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Requested move 28 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus has emerged that the current arrangement is in accordance with WP:TITLE. Bradv 21:35, 6 December 2016 (UTC) reply

– MOS:COMMA. Commas are required "In geographical references that include multiple levels of subordinate divisions (e.g., city, state/province, country)." Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 08:12, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply

@ Mark Schierbecker: Please provide an exert from the article title policy that you are relying upon for this proposed move. Thanks. Mitchumch ( talk) 08:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
Hello. Yes, happily. See edited comment above. Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 08:28, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
@ Mark Schierbecker: Sorry about that. Somehow, I did not see that. Your reference appears to apply to usage within the article body, not article title. The bot box listed above states, "Please base arguments on article title policy". Mitchumch ( talk) 08:49, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
No worries. Actually I edited after you @mentioned me. From the thousands of page moves, CfDs and RMs I've participated in over the years, it would seem that MOS would apply doubly to article titles. Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 08:55, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Support – though it would be conventional to just fix such grammatical errors rather than discussing them. Dicklyon ( talk) 08:58, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
I agree. But I feel better about potentially having a wider discussion about the policy, as probably better than half of article titles don't have a comma after the state. Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 09:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Support - It certainly makes sense from a grammatical standpoint. Parsley Man ( talk) 16:34, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply

Note: the creator of El Paso, Texas city elections, 2017 moved the article to the suggested title shortly after I opened this move request. Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 17:48, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply

@ Mark Schierbecker: I have now reverted the premature move of El Paso, Texas city elections, 2017 to El Paso, Texas, city elections, 2017. GeoffreyT2000 ( talk, contribs) 17:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Support: per MOS:COMMA. Ebonelm ( talk) 18:41, 28 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose all per long debates at MOS:COMMA, compromise for US metro areas at WP:USPLACE and Talk:Rochester, New York metropolitan area etc. These are titles, not running text, so it is incorrect and doesn't follow common usage to put an extra comma after the state name. A move of this nature was attempted twice at Talk:Rochester metropolitan area, New York/Archives/2013, and was rejected both times - eventually we found a much better compromise for that one and similar, that avoided that horrendous commafest, and perhaps we should try to do the same here.  —  Amakuru ( talk) 14:10, 29 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose basically per Amakuru and the previous Rochester RMs. This is unnecessary and not reader-friendly. Dohn joe ( talk) 14:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC) reply
  • Oppose - Amakuru's suggestion is better on the eyes → Columbus mayoral election, Ohio 2015. @ Amakuru Let me know if I misunderstood you. Mitchumch ( talk) 16:00, 30 November 2016 (UTC) reply
    Well actually I didn't really make a concrete proposal - it's tricky as we can't apply the Rochester model directly due to the presence of the year identifier as well. Probably your suggestion is almost good enough, although I'm a little uneasy about the "Ohio 2015" part. Probably we do need a comma there to give us Columbus mayoral election, Ohio, 2015 which at least is one comma fewer than the mouthful proposed above. On another note, at least in the case of Columbus, I think it's questionable whether we need the state on this article at all. We include it on the main article Columbus, Ohio, because of WP:USPLACE etc. and because it's ambiguous with Christopher Columbus, but that need not apply to subpages. In particular, I don't think we have articles on mayoral elections for any of the other Columbus localities, which means that Columbus mayoral election, 2015 would be perfectly adequate for this one and solve all issues. This wouldn't apply to Portland though, since there are two prominent examples there. So in summary, I think my preferred option would be Columbus mayoral election, 2015; Peoria mayoral election, 2013; and Portland mayoral election, Oregon, 2015. What think you? Thanks  —  Amakuru ( talk) 19:48, 30 November 2016 (UTC) reply
    I prefer using the main article disambiguation for all subpages - except for subpages of Phoenix, Arizona, which is a USPLACE exception. Articles which are unambiguously about a place called "Phoenix" do not need a statename qualifier. Mark Schierbecker ( talk) 22:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC) reply
@ Amakuru: I would oppose article titles without the inclusion of state names. There are 19 localities designated as Columbus - see Columbus#Places. Creating article titles that are not ambiguous the first time is better. Portland mayoral election, Oregon, 2015 is also fine. Leaving the article titles as they are now is preferable. Mitchumch ( talk) 08:49, 4 December 2016 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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