William G. Allen was nominated as a History good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (July 21, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:William G. Allen/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: HaEr48 ( talk · contribs) 03:23, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Will take this review. HaEr48 ( talk) 03:23, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

For the most part, it is well written, complies with the MoS, and referenced (with some exceptions noted below). It addresses the main aspects of the subject's life (although I believe some parts need more detail, see below). I don't see any copyvio, neutrality or WP:OR problem. There is a long quotation in #Exile in England, put presumably it is no longer in copyright so not a copyvio. Article is stable. The only image used has an appropriate copyright tag. I believe it has potential to be GA. See my specific feedback below:

• Can we add some on his education before Oneida? The first page of the Blackett paper seems to have some material. Done. Plus added place of birth, where raised (because of where he went to school) here. CH
• Is it possible to know what subject/courses he took at Oneida? It looks like that is done. Comment by CH
• "In Boston, Allen lectured on racial equality, abolitionism, and argued for "amalgamation",..."
  • For completeness, is it possible to know if there's any institution/building where these lectures are held? ***One talk, on "the condition and prospects of Colored People," was in Tremont Hall, according to The Liberator, August 11, 1848 ( link only for subscribers: https://www.accessible.com/accessible/print?AADocList=3&AADocStyle=&AAStyleFile=&AABeanName=toc1&AANextPage=/printFullDocFromXML.jsp&AACheck=3.25.3.1.1). As of this moment it's not added.
    • Another was in Tremont chapel -Liberatir, August 11, 1848, p. 3
    • August 27, 1850, Danvers, Massachusetts: "A very able and interesting lecture was delivered last Tuesday evening, in the vestry of the Old South Church in Danvers," Liberator, aug 30
  • Can we expand more on Allen's thoughts and points of views (as we know it) from these lectures? I think it would be great for completeness, given that this is a biography of an intellectual. Working on this DE
• Is it possible to expand a few more sentences to explain Allen's thoughts and points of views in these lectures
• (In 1852 he described himself as Professor of Greek and German languages, Rhetoric and Belles Letters [sic].[12]) . Suggest removing brackets as it reads just fine without it. Should be "lettres". Turns out the misspelling was the newspaper's, not Allen's. Corrected.
• Anything notable happened at this teaching job in NYCC? (other than reviewing Uncle Tom's Cabin and marrying Mary) so far as known, no
• A group within the mob, hoping to calm anger, negotiated with Allen, King, and the Porters, and King ultimately left the village, promising to visit Allen the following day in Syracuse. I think this is too long to be one sentence. Suggest splitting as two sentences between "the Porters" and "King" to avoid the double "and"s Done CH
• (Porter lost his teaching job…) Remove the brackets? It's parenthetical, but I moved it to the end.
• "while visiting the Porters, a mob formed around the house".. This sounds like it's the mob who was visiting. How about "While King and Allen visited the Porters" (from the following passage, it seems like both were present. Was Mary present too?) fixed
• Where did the King family live? It will help to clarify, when I read "Allen traveled by sleigh to Syracuse", is it because the King family lived there? They lived in Fulton. I thought "while visiting" implied that.
• As context, I suggest adding one or two sentence about the state and stigma of interracial marriage at the time. Probably for someone familiar with US history it would be obvious, but for a broader audience this is a needed context for the "relationship with Mary King" section. For example, these sentence "Her brothers, of whom there were many, and Mary's stepmother were bitterly opposed" or " while visiting the Porters, a mob formed around the house, seeking to kill Allen." assumes that the readers already know the reason of the opposition I added a paragraph - Carole, can you add sources to or improve on it? I can't find an example before 1884. DE
• The sentence that ends with "four children with Mary." is tagged as [better source needed] The source itself is for members only. Plus, I think the source's description (simply "1871 Census England") needs to be improved to comply with Wikipedia:Citing sources
• William died at St Mary's Hospital in London on May 1, 1888. His death certificate gives his occupation as teacher of languages, and lists nephritis and enlarged prostate as the causes of death, the first no doubt a consequence of the second.
  • Reference?
  • Suggest removing "no doubt", it sounds a bit un-encyclopedic. (alternatively, reword the last portion of the sentence.) Done DE
• "There is no known photograph or portrait of Allen": Either add reference, or remove. Done DE
• Can we also add the writing and the reception to his autobiographical account? It is mentioned briefly in the lead section ("wrote an autobiographical account including of his marriage, which sold well,") IMO, it needs to be explained in more detail in the article body too. Needs to be done DE

-- HaEr48 ( talk) 13:06, 10 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• I'm working on this. deisenbe ( talk) 10:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply

  @ Deisenbe: any update? HaEr48 ( talk) 03:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC) reply

  • Look at the history. I'm nowhere near done. I just bought a car which set me back some.

Deisenbe, I would be happy to help if you like. It would be a shame for the GA to fail due to the length of time in onhold status. (I think it's generally considered to be a max of seven days, but it's also worked out between the nominee and the reviewer.) It's kind of the same vein as the James Bradley, Abolitionism, etc. articles, so I would be happy to help. Just let me know.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 22:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC) reply

The present crisis has affected my productivity so I'd like to ask for some extra time - say a month. But I can use all the help I can get. deisenbe ( talk) 02:52, 19 April 2020 (UTC) reply

I can understand your difficulty, Deisenbe, and I'm happy to let the review be open for another month - that is until 19 May. Stay safe and good luck. HaEr48 ( talk) 03:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Great solution! And, I am happy to pick away at it a bit in the meantime, Deisenbe.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 03:52, 19 April 2020 (UTC) reply

For simplicity I am marking comments or replies in bold. All the bold is by me. deisenbe ( talk) 10:49, 21 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Thanks, that helps. I wasn't sure where to start. I will tackle one or two items tonight.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 03:37, 22 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Two done. I put my comment in bold, too. And, added CH at the end. There was one I noticed was done and marked that one done. I tried looking for info about where he gave lecturers and found that he did a bit in the US, and then planned to do lectures when he arrived in London, and gave a lecture in Belfast. I thought it would be easier to find this info.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 04:47, 22 April 2020 (UTC) reply

• Your request that I say something about Allen's "thoughts and points of view" has (a bit to my surprise) turned into a whole new section on his thought, presenting him as an intellectual. The article has more than doubled in size and as you'll see I'm still working on it. Please don't comment on the "thought" section yet. deisenbe ( talk) 16:12, 12 May 2020 (UTC) reply

@ Deisenbe: nice work finding new materials! It seems the section is still under construction. Because such a long-running expansion isn't usually a scope of a GA review, I'm going to close it for now, and please feel free to renominate once the expansion is finished. HaEr48 ( talk) 23:59, 20 July 2020 (UTC) reply

Racism was clearly heavily involved but it's a bit worrying how the age difference isn't mentioned at all, ANYWHERE! It seems disingenuine to suppose that it had no role in the controversy. Allen was 31 at the time and Mary was only beginning her term at the college. Can we find a way to include this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A420:2B:8FD1:6955:7000:D4CC:4DD0 ( talk) 13:52, 8 January 2023 (UTC) reply