This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Material from George Carteret was split to Statue of George Carteret on 21 August 2021. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. Please leave this template in place to link the article histories and preserve this attribution. |
It seems that this article is not at all correct in the lineage department but I want to get someone else to look at this piece of information first.
On the 17th of February either 1648, or 1649. The names Elias Dumaresq is a Juror in Sir George Carteret's court. Sir George Carteret is listed as the Lieutenant Governor with Helier de Carteret listed as the Attorney General within the NOTES section on page 349. The reason I report this is to determine if this is simply not the case of a hastily devised article. It seem as in the LIVE article the ==Early Life== section for Sir George Carteret is reporting Elias Dumaresq and Elizabeth Dumaresq as the parents of Sir George Carteret, incorrectly so.
Accessing the following book:
An Account of the island of Jersey With an Appendix of Records, etc. By The Reverend Philipe Falle To Which Are Added, Notes and Illustrations By Reverend Edward Durell, M.A. Rector of Saint Saviour, Jersey 1834
This is the search that generates the correct page to see the referenced material in context. Since the correct name for this person is George de Carteret, should that not be used instead of his styled name?
Once you have viewed this piece, simply modify the search to see much more on the De Carteret family. Unless I get an update by end-of-day today, I plan to modify the document to comply with the historic record.
Kindly, VoodooShamen ( talk) 15:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Would be good if someone could tie George to the other Carteret's, starting with John and following to various Seigneurs of Sark (snark snark). All I know is that George's first son was Philip who was the first governor of New Jersey (well, not quite first - Col. Richard Nicolls had governed it after conquest without knowing that it had already been given to Carteret and Berkeley. Boy did THAT cause trouble later when the proprietors tried to get quitrents from the original Nicolls patentess, who...but I digress)
The second son of George, James, staged a coup in 1672 when Philip was back in England, but that only lasted just over a year.
Them's all the Carteret's I know about, so perhaps someone could identify the link between George and the first of those Sarks: Hellier De Carteret.
ArloBee 02:49 27 May 2003 (UTC) Hellion of Cologne, New Jersey.
Does anyone know, for sure, where he was born? In Jersey, or elsewhere? Danrok ( talk) 21:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
This URL is used in many places [2], but it is a subscription website. So, of little use. Danrok ( talk) 22:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
In an edit yesterday by Salvio, there is a portion of the article that suggests that "this" george at age 13 commanded the HMS Mary Rose as he was born circa 1610 and commanded the ship in 1623 per the commands section of the article. This article needs to be rewritten. The information here is not reliable. The information below does more to correct the article without the references being used. There is a large body of resource in a number of places that contradict the information being added to this article.
There is a discrepancy in the birth year of George Carteret and his father's name. Sir George Carteret, Baronet, was born on the Island of Jersey in 1599, his father is reported as Helier Carteret, Lord Deputy Governor of Jersey at the time.
At the onset of the English Civil War George retired from the Royal Navy and withdrew to Jersey where he fought the Parliamentarians. In Jersey, George received the Prince of Wales and then Charles II and his devout following. Upon Charles II's ousting by Oliver Cromwell, George Carteret followed the ousted King to France in 1652 where he was captured and thrown in the Bastile in 1657 in a charge by Oliver Cromwell's ambassador and banished from France. George arrived in Brussels in 1659 as King Charles II was preparing to return and regain control over Parliament and remove the Roundheads or Protestants of Cromwell from power. George was a part of the King's entourage that ascended on London in 1660. Sir George Carteret was appointed Vice Chairman of the Privy Council and given authority as the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy. In 1665 George and his associations made their way to the colonies and landed in what is now New Jersey. DATE elected to represent Portsmouth. In 1668 George was appointed to the Board of Trade and in 1669 expelled from the House of Commons on charges of embezzlement. By 1673 George was appointed one of the Lords of the Admiralty and continued to occupy office until his death on the 14th of January, 1679 when he died at Whitehall. The Baronet's remains are interred at Haynes,_Bedfordshire previously named Hawnes in the County Town of Bedford.
I suggest changing the information within the Sir_George_Carteret,_1st_Baronet to reflect the corrected information.
VoodooShamen ( talk) 14:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Where has the name Elias appeared from? As far as I can see, Sir George Carteret, 1st Baronet father's name is Helier de Carteret. It may be that he was also known as Elias. Danrok ( talk) 19:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
OK, now I have found some info which should be reliable, here [3]
His father is called Elie de Carteret according to that, and I can find references to an Elie de Carteret Vincheles (Vinchelez in St Ouen) here [4] Danrok ( talk) 16:23, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is another reference to a Wikipedia article that expands this to some degree and notes that a 14 year old became Baron_Carteret. Thus, I believe we are on the right trail.
Also, it seems to me, a genealogist and historian that there may be a more strait forward issue with this person and the name Helier versus Elias, or Elie. If as is the case, the name is French in origin, would it make more sense that the name Helier may be transliterated as Elier, Elias, or even Elie. I mean the "H" in French would more closely represent a "SILENT" letter as would the ending letter of "R" whereby the H and R would have been dropped by matter of the phonetic pronunciation in the form of an English name for the name (H)elie(R)? Just an observation as we approach Anglicization of the French name.
VoodooShamen ( talk) 17:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
I will make rewrites to the 3 articles in the next 3-4 days.
VoodooShamen ( talk) 17:27, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
That makes some sense, and the Latin for Helier is Helerius which of course sounds like Elias. Danrok ( talk) 12:18, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Article has been moved a few times, without discussion. Unless someone offers a good counterargument, seems to me the examples of Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette and Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington should guide. Aristocrats, whether by inheritance or creation, are called by both proper name and title. Jim.henderson ( talk) 18:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Jim,
So we have the referenced materials for the Marquis de Lafayette, Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, etc. and then your retraction. I think this talk page is out of date or something. In any event please update the talk page with the next actions.
Change the aforementioned pages to reflect only the given name and change the subject of this talk session to be the same. Would you say that is correct?
You know, it does, as I ponder it, make a great deal more sense to use the name and the various titles held in peerage, or otherwise under the person's given name. There are tons of examples in every direction.
So I see a basic three tiered approach. The Person Document > The Honorary Title Document such as Baron, Duke, Knight, etc.? with iiluminating text in a section such as ===Early Life=== or perhaps ===Nobility Titles=== or something along those lines. > Linking to other Wikipedia articles to support the refined association from one article to another.
I await your direction on how to proceed.
Kindly, Allen
75.189.246.44 ( talk) 14:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC) 75.189.246.44 ( talk) 14:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC) VoodooShamen (Forgot to refresh LOGIN.)
Yeah, I am with Mr. Henderson here. I do not want to move the articles, but I would like the articles to be connected to one another and in the proper form and consistency using Mr. Henderson's examples.
I will then commit to making the changes uniform throughout the three articles. I will also make complete references to what ever materials I use to iron this subject out in a more clear and precise manner and make intelligent choices for linking to other articles illuminating the subject matter.
VoodooShamen ( talk) 18:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
His name on the first line of the lead doesn't look right to me. I'm not sure that there should be a semicolon in there. For example: Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope (No semicolon). Danrok ( talk) 19:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
… needs fixing.
‘He stayed in exile in France for a six years until he was imprisoned in 1657, thence he ventured to Venice’
’for a six years’?
And thence ventured to Venice. For how long was he imprisoned? Where? Date of move to Venice? 110.144.207.57 ( talk) 03:26, 5 April 2024 (UTC)