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I propose to add a link concerning orthodox jews [1]
ADD Me being a vehement anti zionist-- Shaul avrom 00:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
NK are about as fringe as you can get, and do not deserve mention on this page, b'ch'lal u'ch'lal -- Avi 01:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
NK is only "fringe" in the West and among Modern Orthodox on down (in terms of Religiosity.) In Haredi Judaism, the Aggudists dont like them but consider them G-d fearing as per Aaron Kotler and the Steipler Gaon's instructions; the other non-Zionists just count them peers or heroes. When I was in Uman on ROsh HaShanah, Moshe Braun, second to the top in America's Neturei Karta,was shliakh tzibor at the Rav Aaron Satmar synagogue. This was the day after they had met with Iran's President in NY. Not to be out done in over the top support, Rav Zalman-Leib's Satmar tent blasted the Neturei Karta anthem in a loop for four hours on Motzei Rosh Hashana. Certainly Iran's 26,000 Jews view NK as protectors since they are the only foreign Jews with the ability to reach them and provide aid in various ways when necessary. 88.154.162.106 08:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
The page says that it was protected because of a dispute, but I don't see any substantive dispute meriting protection. If the issue is just vandalism, I would think that semi-protection would be more appropriate. If it must be fully protected because of vandalism, shouldn't it use {{ vprotect}} rather than a template that falsely suggests a substantive dispute? - Jmabel | Talk 22:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
So... it's protected. But can we please get consensual agreement to remove an outright falsehood:
Less drastically, but I hope we could still get consensus to edit:
Also, does anyone understand why "They soon developed oral traditions of their own which differed from the rabbinic traditions, and eventually formed the Karaite sect," was removed? - Jmabel | Talk 22:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Note: This article has a very small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and currently would not pass criteria 2b.
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Agne 22:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Please stop removing the links to Messianic Judaism websites at the bottom of the article, whether the movement is contraversial or not, Messianic Judaism is still Hebrew-centric, Torah-based religion with a majority of ethnically Jewish practitioners, thus making it UNDEBATABLY Jewish under an objective viewpoint.
Or also remove the alternative Humanistic "Judaism" movement as listed at the bottom, a movement that is indistinguishable from culture-centric secular humanism and has nothing to actually do with Torah-based spirituality! Or keep both the Messianic and Humanistic Judaism links at the bottom, just to be fair.
Thank you.
Also, look at the horrendous re-edit Humus Sapiens has done of Alternative Judaism, he places pagan "Judaism" and other tiny movements over Messianic, clearly showing that he despises Messianic Judaism and does not have a NPOV. And noone seems to care, and it is tragic. Please help to reverse his edits.
Would you please sign your posts? (Use ~~~~.) Normally I use {{ unsigned}} to add pseudo sigs, but I'm not going to follow around someone who posts half a dozen times without signing. - Jmabel | Talk 06:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a simple point that is being ignored- no one is claiming that Jews who practice christianity are no longer Jews. Rather, the objection to including Jews for J in this article is because this article is not about Jews! It is about the religion called Judaism; and the one dividing point between Christianity and Judaism over the last two thousand years has been is jesus the Messiah. In fact, the early practitioners of christianity were pretty much exactly like the modern day jews for J!
"If you pray to a deity other than God, or believe in the divinity of an entity other than God, being Jewish is just not possible."
- Messianic Jews pray only to G-d, as Scripture and the oral traditions (Talmud, Mishnah, etc.) demand.
- I hope you understand that the ancient Hebrews were Henotheists (believed that other deities besides G-d could possibly exist). In the Messianic Tradition of Judaism, the heretical notion that Yeshua (The Messiah) is G-d made flesh is rejected. He is the physical embodiment of the Torah and G-d's vigil/word to humankind.
- Are angels divine? According to our Bibles, they are equal parts heat and moisture, fiercly masculine, speak Hebrew, and can teleport. And they are divine, yet physical. Then that is a being other than G-d that is divine. Judaism does not require the belief that G-d is necessarily the only divinity that exists, but that He is the only divinity worth bowing before. "You shall have no other G-ds before me". The Messiah is at the right hand of G-d, something of an embodiment of everything He represents, yet still something infinitely less.
The following, in my belief, is required reading for anyone to make an educated decision about Messianic Judaism:
http://yashanet.com/library/law_1.htm
http://www.rabbiyeshua.com/articles/index.html
Zorkfan 23:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Zorkfan. Dude. These are the qualities that I find in your arguments. Self rightous, unquestioned, unrelenting, fervent belief in your possession of Ultimate Truth. Unwilling to acknowledge the merits of others points; or even to listen to what others have to say. I must say, these are also the same qualities of arguments used by many Jehovah's Witnesses I've had discussions with. I feel that this manner of conversation becomes very boring after a short period of time. Perhaps there is a Messianic Judaism article you can work on? Out, Out foul Troll! 24.2.55.36 16:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Don't you think somebody should translate haredi?
Mraleph 00:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello this is a decent article, I did think the there was a huge gap in the begining of the article but I fixed it. There seems however that the article is too big. Any one else agree with me on this one. The Hinduism article is starting to take shape, but even it is still too big. -- Sea dog .M.S 00:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Might it be wiser to not spell out God, but rather write G-d so as not to offend more orthodox Jews?
I usually write G-d, but I am not offended by the full spelling. BTW, halachically speaking, CRT and LCD screens are not considered kesiva (they are optical illusions caused by excited phosphors or charged liquid crystals) so there is no issue of mechikas HaShaym to worry about. Rabosai, a bissle saychel here, please . -- Avi 03:10, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Okay, time to play "offend the frummers" time. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. Yahweh. And a nice big Yahoo to you too. ;-) 204.52.215.107 06:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC) ok, how about "God"?
Well, don't forget the fact that someone can print the page and then discard the name of G-d. Most Orthodox, Conservative, and Messianic Jews write G-d (or preferably, haShem), just to be safe. Writing G-d is just another way to revere his name. Btw, anonymous, you can attempt to pronounce the name of G-d all you want, but it is in vain. The true pronunciation has been lost to history, and this is discounting the possiblility that it is impossible for a human being to correctly pronounce the name of G-d, thus bastardizing it. Yeshua = Messiah! Shalom. 12.64.84.97 01:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Let's face it, God in English is called "God". That's how the concept came over to English - not YHWH, Yahweh, Yahoo, Ba'al, Allah, Ahura Mazda, HaShem, Eloheime, Elohim, Elohaynu, or Eloi (or G-d for that matter) - God. Or Goddess, if one is of feminizing-the-divine bent. Most Anglophones will understand the concept of God as "God". 204.52.215.107 05:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, for those insisting that "G-d" is a "trap" to think it is a name. Indeed, it is not specifically one of His names - that is, from translation from Hebrew, there that is not His name. However, G-d (note the capital 'G') is used to differenciate between Judaism and montheism and 'other' gods (note the lower case 'g'). In either case, why does one use a hyphen? It's called a level of respect. That is that one should not use G-d's name in vein and this is a means of avoiding just that. If others cannot appreciate or respect that - and it has nothing to do with being Orthodox or not - than they who have said issues do not need to mention G-d in their writings on these pages. Seems like a simple, fair compromise to me - unless, of course, said people can respect others. Mike Isenberg 17:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
'God' is the English word for the role and position of the creator and is the equivalent of the hebrew word 'elohim' used throughout the pentateuch and holy scripture. It identifies his supremacy and his position of authority and gives weight to his counsel. He is above all Kings and earthly rulers and human governments. Given that there have been, and still are, many different gods worshipped, the god of the Jews told them his personal name, which has been recorded in Hebrew scripture in the letter form of the tetragrammaton. The tetragrammaton is used thousands of times in Scripture. It is not a translation of elohim, but it is additional information, his personal name which uniquely identifies HIM as the god of the Jews and the god/creator of the universe/the earth/humankind etc.. So 'god' isn't a name, it is a title. "We should not take the name of xxxx in vain"-Exodus 20. "We should call upon the name of xxxx"-Psalm 105. "We should make his name known among the nations"-Exodus 9. In time "the gentiles/nations will have to know that he is xxxx" -Ezekiel. -- 87.114.151.202 ( talk) 13:04, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
An editor called Hkelkar insists on adding the large template for Jews and Judaism to a small article on Nadira, a recently deceased actress who was once a star in Bollywood movies. She was born into a Baghdadi Jewish family, but she seems not to have been a practicing Jew and she was certainly not identified in any way with Judaism in her film career. The article identifies her as Jewish and links to the proper articles; there's absolutely no need for the template, which is about the same size as the article. I removed the template once and Hkelkar immediately restored it, on the grounds that she was a JEW, therefore the template must be displayed.
Hkelkar seems to identify himself as a Jew and he might be more receptive to counsel from other Jewish editors. Please ask him to desist from this silly provocation. Zora 06:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I reverted a recent edit because it opens a can of worms unnecessarily in the first paragraph. The first paragraph should be as straightforwward as possible. The subject of the first sentence is "Judaism" and the sentence as stands is accurate - Judaism is the religion of the Jews, not of any other people. The subject of the sentence is Judaism, not jews. If one wants to say something about the Jews and their belief, fine, but that is more appropriate to the first paragraph of the article on Jews. Obvious the two are related and I have no objection to a section later in this article explaining that not all Jews adhere to Judaism. But then one needs to say more about the complex relationship between being Jewish and Judaism - and this belongs in a section in the body of the article, not up top. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a dispute as to whether this should say "the first recorded monotheistic faith" or "one of the first…". I think the latter. I see that the person who changed this says that the monothestic worship of Aten was influenced by what he terms yiddishkeit. I'm unaware of any scholarship firmly establishing which came first. Certainly Freud, in Moses and Monotheism, made the case that Jewish monotheism derives from the worship of Aten. I know that there are scholars who think he was right, and scholars who think he was wrong, but I have no idea if the balance comes down clearly on one side or the other.
I suspect someone working on this would know a lot more than I do. Can anyone point to some good sources on this? - Jmabel | Talk 20:06, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't mean to be wishy washy, but could you phrase it as "one of the first, if not the first"? That would correctly convey that there are multiple points of view as to this question.
Is there a reason protection was removed from this page? It's definitely a target, as evidenced by the rapid-fire vandalism yesterday evening. -- Tuvok^ Talk| Desk| Contribs 09:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
So what is the chief rabbi and the rabbinate and the rabbinical courts? From what I have read, they are comparable to to the Catholic Pope, the college of cardinals and the ecclesiastical courts.
Chief Rabbinate of Israel "The Chief Rabbinate of Israel is the supreme Jewish religious governing body in the state of Israel. The Rabbinate is the halakhic authority for the state, and controls many aspects of life in the Jewish state. Issues under the jurisdiction of the Chief Rabbinate include Jewish marriages, Jewish divorce, Jewish burrials, Kashrut and kosher certification, olim, supervision of Jewish holy sites, working with various mikvot and yeshivot, and overseeing Israeli religious courts."
Sounds like a central authority to me.
I have also read that the Israeli rabbinate operates courts in russia.
I know that the pope is elected by the cardinals and the pope appoints the cardinals. But the corresponding info about the rabbinate & the chief rabbi seems to be a deep dark secret.
Is there some sort of taboo in judaism about mentioning this organisation? "the eleventh-largest organized religion" ? Anyway, I will delete the stuff in the title above unless someone explains how the rabbinate, etc, is not a central authority.
24.64.165.176 06:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Israel's chief rabbi (it has two) is nothing like the pope. He's the puppet for a secular government. Nobody takes anything he says seriously. The same with the rabbinut. The Israeli government runs it, and by law there you have to see them if you want to be married, but nobody takes them seriously and they are a big joke amongst the religious. Nobody who tries to eat kosher eats the food they mark kosher. If you ask any faithful Jew who they respect more, the Ashkenai Chief Rabbi of Israel, or the Brisker Rav, President of the Eidah Charedis, they are all going to say the Brisker Rav. 88.154.162.106 08:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
For anyone who is interested, there is a draft of a new article, Religious views on masturbation, at User:CyberAnth/Religious views on masturbation. Please feel free to expand the draft, especially the section User:CyberAnth/Religious views on masturbation#Judaism! After it looks good on user space, it can be posted on to article space. CyberAnth 08:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC)