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Judaism is specifically the religion of one people, Israel. Halakhah (Jewish law) defines permitted interactions between Jews and non-Jews, thus setting the parameters for the traditional Jewish theology of the "other." Applying biblical concerns, Jews are absolutely prohibited from any activity that might generate idolatrous behavior by any human. Rabbinic halakhah expands this discussion to permitted positive interactions with those who obey God's laws for all human civilization, the seven Noahide laws which include a prohibition of idolatry. For non-Jews, fulfillment of these laws is the prerequisite for salvation. Human self-identity begins with the negative definition of "self" as "not other," spanning from the infantile recognition that parents have independent existences and extending to communal definitions of characteristics or boundaries that place some people "in" and others "out." We all live in overlapping circles of such communal boundaries, defined by such things as family, geographic proximity, co-workers, ethnicity, and religion. While some of these social structures are informal, others are defined by codified rules determining who is "self" and who is "other." Religious communities and national communities tend to be the most formal in defining these boundaries. Judaism, as primarily a national/ethnic community, traditionally handles these distinctions through the mechanisms of halakhah, of rabbinic legislation. This halakhic definition of "self" creates the underpinnings for the more theological expressions of this concept. At its most fundamental level, the definition of "Jew" is neither religious nor theological, but ethnic. By the emergence of rabbinic Judaism in the late Second Temple period, anyone born to a Jewish mother was automatically considered a Jew. But while this matrilineal descent determined membership in the nation, one's father's status determined one's type of membership. As long as one's father was himself a Jew and had married appropriately, his children inherited his ritual status in the Temple as a priest (kohen), levite, or Israelite. Certain elements of this status remain relevant even today, long after the destruction of the Temple. Thus, while matrilineal and patrilineal descent both play roles in the construction of Jewish society, matrilineal descent is the more fundamental category. Thus, as long as one's mother is a Jew, one is by definition oneself a Jew, a citizen of 'Am Yisra'el, the people Israel, and a participant in Israel's covenant with God.--HIZKIAH ( User • Talk) 11:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Human self-identity begins with the negative definition of "self" as "not other," spanning from the infantile recognition that parents have independent existences and extending to communal definitions of characteristics or boundaries that place some people "in" and others "out." We all live in overlapping circles of such communal boundaries, defined by such things as family, geographic proximity, co-workers, ethnicity, and religion. While some of these social structures are informal, others are defined by codified rules determining who is "self" and who is "other." Religious communities and national communities tend to be the most formal in defining these boundaries. Judaism, as primarily a national/ethnic community, traditionally handles these distinctions through the mechanisms of halakhah, of rabbinic legislation. This halakhic definition of "self" creates the underpinnings for the more theological expressions of this concept. --HIZKIAH ( User • Talk) 14:40, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Upon first visiting Judaism, I noticed use of the term "BC" right away in terms of the era, and there is also usage of "BCE", "CE", and "AD". Generally, Wikipedia suggests that we only use one era notation per article, so I was wondering what we might need to do about this. A compromise I think we should use here is the usage of "BC", but usage of "CE" for years after 1 CE. It would be using both eras, but it would solve the annoying problem of when people tend to add "BC" instead of "BCE" when editing. Any other suggestions?. — RunningAway 18:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
"Even if the subject of the new article is controversial, this does not automatically make the new article a POV fork. However, the moved material must be replaced with an NPOV summary of that material. If it is not, then the "spinning out" is really a clear act of POV forking: a new article has been created so that the main article can favor some viewpoints over others." [1]
We should restore "Criticism" section to be more NPOV. Christianity and Islam article have Criticism section. Vapour
We should yes. Mikebloke 23:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I have to say that it can't possibly be true that Judaism has 14 and 18 million followers at the same time. Why doesn't someone correct the number?
The second sentence is a fragment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zazaban ( talk • contribs) 24 January 2007.
Actually, I didn't add the above, but returned it after it was deleted. It was added by an anon. Zazaban 17:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I refer the "note" before "contents". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.14.226.236 ( talk) 11:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
I edited a sentence to make two corrections. First, the Hebrew Bible does not refer to the Torah. Second, it does not present this history of the Children (or People) of Israel from the beginnings of time. I do not know why Shaul would revert my corrections but it is so inexplicable it verges on vandalism. this is an encyclopedia and has to meet a minimum standard of accuracy. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I am afraid that in both cases you misinterpret what I wrote. I know you meant well because I agree with both of your claims, but you misunderstand me since neither claim responds to what I actually wrote. Just as I assum you acted in goo faith, you should too. Slrubenstein | Talk 18:21, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
io:Judaismo - thank you, io:User:Joao Xavier 12:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
The nature of the mentioned sacrifices should be specified. Isn't it "notable" that the Jewish nation with its nuclear weapons engages in such ancient rites? 24.64.165.176 03:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The original posters post is quite obviously a ruse, some teenager (or someone with a similar mentality) trying to be funny, and sadly failed. I know that Israel has admitted to having nuclear weapons (Although I cant find where they said it) but I dont see why they shouldnt be able to when everyone else is rushing to get them. An article where they feel they found them in israel (Possiably) is here [2]
I changed "Hebrew Bible" to "Tanakh" in the first sentence of the section "Traditional view of the development of Judaism". This is consistent with the word used in the first paragraph of the article. Additionally "Hebrew Bible" links to a page on the term "Hebrew Bible", not the Tanakh itself. -- Steven J. Anderson 05:25, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed a number of external links. I did it one link per edit to make it easy for others to check my work. I'm trying to get the section in shape to get rid of the cleanup tag. Does it make sense to link to external pages in Hebrew since this page is for English speakers? (I didn't remove any links to pages in Hebrew, just wondering what others think) Comments here or at my talk page.-- Steven J. Anderson 02:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed a number of internal links that duplicate the Judaism portal. WP:MOS discourages gratuitous lists of links. Steven J. Anderson 02:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Final paragraph:
What has this to do with the traditional view of the development of Judaism?-- Steven J. Anderson 19:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Also consider the preceding paragraph:
I can't see what this description of the page layout of the Talmud has to do with the traditional view of the development of Judaism. I'm sure it would be fine in an article or section on the Talmud. I'm in favor of removing both, but don't want to remove that much text without seeking consensus first.-- Steven J. Anderson 03:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Deleted both after a week without comments. -- Steven J. Anderson 15:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I added the sources tag. Just about every sentence in this section has at least one claim that needs to be cited.-- Steven J. Anderson 06:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to be a nag, i'm not helping but, this article really is too long, break it up into other articles, simplify it and, try to make it a feature article - this is such an important subject yet, it is not an FA. Also, archive this page. If you need help or any non factual work done, drop me a line :)
--talk to symode09's or Spread the love! 16:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The sections on kashrut and holidays are full of misinformation, not to mention being poorly written. These (and probably other sections) need a major rehaul. -- Gilabrand 19:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The term "ultra-Orthodox" is not pejorative. Maybe you are thinking of "dos." -- Gilabrand 21:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The fact is, many people perceive it as pejorative, and that includes the people to whom it is most often applied. So even if you disagree, it's a fact that most Haredim dislike the term, even though the secular media has adopted it as an official term.
If you look at the history of the prefix ultra- when applied to social movements, it is almost invariably pejorative, a label applied by outsiders to any movement perceived to be "beyond the pale." Although the prefix literally means "beyond" (as in ultraviolet), I think that in the context of political or religious movements a better definition would probably be "excessive." Here, for instance, is the definition by the Online Etymological Dictionary:
prefix meaning "beyond" (ultraviolet) or "extremely" (ultramodern), from L. ultra- from ultra (adv. and prep.) "beyond, on the further side," from PIE *al- "beyond." In common use from early 19c., it appears to have arisen from Fr. political designations. As its own word, a noun meaning "extremist" of various stripes, it is first recorded 1817, from Fr. ultra, shortening of ultra-royaliste "extreme royalist." [3]
Of course, it is possible for pejorative expressions to become official (a lot of names for various groups have less than flattering etymologies), and members of a group may start to wear a pejorative expression as a badge of pride. You will find people who proudly identify as ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal, even though those terms were originally slurs. And I have encountered Haredim who claim not to have a problem with the term "ultra-Orthodox," though I suspect this is more a matter of begrudging surrender to a trend they feel powerless against.
One blogger I encountered, for example, told me that he doesn't mind being called ultra-Orthodox, just as he wouldn't mind being called ultra-beautiful or ultra-smart. That's an interesting argument, but I think it proves my very point: people rarely use phrases like "ultra-beautiful" or "ultra-smart," because the word "ultra" is usually reserved for insults. marbeh raglaim 21:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Out of pure curiosity, I just did a small experiment: I examined the first 10 Google hits that come up under the phrase "ultra-Orthodox." This is what I found: two Wikipedia articles, two allegedly neutral news articles, one site complaining about the term, and five sites critical of Haredim. Not a single one of these pages uses the term in a positive, complimentary sense. I suspect you will find a similar breakdown if you were to do a bigger search. marbeh raglaim 21:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
This section has a number of problems. It starts out discussing the historical origins of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews (a discussion perhaps more relevant to Jews than Judaism). It then segues to a description of Jewish denominations, a subject already well handled in the following section, entitled (appropriately) Jewish denominations. I think everything from about the sentence beginning " Orthodox Jews assert the supreme authority ...", or perhaps "The Hasidic sects of eastern Europe ..." should come out and the remainder be rewritten with a view to describing how the Ashkenazic and Sephardic groups developed different religious practices, since this is an article about a religion, not an ethnic group. I realize that the religious and ethnic aspects of Judaism/Jewry are difficult to dissect away from each other, but I really think this section needs some work. -- Steven J. Anderson 19:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
"Judaism Divisions" is not English - I would give it a different heading. -- Gilabrand 11:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Anyone else think it seems amazingly NPOV that the opening to the article seems to state that the covenant between God and Moses is some type of absolute fact. Perhaps it should say "based on the belief in a covenant" or something like that. 70.191.222.17 13:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Didn't read the whole introduction, I am an idiot, wording is fine, disregard, I shouldn't edit before I have had my coffee :) 70.191.222.17 13:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, Steven J. Anderson. I see you are doing good work in cleaning up this article, but I wondered why you think "people of the book" is only a Muslim term for the Jews. The Jews call themselves "Am Hasefer," meaning "people of the book." Certainly it is not a label I would be ashamed of. -- Gilabrand 10:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Please look at this:
"Judaism does not have a clergy, in the sense of full-time specialists required for religious services."
from here and this:
"The most common professional clergy in a synagogue are:"
from here.
I realize this is a bit sticky semantically, but the statements fall within a few lines of each other, and are bound to be awfully confusing to a general reader who comes to this article looking for information that he doesn't already have. Something tells me that the text got the way it is as a result of a semantic dispute, so I thought I'd look for comments here first before revising. Of course, anyone else who wants to take a shot is welcome. -- Steven J. Anderson 01:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Gilabrand 11:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The Beta Israel article says the term may be considered pejorative. Does it belong in this article? -- Steven J. Anderson 09:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Look
here. Is Israel a Western nation? It's located in a part of the world that used to be known as the Occident Orient. Maybe this is hairsplitting, but I'd like to get it right. --
Steven J. Anderson 11:16, 9 May 2007 (UTC) Oops. it was late--
Steven J. Anderson 19:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Gilabrand 13:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC) LOLOLOLOL nice.
I think many Israeli's view Israel as a Western nation, and also I bet there are many who do not view it as a Western nation. Note: I am not arguing that this is right or wrong, just that this is something people believe. One could write "an arguably Western nation" or find someother way to register that there are different views. As far as I know, the geographical location of Israel/Palestine was never "the occident" it may have been the Lavant, the orient, the Near East, or the Middle East, but not the Occident. When writing about the religion of ancient Israel (i.e. the people who wrote the Bible) I think they are most commonly refered to as "ancient Near Eastern" but this si still a little arbitary. The religion of ancient Israel has antecedants in ancient Egypt and ancient Mesopotamian societies e.g. the Sumerians. Rabbinic Judaism developed largely in Persia/Babylonia. But Zionism is definitely a predominantly Western movement, informed as it was by various Western discourses of nationalism, representative democracy, and socialism. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Even Russia, a European nation through and through, is often excluded from this exclusive club of "Western Nations". Israel is no more "Western" than, say, Lebanon. Lebanon is half Christian, therefore has more "culture" in common with Europe, but is still Middle Eastern, not Western.
In other words, white skin and German/Russian last names don't make you Western. I'm sorry, but you were all thinking it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.155.133 ( talk) 13:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
This section has the "too few opinions" template. My understanding of these templates is that an editor who sees an article that he thinks needs work is supposed to place them and then open a discussion on the talk page about how to improve the article. Does anyone know how it got there? I'm posting this to open a discussion on it, but I'm in favor deleting the template. -- Steven J. Anderson 21:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone object to adding a link to http://www.torahforme.com/files/Q%20and%20A/ a site that has basic questions and answers about Judaism? Shadchan 14:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Two weeks have passed and no protest, so i am posting the link. Shadchan 21:46, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
The first sentence made me think this, forgive me for not knowing about the religion--or reading the threads--in advance:
Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people
If Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people, what do the converts follow under? Or better yet, once you become a part of the Jewish religion, does converting make you a Jew? 147.153.57.138T.McCarthy 147.153.57.138 23:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)147.153.57.138
There is an idea in Judaism, where those who convert into Judaism, never really converted. That is to say that they were always Jewish with which to begin. Those who convert have always had Jewish neshamas ('souls'), meaning their ancestors stood at Sinai. Overtime, one way or another their ancestors strayed from Judaism, but those "converts" found their way back. Thus, indeed they are accepted and welcomed into the Jewish community. People also think that because those interested in converting are originally turned down by the Rabbis that Judaism is intolerant or looks down on converts. This is not so. The reason they are initially turned down when interested in converting is to test them, so-to-speak. If they really want it, if they truly do have Jewish neshama's, then they will persevere and not take no for an answer. Through this means, one can differentiate between someone converting for the right reasons (because he truly is Jewish) and for the wrong (for the sake of marrying a Jew, for example). Mike Isenberg 06:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Jayjg, would you please control your arbitrary reverts without discussion. As far as I know, this is not your personal website and there's no place for removing legitimate contributions without discussion. It's rude, ignorant and selfish to act this way and you may end up receiving a whole lot of complaints about you being here. If you can't keep yourself under control, you'll have to removed. If you disagree with a submission, discuss it here first. I'm reverting the content, and asking you to stop with vandalism of legitimate contributions without discussing it first. You're not the only bright light in the universe, so get a grip on your delete key. Hoserjoe 04:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I placed the talk up top to try to get the attention of the inconsiderate and ignorant person who was reverting without discussion - was that you using a different login? Saying "LOL, etc" sounds like you're intent on insulting others rather than improving a WP topic. It's immature and spiteful, not to mention inconsistent with WP objectives. Sometimes some folks get the idea that WP is their personal sandbox. Hoserjoe 07:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I am seeking a Good Article Review because this article is mostly origional research.-- Sefringle Talk 04:23, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
"According to traditional Jewish belief, the God who created the world established a covenant with the Jewish people"...
amm.. the covenant wasn't with the Jewish people but with the children of Israel.. before there were even Israelites.. so it can't be with thw "Jewish people". GOER 20:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
the article contains this statement that I don't think is accurate "It differs from many religions in that central authority is not vested in a person or group, but in sacred texts and traditions."
First, till the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and drove the Jews out of Jerusalem, it was a religion with a central authority, wasn't it? The Judaism that Jesus wanted to reform was centralized around the Temple. And when the Jews rebuild the Temple, centralized authority is coming back.
Second, Roman Catholicism (and its Anglican splinter) is famously centralized, Christian Orthodoxy somewhat, and perhaps Tibetan Buddhism. But Islam, many many Protestant faiths, Buddhism, Hindusim... is Judaism really so distinct in not having central authority?
This article cites Judaism as starting in 2000 BCE. The "World Religions" article ( [6]) cites it as starting in "13th century BC/BCE". It seems that this discrepancy should be fixed.
Phrases like "who established a covenant with God" appear in this article but do not belong there. This is an encyclopedia and not a story book. Until gods can be shown to exist, their existence shouldn't be treated as fact. DramonFalling 15:22, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I removed the following statement as it makes no sense to me.
"Interestingly, the biblical text that is considered to be the core of Judaism (Deut. 6,4: "Hear, O Israel, YHWH is our God, YHWH is One" (in Hebrew, "Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad", with "Adonai" standing in for YHWH)), represents this God's apparent intolerance of the worship of other gods."
This statement says nothing about intolerence, rather it is a statement of connection "...is our G-d" and of Oneness "...is One". LemonLion 00:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The introduction states that Judaism has always been monotheistic; however, the critical historical summary mentions 3 sources of evidence arguing the contrary. -Rich 68.239.48.188 01:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Several months ago I questioned the reason for this link to an article that deals mostly with Islam and found language near the end of the article dealing with use of the term in Judaism. However, in the intervening months, this edit by this user removed that language, citing a lack of sources. Unfortunately, this has rendered the link in the "Judaism" article nonsensical. The talk page at "People of the Book" contains ample references to its use in a Jewish context, but there were no inline sources in the article. How shall we remedy this? -- Steven J. Anderson 04:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
There are too many errors on the "Judais" page for me to note here. That in itself proves why we, members, need to be able to edit this page. One such example, a crucial note of the history of the Jews is our past. That is, it was inaccurately stated in the 'Distinction between Jews and Judaism' section that, "...most of Judaism's 4,000-year history..." This is currently year 5758, meaning, at the very least, that note should read, "most of Judaism's 5,000-year history..." Please see to it, somone, that this error is fixed - among the many others. Mike Isenberg 18:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I say we, because, for some reason, I am unable to edit this page - unless, of course, you would be so kind as to tell me why that is and how I can edit it in the future. Thanks. Mike Isenberg 06:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, okay. I've been a member for a while, actually, but I couldn't remember my old username (haven't signed on in ages), so I made a new account. I'll be sure to be subtle and tactful with my sugestions. Thanks letting me know! Mike Isenberg 17:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
"These groups typically combine Christian theology and Christology with a thin veneer of Jewish religious practices." My, we have given up on NPOV early in the process, haven't we. 199.71.183.2 19:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Folks, since it is impossible to know if such a person as Abraham ever existed anywhere other than as a character in a story, it is inapproprate to date the age of Judaism by the supposed time that he lived. When citing the AGE OF JUDAISM, please refer only to the time for which we understand the real-life tradition of real-life people to have existed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.170.134.65 ( talk) 22:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
There are excellent arguments (not the least of which come from reading the Tanakh itself) that early Jews were NOT monotheistic but rather HENOTHEISTIC, and the opening to this article needs to reflect that. Wikipedia already has a fine article on the subject here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.170.134.65 ( talk) 22:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
For some reason, Firefox is only showing the first 6 pages in Print Preview, however with other pages it is alright. This occurs on the main article as well as print preview. Could this be some sort of encoding error?-- CableModem^^ ( talk) 13:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)