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The section on Mattis' appointment to U.S. Central Command states, "According to Leon Panetta, the Obama administration did not place much trust in Mattis because he was perceived as too eager for a military confrontation with Iran."
This is clearly editorializing. Not only that, the claim that Mattis was not trusted because the Obama administration thought he was too much of a warmonger is contradicted by the fact that he was appointed by Pres. Obama to lead two wars.
But according to GrandMaster Editor Muboshgu it's totally fine because it's clearly noted as "According to Panetta." Well, golly, I guess we can just add anyone's opinion about what they think someone else's opinion is about Mattis. You know...as long as we say who it's "According to," right?
Again, this is an editorial, clearly political biased comment and in the context it's given does not belong in this biographical article. I would think that someone who claims to be a "Grandmaster Editor" would realize that distinction. It seems like a lot of people are more concerned about pushing their personal point of views into many Wikipedia articles than the integrity of those articles.
39.7.53.216 ( talk) 03:27, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
Where did Mattis serve in Vietnam? If he enlisted at 19 in 1969, it would have been difficult for him to avoid Vietnam, and as a future careerist he wouldn't have wanted to avoid it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.233.118 ( talk) 15:42, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone know his date of birth? I've had a look on the internet, but can't find anything. Palefire 08:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
What I do know is that his date of birth as reported (Sept 8, 1950) is incorrect even though it is cited from a transcript of a Congressional Hearing. The transcript is wrong. Further research should be done by the person who insists on publishing that date. Mark Walker, and the management at The North County Times in San Diego have an audio recording published online(and since taken down) on June 19, 2007 where Mattis states that he is 57 on that day. If he was born on Sept 8, 1950 he would have said he was 56. The person who insists upon publishing incorrect data won't go to the trouble to research this thoroughly, he depends on one source only, believing that source to be indisputable. I have a copy of the audio file(s)I speak of. The North County Times will probably release or sell for a small price said audio file(s) to anyone who wants to do thorough research (North County Times Newsroom 760-740-5425).
Also, Mattis' Mandatory Retirement Date (MRD) as reported in the same congressional transcript says "MRD: 1 July 12." That date also supports his birth date being in mid-June 1950. Mandatory retirement age is 62. If he had been born on Sept 8, 1950 he would only be 61 on the MRD reported. The transcript is wrong. The research is incomplete.
SamWest314 Samwest314 ( talk) 15:57, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
I reverted this edit.
Cheers! -- Geo Swan 03:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
In this edit another wikipedian removed the bulk of a paragraph with the edit summary: "rm outright lie"
Pantano did empty two magazines into his unarmed prisoners. Pantano did scrawl Mattis's slogan over the corpses. So I restored the passage.
Cheers! — Geo Swan 04:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
This sentence is opinion, not fact, and it's vague to boot: "Reaction to Mattis' comments aside, however, the General has displayed a deep understanding of the nature of war, an understanding often lost on those of similar rank." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.5.88 ( talk) 01:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
"bloodthirsty and widely seen as disgustingly racist comments aside" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.9.147.14 ( talk) 02:21, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
About Oct 2008, an anon added the légion d'honneur to the list of Mattis's awards. Recently, another anon felt the need to remove it. I'm really not sure who is right, and so far, there is no evidence to show that he was actually a recipient of the award. However, I have undone the removal because it messed up the table a bit. Can anyone else find a ref for this French award being given to Mattis? If not, I'll remove it in a few weeks or so. bahamut0013 words deeds 11:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I removed the line about his upcoming portrayal by Harrison Ford, as the reference was from Dec. 2004 and there is no entry about this on Mr. Ford's imdb page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.5.82 ( talk) 21:27, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
I have now multiple times removed content about people trying to ascribe political aspirations to the subject. Take a look at the sources: Townhall.com, Daily Caller, and Lifezette. Lifezette isn't a reliable source so that can be thrown out but even so, it's the same as the others. This politics season you have a lot of hack writers trying to fill inches on magazines and websites. No political candidate has named Mattis for anything. Mattis himself hasn't said he's going to run for anything. These websites are just part of the echo chamber of the hopeful audience trying to put Mattis into the political arena. None of this content belongs. Anyone that disagrees need to consider reading these websites critically. Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:32, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Any explanation as to why he didn't serve in Viet Nam? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.43.173 ( talk) 21:40, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Assumption: he entered service in 1969; by the time he was in a position to be assigned there, the USMC had drawn down their commitment significantly. It appears, reading between the lines, that the earliest he might have served there was 1972, by which time the Marines were pretty much out of straight combat roles, and were limited to scattered advisory roles, and support in Saigon. Probably just luck of the draw, and nothing more, is my guess. LiberTarHeel ( talk) 00:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Those of us who were draftees were "in a position" to serve in Vietnam 5 months after entry into the military. So a person who wanted a military career could certainly have gotten into combat just as quickly as those who didn't even want to be in the military. Which leaves the question (not a partisan one) why he didn't serve in the biggest war of his lifetime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.233.118 ( talk) 22:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
LiberTarHeel ( talk) 23:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)It appears that Mattis' appointment as SecDef is not a fact at all. I would suggest either removing it or at least wording it to read more like the rumor that it appears to be. His Press Sec has issued a statement that's pretty definitive in this regard.
Not to be confused with Fraud Waste and Abuse - a former 4 star speakers bureau with many Wikipedia articles ( FWA) but none reflecting http://fwaconsultants.homestead.com - in lieu of an article some explanation might be appropriate in this article. - 173.20.148.109 ( talk) 04:24, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Washington Post recently detailed Mattis' views on political Islam or well at the least questioning it as useful to USA. I wonder why no one has added it here. 27.255.221.131 ( talk) 09:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
There is a recent controversy over whether Mattis approves of being called "Jim." My argument is that this was a one time instance, occurring only since his nomination for SecDef and will show to be incorrect over time. People's names don't change just because the press published it that way for one or two days. Not every person named "James" likes to be refered to by the nick-name "Jim" and, until Mattis' official biography changes to such, it should not be included here.-- KMJKWhite ( talk) 13:31, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Mattis has been confirmed, but hasn't yet been sworn in. Therefore he's (for the moment) Secretary of Defense-designate. GoodDay ( talk) 22:19, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
The information regarding the awards and decorations does not match those on the most recent photo's of General mantis in uniform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.51.121.171 ( talk) 07:34, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Intro is hard to read, especially 2nd para. "Before" with "previously" in the same sentence is redundant. Grammar surgeon required, stat. Sadsaque ( talk) 15:36, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Quotations are used in a full name to denote a colloquial or nickname. The inclusion of "Mad Dog" seems to me as below encyclopedic standards, and is especially not appropriate for a Cabinet official and employee of the United States federal government. This should be omitted. Frevangelion ( talk) 04:39, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
So can we mention that his radio call sign is CHAOS (Colonel Has An Outstanding Solution), and that he once said that the media made up the "mad dog" moniker?
I used to think it was something he was known as, but recent news article (and or Mattis statements) make me think it was just a recent thing - maybe just a media/headline thing. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 20:57, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mad Dog Matis (disc jockey) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 19:31, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
I believe there are a few too many low-value images on this page. Per the Manual of Style, "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative." Some images on this page add little value, perhaps even to being a distraction, given the article's current content. I'm not one to just jump in and start deleting images without addressing my concern. I would not object to keeping them, if someone who does recognize their value would add relative discussion to the article. Unless that happens, I propose the following images be removed from the article (caption shown):
I'm open minded to different viewpoints. If anyone objects to deleting any of these, please discuss below. Thank you, KMJKWhite ( talk) 14:18, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
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He's referred to as such on his official Department of Defense profile [4] and all major news stories including the New York Times [5], the Wall Street Journal [6], the Washington Post [7], the Telegraph [8], Boston Globe [9], the Huffington Post [10], and POLITICO [11]. I'm going to go ahead and move it again. If anyone has any objections, please voice them below.-- Certified Gangsta ( talk) 15:33, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
"...and will request both a checkuser investigation and a gathering of behavioral evidence shortly."Please do. You have no idea how much fun that would be. Yes, the whole world is arrayed in a conspiracy against you, because the fact that everyone seems to take issue with you cannot possibly be your fault. There's absolutely no good reason why a move that you made without consensus is suddenly opposed by other editors. Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:34, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: page moved. Mahveotm ( talk) 21:24, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
James Mattis →
Jim Mattis – The discussion above that petered out a couple of weeks ago showed eight sources referring to the subject as "Jim Mattis" but none showing "James Mattis":
WP:COMMONNAME seems to be the appropriate policy here: Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of
independent, reliable English-language sources)
. The criteria that
Wikipedia:Article titles requires us to consider are: recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness, and consistency. The last three apply equally to "Jim Mattis" and "James Mattis". A Google search for "Jim Mattis" yields 1,180,000 Ghits and "James Mattis" produces 637,000, so there is not a huge preponderance in favour of "Jim" and both are clearly recognisable. That leaves us to make the decision based on naturalness, which would be the one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles
, according to
WP:AT.
I see both names in the sources used in our article, and I suspect that either one would be an acceptable title for the page, but I think it's sensible to acknowledge that fact, and try to reach a consensus on which name is the best fit to our policies. At the moment, I'm favouring the move to Jim Mattis, which seems to have more recent sources and Ghits. -- RexxS ( talk) 16:48, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
@ Muboshgu: thanks for your correction of my edit. Would it be better, in accordance with WP:NICKNAME, to say "James Norman Mattis, also known as Jim Mattis, [...]"? -- Jak525 ( talk) 01:25, Saturday, December 2, 2017 (UTC)
William Frederick "Buffalo Bill" Cody .... Our article on John Wayne does indeed start with
Marion Mitchell Morrison (born Marion Robert Morrison; May 26, 1907 – June 11, 1979), known professionally as John Wayne and nicknamed Duke ....
IMO the lede should have one sentence, or at most two, about his resignation, with the details being under "Tenure". Earlier today I reduced it from two sentences to one, leaving this:
On December 19 Trump announced via Twitter that he would order the immediate withdrawal of American troops from Syria; after trying unsuccessfully to get Trump to reconsider, Mattis submitted his resignation. [1] [2]
Sources
- ^ O'Brien, Connor; Bender, Brien (December 20, 2018). "Mattis breaks with Trump in resignation letter". POLITICO. Retrieved December 20, 2018.
- ^ Cooper, Helene (December 23, 2018). "Trump, Angry Over Mattis's Rebuke, Removes Him 2 Months Early". Retrieved December 23, 2018 – via NYTimes.com.
But then User:ZiplineWhy added more info so it is now a full paragraph:
In an "unprecendented" [1] resignation on December 21, after substantial disagreement with the foreign policy of the Donald Trump administration, Mattis openly criticized the foreign policy views of Donald Trump. [2] In his letter of resignation, Mattis warned that the worldview of Donald Trump is leading to an immense decline in the United States standing, undercutting the "the global order the United States helped build over the past seven decades." [1] In response, Trump personally insulted Mattis on Twitter and ordered him fired by January 1st, 2 months before his planned resignation. [3]
Sources
- ^ a b Rucker, Philip (December 22, 2018). "'A rogue presidency': The era of containing Trump is over". The Washington Post. Retrieved December 23, 2018.
{{ cite web}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter:|dead-url=
( help)- ^ Cooper, Helene (December 23, 2018). "Trump, Angry Over Mattis's Rebuke, Removes Him 2 Months Early". Retrieved December 23, 2018 – via NYTimes.com.
- ^ Cooper, Helene (December 23, 2018). "Trump, Angry Over Mattis's Rebuke, Removes Him 2 Months Early". Retrieved December 23, 2018 – via NYTimes.com.
To me this is overkill, violating the spirit of what a WP:Lead section is supposed to be like, namely, a brief summary of the main points in the article. All of this information is certainly worth including, but in the body of the text, not the lead. What do others think? BTW let's agree on an approach and wording here, leaving it as it is until we reach consensus. -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:29, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
soibangla ( talk) 22:54, 23 December 2018 (UTC)On December 20, 2018, Mattis submitted his resignation, effective February 28, 2019, after failing to persuade Trump to reconsider his decision of the previous day to withdraw the remaining American troops from Syria. On December 23, 2018, Trump accelerated Mattis’s departure date to January 1, after becoming angered by the language of his resignation letter, which was critical of Trump’s worldview.
It should be mentioned in the article that Mattis himself never fired a shot. He was just a commander who ordered others into combat. 47.201.182.47 ( talk) 13:37, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jim_Mattis&diff=914254299&oldid=914244448 soibangla ( talk) 17:16, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
The article sourced for James Mattis’s net worth doesn’t mention him . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:0:80D:0:0:0:AC ( talk) 21:05, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
In the 2nd line of the 2nd paragraph (as of 10-22-19), "A career Marine, he gained a reputation among his peers for 'anti-intellectualism', and eventually advanced to the rank of general.", it is implying Mattis's support for "anti-intellectualism". However, this appears to contradict more detailed descriptions of his military career further into the article. Second line of the 2nd paragraph under "Military Career", "He is noted for his interest in the study of military history and world history, with a personal library that once included over 7,000 volumes, and a penchant for publishing required reading lists for Marines under his command." is a cited statement implying the opposite of the uncited description in the introduction. Would it be possible to revise? Thanks.
-- Redfactor4 ( talk) 13:07, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
I went and added the appropriate line breaks to match Mattis's statement and removed the reference to media. In my edits notes I also suggested that the full statement did not belong in the biography but deserved a mention. Yet the entire edit I made was removed. How best should we add Mattis's rebuke of Trump policies.
I tried to address the last reversions edits and summarize rthe posts...Having a bit of WikimMdia markup issues on the citations. Feedback and edits welcome. Jgmac1106 ( talk) 00:16, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under the heading Military career -> US Central Command, please remove the line:
"Mattis announced his retirement from the Marine Corps in April 2012, effective in a matter of months.[64] Eight months later, the Defense Department nominated General Lloyd Austin to succeed Mattis, who retired in March 2013"
and replace with:
"In December 2013, the Defense Department nominated General Lloyd Austin to succeed Mattis, who retired in March 2013"
The line about Mattis announcing his retirement in April 2012 is incorrect. The citation is from a satire blog. Foodhi ( talk) 04:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
The edit as written implies that Mattis made the decision to retire and then a replacement was announced. There is speculation that the announcement of a replacement in December 2012 came as a surprise to Mattis and that his March 2013 retirement was forced. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foodhi ( talk • contribs) 04:58, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
References
Aside from the 1 WaPo article I can find no attribution for this claim and no statements made by the man himself. Can this be established? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:153:600:FD40:2C44:3661:D7A6:742C ( talk) 19:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
https://news.yahoo.com/mattis-told-then-dni-coats-201720573.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20vc2VhcmNoP3E9bWF0dGlzJTIwbmF0aW9uYWwlMjBjYXRoZWRyYWwmcXM9biZmb3JtPVFCUkUmc3A9LTEmcHE9JnNjPTAtMCZzaz0mY3ZpZD1GREY0QkQwNEEzRTY0QzUzOUIyMzg2RTJGNTc4Mzc1Ng&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIbSXNTwPWH_IUgIJ-Hs4lI3nnf36C76Mufk2mhCubREkokRMz6yDdWlGd9Fxf1CiP2bfntTzNiESZYz3L_P0IvfwB8LQFw7kc4mInr0EcU18zZNaHwo7MaKhJd4LALQNie8PzRkpJcdsitfy2R7_tZXj_ccBwNv--pFDhIekgeX this article mentions him praying at the National Cathedral, which is Episcopalian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 6.50.20.212 ( talk) 23:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
Someone needs to write that in Team Fortress 2, Sniper, in his introduction video Meet the Sniper, quotes Mattis when he says "Be polite, be efficient, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet." This is almost perfect, as Mattis originally said, "but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." Stick-Destiny ( talk) 16:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)