeen "Controversy" and "Reception". "Controversy" should probably be a subsection of the latter (like in A Streetcar Named Marge.)

You're free to nominate The Principal and the Pauper, but I probably won't support it at this time. I'll take a look at the other two articles when I get a chance. Zagalejo ^^^ 19:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC) reply

I don't think the reception section should be a subsection of "Controversy", since not all of the reception details (like the ratings information) are directly related to the controversy. (People didn't know the episode would be bad before watching it.)

To answer your other question about the Reception section, one quote that should probably go is the first one, from the Alberti book. That's not really critical commentary. It's just a statement of fact (which has already been discussed in the article.)

In other news, I was looking at The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase, and I'm a bit concerned about what may be considered borderline plagiarism. Compare this section with this. A lot of the phrases in the article are too similar to the passage in Alberti's book. We can't just change the order of the words; we need to use our own words as often as possible. (That, or use direct quotations from the source.) Zagalejo ^^^ 21:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The Principal and the Pauper will probably need some more restructuring. I'll play around with it. Zagalejo ^^^ 00:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC) reply

It's still not quite there yet. I'll do some more work on it later tonight. Zagalejo ^^^ 01:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Well, I've made a few big changes to the organization. I'm not sure if I'm satsfied yet. I'll have to sleep on it, and see what it looks like when I log in tomorrow. Zagalejo ^^^ 05:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The backlog is well and truly back with nine lists now overdue without support or opposition (except for the usual Be Black Hole Sun supports which I'm tending to discount entirely because of the track record of supporting for supporting's sake) - what do you think we should do? The Rambling Man ( talk) 07:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XXIII — August 17, 2008

Project Updates Featured news SummerSlam (2003) (link) is a current Featured Article candidate December to Dismember (2006) (link) is currently under Featured Article review. 2008 WWE Draft been renominated as a Featured List candidate, here IWGP Tag Team Championship (link) is a current Featured List removal candidate. Good article news Armageddon (2006), Dark Angel (wrestler), Juggernaut (wrestler), and Lockdown (2008) are currently Good article candidates. Other project news Sacrifice (2008) (link) and The Great American Bash (2005) (link) are currently under Peer Review. Hell in a Cell has been proposed to be merged into Professional wrestling match types, the discussion can be found here. WWE World Tag Team chamiopship, a current redirect to World Tag Team Championship (WWE) is currently a RfD. It's deletion page can be found here. This Month in Wrestling History August 3, 1997 - Bret Hart defeated The Undertaker for the WWF Heavyweight championship. August 4, 1997 - Lex Luger defeated Hulk Hogan to win the WCW Heavyweight title. August 7, 2002 - Ron Killings defeated Ken Shamrock for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. August 8, 1963 - Verne Gagne defeated Fritz Von Erich for the AWA World Heavyweight Championship. August 9, 1999 - Jackie Sato died of stomach cancer at age 41. August 12, 1995 - Brad Armstrong defeated Buddy Landel for the Smokey Mountain Heavyweight Championship. August 16, 1992 - The Great Muta defeated Riki Chōshū for the IWGP Heavyweight title. Professional Wrestling Article Stats Our goal is to get the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 625. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 2 3 5 FL 1 6 15 22 GA 5 20 56 81 B 1 15 67 203 286 C 1 10 60 71 Start 2 49 203 1735 1989 Stub 1 23 601 625 List 2 20 573 595 Assessed 3 74 351 3246 3674 Total 3 74 351 3246 3674

Member News Based on the members list, there are currently 406 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: For the month of August: 10 - TNA presents Hard Justice 12 - NickSentowski's birthday 16 - Lakers244805's birthday 17 - iMatthew's birthday; WWE presents SummerSlam 18 - Crash Underride's and Wrestlinglover's birthdays 19 - Darren Jowalsen's birthday 22 - HeartBurn Kid's birthday Recent News Collaboration of the Week The article collaborations for August 17 through August 29 are TBD and TBD. Please help to improve these articles to match the quality of an ideal Wikipedia professional wrestling related article. The next articles for collaboration will be chosen on August 30. Cast your vote to select the collaboration for next week! — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Articles for Deletion Current: Between the Ropes, Rycklon Stephens, Taryn Terrell (wrestler), and Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes. Kept: Redirected/Merged: Deleted: From the Editors Contributors to this Issue: NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Have fun. I'll do my best to keep the process under control. The Rambling Man ( talk) 20:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC) reply

A proposal at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Namespace for featured content pages to move some pages (unsure which) of the featured processes to portal pages. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Here is a source for the information: http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/2008standings/index.html I can see what you mean but MSNBC is pretty reputable, and the newstation in question was owned by NBC. Kevin Rutherford ( talk) 23:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC) reply

If you look to the far right of this page, http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/GL/95A/GL0000000.shtml it says the placement. Strangely, it shows China first but that might be because it is the host nation. Kevin Rutherford ( talk) 23:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I was talking about the overall place. I'm sorry if it didn't come out that way. Kevin Rutherford ( talk) 23:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Unless, I'm mistaken, the IOC sorts alphabetically by their respective national codes. i.e., Spain (ESP) is ahead of Romania (ROU). See the IOC listing -- Madchester ( talk) 03:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Check your email. :) Cirt ( talk) 11:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC) reply

The reason I added it was because I think NBC has only shown four medal events live (the four swimming from last night). Its fine like it is now. I just hope we don't have to go through the horror that we did last night. -- CWY2190( talk • contributions) 23:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Fair deal - the license eluded my gaze. London, huh? And you're at Laurier? Shame! :D chicgeek ^talk 00:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Pfft! Well regardless of the Laurier-ness, cheers for your work on the Olympic pages. Shame the Canadian page hasn't seen much positive action yet. Guess we'll wait until 2010 to make our mark. chicgeek ^talk 00:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hello!

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Homer Simpson's jobs (3rd nomination) was closed as no consensus, default to keep. In its current state, List of Homer Simpson's jobs is nothing more than a redirect to Homer Simpson and there is no evidence of the information from List of Homer Simpson's jobs currently being merged into Homer Simpson. Therefore, for all intents and purposes, List of Homer Simpson's jobs is currently deleted and in its place is a redirect. If the discussion defaulted to keep (even if it was with no consensus) and the accepted merger was not completed, I find the current solution the least appropriate due to the fact that all of the information from List of Homer Simpson's jobs is now removed from any article and all that remains is this external link with the same list which can, and I'm afraid will, also be deleted in the near future. I would support the merger in this case but not as an excuse to make deletion of it easier by selectively transferring info into an article and then deleting all of its components until the same result is achieved as would be by deleting the nominated article in the first place. Also, a properly performed merger should be mentioned in the edit summary as well as contain #REDIRECT [[PAGENAME]] {{R from merge}}, such as WP:MERGE directs due to WP:GFDL requirements. This was not done either.

Peace! SWik78 ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Well, I’m not really ready to argue over this one since it seems to be a touchy subject so I worry about opening up a can of worms. I just feel that the way the merge was done completely rendered WP:GFDL useless by wiping out any credit due to the editors who created the list article. Also, it seems to me that the merge proposal was a means to circumvent the lack of consensus to delete the article by very selectively merging the information deemed appropriate and leaving the rest in the history of the list article which I feel is an extremely liberal take on WP:IAR. I understand Homer Simpson is a GA and that unsourced fancruft lists most certainly don’t belong in a GA. Therefore, I fail to see a useful purpose in the proposed merger other than getting rid of the list article which, by the way, would not have hurt Homer’s article if it had remained as a standalone article. But, like I said, I’ll leave it alone even though I disagree with the way this was handled. SWik78 ( talk • contribs) 19:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks for helping The Simpsons Ride article achieve the GA status. Would you mind helping me improve the articles on Back to the Future: The Ride and Kongfrontation achieve GA status as well? One of the most notable steps will be reliable references. Thanks once again.-- Snowman Guy ( talk) 20:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Haven't you seen any newspaper last eight months? Belgian man ( talk) 20:32, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I agree with this, but only because we have a rather satisfying Concerns and controversies section on the main article yet. (Although the overkill of citations gives me the feeling that we do not trust our editors.) Greetings, Belgian man ( talk) 21:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Taiwan

Do you really think the Taiwanese bear the People's Republic flag because they simply like it? I think it is absolutely clear that they at least have to (in fact they are forced to but you will find that even more subjective, I guess) bear the communist flag. This might sound subjective, certainly for supporters of the Chinese political system, but it is a fact, and I do not know how to say it in another way. Stop the censorship, Wikipedia! Belgian man ( talk) 21:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I stop contributing at "source citation projects" such as that article. Takes a little bit too much time. Belgian man ( talk) 17:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hey Scorpion, can you do me a favour and talk things over with the above user. I closed his FLC today as little interest had been shown in it, and no support at all was forthcoming. Subsequently he's made two joke supports (he calls them "fan supports" to justify them) at lists which are clearly (as my subsequent reviews show) sub-FL-standard. I've directed him to you for all future discussion about his list of Assyrian Kings because I feel I can no longer remain neutral about it. Incidentally I think there's plenty wrong with his list too but since we've got plenty of other lists to review, I'll just get on with those. Hope you don't mind and hope you're enjoying the 'lympics, particularly that absolutely incredible men's relay for Phelps' second gold. Wowee! The Rambling Man ( talk) 21:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Also, although the Lostprophets discog was withdrawn, should it be left to Gimmebot to archive it correctly? Will that just happen naturally or ought it be transcluded on the failed log? The Rambling Man ( talk) 21:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

It should be transcluded to the failed log or Gimmebot won't see it. This is what happened with Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Stars awards when it was withdrawn. I happened to see it a month later so I archived it yesterday. Matthewedwards ( talk • contribs • email) 22:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

How dare you revert my constructive edits to this article?? Everyone knows that season 9 was the last good season. If you think Homer trying to make friends with some b-list celebrities is good Simpsons material, then you sir, are sorely mistaken. Faethon Ghost ( talk) 22:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Can you please take a look at the Pink Floyd discography to see if its ready for a Featured List nomination. I've done much work on it since its previous FL nomination. Why i'm asking you is because of your comment "Wow, it's nice to see a discography for a band that I'm actually familiar with". Thanks for your time. -- Be Black Hole Sun ( talk) 22:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Why do you think it is useful for this table to appear (someday) on articles like Canada at the 2008 Summer Olympics? In WP:WikiProject Olympics, we've never done that on any of the other ~3000 articles for past Games. It strikes me as a kind of WP:recentism, and per that guideline, will it really provide "long-term historical perspective" for these articles to have these tables? It strikes me as a rather "crufty" addition to these articles. — Andrwsc ( talk · contribs) 04:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Please help in improving the article List of most wealthy historical figures that you opposed in Featured list candidates. Please provide as many references and sources as you can. Thanks! -- Bugnot ( talk) 04:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Just FYI he nominated five articles at WP:FAC; they were all withdrawn because he was not the primary editor for any of them. I'm letting you know in case you would like to just withdraw his WP:FLC nominations, too, as those are similar situations. Gary King ( talk) 05:04, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I'm mostly concerned about stopping these nominations early so that nominators know that they shouldn't do this. In almost all of these cases it's because of new editors who think that FAC is a process where the whole community works together on articles, or something similar, and so if we let these editors know that this is not the case early on, then they will be on the right track. Gary King ( talk) 05:12, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi. Thanks for correcting my oversight not adding the reflist to Yates Cup. Cheers! DoubleBlue ( Talk) 22:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Any particular reason you removed my trivia section on "Jazzy and the Pussycats"? Jstohler ( talk) 17:21, 13 August 2008 (UTC) reply

" Trivia sections should not be categorically removed." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jstohler ( talk • contribs) 17:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I thought I'd bring this up with you, since you seem to be one of the more dedicated members who are editing the medal table; on the Beijing Olympics website it lists the last rank number as 48, but on here we have it as 49. I tried seeing what number was skipped on the Wiki table, but I was unable to do so. Maybe you can help. CoolKid1993 ( talk) 02:39, 16 August 2008 (UTC) reply

That is incorrect, you will note that in the second reference noted at the part citing the 2020 bid time frame, Bill Montogomery, AOC second-in-charge, notes that 2020 will be the earliest that Brisbane can bid. Foundationexpo88 ( talk) 10:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)Foundationexpo88 reply

Re:Brisbane 2020 Olympics

The AOC and Reuters are reliable sources. Foundationexpo88 ( talk) 10:15, 16 August 2008 (UTC)Foundationexpo88 reply

• As the 2020 bid is still of speculative nature, and as the bid will be decided in consultation with the AOC, it is important to put the AOC's counsel. Foundationexpo88 ( talk) 10:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)Foundationexpo88 reply

Just a question, how did you become an FL director?-- S _R X 00:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Sarcasm? But really, were you appointed or did you just make yourself a director?-- S _R X 01:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Ohh, never noticed that subpage with that discussion. Wish I was as active back then in FLC, congratulations by the way (I know late). -- S _R X 01:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Perfect! I'll stick it in there. Zagalejo ^^^ 04:28, 18 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Take My Life, Please, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Take My Life, Please is a redirect to a non-existent page ( CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Take My Life, Please, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot ( talk) 16:40, 19 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Please read the citation I put in the medal table article. It shows that I am correct. Smartyllama ( talk) 19:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Your edits to Summer_Olympic_Games#List_of_modern_Summer_Olympic_Games seem to have corrupted the dates of all the Games, for example you show Beijing as being from August 08 to December 08 and Athens from January 08 to May 08. I tried to revert the edit but the first line was missformatted so I wonder whether you've changed a template somehere? I'll leave you to sort it out. David Biddulph ( talk) 23:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi, sorry I don't log in often enough to WP. Not to labour the point, but surely a few words mentioning the fact that U.S. news sources rank according to totals could be added (wihtout passing judgement). Surely this is noteworthy??? Would have saved your and my time? I have stated the same on the article talk page here: [1] —  Deon Steyn ( talk) 12:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC) reply

As per our earlier communication, you reassured me that the deletion of James Clement, Eliza Orlins and Shii Ann Huang's articles were done out of a wider initiative to ensure that only contestants of Survivor who have done something truly noteworthy outside of the show should have a wikipedia article. So, as we discussed, other contestants' articles shall face deletion for the same reason. I have raised this clean-up issue on the Survivor contestants template discussion page. You should respond on that page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Survivor_contestants Kind regards, Yeldarb68 ( talk) 17:36, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Response to your response

There obviously isn't "consensus" that winners of the game are automatically worthy enough for having a wikipedia article if they haven't done anything noteworthy outside of the show, when evidently I do not agree with such a idea. Todd Herzog's article for instance looks like nothing more than a summary of the Survivor: China season; explaining how Peih-Gee got as far as she did, what strategic moves Amanda made, and the logic of why each person was voted out.

And how does one even define "winner". Does Rupert count as a winner, since he won America's tribal council? If so, shouldn't James Clement have his article reinstated, considering he won a similar sort of thing twice?

I believe the criteria for what makes an article legitimate and illegitimate as it stands is not clearly defined, to say the least. Maybe it should be placed on the actual contestants template discussion page, rather than you trying to explain it to me as an individual. It should be made clear to everyone somewhere so that people know how to implement policy correctly when an article is nominated for deletion. So do you think you could please state the outlines what makes an article appropriate to exist for a contestant on the contestant template discussion page? It would be helpful to everyone.

Well, I don't know which article specifically should next be targeted for clean-up purposes. However, I agree with your stance that it should be done one by one so as to avoid chaos.

Best wishes and kind regards, Yeldarb68 ( talk) 18:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Response to your response 2

I cannot nominate Todd Herzog's article for deletion, as you have clearly liaised to me that there was at some point in time a 'consensus' that winners should automatically have an article just for being winners. And I can't nominate Rupert either, because "winner" has not been clearly defined. Now, to keep in line with wikipedia's policies, the proper thing to do when there is disagreement on the criteria for having an article is discussion. Which is why I have requested that you state on the contestants template discussion page the current criteria for why a contestant can or cannot have their own article. Thus, there may be discussion the very criteria that I am contending. I will not break wikipedia's rules. So in regard to this issue, I am pushing for discussion. That is the proper way in line with wikipedia's guidelines. One does not nominate an article for deletion in defiance of the status-quo criteria. That is against the rules, as you probably know.

Yeldarb68 ( talk) 18:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Well, this is [User:Whippletheduck|Whippletheduck]] ( talk • contribs) 03:22, 11 September 2008 (UTC) and I want you to know that I already archived the entire SHII ANN page a few weeks ago. Maybe I will wait a few month's before I put it right back up, with of course my own spin on Shii Ann. Or maybe I will wait a few days. Who knows? But I will put it back up eventually..... reply

---

RE: "my own spin on Shii Ann"

- Do you STILL not understand that wikipedia articles are not a place for your "own spin"? It's supposed to be objective. Yeldarb68 ( talk) 20:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

To my knowledge, we've always listed managers, valets and enforcers. Your edit summary didn't really give me much of an explanation. Gavyn Sykes ( talk) 23:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hmm, I don't recall that. When was this. If I can have the month/year this was agreed on, I may be to find it in the WT:PW archives. Gavyn Sykes ( talk) 00:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC) reply

It seemed like something was missing (perhaps it was deleted before - I haven't had the time to check) between "promoted these Games" and "invested heavily" so I added what I was able to glean from the source. If you disagree with this suggest something else. I am editing for fluency and proper grammar. Nirvana888 ( talk) 04:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Why not include Homer's musical talent? That's pretty much the only real talent he has and just for that is noteworthy. Homer has displayed over and over he is musically inclined (I even included the episodes as reference), so please reconsider putting that back in.

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Are we not able to use snpp.com for cultural references? Just respond here...I'll watch it. Ctjf83 Talk 20:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks bud! I'll be on later...probably Ctjf83 Talk 23:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks for fixing the priority at Talk:1968 Olympics Black Power salute. I realised afterwards what i'd done and went back to change it but you'd beaten me to it. Basement12 (T. C) 22:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Hello. I am currently working on List of Carnivàle awards and nominations to get it to FL, and it seems you have done some work in related areas for other shows. Since the number of FLs for such lists is increasing, do you think it's time to create {{ Infobox TV Show Awards}} similar to {{ Infobox Musician Awards}}? – sgeureka ^{t• c} 13:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XXIV — August 31, 2008

Project Updates Featured news SummerSlam (2003) (link) has been elevated to Featured Article status. The Great American Bash (2005) (link) is a current Featured Article candidate. December to Dismember (2006) (link) was under Featured Article review, the result was to keep it as a Featured Article. List of celebrities involved at WrestleMania (link) is a current Featured List candidate. IWGP Tag Team Championship (link) has been demoted from Featured List status. Good article news Bad Blood (2003), Bad Blood (2004), Chyna, Lockdown (2008) (link), No Mercy (2005), Sacrifice (2008), SummerSlam (1992), Survivor Series (1993), and WrestleMania (1985) are currently Good article candidates. Armageddon (2006) (link), Juggernaut (wrestler) (link), and The Great American Bash (2005) (link) have passed their Good Article nominations. Other project news Matt Sydal (link), Judgment Day (2005) (link), and Unforgiven (2005) (link) are currently under Peer Review. Hell in a Cell has been proposed to be merged into Professional wrestling match types, the discussion can be found here. The Future class rating has been incorporated into the project's assessment. It's intended use is for pay-per-views articles or video games that have not occurred or have been released, respectively. A fact from List of celebrities at WrestleMania was featured on the Main Page in the Did you know? column on August 28. This Month in Wrestling History August 17, 1997 - Shane Douglas defeated Sabu and Terry Funk in a triangle match for the ECW Heavyweight title. August 19, 2001 - The Rock defeated Booker T to win the WCW Championship. August 21, 1979 - Dusty Rhodes defeated Harley Race for the NWA Heavyweight Wrestling title. August 22, 2000 - Lita defeated Stephanie MaMahon-Helmsley for the WWF Women's Championship. August 27, 1994 - "Eastern Championship Wrestling" was renamed " Extreme Championship Wrestling". August 31, 1997 - Kensuke Sasaki defeated Shinya Hashimoto for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Professional Wrestling Article Stats We have now reached our goal of getting the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 596. It still would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 2 5 7 FL 1 7 14 22 GA 5 22 57 84 B 1 16 67 201 285 C 1 11 72 84 Start 2 49 204 1768 2023 Stub 1 22 574 597 List 2 21 574 597 Future 0 0 1 11 12 Assessed 3 75 357 3276 3711 Total 3 75 356 3276 3711

Member News Based on the members list, there are currently 420 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: For the month of August: 10 - TNA presents Hard Justice 12 - NickSentowski's birthday 16 - Lakers244805's birthday 17 - iMatthew's birthday; WWE presents SummerSlam 18 - Crash Underride's and Wrestlinglover's birthdays 19 - Darren Jowalsen's birthday 22 - HeartBurn Kid's birthday Recent News At SummerSlam, Beth Phoenix and Santino Marella defeated Mickie James and Kofi Kingston to win the WWE Women's and Intercontinental Championships, respectively. TNA Wrestling released Gail Kim from her contract on August 20. It was announced on the August 25 television episode of Raw that John Cena had suffered a herniated disc in his neck. Cena received successful surgery the following day, and will be inactive for 2-4 months. Killer Kowalski passed away on August 30 after suffering a heart attack two weeks prior. Collaboration of the Week The article collaborations for August 31 through September 13 are Sting (wrestler) and Killer Kowalski. Please help to improve these articles to match the quality of an ideal Wikipedia professional wrestling related article. The next articles for collaboration will be chosen on September 14. Cast your vote to select the collaboration for next week! — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Deletion Debates Articles for Deletion Current: Smackdown vs Raw 2009. Kept: La Familia (professional wrestling) and Yogeshwar Dutt. Redirected/Merged: Intercontinental Champion. Deleted: Glamarella, National Wrestling Coalition, and Robert Johnston (English Professional Wrestler). Images for Deletion Current: Image:Cheerleadermelissa5yw.jpg From the Editors Contributors to this Issue: Altenhofen ( talk · contribs) IMatthew ( talk · contribs) NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) SRX ( talk · contribs) Wrestlinglover ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Matthew said he'd be able to take over full time in about three weeks from 22 August - he's on holiday. I don't think there needs to be any pageantry associated with the hand-over - just change the FLC instructions as of, say, 12 Sept to remove me and include Matthew. I'm happy to keep going until we get his 100% say-so... The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Well I'm happy to do that but I think it's probably best that Matthew takes the role as soon as he can - my role won't change until I go away other than the fact that I won't close FLCs. I'll still be offering my "generous" comments to each list! The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC) reply

And I've pinged you back. The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC) reply

I'm an utter IRC-noob but I'll try...I'm on Wikipedia-en channel now... The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC) reply

Just seen your message. I think Matthew can handle the whole shebang on his own. There's not much trade there, to be honest, and he handles it very well indeed. -- Dweller ( talk) 10:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Thank so much for your help with this article, especially the Production info. Cheers, Cirt ( talk) 02:21, 2 September 2008 (UTC) reply

As virtually the entire article is unsourced, and the article is a WP:BLP, it should be trimmed down to only the sourced info and further any addition of unsourced info is indeed a problem. Cirt ( talk) 02:30, 2 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Fair enough, but what about information that anyone whom watched SURVIVOR can access via having watched the show? There is plenty of information available that will dispute or confirm much of what was said directly on the show; and there are plenty of interviews that Survivors make that are available only when the show was aired and was never really 'online'? I am considering a seperate section called "ACCLAIMS AND CRITICISMS" where people will be able to post directly stuff that was seen in favor or against her. The fact that it has gotten to this point is rather laughable a —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whippletheduck ( talk • contribs) 07:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC) reply

After Garry left em a message I actually checked the second's nomination history before nominating it, but I seriously did not see your name in more than ~10 of the edits. Anyways I'll do as you wish. Nergaal ( talk) 03:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Ah, and one more thing: I was planing to working on these three topics but I don't think I will be able to enjoy working on them since Garry will keep pissing on my talkpage. Keep an eye on the season ones ones once the Good Topics are implemented:

1. Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/The Simpsons (season 4)
2. Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/The Simpsons (season 1)
3. Wikipedia:Featured topic candidates/The Simpsons episodes

Nergaal ( talk) 03:44, 3 September 2008 (UTC) reply

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Template:Simpsonsportalepisode date has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Cirt ( talk) 01:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Sorry, but I don't have time for it right now. Perhaps some time at the end of September. -- Maitch ( talk) 08:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Well, I really don't feel comfortable writing about philosophy, since I know very little of it. I would prefer if we could find someone else. If we can't do that I could take a stab at it, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone would remove everything I write. It can't be before the end of September anyway. -- Maitch ( talk) 15:50, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

It looks quite good, but I have a few comments.

• Quite a few sentences starts with "Homer". I can at least find one place where two sentences in a row starts with "Homer". Could you find a way to reduce this?
• You should drop "The Simpsons has been recommended for use in the teaching of sociology to modern-day college students." in the cultural influence section when the philosophy stuff is moved to the analysis section. It is more about The Simpsons as a show, rather than about Homer specifically.
• In the lead it says "His catchphrase, the annoyed grunt "D'oh!", has been included in the Oxford English Dictionary since 2001.", but later it says "D'oh! was first added to the The New Oxford Dictionary of English in 1998". I think we should mention the year it was first added to a dictionary in the lead.
• I would like it if we mention that Homer's extended family was revealed in The Simpsons Uncensored Family Album.

Other than that I can't think of anything. The philosophy book has some good stuff in it, which should be included. I'm not sure if Leaving Springfield can add anything new. -- Maitch ( talk) 16:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Pop on IRC for a minute? Gary King ( talk) 15:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Re [2]: If it's not a quote, then how come The Simpsons season 1 DVD commentary for the episode "Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" is cited as a reference? According to the quotation, it's either a literal quote or an indirect quote. Either way, it's meta-commentary by the creator and we cannot legitimately pass it off as canon based on that source. user: Everyme 00:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I know quite well that and how things are to be sourced. The point is that this source is insufficient to support the current statement. It needs to be converted into a simple formulation, truly reflecting what exactly the source says. If it's not a quote, it needs to be explained what else it is. "DVD commentary" pretty much sounds like a quote from the DVD audio commentary track. If you know the source, please clarify. Otherwise, the current caption must be removed as original research. user: Everyme 01:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Do you know the source? Is it or is it not a quote from the DVD commentary? If so, it should be in quotmarks, if not, it should be explained in the prose what the nature of the source statement is, who said it in what context etcpp. to allow readers to evaluate it for themselves. It's original research to label it as something else than meta-commentary by the creators ("1.5. source") and to attribute it the legitimacy and weight of either a primary source or a secondary source. Consider the current statement in the article (which is unsuited for a caption anyway and should be incorporated into the prose): "Lisa's pageant costume ran into trouble with the censors, so it was later added that she was wearing a flesh tone body suit." — Like I said, it's not a simple formulation since it omits the source from the wording and passes off as fact a piece of meta-commentary from a DVD. It needs to be formulated along the lines of "According to a statement by Person X on the DVD commentary of the episode, ..." user: Everyme 01:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

That's not the point. The source simply does not support the current wording. user: Everyme 02:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

[3] Good stuff, thanks. user: Everyme 06:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

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Wanted to say congratulations for helping to get The Simpsons Ride up to GA status. Well done! -- McDoobAU93 ( talk) 17:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I don't see anything that is "missing", so to speak. It's an interesting structure, might not be one that I would use but I don't do any fictional, cartoon, TV characters. I would change "biography". It doesn't really meet WP:MOSTV, plus it leaves it open to people coming in and adding tons of IU info since biographies are typically comprehensive.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

The "Personality" info is really "Characterization", which generally goes with character development information. It seems odd to have characterization info with the plot information, when you have all the other creation things in another section. It also seems weird that the biography info looks more like characterization info. You're talking about characteristics of Homer (his age, the choice of job for the character [which would be better in the "Character development" subsection]) What is plot is presented in a tone that suggests it really happened. It should be clearly stated, "In episode X" or "In season Y", it is revealed that Homer did..." Also, analysis generally goes with the character's reception, as how people receive the character plays into how they are going to analyze his presence on a show. I would also drop the "gender" from the infobox. Unless it was controversial (like a male looking character that was really female), his gender is obvious from the picture above where it is listed.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I don't know where you're reading it from, but it shouldn't be written in an in-universe tone, which it currently is. I would say, "In a flashback, it is revealed". When you say something like, "In the mid-1960s, while Homer was six years old, Mona went into hiding following a run-in with the law." - I assume you mean literally, because you already stated that the show runs in the current year. It needs to be better clarified that you are referring to something revealed in a show, and not something that actually happened. As for renaming the section, I think particular things belong in other sections. I think the way you just restructure works better. You could probably expand the "Role in show" section.

Yeah, I guess in all fairness I nominated a bit prematurely. In my other two ( The Telltale Head, Homer's Odyssey) I did do that, but I guess I nominated a bit quickly. I'll renominate soon, with the article built like the other two. Cheers.-- LAA Fan 03:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Hey, I noticed that the plots are extremely brief so I went on to bulk them up. Is it ok what i have been adding for the first ~4 episodes? Nergaal ( talk) 04:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC) reply

It is not a problem as long as you are ok with the conom. Nergaal ( talk) 03:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Aren't those reigns unofficial? If so, I would think they shouldn't even be listed. Gavyn Sykes ( talk) 00:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Fair point. Looks like another editor already removed them, but oh well. Gavyn Sykes ( talk) 00:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I was wondering why didn't you submit 2008 Summer Olympics medal table for FLC already? Nergaal ( talk) 01:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC) reply

You claim that an episode article must have a date to be an article; that doesn't explain why Treehouse of Horror XIX is its own article. "The Good, the Sad, and the Drugly" and "Four Great Women and a Manicure" both have vague airdates (early 2009), while ToHXIX doesn't. Unless I'm assuming the reason ToHXIX has a page is because it has significant amount of information? Please clarify for me. A ^{( Reply!, Contribs)} 00:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC) reply

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As your one of the FLC directors can you take a look at the Pink Floyd discography. -- Be Black Hole Sun ( talk) 14:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I was just browsing through the DYK suggestions page, and noticed you had written an article on Homer Groening. But now it's been deleted! I actually would have liked to read that. :) Zagalejo ^^^ 19:29, 9 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Well, I think the Homer Simpson connection is a respectable claim to notabilty. Plus, you must have been able to scrounge up at least a couple of paragraphs worth of information to make the article eligible for DYK. I would have argued to keep it. :)

Anyway, I'll take a look at the Homer Simpson article and tell you what I think. Zagalejo ^^^ 21:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I'll let you know if I run into any additional information. I think the article is pretty interesting. I learned a lot of stuff I didn't know before. :) It could use some copyediting in places, but it's not bad, overall. Zagalejo ^^^ 19:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I don't have either, unfortunately. The only heavily analytical Simpsons book I own is Planet Simpson. Zagalejo ^^^ 19:46, 10 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Hey Scorpion, could you revisit this and let me know where I stand please? Cheers. The Rambling Man ( talk) 08:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Can you do me a favour and cap your comments so they don't put anyone else off from reviewing the list? Cheers! The Rambling Man ( talk) 06:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi,

I was wondering why you deleted 'Demonstration sports have not been allowed in the Olympics since 1992, so any inclusion of netball as such will likely require permission from the IOC' from this article? Although slightly erroneous (I beleive demonstration sports were removed in from the '96 games) I would argue that this is a valid point which warrents inclusion. Currently the article does not explain that demonstration sports are disallowed. RaseaC ( talk) 18:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks for your reply. I've removed the speculation, sourced the statement and elaborated on the 'disallowed' bit. All is well. RaseaC ( talk) 18:39, 10 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Thanks for uploading Image:Fat Tony and Michael.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

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Hi Scorpion. Hope you're well. Are you now back on "full-time" FLC director duty after the various commitments and holidays you had? Matthew is unable to take over from me for another week but I need to start winding down my contributions to the process a little so I was hoping you could confirm that it wouldn't be a major problem. All the best. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC) reply

To be honest, who knows how I'll feel when (if?) I return. I certainly wouldn't expect to waltz back in and "own" the place. So, we'll have to play it by ear. So, if you're good with taking over for the interim, that'd be great for me, very much appreciated. The Rambling Man ( talk) 16:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC) reply

FoxFlash has released the official info, do you want add it? Or me? click here A ^{( Reply!, Contribs!)} 00:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC) reply

When you get a chance, you wanna update the proj box that appears on the page under participants. Ctjf83 Talk 16:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I copy edited it just for you! I'll have to work on it later, to many edit conflicts. In the opening paragraph it say "he has had a number of remarkable experiences" perhaps a few examples in the lead also? Also, "the only time a Simpsons character has been in the real world in the series", what about when Bart and Lisa fall into the pot of soup on Regis and Kathy Lee? Also, where is a source that he is in LA? What happened to the picture of Castellaneta? Ctjf83 Talk 03:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Don't do it, as it's not needed. I'm in reference to your edit here: Talk:List_of_World_Wrestling_Entertainment_employees#Carlito_.26_Primo_Col.C3.B3n. If you are that bugged about unsourced things, just ask the person what his source is. RobJ1981 ( talk) 18:37, 13 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I must say "no" to any more new copyediting for a while. I'm deep into a couple of research/writing projects; I'm trying to do at least one peer review a week, and I've promised another editor that I'd copyedit his/her long, complicated article. You might be able to find someone through the volunteer list at WP:PRV. Finetooth ( talk) 02:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

A fun read. I left some comments on the talk page. Hope this helps a bit. Giggy ( talk) 03:40, 14 September 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XXV — September 14, 2008

Project Updates Featured news The Great American Bash (2005) (link) and No Mercy (2005) (link) are current Featured Article candidates. List of celebrities involved at WrestleMania (link) has been elevated to Featured List status. Good article news Chyna, No Mercy (2007), Rhonda Sing, Sacrifice (2008), Survivor Series (1993), WrestleMania (1985), and WrestleMania XXIV are currently Good article candidates. No Mercy (2005) (link), Bad Blood (2003) (link), Bad Blood (2004) (link), Lockdown (2008) (link), and SummerSlam (1992) (link) have been elevated to Good article status. Other project news Judgment Day (2005) (link), Lockdown (2008) (link), and Shawn Michaels (link) are currently under Peer Review. Hell in a Cell has been proposed to be merged into Professional wrestling match types, the discussion can be found here; and it has been proposed to merge Road agent (professional wrestling) into List of professional wrestling terms. The discussion can be found here. Facts from Antonio Pugliese and Millennium Wrestling Federation were featured on the Main Page in the Did You Know? column on September 4. This Month in Wrestling History September 1, 1992 - Ric Flair defeated Randy Savage for the WWF Heavyweight Championship. September 2, 2002 - Eric Bischoff created the World Heavyweight Championship and awarded it to Triple H. September 6, 2000 - Rob Conway defeated Nick Dinsmore for the Ohio Valley Heavyweight Championship. September 9, 1993 - Shane Douglas won the ECW Heavyweight title by forfeit from Tito Santana. September 10, 1997 - Fritz Von Erich died of cancer at age 68. September 12, 1991 - Chris Von Erich died in a suicide shooting at 21. September 12, 1999 - Sting defeated Hulk Hogan to win the WCW Heavyweight Championship. September 14, 1999 - Vince McMahon defeated Triple H for the WWF Heavyweight title. Professional Wrestling Article Stats We have now reached our goal of getting the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 586. It still would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 2 5 7 FL 1 12 10 23 GA 5 24 59 88 B 1 17 65 201 284 C 1 14 76 91 Start 2 50 213 1767 2032 Stub 1 22 564 587 List 2 23 575 600 Future 2 16 18 Assessed 3 77 377 3273 3730 Total 3 77 377 3273 3731

Member News Based on the members list, there are currently 198 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: For the month of September: 2 - TJ Spyke's birthday 8 - Perry8331's birthday; WWE presents Unforgiven 12 - Altenhofen's birthday 14 - TNA presents No Surrender 15 - Gavyn Sykes's birthday 16 - Bmg916's birthdays 21 - BionicWilliam's and Rossyboy10's birthdays 30 - LBMixPro's birthday Recent News Mick Foley's WWE contract expired on September 1, and he has signed a short-term deal with TNA. At Unforgiven: Matt Hardy won the ECW Championship in a Championship scramble match. Chris Jericho won the World Heavyweight Championship, in a Championship scramble match also. Afa Anoa'i, Jr. made his debut as "Manu". Nathan Jones was injured in Thailand, after he was hit by a truck. Jones had recently signed a deal with TNA, but will now be out for at least 3 months. Collaboration of the Week The Collaboration of the Week has recently been revamped, and we will now have 6 collaborations at a time. The current collaborations will stand until they reach a certain goal, e.g. Good article status. Wrestling Legend: Kamala (wrestler) Current wrestler: Samoa Joe Tag team or stable: Dudley Boyz Stub article: Gino Brito Pay-per-view: WrestleMania 23 List: List of professional wrestling terms Cast your vote to select the collaboration for next week! — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Deletion Debates Articles for Deletion Current: List of WWE Intercontinental Championship tournaments, Total Combat Wrestling, and Wrestlemania win loss records. Kept: Redirected/Merged: Intercontinental Champion Deleted: Beer Money Inc (professional wrestling) and Smackdown vs Raw 2009 Roster. Images for Deletion Current: Deleted: Image:Cheerleadermelissa5yw.jpg, Image:Spike_Piledriver1.gif, and Image:Royal_Butterfly5.gif From the Editors Contributors to this Issue: IMatthew ( talk · contribs) NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) SRX ( talk · contribs) Wrestlinglover ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Not sure if you followed Fasach's behaviour on the Calgary Flames article, but I can say you are pretty much wasting your time trying to discuss the images with him. He's not going to listen to you, he's not going to justify his actions, and I would not be surprised if he tries to throw the images up at IfD when he doesn't get his way. I'd say you've done more than enough to justify the images. He simply won't be appeased as he believes his opinion is policy. Reso lute 15:07, 15 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Scorpion, I would encourage you to mind your conduct when interacting with your fellow editors, most especially in cases where another editor makes a change that you do not agree with, or reverts one of your edits because he or she does not agree with it. Blocks have already been issued in response to poor conduct on Krusty the Clown (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and edits in the near future will be subject to increased scrutiny: discussion and dispute resolution are the appropriate responses to disagreements over editorial conduct—whereas revert warring is not.

Be mindful of holding a "trigger happy" approach to reverting others' edits, and of the appropriate responses to editorial and content disagreements on the encyclopedia. Please consider this a final caution regarding the standards of conduct expected of Wikipedia editors.

Regards, Anthøny ✉ 22:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Sounds good to me. Zagalejo ^^^ 23:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an administrator I will endeavor to maintain the trust you have placed in me. I am honored by your trust and your support. Thank you for your kind words during my RfA and even for saying you would have been my nominator I am honored by that. Thank you, Cirt ( talk) 02:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I'll take a look. If there's anything I can't immediately fix, I'll post a note on the article's talk page. Zagalejo ^^^ 18:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC) reply

It's a DVD comprising a series of interviews with the staff, primarily about the movie, conducted and produced and distributed by The Sun. Although its The Sun, it is reliable as its basically just Groening and Silverman talking. Gran ² 21:10, 17 September 2008 (UTC) reply

To be honest, I don't think that's substantially different than what we have now. Even if you put the episode name in parentheses, you'd still need to explicitly state, in the body of the text, that those details are held to be true only in certain episodes. (Although admittedly, it is difficult to do that without weighing down the prose with repetitive expressions. I put together a few drafts late last night, but wasn't satisfied with any of them.)

In truth, I don't really see the need to go into so much detail about Homer's backstory in the first place. First because most of it has been totally contradicted, and second because we don't attempt to chronicle Homer's wacky adventures that occurred in the fictional "present", like the trip to outer space or the climbing of the Murderhorn. If it were up to me, all I'd say about Homer's past would be the following:

"Past episodes have provided details about Homer's youth and young adulthood, though the series does not maintain perfect continuity. In earlier episodes, it was established that Homer fell in love with Marge while they were high schoolers in the 1970s, and that he married her a few years later when she was pregnant with Bart. However, the recent episode "That 90's Show" asserts that Homer and Marge lived together without children in the 1990s."

Maybe we could also throw in something about his mother somewhere. At the beginning of the section, we could say that both of Homer's parents are living, but that his mother went into hiding when he was a child. Zagalejo ^^^ 00:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC) reply

I think you should focus a little more back on being an FL director as there are articles deserving a promotion to FL. -- K. Annoyomous 24 _[c] 04:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Sorry if I hastened into this. I did not mean to distract editors. The only reason I did it it was because I saw that there is a season 10 drive which has few GAs already. I thought that the two I added are significantly closer to completion and I thought users might want to focus on those instead of the 10 one. Nergaal ( talk) 00:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Is even this notable for mention? link A ^{( Reply!, Contribs!)} 01:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC) reply

It's not the MOS--references can be done pretty much any way you'd like, as long as it's somewhat sensible. That template isn't used much, but I think it is useful in articles like this one where there are only a few book references, so it doesn't make as much sense to separate out the books into a separate section (at least in my view, since they're not qualitatively different, and make up only a small portion of the references overall). You're free to change it back, but I think it makes the references perhaps a little bit easier to use, since you're not jumping between sections? Calliopejen1 ( talk) 18:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Well you'd better check with Matthew. Last time we spoke he had trouble with his web access. It was a couple of weeks ago so perhaps it's better now. The Rambling Man ( talk) 18:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Is the image good like that or is there something else you want me to edit? -- TheLeft orium 16:20, 22 September 2008 (UTC) reply

Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (154/3/2). I appreciate the community's trust in me, and I will do my best to be sure it won't regret handing me the mop. I am honored by your trust and your support. Again, thank you. – Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 18:49, 27 September 2008 (UTC) reply

The WikiProject Professional wrestling newsletter Issue XXVI — September 28, 2008

Recent Project News Featured news The Great American Bash (2005) (link) was promoted to Featured Article status. No Mercy (2005) (link) is a current Featured Article candidate. Good article news Antonio Pugliese, Hornswoggle, No Mercy (2007), Rhonda Sing, Sacrifice (2008), WrestleMania IX, and WrestleMania XXIV are currently Good article candidates. Chyna (link), Survivor Series (1993) (link), and WrestleMania (1985) (link) have been elevated to Good Article status. Other project news Armageddon (2006) (link), Bad Blood (2003) (link), Bad Blood (2004) (link), Hard Justice (2008) (link), List of WWE pay-per-view events (link), Lockdown (2008) (link), and No Way Out (2004) (link) are currently under Peer Review. Hell in a Cell has been proposed to be merged into Professional wrestling match types, the discussion can be found here; and it has been proposed to merge Road agent (professional wrestling) into List of professional wrestling terms. The discussion can be found here. Likewise it has been proposed to merge McMahon (documentary) to Vince McMahon, that discussion can be found here. A fact from WrestleMania IX was listed on the Main Page in the Did You Know? colum on September 15. This Fortnight in Wrestling History September 15, 1998 - Jacquelyn defeated Sable for the vacant WWF Women's Championship. September 17, 1981 - Ric Flair defeated Dusty Rhodes for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. September 17, 2000 - Booker T defeated Kevin Nash for the WCW Heavyweight Championship September 17, 2003 - Brock Lesnar defeated Kurt Angle for the WWE Championship. September 19, 1999 - Mike Awesome defeated Taz and Masato Tanaka for the ECW World Heavyweight Championship. September 21, 2003 - Goldberg defeated Triple H for the World Heavyweight Championship. September 22, 1967 - Stanislaus Zbyszko died at age 88. September 23, 2001 - Kurt Angle defeated Steve Austin to win the WWF Championship. September 24, 1992 - Roy Heffernan died of a heart attack at age 67. September 25, 2000 - Vince Russo defeated Booker T for the WCW Heavyweight Championship. September 25, 2000 - Raw Is War debuts on TNN. Professional Wrestling Article Stats We have now reached our goal of getting the number of Stub-Class articles below 600. The current count is 586. It still would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help expand and/or source an article or two. A list has been placed on the stub article subpage of stub articles of well-known wrestlers that should be fairly easy to improve. Professional wrestling articles Importance Top High Mid Low Total Quality FA 3 5 8 FL 1 12 10 23 GA 6 25 60 91 B 1 16 64 203 284 C 1 14 84 99 Start 2 50 214 1766 2032 Stub 1 21 564 586 List 2 23 576 601 Future 2 17 19 Assessed 3 77 378 3285 3743 Unassessed 1 1 Total 3 77 378 3286 3744

Member Updates Based on the members list, there are currently 198 members participating in WikiProject Professional wrestling. On the calendar: For the month of September: 2 - TJ Spyke's birthday 8 - Perry8331's birthday; WWE presents Unforgiven 12 - Altenhofen's birthday 14 - TNA presents No Surrender 15 - Gavyn Sykes's birthday 16 - Bmg916's birthdays 21 - BionicWilliam's and Rossyboy10's birthdays 30 - LBMixPro's birthday Recent Wrestling News At No Surrender, Sheik Abdul Bashir won the TNA X Division Championship in a 3-way dance by defeating Petey Williams and Consequences Creed. On September 14, Shelly Martinez was released from her contract by TNA. Sheamus won the FCW Florida Heavyweight Championship on September 18, beating Jack Swagger. On September 21, at the SmackDown taping, Primo Colón and Carlito won the WWE Tag Team Championship, defeating reigning champions Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder. Collaboration The Collaboration has recently been revamped, and we will now have 6 collaborations at a time. The current collaborations will stand until they reach a certain goal, e.g. Good article status. Wrestling Legend: Kamala (wrestler) Current wrestler: Samoa Joe Tag team or stable: Dudley Boyz Stub article: Gino Brito Pay-per-view: WrestleMania 23 List: List of professional wrestling terms Cast your vote to select the next collaborations — Nominate an article that could be greatly improved! Recent Deletion Debates Articles for Deletion Current: Christopher Rombola and Ranjin Singh (Dave Kapoor) Kept: Redirected/Merged: List of WWE Intercontinental Championship tournaments. Deleted: Total Combat Wrestling and Wrestlemania win loss records. Images for Deletion Current: Deleted: Image:Bobby roode ncw.jpg, Image:Lance storm ncw.jpg, and Image:Sly nca 2002.jpg. Contributors to this Issue IMatthew ( talk · contribs) NiciVampireHeart ( talk · contribs) SRX ( talk · contribs) ThinkBlue ( talk · contribs) Wrestlinglover ( talk · contribs) Discussion • Suggestions • Feedback

Hi, I am wondering if you can close this FLC for me as a reviewer suggested me to bring the article to peer review. Thanks— Chris! _{c t} 00:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC) reply