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![]() | On 24 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Conservative libertarianism. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
When I have a chance I'm going through the references to see if they confirm statements made. And you better come up with evidence every one of those individuals listed every called themselves a libertarian conservative. Starting with Lew Rockwell who denies it in the beginning of the article first referenced.
Where's the article on all those Liberal Libertarians who want massive government controls but are social liberals and antiwar. In fact where is antiwar? Needless to say this article needs a criticism section on why anyone who DOES call themselves a libertarian conservative is not a libertarian at all. Carol Moore 18:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}
Here are some simple definitions from my civics textbook. “Libertarian: One who favors a free market economy and no governmental interference in personal liberties.” - “Conservative: One thought to believe that a government is best that governs least and that big government can only infringe on individual, personal, and economic rights.” So how exactly are these conflicting ideologies? They seem pretty compatible to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.7.146 ( talk) 16:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Removing all the material that is not reflected in references and obviously is original research. Leaving only accurate sourced material and adding enough more to make the article make sense and be accurate. However, I will be deleting the list of alleged "libertarian conservatives" where no one supplies and I don't find evidence individuals actually call themselves by that description, per WP:BLP. Carol Moore 23:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}
Libertarian Party says they are not conservatives. http://www.lp.org/faq says "Are Libertarians liberal or conservative?
Libertarians are neither. Unlike liberals or conservatives, Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty." 71.131.5.113 ( talk) 18:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a difference between big "L" Libertarians (i.e., the Libertarian Party) and small "l" libertarians, which is a political philosophy. Small "l" libertarians (of which I consider myself one) oftem have nothing to do with the Libertarian Party, but they may. Personally, I find nothing wrong with the premise of the article. Many libertarians (such as me) coinsider themselves also "conservatives" under the principle of fusionism. That concensus is breaking, but it is still there. -- Amcalabrese ( talk) 20:21, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Libertarians support very small government. Also, prostitution and victimless crimes like marijuana are proposed to be legalized by libertarians. Conservatives are "family values" oriented and would never legalize any of these things. By definition, these 2 groups are complete opposites and there is no fusion possible. I have never heard of this big "L" and little "l" libertarians and seems to not be part of any libertarian group I have met or read about, so maybe it is a conservative Republican issue. 71.131.19.214 ( talk) 00:09, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
On the above paragraph, I'm a "Family Values" Conservative and have no problem with legalizing marijuana as long as the law which does so has two prongs: 1) Marijuana is now legal and to be available, regulated, and taxed as alcohol is, and 2) If someone abuses the privilege and becomes a complete waste of a human being as a result, the rest of us are free to walk past as he lays in the gutter without any legal responsibility to aid him. Voluntary assistance is of course at one's own liberty. So as you see, the assumptions made by the paragragh in question are largely incorrect. Additionally, I think homosexuality is repulsive and disgusting, but who cares if two folks choose to engage in it? As long as I am not forced to recognize or acknowledge it as I lead my life, then more power to 'em. So again, conservative+libertarian. Liberals, on the other hand, make no room for objection of conscience. You MUST recognize such lifestyles, or you are labeled "irrational" and "afraid" of it. It is Liberalism and Libertarianism which are incompatible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stormvet ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
While libertarians are neither liberal or conservative, they are, in a way, both. They are liberal in the sense that liberalism means freedom, and in the classical liberalism of Thomas Jefferson and the like. Remember in many countries, liberal means less intervention in the economy. Also, politically conservative can mean conservative in the sense of generally being against government expansion, federal interference in state government, and new government programs. Gtbob12 ( talk) 18:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Libertarian conservatism is todays conservatism. Its small government both socially and economically while preserving values and traditions. Reagan, Goldwater and in th tradition of many of th Founding Fathers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.106.230 ( talk) 02:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
The fusion proposed by some writers is impossible because prostitution and victimless crimes like marijuana are proposed to be legalized by libertarians. Conservatives are "family values" oriented and would never legalize any of these things. 71.131.19.214 ( talk) 00:09, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Technically conservatism is not a set of political beliefs but a reference to traditional political beliefs. In the US the traditional beliefs is classic liberalism therefore conservatism is classic liberalism as well as libertarianism. In Russia a conservative may reference to communism. In Iran conservatism may reference Islam.
I for one am one. I have not nor am I about to edit this article, but for all the Libertarians above who don't understand how this could happen....it mostly boils down to one key issues. Pro-Life vs Pro-choice. (legalization and prostitution are things we'd legalize, they don't affect me, and my government isn't also my church) A Conservative Libertarian believes in social and economic freedom, but still has strong personal religious faith. 75.34.181.107 ( talk) 11:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Thats a broad generalization. I too am a Conservative Libertarian and I'm completely agnostic about religion. Does that render me incapable of being Conservative Libertarian?
Libertarianism boils down to "do whatever you want along as you dont harm others" Libertarian conservatives is a moderate view of that either meaning preserving societies values and traditions or meaning simply a moderate and rational pace and take on issues from the libertarian stance.
I believe there are two types. One, a conservative who wants the government out of their lives as much as possible or two, merely a moderate libertarian.
For example Noam Chomsky has some good criticisms of libertarians,and how people use the word in order to win votes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Conservative = Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
(((If I may interject here, this definition is not completely accurate as applied to politics. I'm a "Conservative" and If I had been alive in 1911 when the airplane came along, I would have SUPPORTED "change" as we made some common-sense regulations of making sure pilots knew what they were doing with those wacky flying machines. So to say we "oppose change" makes us look rather stupid, which to me then introduces a bias in the definition. Conservatives do oppose some changes, but it is done on a "If it is not broke don't fix it" basis, not some ignorant "Augh! Change! Run away!" basis as the above definition suggests. This then leads back into those "traditional" things which have heretofore worked, like the non-acknowledgement of perverted lifestyles and the like. We like these things. They help keep society decent, and worthy of the eys of children. They don't need fixing, in our opinion, and we won't recognize any changes made.)))-Stormvet
This can be taken differently by many different origins. Many people who have posted in this discussion need to take a look at the 'big picture' concept and realize that the definition of conservative might NOT apply to the definition of what is considered American conservatism.-- Melharts85 ( talk) 15:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Isn't libertarian Conservatism in Europe called Liberal Conservatism? -- Novis-M ( talk) 03:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Probably. In the US, liberal has developed a different meaning from what it historically meant, primarily due to people like Franklin Roosevelt. Historically liberal has a closer meaning to how americans use the term libertarian today, but liberal now has a closer meaning to "third way" systems which attempt to integrate capitalist and socialist ideologies, and are collectively oriented, rather than individual oriented as in classical liberalism.
216.160.83.123 (
talk) 21:31, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
About twenty five years ago, there was plainly a difference between those called “libertarian conservative” and those called “conservative libertarian”. Both had a style of presentation and concern of conservatives; both typically had personal histories of conservatism. But the conservative libertarians were actual libertarians — they made every attempt to accept the libertarian notion that one should never initiate what libertarians consider coercion. Libertarian conservatives, on the other hand, were classical liberals but not extreme classical liberals; they felt that there were important exceptions to the non-initiation principle. — SlamDiego ←T 03:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
No one has included phrases that more accurately describe the idea's of Libertarianism. I think it would really add to the article if people contributed quotes that best describes the attitude of all Libertarians.
"Live and Learn." - Anonymous
"I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." - Joseph Smith
"That they (the powers of heaven) may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw• themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved" - Joseph Smith
"I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination. . . . It is a love of liberty which inspires my soul." - Joseph Smith
"All religions must be tolerated... for... every man must get to heaven in his own way." - Epictetus
"God has entrusted me with myself.” - Epictetus
“No man is free who is not a master of himself" - Epictetus
"To accuse others for one's own misfortunes is a sign of want of education. To accuse oneself shows that one's education has begun. To accuse neither oneself nor others shows that one's education is complete." - Epictetus
I have chosen two of my most favorite mortal philosophers and included one well known phrase. I will add to this list later, for the purpose of people becoming educated about how many philosophers advocated a high degree of liberty, at least in respect to a certain part of life.
In all of these articles on politics, philosophy, and religion, there are no phrases that describe the principle concept of individual liberty near or at its purest. I find virtually nothing to inspire people to actually give a flying $h!t about individual liberty...which Wikipedia itself promotes by allowing the common individual to add credible and published information at their leisure.
HerrQuixota-- 174.23.200.192 ( talk) 11:22, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Reading the articles about libertarian conservatism and your fusionism, I have come to a conclusion: these are all different names for liberal conservatism. If there is no opposition, I would like to propose a merger with the aforementioned libertarian concepts as sections under liberal conservatism. 67.183.157.148 ( talk) 10:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article's intro says it means the same thing as right-libertarianism. If it is true that it means the same thing then I support a merger of this article into the right-libertarianism article.-- R-41 ( talk) 01:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Close This has been open for 7 months. I'm going to call this closed as "clearly no consensus to merge". Other questions discussed in this section are now being discussed in other threads, let's continue those there. If anybody disagrees, please reopen this. North8000 ( talk) 13:01, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article be named Conservative Libertarianism because it seems at first to be discussing the libertarian philosophy with conservative leanings and not the other way round. However, the section that lists a number of people seems to list people who are predominantly conservative (with the exception of Ron Paul) but have some libertarian leanings. I also believe that the term Conservative Libertarianism is the formal term.
In a different section I stated the difference between the two terms: ... it should be made clear that a conservative Libertarian is a libertarian with some conservative views (against abortion for example), while a libertarian Conservative is a conservative who has some libertarian views (such as support for the legalization of marijuana). The first (Conservative Libertarianism) is the more serious term that many libertarians (such as myself) use occasionally to be specific about their beliefs. The latter is a term used by conservatives who often don't completely understand what libertarianism is or agree with libertarians but are completely unaligned with the libertarian philosophy. A conservative might say "I am quite a libertarian conservative" or "my views are pretty libertarian" when describing a certain political topic, such as economics. But a libertarian would say "I believe in the conservative libertarian philosophy." In short Conservative Libertarianism is a philosophy (more official) while being a libertarian conservative is not. Harpsichord246 ( talk) 19:57, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
I guess the overall question is whether either 2 word sequence that describes a "blend" is a somewhat recognized term used is a somewhat consistently way. The alternative would be if it is not that and only descriptive (like "big dog" or "red car") I don't know the answer to that question, but believe that that is is the question. North8000 ( talk) 11:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Oppose. Right-libertarianism is a group of libertarian philosophies which are definitely libertarian. "Libertarian conservatism" is a term referring to political philosophies that are sort-of libertarian and sort-of conservative/in the gray area. While there may be overlap between these two, they are distinct. Also, right-libertarianism is a very necessary term to divide libertarianism into 2 clearly distinct groups, while "libertarian conservatism" appears to usually be a term used as a descriptive device for convenience. Byelf2007 ( talk) 17 November 2012
Oppose. Right libertarianism clearly refers to defense of laizzes faire capitalism and of the capitalist class as as such it is a form of right wing politics. Contemporary economic centrism will mostly refer to economic positions close to those of the US Democratic party and the Canadian Liberal Party which is not really pure laizzes faire politics while it also really cannot be said to advocate democratic socialism.-- Eduen ( talk) 02:25, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't have time right now, but just book googling "libertarian conservatism" France I got a couple interesting hits. Try it for a couple other countries, enter the data, and we can get rid of the tag. CarolMooreDC 15:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Deleted from the intro:
If there is a verifiable comment from someone outside of Wikipedia who thinks Libertarian conservatism should not be identified with "right-libertarianism", let's quote them. But not in the first sentence, please. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 15:14, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Johnston, Larry: Politics: An Introduction to the Modern Democratic State. University of Toronto Press, 2007, p. 154-155. 2007 version at this diff shows no evidence he talks about "libertarian conservatism". In fact he talks about "liberal conservatives". While some may consider those libertarians, unless the text calls them libertarian conservatives it's WP:Original research to use it and should be removed. User:Carolmooredc 00:49, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Libertarian Conservatism isn't an actual thing. The proper terminology would be paleo-conservative. Paleo-conservatives are distantly similar to Libertarians but are fundamentally different on key issues. My suggestion is to delete the article or rename it. Libertarians are fundamentally socially progressive liberals... Always have been, always will be. That's an indisputable fact; to reject that, just shows pure ignorance on the part of the rejector.
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An identical copy of this substantial new section has just been placed in at least 5 articles. I think that this is good work that needs to be placed somewhere but placing 5 identical copies in 5 articles seems like a bad idea. Probably we should revert and ask them to just put it it in the most relevant article. BTW I plan to do the same with this post in all of those articles. :-) North8000 ( talk) 23:59, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
What about splitting it? Compare equivalent French article fr:Libertarianisme conservateur. Chicbyaccident ( talk) 19:32, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
The sentence 'However, President Reagan turned the United States' big trade deficit into debt and the United States became a debtor nation for the first time since World War I under the Reagan administration.' seems quite biased (in the way it was said), any chance this can be re-stated? Ech25 ( talk) 17:45, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
This article appears to confuse at least two separate ideologies (though partly related). Just as liberal conservatism and conservative liberalism are two distinct ideologies (despite some overlapping beliefs), so too are libertarian conservatism and conservative libertarianism. Moreover, libertarian conservatism is simply another term for what is liberal conservatism (i.e., conservatism influenced by classical liberalism). The term libertarian conservatism gained more traction in the US and the UK (at least in part because of the inconsistent meaning applied to the word liberal), but it is the same ideology as liberal conservatism, as it is known around the world.
Here is one source that specifically uses them interchangeably. It then contrasts liberal/libertarian conservatism with paternalistic conservatism.
This is the definition of liberal conservatism: "strongly pro-capitalist, asserting the strongest possible relationship between the market economy, individual liberty, and the rule of law." [1]
Indeed, it is virtually identical to other experts describing libertarian conservatism ( [2], see p. 78):
Although conservatism draws heavily upon pre-industrial ideas such as organicism, hierarchy and obligation, the ideology has also been much influenced by liberal ideas, especially classical liberal ideas. This is sometimes seen as a late-twentieth-century development, the new right having in some way 'hijacked' conservatism in the interests of classical liberalism. Nevertheless, liberal doctrines, especially those concerning the free market, have been advanced by conservatives since the late eighteenth century and can be said to constitute a rival tradition to conservative paternalism. These ideas are libertarian in that they advocate the greatest possible economic liberty and the least possible government regulation of social life. Libertarian conservatives have not simply converted to liberalism but believe liberal economics to be compatible with a more traditional, conservative social philosophy, based upon values such as authority and duty. This is evident in the work of Edmund Burke, in many ways the founder of traditional conservatism, but also a keen supporter of the liberal economics of Adam Smith.
Here, too, the author contrasts libertarian conservatism with paternalist conservatism, using the same principles ( [3], see p. 79).
In conclusion, much of this article belongs in the liberal conservatism article, with a note indicating that it is also sometimes referred to as libertarian conservatism (many political ideologies have multiple names). Much of the rest belongs in an article to be named conservative libertarianism. -- Precision123 ( talk) 15:48, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 16:10, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Libertarian conservatism → Conservative libertarianism – Talk:Libertarian conservatism#Libertarian conservatism vs. conservative libertarianism Fourmidable ( talk) 15:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky ( talk) 01:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 17:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 14:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)