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We are not treating any of the wider urban areas as a single unit (cf. Cardiff Urban Area and Swansea Urban Area) so there's no case to treat Wrexham any differently. Maybe this uncertainty is partly my fault for moving the page to "List of urban areas in Wales by population"; I will move it again to "List of settlements in Wales by population" if that's helpful. There is a lot of confusion between the ONS jargon of settlements, urban areas and urban subdivisions; I *think* that settlement is actually an exclusively Scottish and Northern Irish term, with the less intuitive urban subdivision applying in England and Wales, but given the use of List of largest United Kingdom settlements by population I think it should be OK here. Pondle ( talk) 17:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the data-set selected in its current form is particularly useful for comparing the populations of settlements in Wales. If you look in National Statistics' glossary [1], you'll find the definition of "Urban subdivisions":
Unfortunately in certain parts of Wales the local government boundaries pre-1974 did not reflect the settlement pattern having changed from rural to urban as a result of the Industrial Revolution. This results in several anomalies in the data-set, for instance:
I could go on, but those are the obvious problem entries above 15,000. Roughly one settlement in five in this sample is in some way misleading. The bigger problem is that there is no dataset that shows what we want. Urban areas are even more prone to grasping places with tendrils (Neath (8), for instance, disappears into Swansea (2)). Communities are extremely variable and inevitably include rural areas, not to mention the fact that there are no communities called Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, and Wrecsam.
I really don't know what to suggest. There is some use for this article, so I don't want to propose deletion. It would clearly be original research to try to remedy the massive flaws in the dataset. Would somehow noting the flaws be something that could gain consensus? 𝐨𝐱𝐲𝐩𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐵𝑈𝑇𝐴𝑍𝑂𝑁𝐸 Ⓤ Ⓣ 19:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Urban subdivisions are probably the least understood (and so most contentious on Wikipedia) ONS census dataset, and especially their link to pre-1974 local government units. There have been many claims on Wikipedia that they're simply recycling pre-1974 units, which is false. What is true is that within conurbations, the boundaries between urban subdivisions usually follow the pre-1974 boundaries, simply because post-1974 many towns lost their individual identity as far as local government was concerned. Outside conurbations, the ONS use the 200m land use rule to identify individual settlements - and where two settlements were part of the same pre-1974 local authority, and were linked at the time of the 1981 census, then you get the strange Mountain Ash / Abercynon type naming convention, as neither has primacy over the other and it's impossible to separate them as there's no pre-existing boundary to use. Where settlements have expanded into former rural areas from the previous census (or in the 1981 census into former Rural Districts), then those areas are considered to be part of the settlement.
As it happens, Mountain Ash/Abercynon isn't particularly dumb-bell shaped, but is more of a linear form. Fingerpuppet ( talk) 21:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
This list makes no sense whatsoever. It includes Blackwood within Newport - and then it includes Blackwood on its own!!! As it is, the Welsh Government has made provided a definitive list of settlements over 2000 population in 2011 as part of the Active Travel Act. Let's use that instead. 81.170.88.138 ( talk) 19:50, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
It does make sense. This is a list of built up areas and built up area sub divisions from the ONS' census database. If you'd like to add a column specifying if the area is built up (e.g. Newport) or a built up subdivision (e.g. Blackwood) then go right ahead. But as far as population data goes, the Census is the primary source for UK demographic data. The Welsh Government's Active Travel Act report is far too detached to be suitable. Llemiles ( talk) 23:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Nefyn article has this: Nefyn is a small town and community on the north west coast of the Llŷn Peninsula in Gwynedd, Wales, with a population of 2,619.
Still, it is missing from the list. Is there a reason it doesn't belong on the list, or does it belong to some other entry?
85.217.46.52 (
talk) 21:49, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
And, List of largest United Kingdom settlements by population has "Rhondda" at position #140 with population of 59,602. It is missing from this list. Reason? 85.217.46.52 ( talk) 21:54, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Parts of larger urban areas which are mostly in England are missing from this list also notably Saltney and Broughton, Flintshire. Also Nefyn's population of 2,619 is the population of the parish not the urban area which this list uses. This article's source doesn't mention Nefyn at all. They also have maps of these on the ONS website with the urban areas on them and Nefyn isnt on their either (I checked in case it was listed under a different name). Eopsid ( talk) 18:44, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Hmm, how about Rhondda then? Still not in the list. However, some cities/towns from its area (Rhondda Cynon Taf) are on the list. Don't know if it is the same because there are additional words, Cynon & Taf. 85.217.44.150 ( talk) 02:06, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi there! Your list seems to be missing a position in that the table goes straight from:
39 Carmarthen 14,648 Carmarthenshire
to:
41 Abergavenny 14,055 Monmouthshire.
Is there actually a missing town or is it just that someone can't count? :-)
Or perhaps I'm blindly overlooking something else which makes this gap okay (it's been known to happen!) All the best -- ThunderingTyphoons! ( talk) 10:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Inspired by an "Only connect" question (at about 13:00), I am looking for a list of Welsh cities, and can't find it. Could a "city" flag simply be added to the relevant entries? Or is there something extra special about cities in Wales? I am somewhat gobsmacked to learn that Swansea became a city only in 1969, and that the village of St. Asaph is now a city(?!) Imaginatorium ( talk) 06:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
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I'm a bit concerned how this article uses multiple definitions of built-up area. The 2021 census and 2011 census use the same name for two different concepts. This article shows both which makes it a bit of a muddle. Eopsid ( talk) 09:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)