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I've lived in Missouri all my 34 years, and I'm a big fan of canoeing, but I've never heard that the name means "canoe". Anyone have a reference for that?
This is what the World Almanac and Book of Facts relates, and its what the official Missouri Tourism website relates, however it's not certain. The state was named for the river, which was named for the tribe, which received its name from the Algonquin Indians. Supposedly, "Missouri" means "people of the big canoes", not just "canoe". HOWEVER, I always heard, and found in other sources, that "Missouri" means "muddy waters" and came from another Indian group. Missouri Tourism says there is a mixup with what the name the Missouri Indians called the river means "muddy waters", but I'm not convinced. Like you, I've lived in Missouri all my life; but I've heard both, and that the exact origin was uncertain. Personally, I think the origin of "canoe" should be removed, at least for the time being. Rt66lt 03:05, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to see a simple picture of a Missouri license plate showing the "Show Me" slogan. I found one on the net; but I'd prefer for some Wikipedian to spend 10 minutes with a digital camera and get one that's free and clear to post into the public domain. (We could argue that a cropped portion of File:Showme.jpg would be fair use, but I'd prefer to just having one that no one can argue about). JimD 20:20, 2004 Aug 17 (UTC) (from California's Silicon Valley).
I've recently changed Template:US state to make the table more compact and have converted all state articles except Missouri's to use the template. Including the English measurements in addition to metric makes the table entries look awkward in the current version of the template. Kansas is the only other state article that includes English measurements. Anyone care if I convert Missouri to use the template and delete the English measurements? An alterative might be to create a different version of the template that accommodates both English and metric (which I'd be willing to do if anyone strongly cares about preserving the English measurements). -- Rick Block 15:52, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The link to the Southern region article says that Missouri may or may not be considered as a Southern state depending on the source. However, I know for a fact that many Missourians do not consider themselves as such (I myself am one).
Missouri's article should be rewritten to reflect this. It may be considered as a Midwestern State or a Southern state depending on the source, but this dichotomy shows that it cannot purely be classified as the article does now.
Another point, Missouri lays above the Mason-Dixon line.-- Doyel 20:34 (UTC) 26 Sept 2005
I'm a native Missourian, and have read a bit about its history. Certainly before the American Civil War, Missouri was considered Southern, however, it was sharply divided during that war, and had the highest casulty rate of any state. The Bootheel of the state in the far southeastern corner has a Southern culture. Saint Louis has a Northern or Eastern culture, and is too Catholic be called Southern; it is like New Orleans, which is another town with a culture that defies its geography. Kansas City has a Western culture, still being called a "cow town". The state lacks a rural African-American culture that tends to characterize the South. The farming areas of Missouri are quite like other Midwestern farming areas, while the wilderness areas of the Ozarks are culturally more like Appalachia. Missouri is usually called a 'Border State", which I think symbolizes its divided character. The regional accents are a good clue also; Saint Louis is distinctly midwestern, similar to Illinois and Ohio; the Ozarks have an Appalachian accent, while the Bootheel has more Southern accents. The Mason-Dixon line is not applicable here, in my opinion; you do see the Confederate flag quite often, but only rarely in public places, such as government buildings and outside of businesses, and then, only in certain areas of the state. -- Marcusscotus1 19:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to change the article to reflect the discussion. -- Doyel 19:05, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
My two cents worth - I think I've seen the state moving toward "Southern" in the years since I left (1978). I lived in Saint Joseph, in the northwest part of the state. My memory says that Southern accents were rare then. They don't seem so rare now. Attitudes seem more Southern, too. On the other hand, this may speak more of my memory, or how I've changed, than of reality.
One interesting thing I've read is that some people consider that the 'typical' accent for the US is 'Midwest standard'. I've read that the best candidates for this are from the Columbia, Missouri area. The argument is that early radio and television people often came from the University of Missouri's journalism school and this defined how the US, on the average, speaks. Think Walter Cronkite, a Missouri native, with what I would consider a neutral accent.
When I saw the attribution that Missouri was a Southern state, it didn't sit completely right with me. The state is too complex for such a simple description. I'm glad that it was changed. Catbar (Brian Rock) 18:31, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm from Missouri, born and raised. Missouri is not Southern; it's Midwestern. During the Civil War, the south end of Missouri was considered
Confederate, but the northern part was
Union. Parts of the
Underground Railroad are in Kansas City. (See Kelly's in Westport) Missouri is completely surrounded by
Midwestern states on three sides and the bottom border touches a few
Southern states. The northern part houses the largest cities, so it should be defined as Midwestern.
Also, Kansas City isn't a Cowtown anymore. It's a communication hub. Kansas Citians move fast. Southern people I've taken there have compared it to Chicago. Kansas Citians also talk fast and don't have much of an accent.
I've never seen a Confederate flag in Missouri.
Also, the username that keeps changing the article to say Southern reflects that the user is from Kansas.
Hobbes747 03:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Sorry about the "cowtown" statement. I haven't been to KC in years; back in the 1970s the town almost felt like it was in Colorado (except for the mountains). A friend who made a grand tour of many county courthouses in Missouri states that the Rebel Flag can been seen in public places in counties in the western part of the state, not sure where, but it was an area where Jesse James made notorious bank robberies. Also, the Confederate flag can be found even in St. Louis, typically by recent transplants, in working-class neighborhoods and Jefferson County, Missouri. There is a Confederate memorial in Forest Park in St. Louis; a Union memorial is also nearby; a statue of northern General Ulyses S. Grant, a St. Louis resident, is in front of St. Louis City Hall. St. Louis is called "The Gateway to the West". I recall a Southern flavor in New Madrid County, Missouri several years ago, including a "Little Dixie" theater. There are good arguments that Missouri is a Southern state, and even the Confederate memorial at Stone Mountain, Georgia explicitly states this; Southern Partisans will certainly claim Missouri as one of their own. I recall statements by the actor Tony Randall in an interview, and politician Jack Kemp in a speech refer to St. Louis as being in the "South". But, there were too many European and eastern immigrants to make Succession a majority popular opinion in 1861 and at least in Saint Louis we generally think of the state now as being Midwestern, and this seems to be the opinion in cities I've visited in the eastern, northern, and central parts of the state. The fact that there is sharp argment about the North/South orientation of state tells us immediately that its status is not clear. Let's stick with Border State. -- Marcusscotus1 17:42, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
No offense taken about Cowntown. Good points, btw. I would concur with Missouri being called a Border State.
The United_States_Census_Bureau defines Missouri as Midwestern. Check their page for verification. CNN defines it as Midwestern as well.
I'm totally shocked to learn that there are official Confederate flags in Missouri.
St. Louis is called the Gateway to the West because it was where the first parties left on the trails to the West. However, Kansas City and areas immediately surrounding Kansas City ( Independence, Missouri ) became the official starting points for the Santa Fe Trail, the Oregon Trail and the California Trail.
The same person has edited the page to say Southern again.
-- Hobbes747 02:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Missouri is mid-western. Not southern; and why not eliminate that antiquated border term as it is rather meaningless after a century and a half isn't it (it isn't on the Mexican or Canadian border). The only Rebel flags I see here in the Ozarks (about 30 mi. from Arkansas) are those flaunted by good-ol' boys emulating the Dukes of Hazzard never in any official public spot (unless some local official is one of them good ol' boys :-). Vsmith 02:54, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Missouri was a slave state, that's why I consider it a Southern State. That's why I changed it to that, I never knew that it would cause so much controversy. I won't add "Southern" to it again, but Missouri is certainly not a Mid-Western state. I think it should be left as is. It really depends, people who say "Missourah" which is a lot of people from Missouri are Southern. People who say Missouri correctly are not. Burroughsks88 24:58, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
I think MO. is a Southern State. I know geogrphically its more central states, but geography doesnt always indicate culture. You can get chicken n' dumplings in Kansas City- thats as far north as you can get it, and Kansas City is BELOW the Mason-Dixon line. Mo is a "border" state IMO, too, because its right on that dividing line between midwest and south, in culture. Southern MO is very southern. Northern MO. might be a hybrid of Midwestern/Southern. Has anyone seen the comedy show "Mama's Family"- thats good indication of this. Many "Midwestern States" have what are called "Little Dixies". And Mo had many Confederate regiments during the War Between The Statse. So, I think Missouri is Midwestern-Southern.
Here's a list of famous Missourians I had lying around from an article I wrote awhile back for a newsletter: Maya Angelou, Burt Bacharach, Josephine Baker, Yogi Berra, Omar Bradley, George Washington Carver, Walter Cronkite, Sheryl Crow, T. S. Elliott, Robert Heinlein, Edwin Hubbell, Emmett Kelly, Kenneth Lay, Rush Limbaugh, John Pershing, Vincent Price, Harry Truman, and Dick Van Dyke.
It doesn't prove anything, other than I sure don't see a strong Southern character there - but there is some. For what it's worth... Catbar (Brian Rock) 01:00, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
I would argue very strongly against Missouri being a southern state, but then again, I'm from St. Louis. Most of us find the idea of being a southern state simply ridiculous. True, we were a "slave state," but if you look at the numbers, even Maryland had more slaves than us, so by holding slaves, that doesn't indicate south. And we voted against secession over 100 years ago, choosing to remain in the Union during the Civil War. So the historical facts are against Missouri being in the south. -- phil4876
Agreed. I've lived here my entire life, and been around the state and have *never* heard of it referred to as anything but "midwestern" in location. The Deviant 14:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I've spent about half of my life living in Missouri and have always considered it partially Southern and partially Midwestern, depending on the source. I think the only objective thing to do is to reflect this in the Wikipedia article, which after all is solely meant to provide uncontested information - or make it clear when it is contested - and therefore where there is not a near-unanimous consensus on something (sufficient to make it a "fact") this should be stated.
Since it seems that the midwestern side is currently dominant in this discussion, I am not going to defend why Missouri could be called midwestern (I personally don't see any sense in defining it as "purely southern" either).
Historic reasons why Missouri is not fully Midwestern:
Not only was it a slave state, but it had considerable Confederate sympathies (which is why it experienced a violent guerrilla conflict during the war). The only part of the state that was generally considered "Northern" (or midwestern) at the time was the area north of the river, populated by immigrant farmers, as well as the border city of St. Louis, which was strongly pro-Union like all border cities. I think it is a gross error to just pretend that this part of Missouri state history, in which a large segment of its population was willing to fight and die to secede from the Union (the strongest possible declaration of Southernnness), should simply be ignored just because a majority of Missourans today don't consider themselves 'Southern'.
Contemporary reasons why Missouri is not fully Midwestern:
Climate (have you ever heard of the "kudzu grass" definition? There is a type of grass that grows only in the Southern climates - it grows in Southern Missouri, but not in Kansas City or St. Louis, and also in Northern Florida but not in Southern Florida, in Eastern Texas but not in Western Texas, etc.)
Culture (Missouri has a strong undercurrent of Southern-style religiosity, more similar in this respect to the South than to the Midwest, and also has more executions than any midwestern state)
It is also considered Southern by many people in the U.S. today, and ultimately it is popular opinion that defines these sort of things (or leaves then undefined by default, which I think is the case here).
Nonetheless, I don't care enough about this issue to start an editing war so I will leave to whoever oversees this article to consider the merit of my arguments. I think the best thing for Wikipedia's neutrality would be to avoid putting Missouri firmly in either the "southern" or "midwestern" camps. -- 193.54.67.92
The best description I've seen holds that Missouri is the southernmost northern state, the northernmost southern state, the westernmost eastern state, and the easternmost western state. (I've also seen that applied specifically to the city of St. Louis.) As discussed in the various entries above, it has aspects of all of these, varying by region. Like many others who have written here, I am a life-long Missourian who does not consider Missouri a Southern state, though some of those southern regions sure are. But we may be unable to view it from the perspective of someone from |Buffalo or Boise – a similar phenomenon, perhaps, to the fact that no one can hear themselves speaking with an accent. -- Kbh3rd 18:21, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
I grew up near Higginsville where there is a Confederate Cemetary. A Confederate flag does fly there but I've never seen it anywhere else except in the back windows of pickup trucks.
To confuse things further over whether Missouri is a southern state: MO is part of the Southern Governor's Association. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Governors%27_Association -- 140.254.1.197 19:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Not only is Missouri part of the Southern Governor's Association, there is a clear line where Southern Baptists cease to be a large part of state populations, and Missouri is to the south of this line (whose northern border is Oklahoma, Missouri, Kentucky and Virginia). It is also one of the states that has a high number of executions and widespread corporal punishment in schools, two more clear dividers between Southern and Northern/Midwestern cultural influence. It was a slave state and during the Civil War was certainly no more Unionist than neighboring Kentucky, which is clearly a southern state. Apart from the fact that Missourans consider themselves midwestern, there is no cultural evidence to suggest that the state is a part of the midwest. When you're on the highway heading from Illinois into Missouri you immediately notice the sudden influx of Christian Fundamentalist billboards when you cross the state line - and there is no such clear distinction when crossing from Southern Missouri into Arkansas. The most famous Missouran is Mark Twain (who dares call him a Yankee?), and St. Louis is the northernmost major city clearly marked by 'Mississippi River culture.' Clearly the article should state at the very least that Missouri is "either southern or midwestern," but as usual 'tis the stubborn who prevail.
I live in St. Louis and have always heard "St. Louis is a northern city in a southern state." If it hadn't been for the strong anti-slavery German population in St. Louis marching on Jeff City, Missouri would have been part of the Confedercy. I lived for four years in out-state MO near the Iowa border and the people from there definately related to Southern attitudes compared to St. Louis. I would even say it more Southern feeling than Florida where I grew up (and not in the tourist area, I mean the cracker areas). Out-state Mo is very different from STL and KC, and I think alots of the people there consider themselves Southerners. They are certainly nothing like people in Illinios in attitude and opinion. I think that is one example where populations follow Census border lines, although I imagine a river like the Mississippi certainly helped -- Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 15:00, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I think "border state" defines Missouri as well as it can be - there are Southern people througout the state during the civil war - the Northern half was considred "northern" because it was occupied by Federal troops and those Missouri forces that joined the confederate army weren't sent northward. In point of fact the majority of people who migrated to Missouri prior to the Civil War were from Kentucky and Tenessee, and were not "Northern" in attitude. If you study the war, you'll see the bulk of violence by Partisan forces - Missouri Geurillas and Kansas Redlegs - happened in the northern half of the State. The fact of the matter is that most of the people north of the the river didn't own slaves and werne't particularly concerned with that issue, but didn't care for Federal troops moving in and lording it over them - and when Unionists began abusing folks, siezing property and wrongfully imprisoning them under the aegis of supressing "southern sympathizers", and Kansas Redlegs came across the border raping, burning, and pillaging - well, they found thier side had been chosen for them. Just to highlight this, as I understand it some of my ancestors were part of the Underground Railroad - and some of those same ancestores rode with the Partisan Rangers.
There is still a deep connection to all of this in alot of places - I live one county south of the Iowa border, and not one hour drive from me is a town who's historical landmarks and major festival are dedicated to General Sterling Price - a local who was a CONFEDERATE Cavalry commander. Though to be fair, after the war he continued his military service with the US Government and later was a successfull politician. However, the statues and liknesses of him always show him in a Confederate uniform, and the Stars and Bars (which by the way is NOT "the Confederate flag") flies high.
My first edit.
The Bootheel is clearly "Southern". I'm from Charleston, Missouri. I live in Savannah, Georgia and people are always surprised I'm not from Alabama or some other southern state. Furthermore, the atmosphere and culture below Crowley's Ridge is supportive of this view.
Please leave the idea open ended. -Rabb Whitehead
I grew up in California and now find myself in St. Louis. This place is the most racist place I've ever lived or travelled to when it comes to Asian-Americans. Thus, I vote it as a Southern State. Kenzilla
I've done a bit of study on the U.S. South, and I would say Missouri has moved away from being considered "southern." My professor ended up designating as southern the former states of the Confederacy, while recognizing that debate is inevitable. I'm not sure the Mason-Dixon line truly applies, because Florida isn't really seen as a southern state (the South has as much to do with culture as it does geography). Missouri has an interesting Civil War history, it was a slave state, and remember that Mark Twain said Huck Finn was from a Southern town, but I would go with the federal designation as a Midwestern state. Americasroof point on collision of cultures is quite relevant: much of the northern section is a lot like the upper midwest, the northwest has the Great Plains feel of Kansas and Nebraska, the southwest is much like OK and TX approaching the American Southwest, the southeast has cotton fields and a Southern culture, and our east and west borders are dominated by major cities. I've heard the argument that Missouri is somewhat of a microcosm of our nation as a whole. Just a thought.
Could someone add an IPA pronunciation note? Most of the approximations ("rhymes with ...") I have found online don't really help. Rueckk 14:06, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, Kerry having two slightly different radio ads with the different pronoucations based on the MissourE vs MissourUH poll was looked upon as worst of all. (Indecisive or worst yet "too cleaver for own good") Joncnunn 21:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
We've had some comments above on the "proper" pronunciation of Missouri. The following is an extract from an article I wrote about a year ago for a local (NE Ohio) Mensa newsletter. You can find it at Brain Candy #87 - Considering the English Language. It isn't necessarily ready for prime time, so I wouldn't put it in the main article, but here it is if you're curious.
"The simplest variations of the English language are regional dialects. Something struck me in the second Presidential debate last week. The debate was held in St. Louis, and both candidates mentioned Missouri several times. At one point, President Bush pronounced the state's name "mi ZOOR uh". This is a frequent variant of the more common pronunciation of "mi ZOOR ee". Now, it probably doesn't matter too much to most Americans, but Missourians notice. I remember an old article I read years ago that suggested that the "uh" pronunciation was common in the northwestern part of Missouri (where I grew up, by the way), while the rest of the universe pronounced it with the "ee" pronunciation. That may have been true at one time, but time changes things and we now have a Texan using what was once thought to be a local pronunciation. I looked around the web and found that some think it's a west/east issue and others point to a rural/urban variation. Another thing to think about: was that pronunciation used intentionally for effect? If, for instance, you want to appeal to rural voters, and there is a rural/urban component to the pronunciation, you would use the rural variant. It isn't uncommon to hear politicians adopt a bit of a Southern drawl when they are speaking in the South, or for a slight drawl in a candidate to become more pronounced."
I personally respond favorably to the "uh" pronunciation. The "ee" pronunciation always reminded me of "Sooeeee!" - not a favorable impression. Catbar (Brian Rock) 00:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
It's Missoureee.. Do you say Mississippaaah?
I agree that it is Missoureee but the logic used just above is faulty- (ex. Kansas, Arkansas) Lrldcs
...and the pronunciation of many of the town names within Missouri as well in comparison to the country or state names that are spelled the same.
Why does the current IPA have the first vowel as an "uh"(ə) sound, when from reading here and from my own pronunciation of the word, the first vowel is almost always an "ih"(ɪ) sound? Peyna 01:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
This article and Languages in the United States list English as the "official" language of the state. The only mention of English in the Missouri Constitution is in Article I of the Bill of Rights, Section 22(a):
That does not sound like grounds to declare it the "official" language. I.e., no proviso that all laws, official communications, etc., must be in the language. It's the de facto standard language of the state, but official? Unless this search engine is missing something. -- Kbh3rd 15:30, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
I have removed this from the article because it does not fulfill the requirement of use "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research" as required by American law. If you intend to discuss the tourism industry in Missouri or otherwise discuss something with specific reference to the postage stamp, please add the image back in. Johnleemk | Talk 17:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know how to edit or add disambiguation pages, but might I suggest that a link to the Wikipedia article on the American battleship "USS Missouri" be added to the Missouri page? [unknown user]
Good idea, I second that motion. Joncnunn 21:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps there should be a state holiday section, since Missouri has a few holidays not on the US Federal List, including Truman Day. This is the state employee list.
Joncnunn 16:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah... -- Pupster21 15:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I must say, we are taking some liberties with what we're listing as "important cities." I'm sorry, but Eldon and Lebanon do not qualify. Ste. Genevieve is a stretch, and Osage Beach is just a resort town on the lake. Aluminum boats, the Miller County derby? I'm born and raised in Missouri and none of that means anything to me. We can't put every county seat on there; after all, we have the most counties of any state!
Whoops, I made the comment on having the most counties. I don't know where I heard that, but I really should have checked it before I posted. Now I'm blushing.
"Missouri has a very notable urban-rural split, as Democrat John Kerry only won four of the state's 115 counties—St Louis City, St Louis County, Ste Genevieve, and Jackson County." In the 2004 cycle, (and for 2000 and to a somewhat lessor extent in 1996) having a notable urban-rural split was the norm in US states, so I'm not sure that it's important enough to list here. It's actually more interesting in 2004 that many rural New England counties were blue and a few big cities in the great plains were red. Jon 19:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
While it was an anon IP edit, I thought I would address the issue. There is currently no "official" language in Missouri. The closest thing you have is a statute "recognizing" English as the "common language" of the State, but that's really just a policy statement and nothing more. M.S. 1.028. Peyna 01:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it is necessary to have a census column from 1990 adjoining the 2000 one. As you can see from the data, the numbers really didn't change that much between the two years. Funnyhat 22:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I think some of these are really questionable. Granted, I am from St. Louis originally, but I really don't see Lebanon as major city for the state; the justification for this one even seems iffy. Other opinions on this?
Another odd inclusion here is Eldon; I do not think that this is an very important city in terms of the state, no offense going to the fine citizens of Eldon. However, I've been to Eldon a few times, and I still do not know what the Miller County Derby is. I have a hard time imagining many people from outside the state giving this much consideration, but I could be wrong. The fact that it is larger than Osage Beach isn't really that important either.
Again, I'm not trying to start a war about which cities are important or not; all of our cities are important ones. As such I think this section such maybe be renamed "Major cities." "Important cities" is in a loaded phrase, begging to have people roused about how important their own community is.
Comments please. -- Doyel 14:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Note the discussion above on "Important Cities." I think the idea about Illinois's system is worth checking out.
The Missouri Bellweather is the single most interesting facet of contemporary Missouri politics. To pick most of the elections in 100 years might be conicidence. But to pick every one except one is something quite unique. To reduce this to just the results of the last election is a shame. Do a googe on "Missouri Bellweather"
http://www.google.com/search?q=MISSOURI+BELLWETHER
Americasroof 02:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
http://www.google.com/search?q=MISSOURI+BELLWETHER
Americasroof 02:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
The whole point of an encyclopedia article is to point out things that are unique. There have been numerous articles and broadcast stories about I-70 and I-44 being the first as the system celebrates its 50th year. Peyna has been vetoing my edits on interstates and bellweather and the justifications have always been POV. I on the other hand have cited sources (a big Wikipedia plus). Here's a source for the Missouri first interstates. [3]. I'm really not up to continue fighting over this article. It's a shame because there's a lot of cool unique things about Missouri that make interesting reading. Americasroof 03:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)