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Archive 1 |
This page is hopelessly illegible using Netscape. I'm going to try mozilla and see if that works.
Did it work with Mozilla? It looks fine in IE. -- Zoe
I'm using netscape, and I don't have any prolbems seeing this page. Gentgeen 22:17, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
We shouldn't confuse unofficial and vague ideas of metropolitan areas with specific census-defined Metropolitan Statistical Areas. The Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area is a group of counties defined by the U.S. Census to exist. This is what is discussed in this article. The "Delaware Valley" is a vague term used unofficially. There is no reason to suggest that it is identical to the Census Bureau's Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City Consolidated Metropolitan Area. For instance, I doubt most people would recognize Cecil County, Maryland or Cape May County, New Jersey as part of the "Delaware Valley," even if they are part of the Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City Consolidated Metropolitan Area. We need to stop acting as though the areas defined by the census area are an NPOV description of metropolitan areas in the US. For instance, the Washington-Baltimore CMSA is ridiculously huge, including almost entirely rural counties as far out as West Virginia or Maryland's Eastern Shore. Many have suggested that this definition is largely done in order to lower the government's cost of living assessments for federal workers by including lots of cheap, rural areas in the metropolitan area where so many federal employees live. I think we need to get our acts together on this. john k 04:20, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Apologies if the revert of an edit by 24.13.145.196 was inappropriate. Someone using that IP number has vandalized Abortion, Lynndie England and Andrew Jackson this morning. Since I cannot verify his edit I have reverted it.
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--[[User:Tony Sidaway| Tony Sidaway| Talk]] 04:52, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I was the person who made the Northern Jersey section of the article. I clarified it as North Jersey, as Trenton is actually a part of the Philadelphia metro area. Is clarification vandalism. Vandalism would be considered defacing the site with f**k yous all over it. This was not vandalism, it was a reasonable edit. Use your f**king mind before making stupid vandalism claims.
Also, look at my other contributions. Some of them aren't vandalism edits. Nobody else bitched about them!
Why are we using here out of date MSAs? The latest version ( [1]) has rather broken up some of these, notably. john k 14:55, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've heavily revised the article. I used the new (2003) MSAs. I removed discussion that pertains to the old definitions (PMSAs and CMSAs, New England MSAs being based around towns and cities rather than counties). I hope this is acceptable. john k 03:21, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
To Mackerm, I'm not sure what you mean - MSAs aren't determined by the Census Bureau, but by OMB. The new ones went into effect in 2003. They have no necessary connection to any individual census, in that they are merely categorizations of counties, which do not change. EurekaLott, the CSAs are even more outlandishly huge than the CMSAs. The CMSAs were pretty awful at reflecting metropolitan areas, imho - Baltimore and Washington being combined into one was an awful idea, for instance. At any rate, whatever the CSAs are, they are explicitly not metropolitan areas. Notably, the word "metropolitan" does not appear. Furthermore, they are combinations of metropolitan and "micropolitan" areas. As such, using these instead of the MSAs seems inappropriate. If we are going to base our description of US metropolitan areas on OMB's definitions, we ought to use, well, the definitions that OMB uses, and not manipulate their stuff to fit better with our own sense of what things should be. john k 04:48, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Would anyone object if I expanded the list to show the top 50 rather than top 25? The main reason this is important is because advertisers/marketers often target top 50 metro areas, and anything below 50 is comparatively neglected. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Contrib 18:56, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I was just using the 2000 census population figures. john k 02:11, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Huh? I added up the populations of the counties included in each MSA. This would be exactly what the census will do at some point. No need to wait until 2010. As to Philly and Dallas, that is a mistake I made while transferring my info from one form to another. I will correct it. I used the county and city data book to get the population figures for the counties. john k 03:19, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It seems to me that ultimately we should have a list of all Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Micropolitan Statistical Areas, Combined Statistical Areas (which are groups that combine MSAs and McSAs into units similar to the old CMSAs), and so forth listed. We should also, ultimately, have articles on all of them which are separate from articles like Greater Cleveland, which should detail the unofficial ways in which terms like that are used, and perhaps discuss both the CSA for Cleveland (which includes Akron as well), the MSA (which includes Cuyahoga and several neighboring counties) and the cosniderably smaller urbanized area, which is mostly just the larger part of Cuyahoga County. The last definition, of urbanized area, seems to me at least as natural as the MSA definitions, and much more logical than the utterly enormous old CMSA definitions, or the new CSAs. Being from the Washington DC area, the urbanized area - which seems to consist of DC, Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, Fairfax City, and the majority of Montgomery, Prince George's, and Fairfax Counties, with perhaps parts of Prince William and the city of Manassas - seems much more reasonable to me in terms of where I would expect somebody from the "Washington Area" to be from than the enormous MSA, which includes places like Frederick or Solomons or Fredericksburg, not to mention some county in West Virginia. john k 04:30, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I changed my mind about expanding to top 50, as I hadn't noticed the full list linked in here before. That list resolves my concern. However, I do agree with John Kenney that a more refined listing is needed in the Wikipedia. — Stevie is the man! Talk | Contrib 13:26, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've included a new post for Urbanized Area which is important in determining urban population densities, urban sprawl, and urban/rural population ratios. Should we include a mention to it in this article? It seems appropriate.
Every metropolitan area on this page could have an asterisk next to it stating: "People consider XXX metro to be actually larger than this" or "People actually consider XXX metro to be smaller than this." Unless there is a very good reason to add a note (ie. SF's population is almost twice as big if San Jose is added), don't do it. DirectorStratton 06:31, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
According to the Wikipedia page " Minneapolis-St._Paul", the 2000 Census lists the Twin Cities as 15th largest, but this page shows it as the 16th largest.
Also, this describes the Twin Cities as Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Bloomington, but it is clearly including numerous other cities including Richfield (5th largest city in Minnesota?), Roseville, St. Louis Park, Anoka (5th most in the state), etc..... Does this count include the 7 county metro area or the 13 county metro area?
Posted by 70.92.4.83
I see you are not a member. Please consider joining Wikipedia.
As for the ranking, there may be some error or inconsistency, perhaps due to vandalism, someone typing the wrong numbers, etc. Please check the census page and change them if they are wrong. The area here, as stated in the Twin Cities page, is the thirteen county area.
The Twin Cities are Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Bloomington, because that is the official name under the Census MSA designation. DirectorStratton 06:45, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
I realize that it is acknowledged in the article text that the San Fransisco bay area size is an point of contention. I also realise that this list is based on some kind of goverment statsical formula. However, there is a logical inconsistency that needs to be fixed, and by far the best place to do that would be here. Every other page on this wiki, that refers to the bay area includes San Jose and Santa Clara county as part of the metropolitan bay area. For instance, the San_Francisco , San_Jose,_California and San_Francisco_Bay_Area, as well as List_of_metropolitan_areas_by_population articles all list the San Francisco Bay Area as including San Jose, resulting in a Population of over 7 million. Why do they all do this? Because it's correct. The bay area is unbroken urban or suburban area from San Francisco south to San Jose, and back up north from San Jose to Oakland. It is all part of the same area. I would guess that only people with whom this is a contended issue are people who create MSA's. As I understand it, this is not an article about MSA's, but metropolotian areas. It either needs to be fixed, or a resonable explantion needs to be provided.
This whole argument is really irrelevant. The article is informative and there are really no large problems with it. Anyone who thinks that the two should be combined can add at the bottom that many think that they should be combined, but the official rankings separate them. If you really want to know my opinion on the matter, I agree with Stratton. If we give in to the whims of a select group, are we really telling the truth? Trekkie4christ 03:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
Why is Wayne included in the NYC metro area? I'm taking it out pending clarification...it's on the other end of the state, with a miniscule population, and not part of any MSA I'm aware of... Tom e r talk 19:23, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I know this is a point of contention, but I had to weigh in. While locally I think we mean "Bay Area" to be to area around the water, officially the Bay Area consists of nine counties, one of which is Santa Clara (which includes San Jose). This is confirmed by the Association of Bay Area Governments and the Metropolitan Transportation Commission. I'm not just saying this to bump the Bay Area up on the list (I really couldn't care less how we "rank", and I don't usually think of San Jose as being in the "Bay Area"), but because the Bay Area is always defined as the nine counties, and it seems inconsistent that the definition has changed for this article. Of course, I understand this article is never going to be perfect, because of its nature. Still, I like consistency. DejahThoris 20:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
On the List of metropolitan areas by population page, South Florida/Miami area is listed as being bigger than the Delaware Valley by one rank (Miami is #45, Philly is #46).Which is it, since this page lists Philly as bigger than Miami? Andrewia 16:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Cymru, please provide a source for your updates before making changes to the data so that users can verify the data as it's being changed. It would be very helpful. I'm not sure where your information is coming from. For instance, I just checked the Dallas metro area using [4] and the following counties have 2005 population estimates of:
5,819,475
You were correct to update the data, but I want to see what your source is. I prefer the above source because it lists the 2000, 2001, ..., 2005 population estimates for ALL counties in the U.S. Since the census bureau only updates their definitions with every decennial census, I think it would be sufficient just to add up all of the appropriate counties for each metro area. Thanks. Ufwuct 14:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The 2005 midyear estimates for metropolitan areas are now available here. We should start updating figures here as well as in List of United States metropolitan areas. -- Polaron | Talk 23:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed the link to the Bay Area because the information on that page doesn't reflect the information here. A while ago, I added wikilinks to several of the metro areas, I left out some articles because those articles didn't list a population according to the U.S. Census Bureau's definition of a metropolitan area. Rather, these articles listed a population according to an outdated definition or possibly to a definition of what the editors thought the metro area should be. Two examples are L.A. and San Fran. Greater Los Angeles Area does not list a metro area definition anywhere in the article, talking instead about the "area". San Francisco Bay Area does not mention the metro area definition either, but at least mention that the basis for the population estimates in the article ("more than eight million people") is the CSA. But the CSA is not the same as the metro area. If/when these articles highlight and emphasize the metro area (and not just in passing, but as a major focus of the article), then I could agree with wikilink them. Until then, a wikilink to either of these articles is highly misleading. Thanks. Ufwuct 15:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Everyone, including the census, recognized Washington-Baltimore as a metro area. why not this chart?
also, the second chart depicts Houston as being 3 times denser than Washington, WTF!?
Why is somebody puting the wrong population for Greter Seattle? According to the WA State Office of Financial Management website the population is listed close to 4 million instead of 3.2. Furthermore the source isn't accuarate since Seattle isn't even mentioned.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.72.10 ( talk • contribs) 21:23, 13 November 2006.
Well then why does Emporis along with the government census say otherwise? See [5] [6] You're source is innacurate so please stop putting the wrong information about the Puget Sound Region. Tboy206 18:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The 2006 Census estimates are now available for counties, meaning that 2006 population estimates can now be added for CSA's and MSA's.-- Criticalthinker 05:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The map appears to have Guam (GU) and Northern Mariana Islands (MP) switched. Richard K. Carson 05:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I am confused, why doesn't the Bay Area include the San Jose Area. In fact, Fremont is closer to San Jose than Oakland. In fact, I thought that the Bay Area is actually the San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland Metropolitain Area
Yeah, I agree, that would make sense. However, this chart is taken from the US Census, and they are basically the undisputed experts on the matter. There is a term that I sometimes see used "combined statistical area". This is a little more inclusive- it combines DC and Baltimore for example, as well as all three major cities in the bay area.-- Cms479 ( talk) 20:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
This Article is misleading. OMB difined the "METROPOLITAN STATISTICAL AREA" and NOT "METROPOLITAN AREA" which this article claims. Those two terms are different. Yes-- there is the word "Metropoliatan" word on "MSA" but it does not necesarilly defines A Metropolitan Area. "MSA" is just a technical term used by the OMB or the Census Bureau like the other term "Combined Statistical Area" for organizational statistical purpose. Thus, CSA or MSA should not be interchangebly use with a much flexible "metropolitan area".
What I mean is neither of CSA or MSA can claim the term "metropolitan area" exclusively. For example in this article it claims that MSA is an exclusive defenition of what a "Metropolitan Area" is and ignoring CSA completely.
The thing is all Region has their own comfort level. Some Region are contented calling their own "Metropolitan Area" within the MSA only. BUT other regions are also more contented calling their "Metropoliatan Area" within the larger CSA.
I agree with the suggestion that this article should be merge with the "list of Metropolitan Statistical Are" or if not the Title of this article should be renamed (and STRONGLY suggest) as "Top 25 largest Metropolitan Statistical Area" to be more objective and NOT simply "Metropolitan Area". The reason why many people here are confused and has been disputing the rankings.
Primary dispute includes the breaking up of an obviously large "metropolitan areas" into smaller pieces like in the case of greater Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area. Los Angeles was broken into 3 MSA while San Francisco was broken into 6 MSA. The CSAs of both SF and LA are the more acceptable figure of defining their "Metropolitan Area"
My suggestion is why not use the "Combined Statistical Area" instead? which I think better reflects or fit the true nature boundaries of the large metropolitan areas in US.
But I also undestand some people also disputing about some groupings in "CSA", particularly the Baltimore-Washington DC area. Some say it is too large, does not really exsist as a ONE "true metro area" since it also covers a lot of rural areas between them.
LA, and SF Bay Area However are more urbanely connected and are more strongly connected socially, economically, and in commuting patterns but was ironically split up into several small pieces on the list.
Furthermore, The MSAs in LA and SF also has only one Media Designated Market Area each, making them more tightly attached (LA-Riverside-Vetura has only one DMA San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose has only one DMA)meaning they get their Local News and show programs in one source unlike D.C. and Baltimore which has seperate DMA completely.
Heres a link which ranks all the CSAs including those MSAs and Micropolitan Area http://demographia.com/db-usmet2003.pdf (These are all from official facts from Census Bureau website)
I suggest that if many here especially who lives in DC-Baltimore Area is uncomfortable joining their 2 metropolitan together then split them up and just use their MSAs numbers and rank them appropiately on the ranking list I provided.
on the otherhand since its universally accepted that San Francisco Metro and San Jose Metro are just part of one huge Metro Area and most people who lives there accepts this then we should use the figures of its CSA rather than its MSA in this particular sitiuation.
Keep in mind tha this is not a "VAGUE" defenition of what the SF Bay Area metro is, The Census Burea and OMB officially recognize this Metro Area with firm and defined boundaries only they do not call it "Metropolitan Statistical Area" but "Combined Statistical Area".
If this Article intetion is to be more objective (showing standards) then change the Title into "METROPOLITAN STATISTICAL AREAS" and not "Metropolitan Areas"
But if this article is trying to reflect the true US "Metropolitan Area" then it should be more comprimising.
Someone erased my updates to the list of metro areas yesterday. The page went back to what it was before. Why? I think the Orlando Metro area might be in the top 50 metro areas now. It has 2.6 million people in it's metro area. dpark609 Written 11:11 AM, May 12. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpark609 ( talk • contribs) 18:11, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
It actually seems that San Francisco and San Jose comprise the same metropolitan area, along with Oakland and all the other suburban communities. Metropolitan areas are defined by: distance; how often citizens of a city utilizes businesses and assets of the region; and/or if the area frequently works or functions together as one entity. The distance between San Francisco's and San Jose's downtown areas are only about 47 miles apart, the distance is even shorter if measured from the tip of one city to the tip of the other. This is no different than Seattle and Tacoma, or Irvine in Orange County and downtown Los Angeles. Each of these areas (rightfully so) are established as one metropolitan area. People of San Jose frequently utilize the cultural assets of San Francisco (and vice versa) such as its museums and art galleries, and its nightlife. Local television stations cover the entire region. Many residents of San Jose also commute to work to San Francisco on a daily basis. Professional teams such as the Giants and 49ers represent the region as a whole, as many in San Jose attend these sporting events. BART is working on plans to extend its rapid transit line to San Jose, which means the metro lines will encompass San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose, thus meaning San Jose is part of the metropolitan area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 ( talk) 02:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm a Chicago resident who has heard "Tri-State Area" being used to refer to Chicago, southeast Wisconson, and northwest Indiana. I didn't want to change the page, because the NYC Tri-State Area already has an article, but can anyone else confirm or deny that this is a Chicago-area term as well? -Trillian
FYI: In case there are questions ...
I did a little rephrasing on the lead. The previous version seemed to imply that a metropolitan area is some sort of legal administrative division defined by the OMB (it did not say this explicitly but by treating the OMB definitions so formally and exclusively, without clarifying that, it was easy to get that impression). The wording also seemed to imply that the OMB owns the definitions of the metro areas in the sense that all sources exclusively adhere to the OMB definitions as the correct definitions for the metro areas. These things, of course, are all untrue. I rephrased to first describe what a metro area is in general and then move onto the OMB definitions.
-- Mcorazao ( talk) 23:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
How would you calculate the density of each metro area? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.104.132 ( talk) 22:25, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I had added in some discussion about the BEA "economic areas" so as to not overemphasize the OMB definitions. Polaron stripped these out saying "BEA economic areas are not metropolitan areas".
Can I ask for a clarification? Why are the OMB definitions more authoritative here than the BEA definitions?
-- Mcorazao ( talk) 22:27, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
United States metropolitan area →
Metropolitan Statistical Area — This article deals with the specific OMB and Census definition of a Metropolitan Statistical Area and should be retitled as such to avoid confusion. The inconsistent capitalization in the page title looks unprofessional. The Metropolitan Statistical Area article has only ever redirected to this one until I attempted a copy/paste edit and fortunately realized there was a better mechanism.
Proctorg76 (
talk) 03:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
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Wikipedia's policy on article titles.I'm sure this is very simple math, but I can't figure out exactly how commuter rates are calculated. I've gone to the Census website and downloaded the commuter numbers, but can't figure out how to calculate it. Could someone pick two counties and explain what you divide by what and so forther? -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 13:42, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
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I contact the OMB about the second definition for designated as a "central county" because it was confusing me.
It is really just for counties where an urban area extends into more than one county; it allows for a lower threshold for the inclusion of the secondary central county(ies). But I'm not sure if I'd need to cite this or how. As an example, say you have an urban area of 80,000 where 74,000 of the urban area is located in County A, and 6,000 of the urban area is in County B, County B is then designated as a "central county." So whereas the first definition is for an urban areas or a collection of urban areas in a single county, this second definition is for an urban area centered near the border of one county and spilling over into another. What's the best wording for this? Someone could add a sentence after the second definition. -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 14:34, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
In the external link section there is a link labeled "US Census Metropolitan Statistical Area Delineations". This goes to a page on archive.org, with 2015 and earlier data in Excel format.
This may be a more appropriate link. It is a pdf from 2017 from OMB. However, I don't feel comfortable making the change so if someone more familiar with Wikipedia wants to make the change here you are.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/omb/bulletins/2017/b-17-01.pdf
SeriousTube ( talk) 03:55, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Here are the most recent delineations from September 2018:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Bulletin-18-04.pdf
I am not sure when the Census Bureau will make available to most recent commuter data (2012-2016) for anyone interested, but that is neither here nor there. -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 09:56, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Along with the new delineations released last year is a new map:
https://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/us_wall/Sep2018/CBSA_WallMap_Sep2018.pdf?#
And here is the new Combined Statistical Areas map someone can replace on that article:
https://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/metroarea/us_wall/Sep2018/CSA_WallMap_Sep2018.pdf?#
Can someone with the know-how replace the outdated 2013 map on this page? -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 23:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Data for many cities including Phoenix is inaccurate and has data from 2018. Accurate values from the 2020 Census are available on the US Federal Reserve's website.
Data for Phoenix from 2019 which clearly shows current data on this page is outdated :
Here's the data for Phoenix from US Federal Reserve/2020 Census(should be updated to this value):
Here are a few other cities for which the data is inaccurate for :
Sources are clearly listed on the links and they are linked to the US 2020 Census. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:11E0:3B00:A4FE:8C3C:CDF:AE7 ( talk) 02:28, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
There seems to be something wrong with the population of the Louisville, KY metropolitan area. According to the table, Louisville is the fastest-growing metro from 2020 to 2021. However, I see that the table was updated incorrectly and someone changed the population estimate for Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN MSA. Before the edit, The metro area declined by just under 0.1% by the census. But when I saw the change, the metro area grew by more than 8% in one year. There is no way that the metro area grew that fast. As I observe the table, the Austin, Dallas, and Phoenix areas grew relatively quickly over the last year, but Louisville grew a little too quickly for a metro area. For comparison, the state of Kentucky as a whole grew by 0.1% between April 1, 2020 and July 1, 2021, the same percentage growth as that of the United States. But what's the problem with Louisville? An 8% gain for the Louisville metro area vs the state of Kentucky 0.1% gain. It is too critical about the massive gain of the metro area. The estimate for the Louisville metro area should be changed. 23.150.224.58 ( talk) 14:04, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
This
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Please change the 2020 Census and 2010 Census columns to 2021 estimates and 2020 Census columns as shown in [ this version] of the page. I recently updated the table on this page to display the new 2021 population estimates as released by the US Census Bureau. I replaced the 2010 population column with the 2020 population and added in the 2021 estimates. This page is updated every year in this manner (usually by me or another confirmed user). An unconfirmed user with IP address 173.216.98.39 continues to change it back to the 2020 and 2010 counts. I reverted it and explained that since the 2021 estimates reflect the growth according to the 2020 Census counts, the 2010 Census numbers are no longer relevant. I have finished updating the Micropolitan Statistical Area populations in like fashion and I am requesting a temporary semi-page protection on this page so that the appropriate statistical information that is being uploaded to this page is not being undone. Coulraphobic123 ( talk) 18:09, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
The 2021 estimate should be added as a new column and not replacing the 2010 census. The percentages between the official census counts offers a more accurate depiction of growth and better scope. The 2020 census showed that the estimates leading up to it had been quite inaccurate in many cases so the most recent estimate data should be available on the page but not relied upon. 173.216.98.39 ( talk) 19:52, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the responses, and I'm sorry about the delay. Let me try to explain the rationale behind why the numbers were switched to 2020 and 2021 estimates, and please note I'm not trying to come off as preachy or judgmental or anything here, just having a discussion :) The 2010 Census figures are no longer relevant to this page anymore...in fact, they are as relevant as the 2000 figures or 1960 figures or 1820 figures. I sort of feel that if the 2010 Census figures were to remain to show the growth between 2010 and 2020 as that is a "more accurate depiction" of growth rates in the metro areas compared to the 2020-2021 change, then we should also see what the chnage was between 2000 and 2010...and 1990 and 2000...and so on. Metropolitan areas and cities grow at different rates, at different times in their history, for different reasons. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that the 2010 counts are no longer relevant as the 2020 Census now serves as the official benchmark for which all population estimates will be calculated for the next ten years. I understand the illusion that the 2021 estimates seem to be inaccurate due to the massive drops in population for a lot of the metro areas, but as someone who used to work for a branch of the US Census Bureau, I can assure you that the methods for calculating estimates and tabulating totals is multi-pronged and multi-layered. There are other demographic shifts responsible for the odd changes in metropolitan populations between 2020 and 2021 besides just the COVID-19 pandemic. Yes, it's true that in some cases, the Census Bureau doesn't always do particularly well at calculating all estimates (the 2000 population for my mom's childhood hometown was 402 people and the 2009 estimate was something like 420 before the 2010 Census counted 296), but in time and with challenges, these figures are frequently corrected or adjusted. In the end, though, the fact remains that the official source of statistical population counts for the United States is the United States Census Bureau and has been since it was formed in 1902. While there are a multitude of other sources out there that may use differing techniques for calculating population growth and amounts, these pages should utilize the official data from the official source. I'm sure next year once the 2022 estimates come out, there will be a noticeable change in the growth of the metro areas due to other factors. I hope I was able to kind of explain the reasoning behind why the 2010 figures are no longer applicable, and again, I apologize if the tone is anything other than neutral (I'm not a very succinct person) :) Coulraphobic123 ( talk) 20:25, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
(Moved new comment to bottom of page, per talk page convention.)
All of the percent changes in the population for the tables are flipped: for all metros where population increased, a negative numbeis shown; for all where population decreased, a positive number is shown. This was really confusing for me when I first saw it, as I'm sure it'll be for anybody else who sees this issue in the future. Poxy4 ( talk) 13:45, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
The US Census Bureau has released its annual county population estimates. Since MSAs are defined by county boundaries, that generally means that we can update the MSA and μSA estimates, too. However, Connecticut is no longer going with county boundaries and is now going with "planning regions" and, as such, the metro/micro estimates will not be released until May in order for them to make the requisite adjustments. You can briefly read more about it on the Census Bureau's official release for county population estimates. [7]. As such, I feel we should hold off on updating this table and the micro table until that time. Agreed? Coulraphobic123 ( talk) 23:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
The OMB has issued a New Delineations Report. This website and the map that goes with it needs to be updated. Inkan1969 ( talk) 16:55, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
My understanding is the census bureau names MSAs and CSAs using two hyphens instead of an en dash(–). This looks a little funny, but it can help people avoid issues if they are trying to match text. Is the current use of the en dash intentional in names like 'Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA'? 38.140.38.234 ( talk) 18:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Use an en dash for the names of two or more entities in an attributive compound.
- the Seifert–van Kampen theorem; the Alpher–Bethe–Gamow theory
- the Seeliger–Donker-Voet scheme (developed by Seeliger and Donker-Voet)
- Comet Hale–Bopp or just Hale–Bopp (discovered by Hale and Bopp)
Is there a consensus as to how to go about logging the population estimates for 2023 that will be released in early 2024 as far as the 2020 Census column goes? Since the borders of some metropolitan areas have changed and been redefined, keeping the original population in the 2020 Census column may reflect a misleading population change. Example: the Sioux Falls, MSA has added a fifth county per the most recently released MSA delineations. When the 2023 population estimates come in next year, should the 2020 Census population reflect the original 4-county population in 2020, or should the 2020 Census be re-calculated to include the 2020 Census population for the new fifth county as if it had been originally included in the first place? Similarly, Connecticut has switched from counties to planning regions which have completely changed the boundaries of everything. Should these also be taken into consideration in recalculating the 2020 Census column? Or should the 2020 Census column just be kept as is without recalculating per the new delineations? Sorry for not being succinct, I hope what I'm saying makes sense XD Coulraphobic123 ( talk) 02:29, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi there from the de:Portal:Vereinigte Staaten! Is there any kind of a summary of all changes by the new 2023 OMB Bulletin regarding new delineations and up-/downgrades of areas to/from MSAs? As there will not take place a new census earlier than 2030, is it therefore necessary to add all the particular county inhabitant numbers of 2020, or is there anywhere a line-up of all numbers of re-defined MSAs one can refer to as a source? It is hard to keep track of things here, as a non-native English speaker. By the way, we prefer to work with census data only and want to avoid using data from an estimate. Thank you for your support. Regards Dionysos1988 ( talk) 21:51, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
The numbers in the table are inconsistent with numbers shown for the same figure on other Wikipedia pages. For example, SF Bay Area MSA is shown as ~4M here, but over 7M in other pages 71.191.218.90 ( talk) 15:41, 16 August 2023 (UTC)