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From the article: "The theory was prominent during the 1960s and 1970s, and some modified versions of the theory have developed and are still currently popular." This is included in high school sociology textbooks.
Support only swap. We already list 16 varieties of Chinese. I suggest swapping
Huizhou Chinese which has only 5 million speakers, compared to Taiwanese Mandarin having 4,6 million first language and 15 million second language speakers. --
Makkool (
talk) 12:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
A bit above we are discussing adding "The mythical founder of the first Korean kingdom." (3:0 right now). Well, ok, here's the Polish equivalent. 21 interwikis. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)reply
What's the difference between the two?? The
Blue Rider 14:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Indeed. I think they need a merge discussion. If there is a difference, it is not clear from the article. There is a hatnote that says "This article is about specific discriminatory actions and processes. For the broader concept, see Racism." yet I fail to see the difference. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 13:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I interpret racism to be the ideology and racial discrimination to be the implementation of these racist ideas in the real world. I think they should be two separate articles but I agree that from the way both articles are written, it is extremely confusing.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 04:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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Support but disagree with placing it as a subtopic of management, which in its default and common meaning refers to managing people. Asset management is a subtopic of corporate finance (a key service that many banks and other financial institutions perform around the world).
Gizza(
talk) 23:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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Support - to have companies like
Oracle Corporation5 who mainly sell CRM software as a company listed but not the overarching concept itself is wrong.
Gizza(
talk) 01:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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Wanted to propose this myself a few weeks back and completely forgot so thanks for this (though I think the page should just be renamed to library science).
Aurangzebra (
talk) 06:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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A major type of business which facilitates all sorts of transactions. Place under Business.
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The money gained by platforms such as
Uber5,
Airbnb5, or
Apple Inc.4's
App Store (Apple) when facilitating transactions between a seller and a buyer. Apple in particular got into quite a lot of controversy recently with the EU with regards to how much commission it charges software developers.
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A historically important means of
Trade2 which remains common in less-developed societies.
An important concept (even if anthropologists have shown that this doesn't really happen).
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
One of economic anthropology's insights is that barter is historically rare. Non-market exchange is usually in the form of a
gift economy.
Tabu Makiadi (
talk) 00:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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Social interaction redirects here. Different social interactions combine to form a
Social network4. I think it's an important concept in Social studies.
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One of the most common processes around the world.
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Can someone explain to me why despite being a culture well-known for their religious reverence towards cats, we don’t have the Ancient Egyptian Goddess of Cats on here?
Definitely not an accurate statement, one of the main deities of
Egyptian mythology4. The
Blue Rider 19:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
Can this be closed already? It's been almost three months.
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 22:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
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Right now, we only have two articles listed under African mythological figures. I think we can afford having at least one or two more. The Orishas are the de facto pantheon of
Santería,
Candomblé, and the original
Yoruba religion. (I know that they’re just spirits who are only worshipped like gods due to how distant the actual one is.) If possible, I would like to nominate one of the Orishas by themselves. Out of all of them, I think Shango is the most well-known. NOTE: Proposal now includes Oshun, per Makkool.
Support. If we would add Shango, then
Oshun would warrant a place as well as a female Orisha (and her article states that "
Oshun is one of the most popular and venerated Orishas"). --
Makkool (
talk) 06:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Probably the most famous ballet to come from the United States. Composed by
Aaron Copland4, choreographed by
Martha Graham4, had sets designed by
Isamu Noguchi5, won Pulitzer Prize for Music.
Usually held to be the magnum opus for
Serge Gainsbourg4. Other than Trans Europa Express (which has an English version) and the Miles Davis albums (which are instrumentals), all of the albums listed are in English. Of all the non-English albums we have articles for, this is probably the most vital.
These two song are stated in the intro of jazz standard to be one of the most covered songs of all time. Admittedly, the “Stardust” article does a much better job explaining its vitality than “Caravan”’s article.
I also noticed that we don’t have any compilation albums on here as well. Now, unlike live albums, I don’t think it’s necessary to have any compilations on here. That said, I do feel like that these three are at least important enough to worth discussion on including to this list.
First, we got King of the Delta Blues Singers by
Robert Johnson4. For a lot of people like
Bob Dylan4,
Keith Richards5,
Robert Plant5, and
Eric Clapton5 this was the first time they’ve heard of Johnson, and boy did it changed their lives forever. I think it’s safe to say rock would’ve been a completely different beast if this album has not been released.
The last one is admittedly the weakest of the three. I’m only mentioning this because I believe that this is usually held to be the greatest Christmas album ever made. A fine example of the
Wall of Sound championed by
Phil Spector5. Has very nice renditions of “Frosty the Snowman”, “Sleigh Ride”, and “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” by
The Ronettes5, and brought us “
Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)”.
All have 6 interwikis, suggesting lack of cross-cultural signficance. starship.paint 08:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Per above. Also, if these are to be added only to include compilation albums, we should hold for now. --
Makkool (
talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply
There were three main stratigies applied by the US during the Cold War, détente, containment and rollback. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Détente is a strategy aimed at relaxing tensions between two countries. It was first utilized by the Kennedy administration during the
Cuban Missile Crisis4, which ultimately led to the establishment of
the red telephone. This approach was further employed by Richard Nixon, resulting in the negotiation of several important treaties, including the
Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and the
Helsinki Accords (both should also be added). Détente played a crucial role in bringing an end to the Vietnam War and contributed to the improvement of relations between the US and China, ultimately leading to China's entrance into the United Nations. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Containment was a strategy aimed at halting the spread of communism, largely driven by the belief in the
domino theory (which should also be added). With the fall of China, Cuba, and other nations to communism, Harry Truman, through his
Truman Doctrine5, initiated interventions in multiple countries that were on the brink of succumbing to communism. These interventions included the
Greek Civil War5, the
Korean War4, the
Vietnam War4,
Guatemalan Civil War5, among others. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The final strategy, and the most aggressive one, involved actively intervening in communist countries with the aim of changing their regimes. This approach was primarily utilized by Reagan and the Bushes administrations. It resulted in interventions such as the
Bay of Pigs Invasion5, support for the
Contras in Nicaragua, the
United States invasion of Grenada5, and more recently, the
United States invasion of Afghanistan. The
Blue Rider 13:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)reply
For centuries, the imperial examination system profoundly influenced Imperial China's society, determining social status and governance. It provided a path for social advancement based on merit. It legitimized the ruling dynasty, ensured political stability, and reinforced cultural norms through its emphasis on Confucian ideology. However, it perpetuated gender inequality by excluding women. And was apperently important for Chinese mythology (see
Imperial examination in Chinese mythology). All the elite of Imperial China was a
jinshi, the highest degree of the exam. In essence, the imperial examination system shaped Chinese society, governance, and culture, leaving a lasting impact on its civilization. The
Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Feminist: You seem to take an interest on East Asia as well, so I would appreciate your input, be it positive or negative! Thank you. The
Blue Rider 14:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Well, I very much disliked the subject of
History of China4 at school. Where would you put it on the list? It feels more like a
history topic to me.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 15:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Although we do have
William Hanna5 and
Joseph Barbera5 on here along with some shows, I still think we need the company. They’re responsible for a large chunk of American TV animation (and for some periods, most of it).
I will admit, I’ve been going overboard with my specific musical works suggestion, so this is going to be my last one for the time being. It is sort of weird to nominate something that’s not representative of the artist usual work (of
Outkast’s possible vital works that are, you know, hip-hop, it’s either “
B.O.B” or Aquemini), but this song is still being praised to high-heaven as being one of the greatest songs ever made. It was already noticeable for being the youngest song to appear on the
Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time when it was ranked at #182; the newest version has this at #10. To make up for my lack of swaps in my proposals, I volunteer “Crazy in Love” for removal, as that song came out the same year as this.
What makes Hey Ya! more vital than B.O.B or Ms. Jackson? The
Blue Rider 15:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Again, the massive amount of praise it gets compared to those songs. I will say though that it does look like "B.O.B" is getting more critical acclaim as time goes on.
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 18:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I hesitate to agree that "an extremely widespread social system" is automatically grounds for vitality inclusion. Patriarchy is a term that can be applied to many social systems, but it's one of many terms; it's similar to, say,
Capitalism3 or
Democracy3 in this regard. Not all such terms which can be used to describe "extremely widespread" phenomena are vital. But in any case, patriarchy is a major concept in both anthropology and sociology which is suitable for V5.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 01:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)reply
per above. starship.paint 09:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Most policies are implemented by governments, so it is right for
Public policy4 to be at a higher level than Policy. However, thinks like "staff policy" and "insurance policy" exist and are common.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 12:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Thomas Malthus's magnum opus, continues to shape economic theory and social policy; from the decay of the
English Poor Laws, to the works and ideas of important philosophers and economists, such as
David Ricardo4 and
Adam Smith3. His ideas,
Malthusianism5, that come from the book, explore the relationship between population growth and resources, has influenced debates on birth control, income distribution, and sustainable development. Malthus's insights remain relevant today, informing discussions on global challenges like climate change and poverty alleviation. The
Blue Rider 18:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 18:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The Rechtsstaat, originating in German
Jurisprudence4, embodies principles of legal certainty, equality before the law, and protection of individual rights. This principle depends on the
Separation of powers4, ensuring
Judicial independence5 and impartiality. It emphasizes the rule of law as a safeguard against arbitrary government actions, ensuring that legal processes are transparent, predictable, and fair. The doctrine has influenced constitutionalism and legal theory globally, contributing to the development of democratic governance and the protection of human rights in diverse countries
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 14:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Don't really have a great explanation for why I oppose besides the fact that this just seems much less important than the other film topics we currently list. Prosthetic makeup feels like a part of the movie making experience in the same way that
craft service is: it is ubiquitous in movie productions but not necessarily a V5-vital topic. And the Academy Award category is for makeup/
Cosmetics4 in general, not just prosthetic makeup.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 11:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I guess the main difference is that the audience can see prosthetic makeup as it is applied, whereas craft service is more of a backstage thing that readers are less likely to care about. But point taken regarding this being relatively niche among film topics compared to what we currently list.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 11:48, 11 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Lebensraum, a geopolitical concept coined by
Friedrich Ratzel, that posits that territories are living organisms and, as so, need to expand in order to provide for their population. This idea was notably adopted and distorted by the Nazi Party during World War II to justify their aggressive expansionist policies. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime used the concept of Lebensraum to justify their invasions and annexations of neighboring territories, particularly in Eastern Europe, under the pretext of securing land for the German people. This expansionist ideology was a key component of Nazi propaganda and played a significant role in shaping the course of World War II. The
Blue Rider 17:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 17:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't think we need any libraries that are not national libraries at this level. I think
Library of Congress is sufficient for US libraries.
Interstellarity (
talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Strong oppose. We should have two American libraries, and it is the world’s fourth largest at 55 million catalogued items.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 01:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
OhnoitsvileplumeXD: Different sources have different criteria regarding how big libraries are. NYPL is the second biggest by catalog size, but BPL is the largest by volumes held. I think this is something we should consider when deciding what to remove an add.
Interstellarity (
talk) 13:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Interstellarity: I was just going off
List of largest libraries, where only the catalogue size is listed. I still see the NYPL as more vital, as it has double the interwikis and triple the daily views.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 13:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
OhnoitsvileplumeXD: I found these articles at
here and
here. One article has the NYPL as larger and the other has BPL as larger, but if you still think NYPL is more vital, I’ll respect your opinion on that.
Interstellarity (
talk) 14:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
An important healthcare industry. Only 1 interwiki and
13 daily views last year – I'm surprised, but I guess it's because the term "deathcare" is more of an American concept. Is there something I'm missing here?
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An important type of facility which helps preserve bodies.
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A dead human body, also known as a corpse. Can be used by students and scientists to study anatomy and diseases, and also has a major role in popular culture. Probably more of a medicine/biology topic but since I'm doing a bulk nomination I'll place it here anyway.
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A common broad concept denoting situations where a person or a group of people face psychological stress. This can go under Psychology, or it can go under Society (next to
Disaster5).
Why do we live? An existential crisis is a feeling that most people will experience at some point in their life. Hugely influential in society and culture.
Society reacts differently to people committing crimes when they are underage. It's an important area in
Criminology4 with influences from the family environment and peers, and differences in how they are tried (e.g.
Juvenile court) and punished (e.g. juvenile homes rather than prisons) to reflect their different level of cognitive development.
The age one must be in order to be capable of committing an offence. If one is too young, one is presumed to not be able to tell whether something should be wrong or not. An important concept comparable to, say,
Age of consent4.
At what age do you become an adult? Different societies think differently on this, but it's usually somewhere between 18 and 21. An important concept which relates to whether you can drink, consent to sexual activity, and be liable for criminal acts (see nomination above).
Striking is the primary way
Hand-to-hand combat (nominated above) is conducted, but it should be listed separately because variations of strikes are also employed in
Martial arts3 and combat sports.
A
strike (nominated above) conducted with the fist. It is used in most martial arts and combat sports, and is the only type of offensive technique allowed in
Boxing4.
Not on the same pair as, say, sex on the beach, cosmopolitan, margarita, piña colada. Not a widely drank cocktail, since its too contained in Southern United States. Only 17 interwikis links.
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
per nom. starship.paint 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Niche cocktails need to go
Gizza(
talk) 02:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Too american centric, especially when we already list
American whiskey5. According to the article, it is legally defined as
Bourbon whiskey5 in some international trade agreemeents, so the overlap is big. Not a major type of whiskey in general; only 14 interwikis links.
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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The former is decades older and
has better claims of vitality, and they have sold a similar amount. Cardcaptor Sakura feels a somewhat questionable inclusion to me, seeming not quite popular/acclaimed/influential/famous enough to be preferred over something like
Berserk (manga) or even
Monster (manga) (which are scored into the top 10 of various manga sites by their users).
(I initially thought about replacing Cardcaptor with Berserk but eventually decided on a shoujo-shoujo swap, and I'm wondering a bit whether some of Berserk's
vitality claims might be too inspired by the 2021 death of its author.)
Heralded within the newly constructed
The Crystal Palace, millions of people visited the world's fair. This venue served as a showcase for the pioneering innovations of the
First Industrial Revolution, namely the
Hydraulic press,
Steam engine3, and
Spinning machine. Its significance extended far beyond the exhibition, as it became a beacon of enlightenment, spreading a wealth of knowledge and inspiration to nations across the globe. The
Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
World's fair4 is a level 4 article, surely examples of world's fair merit an inclusion in level 5. The
Blue Rider 10:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I would support swapping World's fair for
Exhibition at level 4. Plus, we have many articles listed at V4 for which we don't list subtopics or examples at V5. I guess I just generally support having more common noun topics and less
Proper noun5 ones.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 12:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Like the Great Exhibition, the world's fair drew in millions upon millions of visitors. The event saw the birth of iconic landmarks like the
Eiffel Tower4. Renowned figures such as
Thomas Edison3 and
Nikola Tesla3 were present. The fair served as a way to spread of knowledge, inspiring the generations to come. The
Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The same rationale as the previous ones but applied to the United States.
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)reply
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The parent organization is more important than a library it is served by.
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One of the longest-ruling dominant parties in the world, in a country with a population of over 100 million. Also, Latin American parties are unrepresented.
The most powerful political force for decades in one of the states party to the one of the world's longest-running conflicts. We also list both the
Palestine Liberation Organization5 and
Hamas5.
There are three types of goods in economics,
private goods,
common goods and public goods. Public goods are of the interest of the state and are specially important in
welfare states. They are also widely studied in the field of economics because they have a grand influence in the policies of a state; one must decide whether to allocate resources toward public goods provision through taxation and government spending or to leave their provision to the private sector, considering factors such as efficiency, equity, and the role of government in promoting societal welfare. The
Blue Rider 15:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 15:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Since my attempt to remove "
We Are the Champions” failed, I am now advocating for the addition of "We Will Rock You". Again, I don't think you can choose one song over the other; these songs are almost always played back to back.
I might support a swap with some other song, but oppose a straight-up addition. We are getting over-quota in Arts.
Makkool (
talk) 16:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
I fully agree that this song is V5 worthy, but per above comments, artists and associated works is an extremely bloated area and its making me hesitant to support an addition without super good reasoning. If we can have five or six different albums from
The Beatles3, I think we can have a third song from
Queen (band)4. On the other hand though, music could probably use a full cleanup, like what we just did video games. λNegativeMP1 02:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Important concept in science and fiction, 49 interwikis. Almost 7k daily pageviews. Not sure which section to add this too, suggestions welcome. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 23:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Widely used framework that companies utilize to help decision-making, specifically their strenghts (S), weaknesses (W), opportunities (O) and threats (T); 57 interwikis. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Another widely used framework that companies utilize to know their macro-environmental factors, such as political (P), economic (E), social (S) and technological (T); sometimes it is extended as PESTEL to include other factors. 35 interwikis. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Finally, a widely method used to get a sense of the competition a company is facing. It includes, threat of new entrants, threat of substitutes, bargaining power of customers, bargaining power of suppliers and competitive rivalry. 34 interwikis. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Per nom. Very famous framework in business.
Aszx5000 (
talk) 10:43, 2 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Discuss
So many European Union-related oversights!
I'm sure there are more articles that could be added but this is what I gathered from a quick glance. Also, I'm only going to provide very brief reasonings since I don't have the patient to do longer ones as of now. The
Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)reply
A declaration that was fulcral to the creation of the
European Coal and Steel Community5, would put it on the same level as the
Fourteen Points. It is more important than you think, 47 interwikis!
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Inspired by a book that I can't remember by Kant, the Fourteen Points of Woodrow Wilson dictated the domestic and external policy of the United States and of many other countries! It is famous for proposing the creation of the
League of Nations4.
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I think this is pretty important.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 01:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Fraktur is just one type of Blackletter typefaces. It is by far the most famous one, but the article also mentions that the term "Fraktur" is also used to refer to the entire Blackletter group of typefaces.
In the removal discussion for
The Human Condition (film series), I noted that film/series seemed less vital than Harakiri, a film by the same director, which has a 100% ranking on Rotten Tomatoes and is the highest ranked film on
Letterboxd. It's also in the
TSPDT top 1000.
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Considered a landmark in animated film, and one that continues to have a long-lasting legacy.
per nom. I mentioned in the now-archived thread to remove
Wall-E that my top candidate for replacing it was
Fantasia (1940 film) but it didn't get much traction. Hopefully, there is more support this time around.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 18:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Hugely influential on the documentary film as a format, "It was the first feature-length documentary to achieve commercial success, proving the financial viability of the genre and inspiring many films to come".
Proved that documentaries could make money and was among the first films chosen for preservation by Congress.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 15:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
I'm apt to oppose films that people who aren't extreme cinephiles typically haven't heard of. Also, I feel like, in general, it requires a much higher standard of notability to include documentaries on this list as documentaries are much less influential in the cultural zeitgeist than regular movies. If we are really looking to add another documentary, I would rather add
Bowling for Columbine which has much more of a cultural legacy, is way more well-known, has won more awards (though this is less impressive when compared to a movie from 1922), and is regularly considered one of the greatest documentaries of all time.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 20:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I would support adding Bowling for Columbine as well.
Iostn (
talk) 23:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
"Open City is considered one of the most important and representative works of
Italian neorealism5, and an important stepping stone for Italian filmmaking as a whole."
We already have a better, much more famous representative for Italian neorealism with
Bicycle Thieves4. We probably don't need 2. And even with the expanded quota, our film section is so small that we should probably only be listing unambiguous classics or widely-known films. It doesn't even have a Legacy section.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 20:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I am explicitly proposing films because I think the section is disproprtionately small compared to video games (which is at ~100), when films have been around for much longer (1890s vs 1970s) and have built up much more cultural influence over time. Besides, Bicycle Thieves is listed a tier above this already.
Iostn (
talk) 18:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that films should have more representation especially when compared to video games (I have a track record of complaining about how many video game articles we have), I just don't think this is anywhere close to being one of the best candidates.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 18:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Maybe recent(ist), but this has already risen as one of the most highly-regarded films of the 21st century, and has had an impact on "conscious" trends in film in recent years.
We're over quota in Level 5. While we are still adding broadly relevant concepts like
Voting5, I can't support adding one-off films like this one. starship.paint 13:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
VA5 is currently below quota, its only has 49,958 as of the latest update.
Iostn (
talk) 15:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
But Arts is over-quota at 3,322/3,300. Currently specific films are at 199, and customarily we had at the number of vital films at 200. I would support your suggestions, if paired with films to swap.
Makkool (
talk) 16:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I was actually personally in favour of a higher quota for films, given we had one of 105 for video games which is a much more recent medium and therefore one with less titles that are as culturally influential, but I can propose some other removals from Arts.
Iostn (
talk) 19:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Jumping into this quite late but I would support removing video games in favor of adding more movies. I think our massive list of video game articles reflects the demographics of VA5 voters as opposed to all Wikipedia users whereas movies are a more global phenomenon.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 06:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Iostn:, I stand corrected, I did not know about the recent update. Still, I agree with Makkool. starship.paint 08:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
As far as I'm aware, we don't list a single Indian movie. We definitely should have one and this is probably the best candidate since
Satyajit Ray4 has been highly influential in global cinema.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 20:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oh completely missed that. As the most famous movie in that trilogy, I'll still support this proposal.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 20:34, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Arguably the biggest animated film of the 2000s, became a lasting cultural phenomenon and turned
DreamWorks into one of the biggest animated film studios. Also note it being the first 21st century animated film in the
National Film Registry.
For the "art film" subsection, this is one of the most well-known non-narrative
essay films of its kind, is highly-acclaimed and also went on to influence works such as
Baraka (film). Also highly notable for its score by
Philip Glass4, from the music section; "The music has become so popular that the Philip Glass Ensemble has toured the world, playing the music for Koyaanisqatsi live in front of the movie screen".
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An early form of comics without speech bubbles. A niche topic, with 300 or so page views in the last 30 days.
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A specific technique used in making pottery. A short stub article on a niche topic, which isn't vital to understand the whole concept of pottery.
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An important form in prehistoric art, but
Ivory carving is a much more vital topic as a whole and we don't list it. Would possibly swap, or rather just remove.
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This U.S. organization only existed for three years and was largely superseded by the CIA.
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Added 4-0, no comments in a week. starship.paint 09:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
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Added 4-0, no comments in a week. starship.paint 09:09, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
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There are too many "vital" video games
Sports, games and recreation is currently 33 articles over quota, with 1,233 articles listed as vital. Around 14-15% of these 1.2k articles are video game related subjects, which we list 177 of. 100 of these are individual video games or series (roughly 8% of all listings here). While I think all concept articles we list are pretty fair listings and I wouldn't change any of them, I think that there needs to be a reconsideration of what series or individual video games truly qualify to be among the most important subjects for an encyclopedia.
Let's say that this list is being looked at again in 100 years. In 100 years, games like
Super Mario Bros.5 or
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time5 will almost certainly be relevant due to their undeniable impact on the industry, and the same applies to their parent franchises, but will
Undertale be relevant by then when there's no evidence to support it had an industry impact even 9 years after its release? I get that it could be hard to determine what falls under
WP:RECENTISM with video games especially, and making assumptions like this could violate
WP:CRYSTALBALL, but its probably good to assume that, if a game doesn't have evidence for industry wide impact only a few years after release and was simply just successful, it likely won't have an impact seen across the industry a century after release.
Another issue here is the lack of representation of listings from areas that aren't Japan or the United States. Even if those areas certainly have more video games originating from them than anywhere else, surely there are some more video games from/popular in Asia that could be considered for vitality. I think the video game quota could possibly be reduced. I don't see an issue with any concept articles we list (since those remaining relevant is basically guaranteed), but the individual series or games could probably be reduced from 105 (which I believe is the max quota?) to a number like 70. Even without a reduction, I think what video games are considered vital needs to be reconsidered as a whole anyways. I would like to hear what y'all think of my concerns and/or proposals for reducing the list amount. λNegativeMP1 20:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
We no longer use quotas for subtopics within the list, like video games. I would support removing some games that are only listed for their popularity and not for any cultural or industry influence, but I think that the former arguably applies to Undertale. Swapping some individual games with concept articles could also be a good idea.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 21:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Either way, we still have a quota for the entire subcategory, and reducing how many video games we have would help us meet the quota instead of overshooting. Undertale has no more cultural influence than something like Five Nights at Freddy's, which has been rejected for vitality several times, so why Undertale got the pass doesn't make sense to me. Neither should be listed. λNegativeMP1 21:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
You might be right. FNaF is arguably just as influential. I'm neutral on this one for now.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 21:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree, Undertale is a completely irrelevant game that barely anyone has ever heard of; close to zero long-term impact. Make the proposals and I will support them. The
Blue Rider 21:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Ok, saying that barely anyone has heard of it is blatantly wrong. Its music was even played in front of Pope Francis!
QuicoleJR (
talk) 21:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, but I would argue it'd be irrelevant in 100 years. Again,
WP:RECENTISM. λNegativeMP1 22:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Completely agree. I've mentioned this on another thread but I feel like the demographic that participates in these discussions is more predisposed to video game culture and therefore tends to overweight video-game related topics. I myself am probably guilty of this when it comes to topics I'm more interested in but it is important that we are aware of our own biases when we vote.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 23:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I think it would be a good idea to use some of these newly freed slots for movies and books, which are often more influential and which have a longer history as mediums.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 00:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If you are interested in voting on films (formerly capped at 200 subquota, while games had 105) I already proposed some above.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
QuicoleJR: Since Undertale is being proposed for removal (our only indie game listing not counting Minecraft), I'm curious if you think there's any indie games that could possibly qualify to replace it. I like the idea of having one or two indie game representatives, though I don't think Undertale quite meets the bar personally. Your thoughts? λNegativeMP1 01:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
NegativeMP1: Sorry for the late reply, but I would suggest
Stardew Valley. It is considered one of the best video games of all time, it is among the best-selling video games of all time with over 30 million copies sold, it has a pretty good 35 interwikis, and it single-handedly popularized the farming sim genre. It is one of the only indie games that I think has a decent chance of making the cut.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 15:10, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It's a game from 2016, so not even a decade old. I agree with your opinion, but saying it would be vital worthy when it's that young makes me hesitant. I feel like that if any indie game were vital it'd be something of long-lasting importance like the aforementioned
Cave Story or
Braid (video game). λNegativeMP1 17:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I broadly agree that video games are overrepsented. 120 (10% of recreation) is an appropriate target subquota IMO.
Gizza(
talk) 03:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm inclined to agree, but we're also at 174 topics in that field and it'd be really hard to figure out what 57 listings to get rid of. I feel like 150-170 is fair, since there are a few that could be removed to narrowly put it in that range. λNegativeMP1 04:03, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Per the concerns listed by me and others above, I don't believe this game truly qualifies to be among the most important subjects in an encyclopedia, let alone one of the most important video games ever. It's certainly popular, and I love it as much as the next person, but will it and its minimal industry influence be recognizable or relevant in 100 years?
Wikipedia may not exist in 100 years, but if my proposal to add FNAF failed, this shouldn't be here either.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 00:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support. I like the game, and I wish there were more indie games on this list, but it's hard to argue that Undertale had the same impact or popularity as other titles on this list. It's below other titles that are also being voted to remove, like Madden.
Mokadoshi (
talk) 01:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I have a proposal above asking for a possible indie game or two that could replace Undertale and be more qualifying for "vitality" if you'd like to chip into that discussion. λNegativeMP1 01:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Recentism, impact not yet on the level of much older games. Would probably put
Cave Story or
Spelunky as more important indie games.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Obscure videogame. The
Blue Rider 15:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I disagree that it is an "obscure" game like what user said above, but its impact doesn't last longer than we thought. 🥒
Greenish Pickle!🥒 (
🔔) 05:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
This was added
only two months ago 4-0 and I don't really see what has changed massively since then to warrant it being removed so suddently. Furthermore, there was a comment above noting that this would leave
Minecraft5 as the only represented indie game, and suggested
Cave Story or
Super Meat Boy as alternatives, but both of those are still much more niche entries than the decidedly-not-in-fact-obscure Undertale.
Iostn (
talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
I would say I am neutral on this proposal. While the game is highly praised, I am not sure if it is on the same level as Skyrim, Minecraft, and BOTW, which are all listed at the same level.
Sans and
Megalovania are very iconic to meme culture, but not at the level of
Wojak (not listed) or
Rick Astley5. It is very influential, but I'm not sure if it quite makes the VA5 list. If there was a VA6, it would undoubtedly make it there.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 00:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I'll remove my support vote given the fact that it received 4-0 support to add it to the list recently, and there are plenty of games being discussed here for removal that I don't think it's necessary.
Mokadoshi (
talk) 18:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Pro Evolution Soccer removed 11-0, while removing Madden NFL didn't receive any supports beyond the nom. Sports video game added 10-1. λNegativeMP1 17:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Madden and Pro Evolution Soccer are popular series that have made a lot of money, but I'm not seeing the impact they have had past that. The genre is very popular and full of several other examples of popular series that have made a lot of money. FIFA is the series out of all of them that has sold the most copies, so we should keep it, but I don't see a need to keep the others.
Support pes and SVG, oppose madden.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 00:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Oppose remove Madden NFL. Cultural legacy in the US is enough to warrant a place here. The Madden series is deeply intertwined with the
NFL itself. In fact, NFL players place a
great deal of stock in their Madden ratings.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose removing Madden. Netflix's High Score documentary argues that it was an important franchise on Sega's consoles in the 1990's (we list many more for Nintendo). It was also a landmark in diversity of video game characters, as it one of the first to prominently include black athletes.
Makkool (
talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose removing Madden, which is second only to FIFA in sports game franchises.
Iostn (
talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Neutral
Discuss
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This proposal might be controversial, and it's certainly a tough pick. This game was undeniably important for the time, but it has long been overshadowed by the far more influential and important
Doom (1993 video game)5 and
Quake (series)5. λNegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Weak support. J947 ‡ edits 07:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Per nom., overshadowed by later FPS's.
Makkool (
talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
One of the most important FPS games.
Kevinishere15 (
talk) 02:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I am not a big video game guy, but this was my cousin's game when we were roommates in the mid 90s. It seemed like it was a big deal. If I am still hearing about it 30 years later, it must still be.-
TonyTheTiger (
T /
C /
WP:FOUR /
WP:CHICAGO /
WP:WAWARD) 04:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Wolf3D "is widely regarded as having helped popularize the first-person shooter genre and establishing the standard" of what FPS games are, "as well as showcasing the viability of the shareware publishing model at the time". It basically created the entire genre. I'd drop Quake and leave this. --PresN 13:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose as one of the first and most influential FPSs, I would have suggested removing
Quake (series)5 instead of this.
Iostn (
talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
Wolfenstein 3D basically invented the 3D FPS genre. Games like
Fortnite5 probably wouldn't exist today without it. However, I'd argue that
Doom (1993 video game)5 was more successful in popularizing the genre. I'm inclined to think we don't need both, but at the same time, I'd say the same for having both
Need for Speed5 and
Gran Turismo (series)5 on the list. So, I'm torn unless at a later time we decide that we truly need some additional games to be removed from the list.
Mokadoshi (
talk) 22:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Not withdrawing this nomination since it still has some support, but I'm going to strike my own support on it as I've come to the conclusion it's too influential to remove the vitality of. Delisting Quake would be more warranted in that regard, though I think all three can reasonably stay, since they all had their own achievements. λNegativeMP1 00:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Definitely popular, but doesn't seem nearly as important as the other games produced by Valve. I'd vote Half-Life 2 be listed before this one (not proposing a swap, I don't think either should be listed). WPVG only lists it as Mid-importance. λNegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Pretty popular and big part of meme culture, but not at the level of Skyrim, Minecraft, or even FNaF.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 00:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Weak Support I don't see how TF 2 is still popular nowadays as what the opposed user said. 🥒
Greenish Pickle!🥒 (
🔔) 01:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I didn't say its "still popular" (regardless of how you are quantifying that), but rather that it has maintained more longevity over time compared to Overwatch, which it directly inspired and thus a lot of Overwatch's influence is by proxy influence of TF2.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oops, sorry. Thanks for explaining. Cause of this, I'll change into "weak support". 🥒
Greenish Pickle!🥒 (
🔔) 01:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Obscure game. The
Blue Rider 10:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Maybe on the surface, less well-known than some of the others, its popularity has had a lot more longevity than say
Overwatch, which it directly inspired and has already been proposed for removal. This is a case of long-term influence overweighing pure popularity.
Iostn (
talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose. The game has obviously had an influence on titles such as
Overwatch and by extension
Valorant. It also adds to the history of the industry's continued transition to free-to-play. As per
Iostn it is irrelevant what it's popularity is today, if anything, the fact that it still has some active players after all this time adds to the claim of its legacy, not the other way around. As I said below, I wouldn't oppose a swap with another game if we truly needed to.
Mokadoshi (
talk) 19:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Too new to assess long term impact, but we can always reassess this in the future using what I said in my below striked comment as a basis. λNegativeMP1 17:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Fell from grace in a big way and a lot of its influence as a "mascot shooter" is more via proxy of TF2.
Iostn (
talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
🎵 I am gonna vote any kind of support 🎵
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 00:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Discuss
I'm going to vote neutral on this one. On one hand, it served as an outlet for promoting diversity in video games and was certainly influential in that regard. On the other hand, the franchise is basically dead in the water following a sequel that nobody liked and the original game being killed. It's also only eight years old. Not voting for either option, but both sides should be considered here. Moved my vote to a support. λNegativeMP1 03:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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The third entry saw widespread success, but that's basically where it ends. The entire franchise has only sold 75 million units, and while that is nothing to scoff at, there's nothing here that leads me to believe this is a franchise that should be considered one of the most important video game subjects ever. WP:VG assesses it as only Mid-importance. λNegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Assessed by WP:VG as only Mid-importance, and the game series has sold less than ten million units combined. If we're going to pick between this and
Resident Evil5 for what horror video game series should be considered vital, I say that Resident Evil is far more important. RE seems to have proven impact on the industry, while Silent Hill does not seem to. Listing it as "vital" seems redundant. λNegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Obsure game. The
Blue Rider 10:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Horror games are big enough for two entries and I think Silent Hill is the best choice for the second.
Kevinishere15 (
talk) 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(As someone who improved a lot of RE character articles, not a bias) Silent Hill recently announced its
remake because it was inspired by Resident Evil. After dropping their gameplay reveal trailer, they met with heavy criticism, and fans had already lost hope in the franchise. Since then, the franchise isn't as popular as Resident Evil. 🥒
Greenish Pickle!🥒 (
🔔) 01:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
VA is not based on short-term trends on wherever a particular title is popular in the current moment but on long-term influence, which isn't diminished by a poorly thought out remake being announced.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Iconic horror game franchise; I'd rather prioritise listings like
Galaga5 for removal first.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 05:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Among the most influential and well-received horror game series that has spawned adaptations in other media
Silent Hill 2 in particular being among the most highly-regarded games of all time and as a thematic breakthrough for horror games.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
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Metroid Prime was already removed, and as that constitutes an entire subseries of
Metroid5, that would be the one to list. In any case, it probably isn't big enough among Nintendo's other franchises to warrant two entries here.
The main franchise itself is surely vital (being a namesake for the
Metroidvania subgenre), but is less deserving of subentries than
Final Fantasy5 (which has also one subentry).--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs)
I would argue that Metroid Prime is a more deserving sub-entry, but I'm not sure either quite pass the bar. λNegativeMP1 18:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)reply
My comment below misunderstood the proposal. I believed we were discussing removing
Metroid5. I'm fine removing
Super Metroid, as per
NegativeMP1 I don't believe this series needs a subentry.
Mokadoshi (
talk) 19:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Critically acclaimed and award winning computer rpg, but lacking an impact to the industry.
The influence of this has probably diminished over time.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Discuss
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Removed 5-0, not swapped 0-1.
Makkool (
talk) 15:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Not really sure what is special about this aside from being well-recieved and spawning Ubisoft's Tom Clancy's games. The overall
Tom Clancy5 branded franchise may count due to its longevity and spanning several different series of games, and arguably rivalling the fame of the author who inspired it but I'm not 100% sure if it makes the cut in terms of broader influence.
Somewhat agreeing with LaukkuTheGreit here. Definitely a popular and influential series, just not seeing this being highly important compared to Doom and Half-Life. λNegativeMP1 19:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Just not that important when compared to Doom, Wolfenstein, Half Life and COD.
Kevinishere15 (
talk) 02:42, 12 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Support swap
Weak support for swap As nom.
Iostn (
talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Discuss
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This didn't get enough interest. Apparently, this is more vital as a media franchise than as a video game, so I'll just boldly move this to Mass media from Specific videogames.
Makkool (
talk) 11:24, 12 June 2024 (UTC)reply
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Wonder why it's included in the first place. In no way influential, and completely derivative of Pokemon.
52 interwikis. The nom misunderstands the subject; while Digimon shares evolving monsters with Pokémon, Digimon is actually a derivative of
Tamagotchi5. The actual stories and gameplay of Digimon and Pokémon are different. Ultimately this is a popular and enduring (25+ years!) children’s franchise, spanning from
virtual pets to
video games, to anime (both
TV and movies), to manga, to card games, that has spread from Japan to nations across the world. starship.paint 00:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Maybe video games is not the right place for this? Possibly it should be listed next to Tamagotchi in Toys. We could also add
virtual pet as a top concept.
Makkool (
talk) 16:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Makkool: - it's a media franchise so it straddles several areas. If you want to move it, go ahead, I am alright. starship.paint 01:41, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Discuss
Meh, digimon was big back then, maybe not as much as pokemon but still somewhat influential. The
Blue Rider 10:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
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Less impactful than other classic arcade games. Agree with the discussion below, that page views shouldn't constitute the bulk of justifications for removal.
Makkool (
talk) 08:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Yeah, poor wording on my part – I at least should've swapped the sentences or something. I thought it too obvious that people would check articles for vitality claims and give only partial consideration to stats (even if given as justification), like I had to elaborate
here.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 09:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Perhaps I should've emphasised the lack of compelling vitality claims more explicitly (comparing with Lemmings which has e.g. influenced RTSes was more of my point), but out of those
Galaga5 is also something I'd remove.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 05:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)reply
48 interwikis, high-importance in economics and business Wikiprojects. The ideas presented by the research in this subfield have been used by governments (see the article for
nudge theory) and corporations and many famous VA5 economists such as
Daniel Kahneman5 and
Richard Thaler5 have won Nobel Prizes in Economics for their contributions to the field. Also in the public conscious due to being the subject of many chart-topping pop science books such as
Thinking Fast and Slow.
@
The Blue Rider: I think you mentioned that you would support a proposal like this so bringing it to your attention.
Aurangzebra (
talk) 18:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I did recommend somewhere to add this, thanks. The
Blue Rider 11:56, 15 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Only 19 interwikis but a critical subfield of economics. It is the study of finding a way to structure an event such that the outcome optimizes a desired social choice function. This is applied to market design (such as
spectrum auctions or student matching programs like the
National Resident Matching Program), politics (with
voting theory), and even computer networking. Maybe not that well-known outside economics but influential enough in everyday life to warrant a spot.
I personally would have chosen to remove {[VA link|Massively multiplayer online role-playing game}}, since that would have been covered enough in
Massively multiplayer online game5. λNegativeMP1 18:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I chose to keep MMORPG, because that is overwhelmingly the most common type of MMOG. We list
World of Warcraft5, but I don't think we have any vital non-rpg MMOGs.
Makkool (
talk) 18:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Gedenkdienst is a rather confusing article that can't seem to decide if its about Austria's Holocaust memorial organization or a specific phrase, but either way there isn't really anything here that seems to suggest its as important as say,
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum5, and the pageviews are very low for VA5 as well.
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh is one of the largest, oldest and most alarmingly influential nationalist paramiliatry organizations in the world that exerts a large degree of influence over Indian politics.
Superpower describes a state or supranational union that holds a dominant position characterized by the ability to exert influence or project power on a global scale. A great power is a sovereign state that is recognized as having the ability and expertise to exert its influence on a global scale. A Middle power is a state that is not a superpower or a great power, but still exerts influence and plays a significant role in international relations. These three concepts are used very often to describe countries in geopolitical discussions, which most of you are probably familiar with. All three pages are class articles. Superpower has
1,075 daily average page views,
Great power has
885 Daily average page views, and Middle power has
481. While page views aren't the only metric to use, this does show the pages do get some attention.
GeogSage (
⚔Chat?⚔) 18:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose middle power; would prefer to add
regional power since it is a more commonly used terminology in International Relations. The
Blue Rider 18:28, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
@
The Blue Rider:, I know that page views are not the best metric for importance, but regional power has an average of
168 daily page views compared to the 481 for Middle power linked above. This made me think that Middle power was the more popular term. Do you have a source on this? Also, a regional power can include great powers and middle powers in my understanding, so the two terms are not synonyms. What defines a regional power will depend on the relative power of the region it is in. Therefore, this could be "both" situation rather then "either-or," and we could try to get both regional and middle power listed. Do you have a source for which one is "more commonly used" in international relations?
GeogSage (
⚔Chat?⚔) 19:59, 17 May 2024 (UTC)reply
My source is my International Relations' bachelor's; from the literature I have read, regional power is used more often than middle power.
Google Ngram agrees with me as well. The
Blue Rider 12:59, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'll remember Google Ngram as a source for this! Thanks for responding! I have a minor in national security, and wrote a term paper on "Middle powers" back during undergrad. As one of the only geographers in the course, I was focused on the "super power", "great power", "middle power", and "
Small powers." My career has taken me far from this area of study, so I'm not exactly an expert.
I would argue based on what I'm seeing now that the "powers" I listed are based on global influence, while "regional power" would be local geographic. A power like China, (Which is debatably a superpower, and obviously a great power), is more of a "regional power" in terms of military. Thus, a country can be both a middle power and regional power, or a middle power but not a major regional power, such as the situation with Canada where they are overshadowed in many ways by their neighbor to the south. I'm not really married to that opinion though. We may need to consider adding the page
Power (international relations).
GeogSage (
⚔Chat?⚔) 18:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
On the subject of middle powers, should we remove all countries from V3 that do not fall into at least that category? Is the DRC vital for more than just population?
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 01:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I would not feel comfortable weighing in on that question one way or the other, that is quite the debate. Just clearly defining what countries are true "Middle Powers" is beyond the literature I'm aware of on the topic, which is admi. Nobody even agrees what the superpowers are, or the great powers (check the talk pages, even with sources people will fight tooth an nail over who they think should or should not be included). It could also be argued that a country is vital for more reasons then it's ability to influence geopolitics on the global stage, and that millions of people with a unique culture and government are "vital." On the DRC, the Wikipedia page notes that "The DRC is widely considered one of the world's richest countries in natural resources; its untapped deposits of raw minerals are estimated to be worth in excess of US$24 trillion. The DRC has 70% of the world's coltan, a third of its cobalt, more than 30% of its diamond reserves, and a tenth of its copper." I suspect most countries have stuff that jumps out like this that would make them "vital" to understanding geopolitics. I would likely set something like "The top 100 by population, top 100 by GDP, top 100 by land area, and all states with nuclear weapons can be included as "V3"" if I was going to have an actual rule for how to sort inclusion of countries. You could adjust the numbers if you want, but I bet that would get you slightly around 120 of the 195 countries. I don't have much of a strong opinion on this though.
I would support a few more countries at V3, namely Iraq, Peru, Afghanistan, Morocco, and possibly Austria, but I'd prefer regions over some mid-sized countries, such as
Scandinavia4 instead of Sweden, definitely the
Balkans4 instead of Romania or Greece,
Central America4 instead of Guatemala,
Central Asia4 instead of Kazakhstan, etc. My main priority for V3 is adding more cities.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 22:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Actually, the article said that it influenced several works, including
Uncle Tom's Cabin4, continued having influence into the 21st century, and helped recruit people for the abolitionist movement.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 16:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Not among the 20th century's most important novels.
Biggest claims to vitality are a brief mention of "popularity" during the author's lifetime, an only somewhat more well-known film adaptation, and influencing the career choices of
Millicent Eastwood who does not seem an important person anyway with zero interwikis. ~45 daily pageviews, 2 interwikis.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not seeing the importance.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 16:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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The article states these were only popular in the U.S. at the end of the 19th century.
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"Although Ingres remained firm in his belief that The Martyrdom of Saint Symphorian was one of his supreme achievements, it has traditionally been counted among his least successful works"
Does not appear to be an essential work in art history. Biggest claim to vitality is that the preparatory studies are "highly regarded", but I doubt that's enough. Extremely low pageviews (~11 daily), 3 interwikis.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 08:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
per above. starship.paint 02:52, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Oppose
Discuss
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This is not a subject worthy of being among the most important to an encyclopedia. If we wanted an example of internet culture for the sake of representation,
Never Gonna Give You Up and
Trollface are right there as far more important and influential memes and better examples of the culture as a whole.
I'm afraid Never Gonna Give You Up is already covered by
Rick Astley5.
Vileplume 🍋🟩 (
talk) 00:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This isn't a swap proposal, I used the two as examples of Internet culture that I think would be more "definitive" and "vital" than the frog. I do think the trollface could maybe qualify, but it'd be weak even if it would make a stronger case than the frog. λNegativeMP1 01:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
fwiw trollface was removed a
few months back. Reserving judgment on this actual proposal since I'm on the fence (I think we should have at least one example of Internet memes/culture but I'm not sure if Pepe the Frog is the best contender).
Aurangzebra (
talk) 03:01, 21 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Nothing here on what makes Romania particularly important architecturally on an international level.
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This only really seems to be listed for being the most expensive work by the artist, whereas his most well-known is the also-listed
Nighthawks (Hopper)5.
The counterpart to the recently added
Yaoi5 (doesn't display right since it was added two minutes ago), which depicts same-sex relationships between women instead of men.
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Stub. Only has three interwikis, not one of them is French.
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We don't list the articles on how other religions view marriage.
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We don't list the articles on the conversion process of other religions.
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Stub here. Stub on Arabic Wikipedia. Article outright states that it has no distinct doctrines from the other Sufi orders.
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Yes, it's one of the four noble truths, but I got to be honest, I don't think it should be its own article. Only has 5 interwikis.
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I would love to have the parent article of this guy, but his page is a borderline disambiguation one. Swap him out with the two most important forms of this deity. (Mithra is the one that the Mithraists worship, while Maitreya is a central figure in Buddhist eschatology.)
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Ruler of one of the Norses afterlife. Daughter of
Loki5 and sister of
Fenrir5 and
Jörmungandr5. Played a big role in the attempted resurrection of
Baldr5.
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We already have seven types of angels on here, plus three specific archangels. We don't need the theological views on angels from the three main Abrahamic religions.
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We already have
Lucifer5 on here, which is strictly a Christian thing. Swap him out with Iblis, the Islamic version of Satan.
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Shangri-La is probably the better known of the two, but it's a fictional location, not a mythical one. Let's swap it out for what it is probably its inspiration.
Maybe we should have a separate section for fictional locations? (including
Middle-Earth and others?)
Makkool (
talk) 12:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Is it worth it though? This and arguably
Utopia4 (although that's more a generic type of setting) are the only fictional locations we have. Also, if we decide to have a fictional location section, it's going have to be put in the arts section.
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 18:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
These items played a major role in getting
Amaterasu4 out of that cave. (I know the Japanese Imperial House claims that these are actual objects they possess.)
Lwa is the category of deities/spirits in Vodou that includes Baron Samedi. BS was randomly added by me years ago. I was familiar with the name from some movie, but I'm not an expert to know if it's vital enough to keep on the list as an example of lwa.
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All 10 under
Sefirot5. Too obscure and esoteric topic, and they take slots from other articles. (Also added by me once)
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This is a very odd inclusion to the legendary creatures section. While almost every other entries has double digit interwikis, this thing only has six.
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Not so sure, it's rated Low or Mid-importance in all of its Wikiprojects. (So is White Lady, by the way) I would rather support the most famous ghost legends like
Flying Dutchman5, rather than local ones from one country.
Makkool (
talk) 19:53, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I can support that, but that's more of a ship though. (Although we can put it under locations/items I guess.)
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 20:10, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Very, very popular maritime ghost legend. Even appeared on
SpongeBob SquarePants5. Placing it under objects since it's a ship that most people don't board.
Is a ghost ship a ghost or a ship? Mythical objects is fine, if it feels weird to list it with mythical creatures.
Makkool (
talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Basically the same blood-sucking creature (floating female head plus her internal organs) except this Thai version has more interwikis (15) than her Malay counterpart we're listing right now (8).
Support per higher count of interwikis (and pageviews). The Indonesian version
Leyak is also quite famous, but is still overshadowed by Krasue.
Makkool (
talk) 16:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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I hate to remove the goto example of angels not just being humans with wings, but the former only has 9 interwikis while every version of the latter is short.
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We don't have anyone from the Mayan pantheon, which is pretty glaring since the Maya are one of the three well-known pre-Columbian civilizations.
Maybe we could list also the umbrella term
Feathered Serpent? And place both Kukulkan and Quetzalcoatl under it?
Makkool (
talk) 16:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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Arguably the most well known demon in Mesopotamian mythology. Appeared in
The Exorcist5.
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Well known creature. Popular throughout South Asia and Southeast Asia. I'm kind of shocked that
Penanggalan and to a lesser extent
Rakshasa5 got picked over this. (Regarding its potential placement, I'm not sure if they should be placed under dragons or just be a separate entry. The original Indian are just half-snake, half-human beings, but it does seem like the Southeastern versions of the Nāga have acquired a lot dragon-like traits.)
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This is more of a motif, so I'm not sure listing this as a type of ghost is the right call. What I do think is that it's a pretty popular… whatever this is throughout Europe.
Major concept in comparative mythology. Maybe list in Mythology:General, when it's not an individual ghost?
Makkool (
talk) 11:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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16 interwikis. Spirit of three Southeast Asian countries. Goes against systemic bias. Plus we are swapping out
Penanggalan above from these countries, so good to restore some representation. starship.paint 14:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
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42 interwikis. Aztec god of rain, thunder and fertility. Many sacrifices were made to him. starship.paint 15:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
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Let's give Sub-Saharan Africa some representation. Has 35 interwikis, decent-sized, rated top-importance on WikiProject Cryptozoology. (Although it does come from numerous Bantu mythologies, the fact that it is frequently seen a some sort of sauropod pushes it over to the crpytid side.)
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I just realized we don't have this article on here.
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Only seven interwikis. I guess we can swap it out for skin-walker, but the fact that the Navajo by in large refuse to talk about this creature to outsiders makes it very hard for me to see its article being improved. (Also it's going to have to be listed separately, as it's a type of witch.)
We recently listed
Namco5 and
Sega5 as vital articles, and while those listings are definitely warranted, that places video games as having equal representation in Film, television, video game, and music production as film which are far more widespread and long-lasting than video games. To compensate, I propose the addition of the two American
Major film studios that aren't already listed:
Warner Bros. and
Paramount Pictures.
Putting a note here I just now noticed the earlier nomination for Paramount Pictures to get added. Not going to change this since its got more than Paramount Pictures, though. λNegativeMP1 18:10, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Closed and archived that. starship.paint 05:59, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Not a vital concept, more like a dictionary entry. The
Blue Rider 23:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Per The Blue Rider, plus I think listing
Cheerleading5 adequately covers the concept as applied to real life.
feminist🩸 (
talk) 16:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
It might be somewhat common but is the concept of frowning that encyclopedical to warrant vital status? I don't think so. The
Blue Rider 23:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
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4 interwikis only. Compare with fellow American radio group
NPR5 which has 37 interwikis. starship.paint 14:58, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
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For the most part, Fire Emblem is a relatively obscure franchise that didn't have that much of an impact on the video game industry, and the little impact it has had is not enough for it to be considered one of the 90 most important video games and video game franchises. According to our own page for the series, the entire Fire Emblem franchise has sold less than twenty million units with each game having fairly average reviews except for Awakening. Even its own article demonstrates that the series is basically a no-name outside of Japan, with its influence only really effecting the
Tactical role-playing game genre (which we do not consider vital.) The sales numbers are so low you probably couldn't even make a "representation" case for this being listed. Finally, WP:VG only assesses the franchise as Mid-importance.
IIRC I boldly removed this years ago during the
WP:BRD phase but it got re-added. (Or maybe I just voted/planned for its removal). Less deserving of a listing than the already-removed
Prince of Persia and
Kingdom Hearts. Although the video game section got nicely cut down from 130+ entries some time ago, a handful of questionable entries still remained due to very few voters at the time – Zelda subentries especially could be trimmed slightly more...--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 06:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Not sure about trimming Zelda. It's Nintendo's second biggest main franchise, and has pushed the limits of the video game industry numerous times (including times we don't consider vital). All the entries we list are basically perfect and I'm not sure if any could be removed, and I'd personally oppose any removals. λNegativeMP1 18:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In fact I'd like to have almost no video game subentries in general, but (even if we've already gotten rid of the likes of Super Mario World and Final Fantasy IV) seeing the resistance A Link to the Past's removal got, I'm not sure I'm gonna bother attempting such removal nominations in practice.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 07:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Last comment 15 days ago. Removed 4-0.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 01:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A minor form of taxation. Only a few countries collect it.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Major influence in pop culture, which our article neglects to mention. There are plenty of other things we can remove first.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 21:59, 7 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Discuss
Why is this being proposed?
Iostn (
talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Too niche. The politics and economics section is above quota, yet there are still some fairly basic proposals (see mine below).
Tabu Makiadi (
talk) 19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
One of the most important economic agents. Central banks (such as the
Federal Reserve5), conduct
Monetary policy5, targeting inflation, interest rates, employment, and growth.
Maybe not massively powerful, but it is very well-known internationally, as seen through the high number of pageviews and interwikis.
Iostn (
talk) 07:13, 2 June 2024 (UTC)reply
30 interwikis. A 3,000+ year old Chinese instrument that is the oldest surviving
Zither5. One of the UNESCO Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity. Played by
Confucius3,
Emperor Huizong of Song5, and others. Reduces systemic bias. starship.paint 14:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Also 30 interwikis, also a Chinese
Zither5.
The guzhengis the most popular traditional instrument in China. It has more than 2,500 years of history, and still remains the most-learned traditional instrument in Chinese families.
The guzhengcan be considered the equivalent of the piano in Western music, said Luo Xiaoci, director of Shanghai Chinese Orchestra. Reduces systemic bias. starship.paint 14:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Another instrument to reduce systemic bias. Used prominently in Persian, Turkish, Jewish and Arabic music. According to the article, "The ney has been played continually for 4,500–5,000 years, dating back to ancient Egypt, making it one of the oldest musical instruments still in use." Has 28 interwikis.
Competition climbing is now a full Olympic sport and we have lots of BLPs that are
Category:Competition climbers including other sub-articles for competition climbing.
Bouldering5 is one of the three disciplines of competition climbing, and is already VA5.
Sport climbing5 is another one of the three disciplines of competition climbing, and is also VA5. We should probably also have
Speed climbing, the third discipline of competition climbing, at VA5 as well, but let us try to get competition climbing at VA5 first.
Aszx5000 (
talk) 21:31, 1 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Surprised this hasn't already been made vital. What is supposed to be an article regarding a worldwide view of
education related to
indigenous topics, is in dire need of improvement and recognition; the topic is becoming increasingly relevant as indigenous history becomes more widely taught.
I think this is a rare case where a subject being "niche" is why it should be listed. Many people didn't teach it (if not fought to destroy the mere concept of people learning about those people) for centuries and that's why it's "niche", which isn't a good thing. The subject is objectively important enough for V5. λNegativeMP1 13:13, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Whether or not it is a bad thing being niche, it doesn't invalidate that it has close to zero impact on society. The
Blue Rider 13:32, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The teaching of indigenous history/topics/culture absolutely has an impact on society as it is essential to the preservation of knowledge about [[Indigenous peoples]] worldwide. Retaining the understanding of human culture and history throughout most of the world prior to colonization is one of the largest reasons why we know about human culture in parts of the world that eventually were colonized today. Indigenous topics are quite underrepresented in Vital Articles. B3251(talk) 20:11, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Niche type of education. The
Blue Rider 01:02, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not really sure if I need to explain this nomination? We list
Toy Story5, but not the studio behind it? That produced some of the highest grossing and most influential animated films ever made?
Niche competition that has close to zero impact on society other than helping to choose the best keyboard layout. The
Blue Rider 01:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
As nominator. The
Blue Rider 01:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The management of government revenue, expenditures, and debt is a core area of government. Despite its name, this should squarely go into the State structure and administration section.
We list a lot of coups in the history section (
and several have occurred in recent years). Coups can significantly impact political stability, governance, human rights, and, obviously, democracy.
Wow, super glaring omission. This is V4 stuff. The
Blue Rider 21:25, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Per The Blue Rider, this might be a contender for the most crucial concept we don't list. This could probably be nominated for V4 if it passes here. λNegativeMP1 21:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The disorder is much more vital than the general behavior. Place to health and fitness section with other mental disorders.
Makkool (
talk) 11:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Skateboarding4 has five subsections. That's a bit too much in my opinion. Skateboarding should have only three subsection: vert, freestyle, and street. They're all different, but three distinct styles that are the most common in skateboarding.
Slalom skateboarding isn't that vital, in fact it gets the lowest page views from these five. I don't think this is a controversial removal. It's definitely known and has some competitions but it didn't really define one of the style of skateboarding (it was one of the first competitions that was made for skateboarding, but didn't grow much after that). Street luge is that one fun thing you want to do as a kid and pray your fingers don't get chopped from the wheels of your skateboard. Other than being dangerous, it didn't really influence skateboarding or is vital at all. It did have some time of being a sport for
X Games5, but it was removed after some time.
Support
per nom.
49p (
talk) 07:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)reply
A part of
International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement3. The ICRC is a humanitarian organization with a significant impact to human rights globally and a three-time Nobel prize laureate. The oldest and most honored organization in the Red Cross.
Old Nubian is the oldest written non-
Afroasiatic african language and is the most famous member of the
Nubian languages. Adding another language like this would increase the number of language families represented in the vital article list which in my opinion is something valueable.
The kingdom of
Makuria (in which Old Nubian was spoken) is also already a level 5 article, so I don't see any historical reason why this isn't significant enough.
ZKevinTheCat (
talk) 02:38, 9 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support
Nom
Per nom. Very interesting topic, we could list a few more under-represented historical languages.
Makkool (
talk) 06:49, 9 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Blending of elements from planned and market economies. In use today in many parts of the world, like the Nordic model or China's socialist market economy.
Yes, this is a pretty widespread video game subject, but its also fringe enough to fall on the lines of trivia. Is the idea of an achievement necessary to an encyclopedic definition of video games?
@
NegativeMP1 and
Makkool: It seems like the virtual camera system article is specific to third-person games, thus making it so that there is no overlap.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 14:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure why I thought the virtual camera system included a first person view... either way, I'm not sure if this is an absolutely necessary topic, but I guess I'm neutral on it now. λNegativeMP1 16:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
This song was added without consensus by @
TDKR Chicago 101:, before obviously being reverted, so I'm giving it a fair discussion. In my opinion, while this is a semi-important work, I'm not sure if it's really "vital" worthy, and there's songs/albums I'd list before it (I still think one
Taylor Swift4 album and
Never Gonna Give You Up could be added), and I'm only creating this discussion as to give the proposal a fair chance.
Ah, okay. I was going by a very cursory search. Didn't try to mislead anyone else, just tried to convince myself for my intuition to not include this. #36 is still a low enough to keep opposing.
Makkool (
talk) 18:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Meh, I didn't make a discussion for that one because I knew for a fact it didn't stand a chance in a real discussion. At least Seven Nation Army had some merit. λNegativeMP1 15:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)reply
About your comments about other albums and songs to add, I would support adding
Never Gonna Give You Up. I would say it's pretty well known for pop music. As for Taylor Swift, I would agree but the problem is that which one is going to be hard. They're all well known, but they're pretty similar. I think it would boiled down to
1989 or
Red.
49p (
talk) 02:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree with everything you said, though my rationale for NGGYU isn't entirely because it's recognizable, but because it'd be an example of an Internet meme. As for a Taylor Swift album, I agree it's between 1989 and Red. I strongly believe that a V4 singer should have at least one work listed at V5.
I tried to get 1989 added a few weeks ago, though it didn't get any responses and I withdrew it. Maybe Red would be better due to it technically being higher on the best albums list from Rolling Stone. λNegativeMP1 02:20, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Official written standards of the
Norwegian language. Norwegian is only V5, spoken by 4-5 million people, and the general article explains both of them in detail.
Unlike other
Austronesian languages, this one is entirely concentrated in the Island of Nauru. By far the least spoken language from this group we list. It has less than 10,000 speakers.
Sparse article. I could wager this type of education is on the decline as countries increasingly have a larger pool of people who learn English through media, school, etc.
It’s proven a little hard to reduce the television section, even though it’s been voiced that we have too many shows, so this is my only proposal here. We already have
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation5, which spawned the franchise.
Possibly included because the article states its “the fourth most widely circulated magazine in the United States”. Nowadays it’s the fifth, and magazines 2-4 don’t even have articles, let alone are VAs.
There are meaningful differences between them, but two slots are excessive. We list only six individual labor unions in the politics and economics section, though I would agree we should have more.
Two may seem excessive, but afaict they were never a single organization and the umbrella article as such is sparse. In any case, it should be moved with the other labour unions.
Not entirely related to the nomination, but why do we use "X should be removed because it only has Y interwikis!" as a removal rationale? I see the reason why we use it, since it theoretically suggests a lack of worldwide influence, but it also seems to have some overlap with the fact that, if I recall correctly, redlinks as vital articles is technically allowed. That rules existence seems to directly contradict these types of rationales by implying a subject can be important regardless of whether or not a Wikipedia has it. λNegativeMP1 02:06, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I think that rule should probably be removed.
SailorGardevoir (
talk) 04:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't think
Gangsta's Paradise would be a good swap. The song is just a one-hit wonder (we don't even list
Coolio as vital). The song being best-selling does add some merit to be vital. I don't think it'll be good enough for a swap, but could be added (weak support from me).
If we want to swap, maybe we could do
Fight the Power (Public Enemy song). It's not as big as Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang or Fuck the Police, but it has a bunch of accolades (#2 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time is a big one).
49p (
talk) 15:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply
When I nominated 1989 for V5 status (which I withdrew after it got no responses after a week), I stated that if a
Taylor Swift4 album were to be added, it had to be either that one or Red. I think that nearly all subjects at Vital 4 should have at least one subtopic at Vital 5, and that includes Taylor. So I'll give nominating this one a shot.
Backstory aside, this album received equal or higher critical acclaim than 1989, and appeared on several "best albums of the 2010's" lists with higher average placements than 1989 (
its also been considered one of the most important albums of the decade). Out of her original six albums, Red has the highest rating on Metacritic, and her
2021 re-recording of the album is her highest rated work overall (91/100). It's her highest placed album on
Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time at 99 (for context, 1989 was 383). It's also her first album with songs that reached #1 on charts and is believed to have inspired a generation of indie artists. I'd say this is right on the mark for a V5 album, maybe even more than 1989?
Weak support for now; we don't list enough entries under "pop" relative to "rock" imo
Iostn (
talk) 12:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Too recent. We lack many albums from female artist that have "greatest album of all time" status, like Hounds of Love.
Makkool (
talk) 13:18, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
For the record, I'd support the addition of those as well if one were to make the proposals. λNegativeMP1 17:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I get we already list
Metal Gear5 and
Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game)5, but Sons of Liberty is a league of its own for completely different reasons than those two. It completely changed the ways video games told stories, and it did so through political themes that went on to make it possibly the most analyzed video game in history (and one look at the themes and analysis section will prove that). These themes especially gained prominence in the 2010s and 2020s, since this game basically predicted them and is still considered a politically relevant game (so, to a certain extent, RECENTISM doesn't apply here). It is believed to have heavily influenced the vital
BioShock5 and
Portal (video game)5, and is considered a reason the
PlayStation 25 became the best selling video game console of all time. It was even included as part of the final exhibition for
The Art of Video Games, so while the article doesn't specifically state it is, this game could be considered a representation on this list for
video games as an art form. I'd say this is a more influential video game than the aforementioned BioShock and Portal, and is absolutely worthy of V5.
Could you elaborate further on your issues with this proposal and the one above? λNegativeMP1 14:57, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't doubt your justifications for how this is an important video game, but still I would be wary of adding a sequel video game. Maybe as a swap with some other video game I could reconsider. Also, I would choose some other example of an art video game that's not a franchise title.
Makkool (
talk) 15:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not really sure if there's any option that'd be a better one than this, though if an alternate one was proposed I'd probably support it. λNegativeMP1 17:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Very influential, but the bar for it to be listed seperately is very high when we already list Metal Gear and MGS and I don't think it quite meets that.
Iostn (
talk) 12:04, 16 June 2024 (UTC)reply
This doesn't even really refer to an ideology as much as it is simply a phrase used to refer to the practices of large companies, or a state where large companies exist under capitalism - which is just capitalism, most of the time.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Look, I understand that this is a decently popular sub-genre of Role-playing video games, but this is the kind of video game sub-genre that feels too specific and unimportant for vitality. It is not a core video game genre.
The core concepts (permadeath and procedural generation) have spread beyond RPGs, the article covers also the wider "roguelite" concept.--
LaukkuTheGreit (
Talk•
Contribs) 08:08, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Per above. If we think that we need to cut one more video game article, I would choose
Rogue (video game)5 over this.
Makkool (
talk) 18:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I would rather cut Rogue than the genre it created. Also, per LaukkuTheGreit.
QuicoleJR (
talk) 14:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The original novels that
Game of Thrones5 TV show is based on. We don't list any fantasy books for 21st century fiction and this is an obvious candidate to cover the absence.
Seems like a very obvious pick for vitality. λNegativeMP1 20:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Absolutely, surprised it wasn't already on the list.
Kevinishere15 (
talk) 21:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose
Neutral
Discuss
Actually, I think we should consider this as 20th century literature, as the first book was published in 1996.
Harry Potter4 are the only fantasy books from the same period that we list.
Makkool (
talk) 21:12, 17 June 2024 (UTC)reply