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One ref is a primary source from her and the other barely reporting on the incident. Could we get a generalized source for her? — DaxServer ( t · m · e · c) 19:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
"India's Uprising: The world’s largest democracy, united as never before" by Christopher Caldwell at https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/indias-uprising raises points against the general charge of "fascism" this entry makes. The nuances can't be covered here, but to raise some questions.
1.“When a demagogue like Modi takes a swipe at the likes of [Nobel-winning Harvard economist] Amartya Sen with a motto like ‘hard work is better than Harvard,’ knowing anglophones might snigger but it resonates amongst people who have been at the receiving end of this privileged knowingness forever.”
The article makes a strong case that Hindutva under Modi has had a far higher benefit/cost ratio than German fascism of the 1930s in terms of including more of the electorate than ever before in the day-to-day task of governance.
2. "Although the BJP’s Hindu ideology is not necessarily radical, the voters’ democratic mood can be very radical indeed. That the BJP is in power in the first place means that the old “managed” democracy of the Congress party system has been replaced with a more freewheeling variant—a more democratic democracy, if you will, a democracy that answers not to “values” but to the society as it actually exists."
In society as it actually exists, we ask things of each other, be it attention, taxes, or participation in an economic system. (For example, homelessness results on the part of those who resist, refuse, or are ineligible for that economic participation.) And it raises the question of what we have a right to ask of each other. Hindutva as a cultural idea addresses some of these issues. Should we conflate this with fascism? I think not.
3. "The problem of respecting the decisions of majorities while defending the rights of minorities is an anthropological one, not a moral one. We like to pretend that, when it comes to balancing majority and minority interests, there is a knowable “right thing to do.” Often there isn’t. We also like to pretend that protecting minorities always means protecting them against abuse and persecution by majorities. Sometimes it does. But just as often it means claiming prerogatives for minorities against the innocent preferences of democratic majorities. When progressive change is about protecting minorities from majorities, it can become not just undemocratic but anti-democratic. It may be for the people, but it will not be of the people or by the people. Eventually it draws the people directly into the political fight, to unpredictable effect."
This ends my comments on this article. There are many who understand Hindutva and Indian history better than I do and perhaps my concerns are invalid.
Nonetheless, I appeal for a less-strident conflation of Hindutva and fascism than given in this article, which rests often on appeal to authority rather than the kind of analysis made by Christopher Caldwell. Drienstra ( talk) 18:34, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
society as it actually existsetc. Caldwell's article mentions fascism exactly once, and Hindutva only in two paragraphs (in a different section). So it seems that these observations about
the Venn diagram of Hindutva and classical fascismare your own original research.
The article makes a strong case that Hindutva under Modi has had a far higher benefit/cost ratio than German fascism of the 1930s in terms of including more of the electorate than ever before in the day-to-day task of governance.- the article doesn't mention Germany, Hitler or Nazism at all, so it looks like this is yourself making this case instead. We could go on to examine your weird assumption that fascism can be measured in the share of the electorate that is included "in the day-to-day task of governance" (you are quite clearly unaware of the mass movement aspects of fascism, which are often included in the very definition of the term, or e.g. of the Nazi regime's extensive "inclusion" of average citizens in its "governance", see e.g. blockwart). But fortunately Wikipedia's no original research policy alleviates the community of the need to spend time debunking amateur historians' personal theories.
this article, which rests often on appeal to authority rather than the kind of analysis made by Christopher Caldwell- this looks like a criticism of both Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy, which says that articles must proportionately represent
all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources [you might call it "authorities] on a topic, and of the aforementioned "no original research" policy against editors coming up with
the kind of analysisdone by scholars or journalists themselves and add it to Wikipedia articles. Of course, if Christopher Caldwell has provided such an analysis himself, that would be a different discussion - but as mentioned above, he quite clearly hasn't in this article.
I would be really thankfull if you give a second view of the 2nd and 3rd paragraph of intorduction. These are the typicall western@ media's stereotypical lines and would really promote of the rewritting of the article by an INDIAN or atleast of INDIAN ORIGIN.
Thank you
Regards
Yamantakks (
talk) 10:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
This article is partisan because of selective sourcing, despite the NPOV policy. For example, Deen Dayal Upadhyaya, the leading ideologue of modern Hindutva [1] and the inspiration for Modi, is nowhere mentioned. Statements by current RSS leadership that expand Hindutva to include anyone living in India [2] are ignored. Secondary sources related to these statements are available, but ignored. All relevant sides must be presented to justify the NPOV label.
A section called "dissenting views" or "rebuttals to fascism", or similar wording should be added, unless the partisanship is deliberate. I can submit draft content if this is approved. Sooku ( talk) 20:57, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
References
Hindutva should be kept redirected to Hindutva Politics, if there’s any problem lets have discussion over it, I’m sure others will agree to it. EntrepreneurPedia ( talk) 21:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)