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Provide references from proper sources / old texts / inscriptions to prove varna claims. -- = No ||| Illusion = ( talk) 05:50, 10 May 2010 (UTC)Mayasutra
C
left-Sudra groups — often referred to by the cover-title 'Balija', but also including Boyas, left-hand Gollas, Gavaras, and others — were first mobilized politically by Krishnadevaraya in the Vijayanagara heyday. Durjaya vamsam ( talk) 04:46, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Please can someone explain to me the connections between Balija, Goud and Idiga, preferably with some sources to back it up. Thanks. - Sitush ( talk) 11:15, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, this has not been documented properly. Socially it is believed members of Goud / Idiga started claiming to be Balijas and Kapus very recently. Since their customs vary, their claims were / are not accepted by other Balijas and Kapus.
However, the point to note is that the term Balija merely indicates a trader or a banajiga guild member. So one never knows really.
In Karnataka, i personally know of Gouds (deve gowda's caste supposedly vokkaligas) who claim to be Balijas; and have successfully married into Balijas also. Surprisingly, they speak Telugu although outside they claim to be Kannadigas, and pass off as kannadigas intact with their pride for kannada language and all that. They worship the same gods, and in that respect there are some ritual similarities. But in customs or rituals pertaining to death, first menstruation of a girl, some wedding customs, etc, they are very different.
@ Mayasutra: You are confusing between ‘Goud’ a toddy-tapping caste of Telugu regions and ‘Gowdas’ a title akin to Reddy used by Vokkaligas. The Gouds are called Idigas in Karnataka. Vokkaligas in Karnataka are cultivators. The Vokkalihas are a forward caste in Karnataka, with most sub castes in the General Category. While the Balijas are a backward caste Karnataka. Vokkaligas have never claimed to be Balijas. 05:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
In Andhra, the Balijas and Kapus simply do not accept the claims of Idigas / Gouds. AFAIK, there is no evidence to indicate that Idigas / Gouds managed to enter the Balija and Kapu groupings in the Andhra regions. Even if they did, documented proof is lacking. For that matter, written proof is lacking for the Karnataka regions also.
Since documented proof is lacking it is impossible to represent content of this kind in the article. The best source is still the Sepuri Bhaskar one. Although its a poor source, unfortunately, some sorta 'indications' atleast are given in such sources. -- = No ||| Illusion = ( talk) 13:22, 1 January 2012 (UTC)Mayasutra
Guys, the 24 manai telugu chettiar caste of tamil nadu also known as Sadhu chetty/ Janappan is also a part of the Balija community according to proper sources.
https://archive.org/stream/castestribesofso02thuriala#page/447/mode/2up
They are also a telugu/tamil speaking caste initially belonging to the Balija, but recently seperated out as a distinct caste.
/info/en/?search=Twenty_four_Manai_Telugu_Chettiars
Please add them in the Balija sub classification if found suitable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.253.48.237 ( talk) 03:35, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
No, we are not at all belongs to balija. 24 Manai Telugu cheetiars also called Sadhu Chetty in Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Kerala. we follow 24 Manai means 24 families or gothras we are unique Thank and Regards, Akhila Bharatha Sadhu Chetty Sangam. Lokeshthimmana ( talk) 04:13, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Kautilya3: you reverted here because the source is unreliable. Can you fill me in, please? The same contributor has reinstated it here and, I think, elsewhere. Thanks. - Sitush ( talk) 14:25, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Should the book rouse scepticism among some of it readers and stimulate further research with more refined tools and techniques, it would have attained a great purpose.It doesn't fill me with confidence. - Sitush ( talk) 17:15, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Kavaras claim separate community not balija any doubt check Tamil nadu backward class report. Durjaya vamsam ( talk) 04:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Don't use census reports directly - they are primary sources. Furthermore, in the instances where they are being added at the moment, they are also Raj sources. Also, don't use rubbish from the "states" series of The People of India - this has been discussed at WP:RSN in the past, where it was noted that the series basically just plagiarises Raj sources, often without attribution.
The reasons for poor census enumeration are many and varied, as noted at Census of India prior to independence. It is pointless trying to hang it on one or two issues when there were in fact so many. Best to leave it with the examples that are already given rather than add more and more of them and attempt to attribute additional weight to certain ones. - Sitush ( talk) 11:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Caste-related articles are difficult to write well because they have to be nuanced - what applies in one place at one time may not apply in another place and/or time, and sometimes omitting something or equivocating about it is preferable to making an absolute statement. These are things you learn as you go along but it will probably be more difficult to do so if you have a preconception about the system or whatever. - Sitush ( talk) 12:38, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Don't do the writing in the article. Don't assume what sources I can or cannot access. Please. - Sitush ( talk) 14:33, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Respective Kautilya3 Then see this reference its not written by honourable Indian Civil Service member might have said a century ago this was published few years age in the year 1992
Balija
In the Book "Court and State in Nayaka Period Tamilnadu" by Velcheru Narayana Rao defines as below
" These left- Sudra groups — often referred to by the cover-title 'Balija', but also including Boyas, left-hand Gollas, Gavaras, and others - were first mobilized by Krishnadevaraya in the Vijayanagara heyday...These Balija fighters are not afraid of kings: some stories speak of their killing kings who interfered with their affairs". [1]
Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 13:51, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
" These left-Sudra groups — often referred to by the cover-title 'Balija', but also including Boyas, left-hand Gollas, Gavaras, and others - were first mobilized by Krishnadevaraya in the Vijayanagara heyday...These Balija fighters are not afraid of kings: some stories speak of their killing kings who interfered with their affairs".[52] Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 13:53, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
See the book it was written on 1992 Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 13:54, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
References
The recent repeated removal of sourced info by Millikat ( talk · contribs) has been explained to them on several occasions, eg: here. I have reverted it again. - Sitush ( talk) 16:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Then why can't i add Gopita balija which is also a part of Balija Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 01:27, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Then why cant i add 'Gopita Balija' who is also the part of balijas. Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 01:30, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Famous personalities of Balija caste — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.104 ( talk) 19:14, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
With regard to the recent edit war on this page, please note that the Caste system in India page states:
The jatis are complex social groups that lack universally applicable definition or characteristic, and have been more flexible and diverse than was previously often assumed.
It is sourced to a scholarly book published by the Cambridge University Press in 2001. That is a reliable source. What any honourable Indian Civil Service member might have said a century ago is entirely irrelevant, and has no place on this page. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:26, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
Balija is the combined term of boyas,Gollas, Gavaras and some castes it is noted in the book of velcheru narayana rao in his book published in the 1992 telling as below Balija In the Book "Court and State in Nayaka Period Tamilnadu" by Velcheru Narayana Rao defines as below
" These left- Sudra groups — often referred to by the cover-title 'Balija', but also including Boyas, left-hand Gollas, Gavaras, and others - were first mobilized by Krishnadevaraya in the Vijayanagara heyday...These Balija fighters are not afraid of kings: some stories speak of their killing kings who interfered with their affairs". [1]
Sathyanarayana naidu ( talk) 14:02, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
References
kaifiyat not given full details of who wrote it.cannot decide with only the lines of the page in a book. Durjaya vamsam ( talk) 04:43, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
All the books are called Balijas are an offshoot of the Kammas or Kapus, an admixture of Telugu castes. Durjaya vamsam ( talk) 04:55, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Just reverted back to a version of May 2019. I have ploughed through the tortuous history since then and can't see much except edit warring, pov-pushing, poor sourcing and regular contributors trying to stem this tide. I think we're at the point where this article needs indefinite WP:ECP or something like that. If I have missed anything of note then hopefully the other experienced contributors will spot it and fix. - Sitush ( talk) 14:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
There are some key details about the origins of Balijas missing in the article. Apart from those involved in trade guilds, in Andhra the popular tradition as well the inscriptional evidence suggests Balijas have formed from Kapus who have taken up mercantile activity. This has been accepted by various scholars. Currently, Balijas are considered a sub-caste of Kapus in Andhra Pradesh by the government, and also by sociologists who research on Andhra. For example, in this study the author, a sociologist, mentions that Balijas of Rayalaseema are addressed as Kapus in Krishna-Godvarai delta and vice versa. The same can be found in various other socio-economic and political studies of caste groups in Andhra Pradesh. That is, the self identification of these castes in Andhra is a missing piece of information in the article.
Balijas are considered by various sociologists and psephologists to constitute the single largest caste in Andhra, especially in the Rayalaseema region. And, it is in Andhra where by far the largest number of Balijas are concentrated (based on the Britsh-era caste censuses). There has been a major development in the past decade where Balijas and other so-called Kapu subcastes have launched a movement for reservations which majorly affected the politics of the state. Post-this, the government has constituted a committee for Kapu, Balija, Telaga, and Ontari castes called Kapu Corporation to disburse loans etc. to these castes/sub-castes. Now, as can be seen the article does not address any of these very key issues regarding the modern classification, identity, and sociological status of the community. The article needs to be expanded with additional information on these key topics especially their relationship with Kapus and the current movement for OBC status which is very significant from political standpoint (parallel to the movements of Marathas, Jats, and Patels). The article in the current states has various lacunae as explained previously and needs to be significantly re-written/expanded. Let me know your thoughts on this. Reo kwon ( talk) 06:23, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
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In the Origins section kindly change the line
“Beginning in the 11th century, references are found in inscriptions throughout the Kannada and Tamil areas to a trading network, which is sometimes referred to as a guild, called the Five Hundred Lords of Ayyavolu that provided trade links between trading communities in Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, and Karnataka.”
to
“Beginning in the 9th century, references are found in inscriptions throughout the Kannada and Tamil areas to a trading network, which is sometimes referred to as a guild, called the Five Hundred Lords of Ayyavolu that provided trade links between trading communities in Tamil Nadu, and Karnataka.”
This is a preview of the reference cited [1] in the Wikipedia article. It doesn’t mention Andhra Pradesh and only mentions Karnataka and Tamil Nadu with regards to the 9th century inscription. The Balijas are mentioned in Andhra only from the 13th century and this has been mentioned in the Wikipedia article in the line following the above line. Thank you. 12:49, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template. It does not appear there is consensus for this change.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 20:30, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
Beginning in the ninth century, inscriptions drew attention to another kind of community whose function for many centuries was to provide trade links among agrarian communities in Karnataka and Tamil country with Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia. One group of traders called themselves the Five Hundred Lords of Ayyavolu (modern Aihole), a town that was formerly a subsidiary capital of the Chalukyas of Badami...
— Stein, Burton; Arnold, David (4 February 2010). A History of India. John Wiley & Sons. p. 120. ISBN 978-1444323511.
Balija caste is taken birth from king Bali who is grandson of Bhakt Prahalada.The Balija race either emerged from Brahmin race or king race that means they belong upper caste of four varna system,not from Sudhra race. 2409:4072:614:7589:0:0:2895:40AD ( talk) 02:12, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
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Change "Variations of the name in use in the medieval era were Balanja, Bananja, Bananju, and Banijiga, with probable cognates Balijiga, Valanjiyar, Balanji, Bananji and derivatives such as Baliga, all of which are said to be derived from the Sanskrit term Vanik or Vanij, for trader." to "Variations of the name in use in the medieval era were Balanja, Bananja, Bananju, Banajiga and Banijiga, with probable cognates Balijiga, Valanjiyar, Balanji, Bananji and derivatives such as Baliga, all of which are said to be derived from the Sanskrit term Vanik or Vanij, for trader."
The source <ref name="EpigraphiaIndica1983"/>
from article mentions Banajiga as one of the names used as it quotes "As regards the derivation of this word, the late Mr Venkayya says:- In Kanarese banajiga is still used to denote a class of merchants. In Telugu the word balija or balijiga has the same meaning. It is therefore probable that the words valañjiyam, valanjiyar, balañji, banañji, banajiga and balija are cognate, and derived from the Sanskrit vanij".
Hellomesu (
talk) 08:31, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
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In "Balija branches", add the following division:
References
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Telangana,maharastra should also be added into the list of states where balija caste is present predominantly in official records and historical records as mentioned in page. Chandra 2000 ( talk) 13:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change
Balija | |
---|---|
Religions | Hinduism |
Languages | Kannada, Tamil, Telugu |
Populated states | Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu |
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala.
To
Balija | |
---|---|
Religions | Hinduism |
Languages | Kannada, Tamil, Telugu |
Populated states | Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Maharastra |
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala and Maharastra. Chandra 2000 ( talk) 17:40, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia- telugu castes list Chandra 2000 ( talk) 21:05, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
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Change
Balija | |
---|---|
Religions | Hinduism |
Languages | Kannada, Tamil, Telugu |
Populated states | Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu |
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala.
To
Balija | |
---|---|
Religions | Hinduism |
Languages | Kannada, Tamil, Telugu |
Populated states |
Andhra Pradesh,
TelanganaCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).,
Karnataka,
Kerala,
Tamil Nadu |
Balija is a caste of the Indian states of Andhra Pradesh, Telangana [1], Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, and Kerala. Chandra 2000 ( talk) 20:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
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I'm looking around for duplicate arguments in template calls, and I found one for the "quote" parameter in this source:
{{cite book|editor1-last=Jakka Parthasarathy |author2=|title=Rural Population in Indian Urban Setting |volume= |publisher=B.R. Publishing Corporation |year=1984|page=52|quote=|quote=Balija are the chief Telugu trading caste , scattered ! throughout Andhra Pradesh , Karnataka and Tamil Nadu| url=https://books.google.co.in/books?id=KLwiAAAAMAAJ }}
. Could you please change it to
{{cite book|editor1-last=Jakka Parthasarathy |author2=|title=Rural Population in Indian Urban Setting |volume= |publisher=B.R. Publishing Corporation |year=1984|page=52|quote=Balija are the chief Telugu trading caste , scattered ! throughout Andhra Pradesh , Karnataka and Tamil Nadu| url=https://books.google.co.in/books?id=KLwiAAAAMAAJ }}
? Thanks! OpalYosutebito ( talk) 15:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)