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I remember past discussions here and/or on individual article talk pages about this. I'm raising it again here. Is there a project-level stance on this? If not, I think that there should be.
Please understand that the Filipino language is very much a minority language in the world, that this is the English language Wikipedia, that most Wikipedia users do not read Filipino, [..] (I cut that list short because the items I have mentioned are pretty obvious and have probably been mentioned on past discussions on this issue, along with numerous (and important, from the viewpoint of a reader not literate in the Filipino language -- i.e., the great majorigity of Wikipedia readerrs) similar unmentioned items).
Besides the
Libingan ng mga Bayani article (see some searches for alternative English language titles at
[1][2][3][4][5]), there's the
Bantayog ng mga Bayani article (one English language alternative is Monument of Heroes -- see
[6], etc.) and, probably, some others.
Please, project members, discuss this and come to a project-level stance on this.
Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)reply
We can probably do an RFC here (could be this very thread). My position is that we should generally use the most common name as used by English-language reliable sources, with a bias on locally-produced sources. To give a few examples:
Note that these names are proper names and so they don't have to be translated when used as article titles just because some sources have done so per
WP:COMMONNAME. We use the most common name predominantly used by English-language sources and English-language sources in the Philippines predominantly use the Filipino-based proper names.
Furthermore, this is not an issue unique to the Philippines. Ireland, a predominantly English-using country (to the detriment of its native Irish language), have article titles in Irish even though some reliable sources have referred to the corresponding entities with their common English translations:
Taoiseach (instead of "Prime Minister of Ireland"),
Dáil Éireann (instead of "Assembly of Ireland", ), and
Oireachtas (instead of "Parliament of Ireland"). If using "non-English" titles is good enough for Ireland, then it should be good enough for the Philippines. —
seav (
talk) 04:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Our policy is
WP:USEENGLISH, or use thw name English language sources use. This means many non-English names will be used. We call the city by the in California "
San Francisco" , not "Saint Francis".
I suppose English names may be used, and my personal standard is if it's used to the level that it is not astonishing for most people as the non-English name, like "
Day of Valor" vs. "Araw ng Kagitingan" (even calendars now use the English name, for example). Libingan and Bantayog are almost never refered to its English names, and Pamantasan just barely so.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 05:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If English-language sources routinely uses Filipino names then we should used them with bias to Philippine-based sources as per
MOS:TIES. To list some examples
Commission on the Filipino Language this is a bit tricky since the website mostly publishes Filipino/Tagalog media due to its mandate but even then the most English language cites given in the past failed move request includes both the local name and the official and more obscure English name CFL (quote "Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino (KWF) or Commission on the Filipino Language")— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hariboneagle927 (
talk •
contribs)
English is an official language in the Philippines as well, and generally speaking, many sources will publish in Tagalog (or Cebuano, etc) and in English. I think we need to give more weight to what English names they are using in these circumstances. Not everything should be a English equivalent, but things don't translate perfectly (try translating the word kilig for example), and what we are concerned with is the most commonly used name by English speakers, not American or British English speakers. If PH papers are using the PH names when reporting in English, then that is probably the right name, at least most of the time. Fwhetor example, I would say Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas is the right name, and Central Bank of the Philippines is the right redirect.
Dennis Brown -
2¢ 00:09, 5 May 2024 o effectiveky searable t(UTC)
I'm traveling for te next few days or weeks and not able to do much research, but it occurs to me to wonder whether the English language sources you speak of might be predominately sources appearing in the Philippines and with readership expectations mostly made up of Filipinos literate in both English and Tagalog. If that is the case, I would say that sampling of sources is heavily weighted and not very representative of or relevant to the bulk of WP article readership.
Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Much of the English language
WP:RS about Philippine topics are from the Philippines. As per
MOS:TIES, we'd give Philippine sources importance over other sources; some foreign sources are even written by Filipinos themselves, globalized by that foreign
WP:RS editors to make it relatable to their audience: for example,
Ben Evardone was once described as MP from
Eastern Samar by the BBC.
The most notorious about this was when
Libingan ng mga Bayani was moved because an Indian
WP:RS used the English translation, and that was the basis of the move. Seriously, much love to Indian
WP:RS, but that does not make sense.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 08:28, 6 May 2024 (UTC)reply
When we speak of
WP:COMMONNAME, we aren't addressing Wikipedia's readership, we are talking about sources. And yes, most English sources about the Philippines are likely to come from the Philippines. Except for the recent activity in the West Philippines Sea, the rest of the world often doesn't pay much attention to what happens here anyway. Even if sources were evenly split, and you had to pick one name, you would lean towards what local English sources use because again, English is one of two official languages here. If the bulk of the sources use a western English name, then sure, you use that name.
Dennis Brown -
2¢ 11:34, 6 May 2024 (UTC)reply
FWIW, I'd be okay with an English language name if it's just as widespread as the non-English name, or at least it wouldn't leave Filipinos astonished, as per my suggestion on
Day of Valor vs. Araw ng Kagitingan.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 11:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)reply
That sounds right, it will be a spectrum and there will be a few where there probably isn't a correct answer.
CMD (
talk) 11:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
If I may please add the
Bantayog ng mga Bayani as being one of those proper names that are never translated into English because it's a proper name. And even the formal name of the organization is "Bantayog ng mga Bayani Foundation, Inc." -
Chieharumachi (
talk) 14:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It being a proper name should be of little significance, title-wise (
WP:OFFICIAL). As stated earlier, "Araw ng Kagitingan" is a proper name, is stated as the name of the holiday in a law otherwise written in English, yet the article is at
Day of Valor. If an English name is widely used, we should use it, even if the non-English name can claim to be more numerous in
WP:RS, again subject to some exceptions.
With that being said, Bantayog ng mga Bayani is almost never translated into English, so should probably stay there.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 18:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not really focused on this but I've been looking at it as I get time. I'm surprised by the sparsity of items at the
Heroes' Cemetery disambig page and at the lack of uniformity in naming of target articles there. Perhaps the lack of uniformity should be raised at
WT:EN.
Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see
[13][14][15]).
Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Ah, reversion to original native names prior to when White guys named these places. Probably like
Uluru vs. Ayers rock, or even
Kolkata vs. Calcutta.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 15:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion seems to have died down a bit, but it seems that there is a rough consensus that we should still follow
WP:USEENGLISH and apply it on an individual basis per article. Does this assessment sound about right? —
seav (
talk) 12:43, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Update on missing OPM artist articles
Hello here, especially those on the PH Music task force
I would like to provide some update on the missing OPM artist drive. Maybe it's good someone already have an article about Odette Quesada, but I think we still need to look into the other missing OPM acts such as
Lloyd Umali (which had a concert upcoming). Looks like the missing article on Filipino musicians and bands we maintain in the task force page are getting longer but there is not much effort in creating articles and recreating deleted ones.
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 04:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Which is why we have to recruit more people to the task force. There's like only four members so far, but I know there's a lot more who do Filipino music edits.
As for me, May has always been a busy time for me, which is why I don't have a lot of edits this month, music-related or otherwise. But I definitely plan to help out as soon as I can, especially on the songs I requested myself.
D-Flo27 (
talk) 10:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
D-Flo27 Just an update, I just added another missing band into the to-do list:
Judas, 70s-early 80s Pinoy rock band known for the songs "Basted" and "Dukha".
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 09:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Ongoing vandalism
2024 in Philippine sports is being vandalized by an IP who keeps adding unsourced content despite multiple warnings. Have warned them off personally and filed a PP request but need extra eyes to monitor the page.
Borgenland (
talk) 15:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Senate of the Philippines
There is an ongoing leadership change (LOL), and amidst the changes people still insisting to use full names as pipelinks on Wikipedia articles such as
Senate of the Philippines and
19th Congress of the Philippines. Please help in reverting to the actual Wikipedia article titles as links instead of these pipelinks. Thanks!
Howard the Duck (
talk) 08:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Also questioning why Chiz Escudero is listed as incumbent president despite the absence of a full Senate vote.
Borgenland (
talk) 08:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
OK so the vote just occurred.
Borgenland (
talk) 09:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I still quite relative new to Wikipedia, and I found out that someone copy-paste the whole history section and geography section from San Nicolas, Pangasinan's Official Website. I tried my best to remove bits that I KNOW that is unnecessary and I need help to remove the parts I'm doubting to remove. I also summarize it and added many maintenance tags. I just want to let somebody who knows what to do with this. Warm Regards,
Miminity (
talk) 05:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for pointing this out. Will fix.
Borgenland (
talk) 05:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict) Thanks
Miminity. Copyvios should be removed, I have cleared the remaining parts given you have rewritten most of the History section. The IP also made minor changes I didn't revert, as they don't seem to be copyvios. I have tagged the page for revdel. If you feel some of the removed information was relevant, feel free to add it in your own words citing the official website.
CMD (
talk) 05:43, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, Thanks. I don't know how to differentiate. I will keep this in mind. Warm Regards,
Miminity (
talk) 05:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Borgenland Please restore the copyrevdel tag with an updated end diff number when you think it is clear. Best,
CMD (
talk) 06:42, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I think its clear on my part. Need help on the number though.
Borgenland (
talk) 06:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Number looks fine. Best,
CMD (
talk) 06:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Imported music common between PH, MY, ID, SG, HK and TW
Maybe I just rekindled a discussion about Western songs and artists largely known in PH, but I just found out some artists and songs mostly known in PH are also known to some degree in Indonesia, Malaysia or even Hong Kong and Taiwan/ROC. It seems there is this similarity in between PH, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and also Hong Kong and Taiwan in regard to popular imported music that might be discussed in some article (in a similar vein to "
big in Japan"). Just noticed some Filipino artists like Regine, Christian Bautista and Jose Mari Chan have some following in Indonesia (through their English songs) from a cursory glance of Indonesia imported music playlists on Spotify. Other similarities between PH, Indonesia, (and to some degree HK) is with things like adult contemporary music (sentimental songs, including from artists not well known in the West, popular on radio), imported 90s-00s boy bands (Westlife and A1 in particular), and dance music (Eurodance popular also on radio, "Dying Inside" also a 90s best-selling single across maritime SEA). Maybe this is discussed already in articles of the artists and songs largely known in either PH or ID, but is this something worth an article to discuss about or something best discussed at least briefly in each country's/territory's "Music of X" article?
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 10:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
There is
Music of Southeast Asia, although it's less an article than a disambiguation page. This does seem to be a topic that is covered in sources,
[16],
[17], so observations could be placed somewhere.
CMD (
talk) 15:16, 23 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Chipmunkdavis: I just read one of the sources, but I didn't find anything about Western/imported music in particular, especially things like ballads or dance music predominant on radio. In particular are Western AC or dance hits that feature heavily on PH/ID/MY/SG/HK/TW radio programming and had popularity in those countries. Well, most of such songs did chart in the West and/or Japan, but there are lots of those that are largely known within SEA/HK/TW due to record sales, radio airplay and cover releases from local artists. With the exclusion of the majority which charted in multiple Western countries plus Japan, such examples are:
Rainbow's "Temple of the King" (single released in SEA only, as well as New Zealand and South America)
Scorpions' power ballads "Holiday", "Always Somewhere" and "When the Smoke is Going Down" (album tracks from Lovedrive and Blackout, all never released as singles; recurrents on PH radio)
Cliff Richard's "Ocean Deep" (recurrent in PH/HK radio; have cover versions from PH artists, also has Cantonese cover versions in HK)
Russell Hitchcock's "Someone Who Believes" and "I Can't Believe My Eyes" (singles as solo artist outside
Air Supply; recurrent on PH radio)
Timmy Thomas's "Dying Inside (to Hold You)" (PH/ID/MY/SG best-selling single in the 90s by certified or claimed sales; has PH cover version by
Darren Espanto)
Chris Norman's "Some Hearts are Diamonds" (PH AC radio recurrents; actually also had charted in Germany)
"I Wanna Be Close to You" (PH dance hit and radio recurrent)
Fra Lippo Lippi (had best-selling albums in PH in the 90s, including PH-only releases)
David Pomeranz (80s-90s hit: 1998 greatest hits album 13th best-selling album in PH by PARI certifications; some songs such as "Got to Believe" and "Born for You" used on teleserye soundtracks and received cover versions)
"Passenger Seat" by Stephen Speaks (2001 PH best-selling single)
Maybe I was rambling, but after all, what has been causing me to bring this up again and again is with Western songs frequently heard on PH radio not being heard much in stations in Canada (where I moved). Well, lots of 70s, 80s and 90s Western AC songs I hear on PH AC radio did appear on the
Canadian charts, but they are surprisingly less played on Canadian AC radio nowadays due to older slow songs being less played and more uptempo AC hits being introduced, and requirement of
Canadian content; some 70s artists/song I still hear on Canadian AC radio are the like of
Elton John,
ABBA and some of Anne Murray, plus
Fleetwood Mac,
Peter Frampton,
Roberta Flack,
Eagles,
Dan Hill, etc. For 80s, still lots (Lionel Richie, Richard Marx, Christopher Cross, Journey, Chicago, the Police, Heart, Bryan Adams, Corey Hart, Foreigner, Bon Jovi, etc.) but never heard anything such as those aforementioned teen stars (Tiffany's cover version of
Tommy James & the Shondells "
I Think We're Alone Now" is still heard there but not her ballads, there is nothing of Debbie Gibson, and for Taylor Dayne, only her upbeat pop hits such as "
Tell It to My Heart" are played, but usually on classic hits stations) or of those aforementioned R&B acts, and the only Air Supply songs I heard also in Canada are "
Lost in Love" and "
All Out of Love" (both appearing on the 1980 top 40 there). Also another reason for these discussions is the lack of good charts indicative or their overall popularity in PH; all we have is either reported album or singles sales, as well as radio airplay. The other reason is with the discoveries from searches for popular Western music playlists from Indonesia and HK on Spotify, which I highlighted previously.
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 02:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
From discussions with those in the international music industry (
OR), the Philippines is unique in its regular playing of old music on the radio. I don't know if that tracks across other areas of Southeast/East Asia as you mention, maybe it does to lesser extents, but that is probably why you are not hearing the same songs in Canada and the US. Sadly I can't find any sources on this at a glance, there is plenty of writing about fusions of regionally produced music within the region, but not of western music within the region.
CMD (
talk) 03:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Chipmunkdavis You can keep on finding any good academic or industry sources regarding Western music on Southeast Asia, but the problem then is where to include the info. The thing for me is maritime SEA (particularly Philippines and Indonesia), and HK to some degree, has such fondness for old, sentimental ballads that predominated local music in the 70; in particular AC radio in those regions are dominated by old music (70s to 90s) and many soft Western hits are still played in what strikes to be something reminiscent of
Galápagos syndrome in contrast with North American AC radio that have largely phased them out of airplay due to need to improve ratings and advertiser appeal. Without having to bring up lots of artists and songs as I did previously, as an example, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston are kind of venerated as divas in maritime SEA (PH in particular), with their albums selling reaching gold and diamond, and many of their songs becoming permanent fixtures in local AC radio (and their songs usually played together, especially during lunchtime). The continuing airplay of Western teen pop ballads in SEA such as of those songs by Tiffany, Debbie Gibson and Taylor Dayne makes wonders for me, but may also be driven by the popularity on radio of similar, contemporaneous local acts (like
Sharon Cuneta,
Rachel Alejandro,
Sheryl Cruz and
Smokey Mountain, for PH).
Maybe why Philippine AC radio continues playing older Western AC tunes is because they play softer 70s-90s OPM from the same eras and stations are trying to build the mood by adding similar and contemporaneous imported content. Ihat may hold true to some degree for ID, MY, SG, and HK, with their local pop scenes (i.e.
Indopop,
pop Melayu,
Cantopop) during the same decades also being predominantly soft and ballad-driven, and such songs also the mainstay in local AC radio.
Like with Japan, SEA has also been a lucrative market for Western acts that had modest to no success in the Western market, despite challenges from rampant music piracy and religious/social conservatism.
At last, Southeast Asian radio, with the lack of local charts until recently, have to depend on locally-certified best-selling albums and singles, or foreign charts such as Billboard Hot 100 or UK singles charts for content to fill in their playlists.
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 05:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Just to provide an idea of the prevalence of older non-Filipino hits on PH AC radio, here's a sample of Western AC songs played between around 1:30-2:30PM (Philippine Standard Time) on two Tagalog-language AC stations
DWSM and
DWYS and around 3:00PM-3:30 PM (Philippine Standard Time) on English-language AC station
DWRK. This excludes cover versions by Filipino artists. DWSM plays also some 50s-early 70s oldies in its regular weekday/Saturday afternoon programming, which I excluded in favor of recurrents from the 70s to present.
@
Chipmunkdavis You can keep trying for sources regarding the choice of imported/Western popular music in Southeast Asian radio, especially AC. To me, PH AC radio (especially soft AC and contemporary MOR/masa, as well as Filipino-oriented radio overseas, either on-air or online) radio is rather a different animal from North American AC radio as they continue to play Western AC music now associated with older demographics in NA AC such as classic 70s MOR from the likes of Carpenters, Lobo or Manilow, many soft 80s AC such those of Fogelberg, Bishop, Osborne, or even teen stars like Tiffany, and some charting power ballads, not to mention the intrusion of some Western artists with little to no success in the West or UK/Australian hits that did not appear on North American top 40 charts (like that of "Especially for You", "Through the Barricades", and "Together in Electric Dreams", in part due to them being played on radio in nearby Malaysia and Singapore when they charted at their home countries). Well that may sound true even to AC radio across maritime SEA (especially those of Malaysia and Singapore, which are former British colonies) or even HK from the scant evidence I can find from a glance of user playlists from Spotify.
My thoughts as well is whether to include the information about "contemporary MOR"/masa format into the
adult contemporary music article. All I got with those info is adding them to the
radio in the Philippines article during a major expansion.
Somewhat tangentially related and may be contributory to this discussion is what I saw to be a mass addition of artists into a paragraph in
Middle of the road (music) by an IP geolocating to
Chichester University in the UK (presumably used by a Hongkonger or a Chinese). I have reverted them as adding little understanding to the topic, not to mention the additions are reflective of Western artists that are typically played in PH/ maritime SEA/HK MOR/soft AC radio, therefore putting an undue PH/Southeast Asian/HK slant into the list paragraph.
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 08:24, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It doesn't seem completely true that many 80s/90s songs that charted in either the US or Canada and I heard on PH AC radio is rarely or no longer played in North American AC radio. I just looked on user playlists on Spotify compiling all the songs played on two big US soft AC stations (
KISQ of San Francisco and
WLTW of New York), and it doesn't seem completely true; I still found some of the likes of Gibson ("Lost in Your Eyes" came up on both stations all-time playlist), other hit Air Supply songs (like "Making Love Out of Nothing at All"), so are Atlantic Starr's "Always" and Bad English's "When I See You Smile". Maybe I haven't heard much of this in Canada because the local AC station I listened to haven't played them yet or I just haven't heard them.
Maybe we can close this thread, but I would appreciate any research about this thing about popular Western music and acts across Southeast Asia (as well as HK). Back with the sources provided that mostly discuss the local music, there is also much Western influence as well (well, much of modern Filipino pop such as Manila sound and its successor OPM have much Western influence, not to mention some OPM are completely in English).
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 06:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Cleanup of articles with unsubstantiated claims of being no. 1 in PH, and creation of best-selling singles in PH list article
While no good research has come up yet about what seems to be common imported/Western music between the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore (and also Hong Kong or even Taiwan), so is the continued play of many 70s, 80s and 90s Western AC music in the local radio in those countries, I will like to bring up a plan on cleaning up articles about individual songs which have uncited claims of being no. 1 or just radio hits in the Philippines. Top example is with the mention about "Dying Inside" being a no. 1 hit in the Philippines on the Timmy Thomas article (there's no good Philippine music chart yet during the 90s when it was hit, not to mention it was a best-selling single as well in Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore during the same era by claimed sales; should replace that claim with a more verifiable claim such as claimed/certified single sales from PARI or another contemporary music industry source). Also another thing is with songs being listed as a recurrent in PH radio without any source (take for example "Some Hearts are Diamonds").
Anyone interested? Input, especially from people in the music task force welcome. Also, I just created a draft for a section about contemporary MOR radio format for addition into the
adult contemporary music article (just need sources, but I got the wording ready).
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 07:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Someone might want to look into creating an article discussing this common self-deprecatory expression, which might also has to do with
cultural cringe. There are article for similar concepts such as
big in Japan and
world famous in New Zealand but not this one.
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 04:21, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
A redirect could also be made into only in da Pilipins.
Borgenland (
talk) 04:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I created
a draft article a minute or so ago, other contributors are more than welcome to make relevant edits and make it article-worthy.-
Ian Lopez @ 14:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The present article for
Philippine debut is rather in bad shape. There is just only one source, and while there are lots of details, it doesn't have info on origins to Spanish-era or precolonial traditions (as compared to similar traditions such as the Latin American
quinceañera, where it has much similarity).
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 07:22, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Bumping this. Anyone interested in expanding (including adding images) and adding sources?
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 08:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Bumping again. Anyone interested in taking on this article?
TagaSanPedroAko (
talk) 06:58, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Copyvio in La Salle Araneta
The Historical background section of
De La Salle Araneta University is unsourced and appears to have been copypasted (possible from its website). Need help fixing or removing section altogether.
Borgenland (
talk) 16:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I've found that the top part of that section consists of a close paraphrase from the DLSAU website. I've tagged the section with {{copyvio}} in accordance with
Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#Addressing. Please see instructions on that article for the procedure for rewriting the infringing text. Chlod (
say hi!) 17:08, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Will try to salvage what I could. For now I believe what is visible should be split off into a separate section.
Borgenland (
talk) 17:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
On second thought I will just split what remains off and wait for a final decision on the history. Will make a hidden draft though.
Borgenland (
talk) 17:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I don't think there is anything PH-specific for typhoons. These articles are much better maintained under the
WP:WPTC WikiProject so just follow their lead. —
seav (
talk) 17:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Here's my advice on Pacific typhoon season articles for any newcomer, from my four seasons of editing in the space:
Storm data is always from the
Japan Meteorological Agency (cyclone category, wind speeds, gusts, pressure, location) or the
Joint Typhoon Warning Center (for 1-minute wind speeds, gusts, and pressure). The only data used from PAGASA are landfalls.
Unlike in hurricane season articles, "Category N" and the
Saffir–Simpson scale is not used here. Each "upgrade" up the SSHWS should be removed, unless it is contextually significant (i.e. when a storm becomes a "Category 4-equivalent super typhoon" according to the JTWC), and in that case an "-equivalent" suffix is added.
International name is always used over local name.
24-hour time is always used. When an event doesn't have ties to a country, UTC is used (13:00 UTC).
Splits from the season article are decided when there are significant impacts. Standard preparation procedures are not considered. This usually means a prospective storm article should have a detailed and comprehensive "Impacts" section.
Storm article titles do not include the word "Severe" (from "Severe tropical storm") or "Super" (from "Supertyphoon").
JMA, JTWC, and PAGASA citation links are unreliable, and very quickly get replaced or
die out. For this reason, we've developed a culture around archiving everything. The
season talk page has links to where all advisories are posted, and includes a link to archive collections near the top.
This also means we use a lot of citations. Without them, information would quickly become unverifiable. See
2019 Pacific typhoon season for an example.
Minimize your edit count, and use edit summaries. This helps decrease history size and contextualize the history, which can reach up to 5,000 revisions by the end of the season.
Standard preparation procedures — like class suspensions, storm signals, government agency "red alerts", etc. — are usually omitted from the season article, unless significant. Instead, there's more focus on impacts and aftermath.
WP:WPTC/S is the style guide,
WP:WPTC/Tracks is the track generator,
talk page is the place to go if you have clarifications about storm data or info.
Lower-quality writing in this space is common, usually because tropical cyclones are a subject of interests to many younger editors. If you do see something written badly, please
try to fix it. On the other side of the coin, many long-time editors in the space have lesser tolerance for low quality, because of the aforementioned.
Confused in one aspect though. Does
MOS:PH apply there? I've been going back and forth reverting the word city in the PAGASA bulletins.
Borgenland (
talk) 11:37, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Use the actual article title save for parathentical dabs.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 12:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Vice governor needs updating with Governor
Erico Aristotle Aumentado's suspension, especially since I can't calculate which board member can be acting vice gov.
Borgenland (
talk) 14:17, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
The list of officials of the following towns also need to be updated in light of the suspensions as well as the fact that some of them have also not been updated since at least 2019:
The acting VG is the topnotchee BM who had the higher percentage of votes vs total votes.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 14:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
That's regardless of the total numbers of the electoral district, am I right?
Borgenland (
talk) 15:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, that's right. So the "#1 board member" is the topnotcher with the highest percentage.
Of course in at-large districts this is much simpler.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 05:59, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
It seems to me that there should exist a post-election governmental source giving names of officials holding posts, a news report of a swearing-in, or some other citeable source more reliable than interpretation of election results by WP editors.
Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 21:22, 28 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Unfortunately local governments can be quite incompetent record keepers who sometimes put nothing more than a Facebook post to remind everyone who’s in charge.
Borgenland (
talk) 02:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
COMELEC used to have winners of the 2019 elections down to the councilor level on their website. For the 2022 elections, this is not yet done save for Senate and party list elections. In the old days, they have published books about how the elections was organized, including the winners.
I guess it'll be great if the local Wikimedia chapters writes a letter to COMELEC to publish these on their website.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 06:03, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This is a more internal thing for COMELEC to fix but they really should set guidelines on what names candidates put on the ballot. I sometimes doubt myself whenever I have to put for example a person named Kuya Jhunjhong dela Cruz as mayor.
Borgenland (
talk) 06:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Names as they appear on the ballot is decided by the candidate him/herself. I don't think you'd name an article like
Cynthia Hanepbuhay Villar, right? It's best to use names actually used by
WP:RS.
Howard the Duck (
talk) 06:35, 29 May 2024 (UTC)reply