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Best. Article Title. Evah. (Well, at least for today. :) ) Avt tor 16:53, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
The theory of Poe's alcoholism, both as cause of death and throughout his life, is being disputed and is beginning to be dismissed. Poe had a severe weakness to alcohol and became drunk even after one glass of wine. Poe has gone several months at a time without alcohol and seemed to have no attachment to it. According to this theory, the only reason Poe drank was because of unfortunate events in his life, which there seemed to be no end.
I removed the above addition because it desperately needs citations for it to be useful here. I'm certainly not saying it's not true, but "this theory" could be made by a second grader, for all I know. I suspect weasel words. But, if a source is found, it can be re-added. I'm also adding this to the talk page of the user who added it. Midnightdreary 19:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I moved the images around a bit for a couple reasons. First, his portrait is great, but it's also the first picture on the main Edgar Allan Poe and I think we need to differentiate. It's also his grave, which makes sense as a main image on a Death of Edgar Allan Poe page. Also, the image of the large memorial was next to the Poe Toaster section which may be a bad move - I'm not 100% sure, but I thought the Toaster visited his original grave. Lacking full info, I'm leaving that section image-less. Midnightdreary 17:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
How do we nominate this for featured article? I think this is a pretty slick article! Then again, I'm pretty biased. :) Midnightdreary 01:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I've done some significant edits today and I'm holding myself back from more. I think this article is long enough as it is, considering it's just one event. BUT, I was wondering if people thought the organization was clear or if work needed to be done? It seems strange, for example, that Cause of Death breaks apart the Chronology and Funeral sections - I almost want to add the funeral and reburial sections as as subsection under chronology. I think, and I could be wrong here, most people are coming to this page to read about the theories, not the step-by-step chronology. Thoughts?? - Midnightdreary 19:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I want to prepare this article for peer review or possible good article review. So, I'm asking for help. I just went a little crazy with "citation needed" tags and a couple "original research?" tags. The more citations we have, the stronger this article will be. Also, I'm going to check what I have to make sure the sources already cited really do refer to what's stated in the article. Please, please, HELP! I would especially like to see a wider variety of sources, beyond Silverman's book, for example. Thanks! -- Midnightdreary 17:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I found this little toy, and it might be useful in determining WP:MoS issues that may crop up during the Good Article candidacy. The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Malkinann 23:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I believe the long quote describing the exhumation to be from "Scarlett, Charles, Jr., "Tale of Ratiocination: The Death and Burial of Edgar Allan Poe," Maryland Historical Magazine, (1978), 360-374." but I cannot access it - does anyone have access to this article? - Malkinann 00:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I've put this article up for Peer Review, so any interested editors feel free to keep an eye on any comments that come in (wikilink is at the top of this talk page). Hopefully we can get some good advice and send this article over to Good Article review soon! I should also say, this has been one of the greatest collaborative efforts I've been involved with here on Wikipedia (sure, it's come in ebbs and flows but overall it's been great), so thanks to everyone! -- Midnightdreary 03:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Unless Poe has two cousins named Neilson and Nielson, there is an inconsistency in the spelling of the name in the article. Source count in book and link searches favors Neilson, though some books do list as Nielson. Michael Devore 21:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I can only describe this article as almost niquel
Before there is a violation of the 3 revert rule, let's try to reach a concensus about the Poe Toaster section: keep it or get rid of it?
I vote for keep, especially since it is in that format that this article was approved for Good Article status. This is a drastic change and MUST be discussed BEFORE making such a big cut. -- Midnightdreary 13:31, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty well along in my copyediting of this interesting and well-written article. However, I've found more things to change in the "Cause of Death" section than in any other section thus far. Please double-check my changes; I don't always get things right. I have a question about one passage (already slightly altered by me) that I can't quite sort out. It says, "However, Poe's characterization as an alcoholic is disputed. Poe had a severe weakness to alcohol and became drunk even after one glass of wine; he sometimes went several months at a time without alcohol and seemed to have no attachment to it. According to this theory, the only reason Poe drank was because of unfortunate events in his life, of which there seemed to be no end." The final sentence here suggests that Poe drank endlessly because of unfortunate events in his life. This contradicts the idea that he had no drinking problem, and it doesn't seem to fit logically with the preceding sentences. A possible solution would be to omit mention of this "theory". If it's only the idea of one scholar and carries no particular weight, it would be good to leave it out. (I see that this question has already arisen on this page; my concern about the logic adds to the earlier concern about weak or limited support.) Finetooth ( talk) 01:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I always hope to leave things better than I found them. I think your fixes have made the alcohol section much better. I have two more questions, this time about the "Character assassination". I'm thinking that the "Memoir" was presented as autobiography rather than biography. The word "forged" doesn't make sense unless Griswold was inventing things and attributing them to Poe. In other words, it appears that Griswold, at least in the "Memoir", was publishing fake autobiography rather than biography. A less important but related question is "Should 'Memoir' have a capital M?" Does the word refer to a chapter title, or is it meant as a general description? Finetooth ( talk) 04:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that someone earlier on this page had objected to the repetition of "Poe" every time you needed to mention the guy. The alternative was to use "he," which is often OK. In one place, though, the "he" is somewhat ambiguous: "He did not know what happened to his trunk of belongings that, incidentally, had been left behind at the Swan Tavern in Richmond." I wasn't sure whether this "he", which appears in the next to last sentence of "Chronology", meant Moran or Poe. I would suggest using "Poe" or "Moran" here rather than "he". The trick that I'm thinking of, though, would be to change the first sentence of the lead to read: "The death of Edgar Allan Poe, American poet, short-story writer, editor, and literary critic, on October 7, 1849, is clouded in mystery, and the cause of death is disputed." You could shorten that a bit if it seems too wordy, but long or short, such a phrase would then allow you to refer to Poe as "the author" or "the writer" or "the noted poet" here and there where it seemed needed and appropriate, instead of being stuck with only "Poe" or "he". Finetooth ( talk) 05:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm done with my copyedit, and I'll sign off on the LoCE form. However, I'll keep tabs on how things are going, and I'll be glad to answer questions or help otherwise. Working on this article was a pleasure. Finetooth ( talk) 05:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
It is interesting to note that the character assasination of E.A. Poe still perulates to this day, even though Griswold later recanted his alledged claims? In the early 1970's, I was a member of The Bronx County Historical Society, and a research volunteer to their research library. One of the volunteer research members was a Mr. John Piper, who was a Poe'fite bar none! One day we were discussing about E.A. Poe, when BCHS President at the time Prof. Lloyd Ultan walked in. He went to one of the locked researh cabinets, and presented two books and a document copy, One of these books was "Israfel", a biography of E.A. Poe, by Hervey Allan, and "In defence of Poe", by Dr. Moran. Both John and I began to see a different E.A. Poe coming up to the surface. Then Prof. Ultan presented us a document copy of a letter that was written by one of The Jesuit priest's that lived and taught at St. John's College (aka: Fordham University), saying that Poe was not a drunkard, but had moments of "The Frenzies" especially at being "alone" after the death of his beloved Virginia. It was also presented that Poe was welcomed numerious times to stay on the College campus.
Now... in my research on Dr. Moran's book, he noted that Poe was sent to "The Naval Ward" which was restricted to Military personnel only, so if Poe was brought in unknown in such a derelict state, then he would have been brought immediately to "The General Ward"? Another interesting fact in Moran's book, states that after the presentation of the monument in Baltimore, he observed Two Priest's lagging behind toward the end of the ceremony? He indentifies the older priest as a man of learning and poetic prose... or something like that?
In Hervey Allan's book, he discusses Poe at being a master of disguises, and had averted many times his observation of various events. Between these books and the letter, one might think that E.A. Poe was living a "double life", and may have survived his ordeal in Baltimore in 1849?
I have more to share;
Aedwardmoch ( talk) 23:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)Aedwardmoch Aedwardmoch ( talk) 23:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks
Aedwardmoch ( talk) 22:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)Aedwardmoch Aedwardmoch ( talk) 22:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't EVERYTHING about Edgar Allen Poe be on the main article about Edgar Allen Poe? Just a suggestion.
--Katliegh 23:12, 3 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Katliegh ( talk • contribs)
I have modified the statement about the test of Poe's hair. It previously stated that it disproved various poisonings. This is untrue. The test merely shows that Poe did not have chronic exposure to various metals and toxins in the months to year preceding his death. It does not rule out acute exposure. Furthermore, this was a scientific test; science never proves anything (that is a foundation principle of science--it only disproves null hypothesis). In science, proof is only considered after repeated efforts to disprove. One test is not proof. Anyway, that's my reasoning for the change I made. If people disagree, I am certainly willing to discuss. Thanks. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 14:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
In 1941, Arthur Hobson Quinn presented evidence that Griswold had forged and re-written a number of Poe's letters that were included in his "Memoir of the Author".[63] Even so, historians continued to use Griswold's depiction as a model for their own biographies of Poe, including W. H. Davenport in 1880, Thomas R. Slicer in 1909, and Augustus Hopkins Strong in 1916.
How dare those authors not do their research of findings up to 60 years later! I am thinking this paragraph has been accidentally mutilated. WookMuff ( talk) 22:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Poe had passed through Philadelphia in the winter of 1849 during a cholera epidemic. He got sick during his time in the city and wrote a letter to his aunt, Maria Clemm, saying that he may "have had the cholera, or spasms quite as bad".
Wasn't he lying in a grave during the winter of 1849? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.150.222.23 ( talk) 20:51, 12 March 2010 (UTC) Changing this to "early 1984". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.150.222.23 ( talk) 20:54, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The last line of the second paragraph in the Cause of Death section reads:
"In a study of Poe, a psychologist suggested that Poe had dipsomania, a condition that causes frequent seizures that lead to excesses, often alcoholic, during which the victim cannot remember what has happened to him or her."
This sentence makes no sense at all. It seems to indicate that seizures cause a person to engage in "excesses" (?) or alcoholism and that these actions are accomplished during the seizure. Let me make this perfectly clear: seizures don't work like that. Dipsomania may lead to seizures and people who suffer from dipsomania do drink large quantities of alcohol. But dipsomania does not cause some form of seizure that leads to alcoholism. That being said, I don't have the original source that is referenced in the article, so I don't want to change sourced material. Does the original source actually contain the same nonsense that is currently in the article? Or does the source make more accurate statements that got "lost in translation" as they were incorporated into this article? If someone reading this has a copy of the reference material will you please check the source? Hopefully we can then make an edit that makes the "Cause..." section more coherent. Thanks. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 20:14, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
This topic only came to my attention when reading the NY Times article on Lenin's death yesterday. In there, Philip A. Mackowiak, vice chairman of the University of Maryland’s school of medicine and organizer of the annual clinicopathological conferences focused on historical figures, is quoted as saying “Poe was a hopeless alcoholic {who] almost certainly died of delirium tremens.” Back in 1996, he he had agreed with Benitez that "rabies was the most likely cause of Poe's death, based on the available evidence", but (from the NY Times article) "he later did a much more comprehensive review of Poe’s medical records and concluded that Poe’s doctor had embellished Poe’s medical history". He dedicated a chapter on Poe in his 2007 book Post Mortem: Solving History's Great Medical Mysteries (pages 241-276), which probably is the research he refers to in the news paper article.
Mackowiak appears to be a/the leader in the probably quite small field of historical clinicopathology and one assumes he laid down his hypothesis carefully in those 36 pages. Perhaps this reference is missing because the article was more or less "finished" in 2007. The rest of the article suggests that alcohol as a cause has been unpopular for a while; if these exist, we can add counterarguments from other experts (not merely biographers) who have read Mackowiak's chapter, but it seems odd to exclude such a thorough and relatively recent study on the very subject of this article and leave "delirium tremens" as merely one of the many speculations on Poe's death both here and in the main article on Poe. Afasmit ( talk) 22:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to chime in on this discussion so late. Thanks for the message alerting me to this, Midnight. I know that this a place to discuss the article, not the topic in general, but judging sources calls for a consideration of the facts. Dr. Benitez suggested rabies not knowing that the patient he was discussing was Poe. Dr. Mackowiak essentially created a blinded study on Poe's death by presenting Poe's case history at a conference as an unknown patient. Though I have not read Mackowiak's subsequent work, it seems that his analysis may not be overly objective--based on the statements provided in Afasmit's comment above. Mackowiak seems to accept that Poe was an alcoholic despite the fact that there is good evidence to the contrary. He had a problem with alcohol--but that's not the same as being an alcoholic. Dr. Mackowiak apparently also has forgotten a crucial fact about delirium tremens which we all learned early in medical school. Delirium tremens is a final stage in alcohol withdrawal that typically begins about 7 days after the onset of withdrawal symptoms. Many people confuse alcohol withdrawal and delirium tremens--they are not synonyms. This is not the time or place to go into a detailed discussion of the course of alcohol withdrawal syndrome but in my opinion the known timing and course of events that lead up to Poe's death do not fit Dr. Mackowiak's diagnosis with enough certainty to conclude that “Poe was a hopeless alcoholic who almost certainly died of delirium tremens.” Mackowiak's book deserves credit as it is one of the few analyses of Poe's death actually written by a physician. And alcohol withdrawal is definitely an important possibility on the list of differential diagnoses. While it's true that the "cause of death" sections in these articles really need major improvements (but whose got the time), based on my consideration of the facts at hand and what few snippets from his book I could find, there doesn't seem to be much reason for any major edits to this article or the main Poe article merely to exploit Mackowiak's authority as a clinician. Rabies and delerium tremens (as well as "alcoholism") are already present in the articles and sourced. That being said, if a Mackowiak source would replace a Silverman source, then I'm all in. MorbidAnatomy ( talk) 03:17, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
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This comment is not in regards to the plausibility of Poe being a victim of cooping. However, a user has recently removed any reference to the theory claiming that the term does not exist and was coined in the 2000s. I have reverted those edits. References to Poe and cooping are ample and well cited. It is not our charge to determine truth but to reflect published research and writings on Poe's death (which I believe this article does quite well). Further, the user's claim that the term was created only recently is demonstrably false. A quick Google Book search finds the term used in 1910. -- Midnightdreary ( talk) 14:40, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
The link for footnote 43 doesn't work and I can't find another one for that particular article by R. Michael Benitez.
There are a few articles that tell the story, including this one:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-09-11-1996255015-story.html
but it doesn't mention the "rat bites" and "cooping" connection.
I left the link as is (not working).
VickiMeagher ( talk) 21:57, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Under "chronology" the passage here
Poe may have instead been calling for "Herring", as the author had an uncle-in-law in Baltimore named Henry Herring. In later testimonies, Moran avoided reference to Reynolds but mentioned a visit by a "Misses Herring". He also claimed he attempted to cheer up Poe during one of the few times he was awake. When Moran told his patient that he would soon be enjoying the company of friends, Poe allegedly replied that, "The best thing his friend could do would be to blow out his brains with a pistol".
uses too frequently the pronoun "he", which makes the text very difficult to read due to three possible male subjects being present. GuilaumeDeschutes ( talk) 03:05, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
The goals of my recent edits to the opening paragraph are:
I will add to this that it is not a point of controversy that Poe was found in poor condition. Both Walker and Snodgrass agreed on that and to my knowledge no one contradicted it, and after all his condition was such that he died. Therefore there is no reason to quote from Walker's note as if it were controversy. I call this "chewing the sources," i.e. making a performance of attribution and citation when it serves no policy purpose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:642:4600:3F80:A85C:B510:6789:B329 ( talk) 00:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC)