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Who has ever heard of "Ha'apalah" in the English-speaking world or even in Israel? I have nothing against Hebrew words, but only if it can be shown that they have widespread usage (hopefully by Jews, and it helps if non-Jews have accepted Hebrew words as well. But we cannot foist words on the world, with the excuse that some Israelis use it nowadays.) We must stick with the best-known terms, and not give in to revisionistic tendencies as this amounts to a violation of
Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms. Just
Google Aliyah Bet and compare it to
Ha'apalah on Google to see which has the most usage, it's not even a contest! So let's not get carried away here.
IZAK07:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)reply
Edits Jan 08
I’ve split the article into sections, to make it a bit tidier; and I’ve re-arranged the ships that were lost into date order. I hope that’s OK with everyone.
Xyl 54 (
talk)
17:47, 3 January 2008 (UTC)reply
This article: "On August 3, 1944 the Mafkura (or Mefkure) sailed from Constanta with 350 persons on board. The boat travelled with the Morino and Bulbul. The convoy encountered a storm, and the Mefkure was sunk by gunfire or torpedo from a German submarine. "
In the lead: "in violation of British White Paper of 1939 restrictions, in the years 1934-1948". Umm, 1934 action in violation of a 1939 restriction? 00:18, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Merge
Propose merger of
One Million Plan ->
Aliya Bet
The article on
One Million Plan was created in 2014 and has attempted to describe the 1944 Zionist plan to repatriate one million Jews to Mandatory Palestine from 1944 to 1945. The plan was approved by some Zionist organs, but in reality never took place, being in fact shelved. The current article on One Million Plan has only a few sentences on the plan itself, with the rest being various background and aftermath issues which should belong in Aliyah Bet article (such as later policies on immigration). The size of Aliyah Bet article is 30kb, while the size of One Million Plan article is 30kb as well, even though the notability of the never-executed plan is practically meaningless outside the scope of the Aliyah Bet itself.
GreyShark (
dibra)
19:03, 11 October 2015 (UTC)reply
I just now noticed that Oncenawhile also put this article in the Aliya sidebar template as well. Talk about a POV push.
I see your point about the merge. I think the Aliya article is really underdeveloped, and can benefit from parts of the history section of the OMP article if nothing else.
No More Mr Nice Guy (
talk)
21:06, 11 October 2015 (UTC)reply
They are different subjects. One Million Plan is a detailed and well sourced article. The bibliography is clear evidence of its notability.
Why don't you like the One Million Plan article? You appear to be on a campaign to hide it. It seems to be a very emotional and possibly personal subject for you.
You're confusing your wish to splash this historical anecdote all over the encyclopedia with other people's wish to give it DUE weight. That's ignoring your complete misunderstanding of the subject matter when you originally wrote the article. Talk about emotional and possibly personal.
No More Mr Nice Guy (
talk)
00:00, 12 October 2015 (UTC)reply
My wish is that is has due weight. So we are aligned.
Greyshark would apparently like to expunge it completely. This, together with his previous edits, suggest he is determined to paint the Arab world as being full of hateful anti-semites who are to blame for everything. It is a real shame - it is exactly that dangerous attitude that puts our society at risk. If you choose to consider the wider context, there will be less hate and more understanding.
The more I think about this suggestion, the more absurd it is. Where in the One Million Plan was illegal immigration a primary factor? Combining it with this article would be pure SYNTH.
Wrong question. For this merge proposal to have any merit you need to establish that the One Million Plan explicitly referred to illegal immigration. Your second sentence above (starting "it's not like...") is a classic case of synth.
Oncenawhile (
talk)
21:13, 14 October 2015 (UTC)reply
Correct, on which topic you have shown nothing but SYNTH to support the above proposal. Since this discussion is clearly ridiculous, I will let others comment.
Oncenawhile (
talk)
22:16, 15 October 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment - reinstalling the proposal. Actually it has already had majority in favor of the merge, but perhaps more opinions are benefitial.
GreyShark (
dibra)
19:55, 10 February 2019 (UTC)reply
You've had 3.5 years to come up with answers to the challenges above - i.e. that there is no evidence that One Million Plan was intended to be "Aliyah Bet" (i.e. illegal immigration). Unless you can bring a source, this proposal is OR/SYNTH.
Don't merge - I'm not convinced that this plan comes under the rubric of illegal immigration. Did the Zionist leaders seriously think they could increase the number of immigrants by more than a factor of 10 without official sanction? At a time when most immigrant ships were being intercepted? It is an extraordinary claim that needs explicit sourcing.
Zerotalk03:44, 6 October 2019 (UTC)reply
Don't merge. These are separate subjects, a plan that was never implemented versus mostly haphazard illegal immigration which did.
Zerach (
talk)
06:13, 6 October 2019 (UTC)reply
Re: Timeline; the Patria sunk twice in October, 1940?
What are their precise definitions? Is
Fifth Aliyah the first, pre-WWII part of Aliyah Bet, with a second part after 1939, maybe also with a distinction between wartime (1939-45) and post-WWII (1945-48) periods? Or is this just a false impression arising from reading the enWiki articles' intros/leads? Without clear definitions and classifications, everything becomes useless and confusing. Once this is clarified, we will need better cross-referencing between the two articles.
Arminden (
talk)
13:48, 13 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Illegal Immigrant or Asylum seeker?
I feel that the wording "illegal immigrant" is not accurate. They were refugees fleeing persecution - which is an asylum seeker under the UN definition. Using the term "illegal immigrant" is not correct in this instance.
The illegality (according to the law established by the Mandate administration) is the thing that distinguishes this from the regular Jewish immigration which had greater numbers. That's the justification for having this article at all.
Zerotalk09:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply