Burebista has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
October 22, 2017. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that looming war between the Dacian king
Burebista and
Julius Caesar was preempted by the assassination of both leaders? |
This
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
How do we know that Burebista/"Bu-ere-bu-ist-as" really means "the one that is not" ? Bogdan | Talk 10:13, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Can we get some better sourcing here? Chapter and verse from Strabo/Ammianus/whoever would be nice, but a reference to a (preferably English-language) secondary source would be okay too. This sounds like a really fascinating chapter in ancient history, and I'd like to find out more. Bacchiad 20:48, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
the name Burebista just indicates the place of birth Buridava or a local name of the thracians . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burs_%28Dacia%29 Mitridatu ( talk)
this is what Jordanes claims about Deceneus and Burebista, in his Getica, but Jordanes also claims that the Getae were the Goths, so perhaps an advertisment/caution should be provided, that this is what Jordanes wrote -- Criztu 17:35, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
We need to find as many of the attested forms of his name as possible: Burebista, Boerebostes (?), etc. etc.. Compare to Tarabostes and Rubobostes (though I've seen an internet site claim that Rubobostes is a misrendering of Burobostes). See also Albanian karabishte ( stag beetle). Alex 06:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burs_%28Dacia%29
Mitridatu (
talk)
I´ve added all three attested forms of his name in literary sources (in Strabo and Jordanes, that is) and corrected the Greek letters in headlines. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.31.40.100 ( talk) 16:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Could be as/from albanian burre-bishta "tail-man"..."by tail,short man"? "man with (hair) tail"?, or as basque buru-bista :"wiew/sighting-head".."well-known" eugenrau ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:51, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Could be as/from albanian burre-bishta "tail-man"..."by tail,short man"? "man with (hair) tail"?, or as basque buru-bista :"wiew/sighting-head".."well-known head=ruller" eugenrau ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:52, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Could be as/from albanian burre-bishta "tail-man"..."by tail,short man"? "man with (hair) tail"?, or as basque buru-bista :"wiew/sighting-head".."well-known head=ruller" eugenrau ( talk)18:53, 03 September 2013 (UTC)
I just added a line stating that the causes of Burebista's death are uncertain, there being no clear evidence of a plot, especially if we consider that he was followed to power by his High Priest and side-arm Deceneus. (Leo, 2008-07-21)
From what I have read, the kingdom of Burebista was larger than suggested than the current map Hxseek ( talk) 06:42, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
The recent article changes that you made; Pwn111 had multiple problems though also some constructive additions. I've removed material that I do not think complies with Wiki policy.
Whereas foreign historians may see in Burebista a dominant king and a conquering warrior, Burebista did not extend the boundaries of his kingdom to other cultural and linguistic areas, as to conquer and rule over foreign tribes or nations. Burebista united and ruled over the Daco-Getae alone, and his kingdom only extended over the teritories of the Daco-Getae, and not over his other (foreign) neighbors.citation needed - Claims must be accompanied by sources. Also this is patently incorrect.
Trajan conquered only about a third of Dacia. I think I've read this somewhere, but, again citation needed. If you have a source to back up your claim then feel free to re-instate it with the source. I'll check my sources (which is every source currently cited in the article).
Dacians play a significant role in describing the history of ethnical origin for Romanian peoplegoes against the cited source.
the Dacians have a role in describing Romania's ancestors as a civilized and cosmopolitan nation. - Umm... not what the original statement meant. Dacian cultural influences in modern Romanian society are quite small. There are archaeological sites and the such, but, not the traditions. Hence "only a small role".
The break-up of Dacia after Burebista was assasinated does not exclude the ethnic, cultural, and linguistic unity of the people of Dacia. As we all know very well, one of the most famous Roman motto was DIVIDE ET IMPERA - divide and conquer.- Problem a) do not use "we, I, us" in an encyclopaedia. Problem b) no demonstrable relevance and problem c) no source.
The whole region of Dacia had solid continuity of ethnic, linguistic, and cultural features in common<- Umm, not sure that this is necessary. The state of Dacia didn't disappear after Burebista's death. It just became particularly weak for a short while. It was only finally dismantled after Trajan's Dacian Wars.
Dacian unity was the main source of Dacia's power, and was also the reason why the Romans feared the Dacians.<- Citation needed. Every statement needs to have a source attached to it. That said, the statement is most likely an accurate reflection of the relations between Rome and Dacia, but, unity itself has nothing to do with it. The Romans were not afraid of Dacia because it was unified, but, because it had a strong military presence under a competent commander.
Trajan conquered a part of Dacia. Eh, this one is difficult to really address. If you can provide a source for "two" then you'd be correct. As it stands, Dacia ceased to exist after Trajan's conquest. I'll take a look for a source to support the statement since I think you are correct.
Trajan conquered about a third of Dacia's surface which Decebalus ruled over. Dacia was much, much larger than the small piece of land Trajan (the invader) conquered from the Daco-Getae, and named Roman Dacia. In fact, some large part of Dacia was never conquered by the Romans at any point. After plundering the conquered area, the Romans fully withdrew from it.citation needed
Unity is the source of their power, expressed linguistically and culturally<- Unsourced and not really important.
warred with invaders. <- Not accurate. They warred with the Getae specifically who were not invaders.
Their function was to establish and secure the Dacian kingdom internally.<-
The war powers of the tribes of<- not a neutral description. We don't say "the mighty and glorious Roman empire collapsed", we just say "the Roman empire collapsed".
... the Greek cities on the coast<- good catch :) same with
... in a plot by the Dacian aristocracy.
This sparked a second invasion of Dacia in 106 AD which ended the independence of the Dacian kingdom, and brought about its break-up. Trajan conquered only about a third of Dacia. <- mostly a good rewrite, just need the citation for "a third of Dacia".
varied. I have reinstated it. There were many tribes in the region before the Dacian kingdom, not just the Getae and Dacians. The La Tene Celts are another example and are completely unrelated to the Dacians or Getae.
The Getae and Dacians are related, but, distinct peoples that are sometimes treated as a single group under the name of Geto-Daciansto
The Getae and Dacians were related people forming an ethnic group sometimes named Geto-Dacians. Hitchins states that they were related but different groups. Sort of like the Sioux, Lakota and Dakota tribes of the US.
often with the Getaeto
even with the Getae. It's not a major point, but, the Dacians and Getae had more than one near catastrophic engagement. They had many. I also changed "geography" to "geographic isolation". I also removed the pointlessly added "still". Don't make a value judgement as to how difficult it was. They did it and that is what we're supposed to state.
The Dacians were located on the high plains inside of the Carpathian curveture and in the Carpatho-Danubian region of the southern Carpathian mountains<- Carphathian curveture is not correct. Do you mean The Sub Carpathians otherwise known as the Curvature Carpathians. If so, can you provide me a source saying that's where they were located. I'll double check Hitchins but as I recall he only specificied on the southern Carpathian mountains.
thus ending the influence of the Celtic culture- Nope. If that were true there wouldn't be Celtic pottery influences in Dacian sites.
accension<- this is not a word; you mean "ascenscion". Accession is the more correct term for "coming to the throne."
including in Gomolava, Yugoslavia and Budapest, Hungaryto
former Yugoslavia and the Pannonian Basin. Please don't remove cited material. Koch explicitly states that Dacian pottery was found in Gomolava and Budapest. Yugoslavia and Pannonia are much larger geographic regions than these two specific sites. If there were ten different sites in Yugoslavia then it'd be fine to just say in Yugoslavia. As it is, one doesn't suggest broad sweeping regions. On a second point, I haven't been able to work out whether pointing out that Yugoslavia broke up in 1991/2 and that it no longer exists goes for or against policy. For some reason Yugoslavia is still commonly used in sources and I don't think it valuable enough to dig up sources just to change "Yugoslavia" into "Former Yugoslavia".
The historian John Koch states that Burebista founded a kingdom sometime during the 1st century BC and that around 61 BC he expelled the Celts and ruled the middle Danube (also).<- No, he doesn't. If he did, then that is what would have been written. I know that it's called the Dacian Kingdom, but, some historians use "empire" to mean that it incorporated multiple countries into a single entity. In the case of Dacia this includes Romania and parts of Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Ukraine. Hence why Koch says empire. That said, I've left all the other empire -> kingdom changes because they are fine on their own and don't go against the source.
The job of a king is to unite and secure his kingdom, and Burebista did so.<- this is another value judgement that doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia. The reader themselves is supposed to decide whether Burebista achieved his goals or not.
The political breakdown does not mean related cultural or linguistic similarities disolved<- unnecessary since no claim to suggest that the political breakdown also led to a cultural breakdown exists. At least not until after Decebalus. There isn't a history of Dacian culture after 106 A.D. There is a group called " Free Dacians" but that only extends to at most 381 A.D. This is long before modern Romania. If you like though, the state of the article on this topic is extremely poor. You might be able to significantly improve it if that's in your topic area of interest.
Grumeza "holds a Bachelors Degree in Education and a Masters Degree in Education from the University of Bucharest, Romania", according to his own website ( [8]). He has a Ph.D. in Metaphysical Sciencse from the University of Metaphysical Sciences. He also says about himself that he "immersed himself in the New York City libraries and the libraries at Yale University, absorbing knowledge in multiple fields of study." Consequently, he can hardly be described as a historian. According to a review written by Ina Merdjanova, Trinity College Dublin ( [9]), the reviewer found "it pointless to flog a dead horse by listing all the distortions, factual errors, misrepresentations and dull ethnocentrisms plaguing" an other book (The Roots of Balkanization: Eastern Europe C.E. 500-1500) written by Grumeza. She also concludes that Grumeza "does not show any research on how he arrived at these conclusions—and this is the case with most of the conclusions in his book." When writing a review about an other book written by Grumeza (Admiring the Goose-steps: How Hitler Succeeded in Intimidating the World Powers), the reviewer concludes that "this is a book that is so riddled with errors, that it cannot be recommended to anyone" ( [10]). Grumeza's book cited in the article (Dacia: Land of Transylvania, Cornerstone of Ancient Eastern Europe) is also of dubious scholarship. For instance, he states that "The Dacian language would have been similar to today's Russian" (page 84), without referring to the source of his assumption (which can only be described as a fringe theory). I think Grumeza's book cannot be described as a reliable source. We should not refer to it when editing WP articles. Borsoka ( talk) 02:51, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
What does the expression "Thracian king of the Getae and Dacian tribes" mean? Does it imply that the Getae and the Dacians were ruled also by kings of non-Thracian stock? Or does it imply that he was alien to his Getic and Dacian subjects like the Norman William the Conqueror to his Anglo-Saxon subjects? I think we should describe him simply as "king of Dacia" or "the first ruler to unite the Dacian tribes". Borsoka ( talk) 15:55, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
Mommsen suggests that Deceneus was the key factor in the success of Burebista, but no mention is made in the article. If this is not true, it probably should be discounted in the article, or if true, added. Droopyfeathers ( talk) 17:22, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
This statement has been re-added by an IP to the article without any indication of it originating in a reliable source. I have placed notices on the IPs talk page previously explaining the issue and have requested page protection. There isn't really a point in opening a talk page section as an IP cannot be pinged. Nevertheless, for posterity, this is an at best dubious claim, and at worst a fabrication. Whilst authoring this article many years ago I consulted a dozen or so sources. The only ethnic background ever provided in them for Burebista was that of 'Thracian'. The claim that he is Scythian (or any other ethnic background) needs to be supported by the literature. Mr rnddude ( talk) 22:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)