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1. Your statement will only be accepted if you soon thereafter add your acceptance of the groundrules posted above.
2. Your statement should address 1) the construction of the dispute in your opinion, 2) the nature of the dispute as it has progressed, 3) the outcome you originally seek coming into this mediation [your opinion], 4) Wikipedia Policies that come into play in your opinion, 5) proposed ways to resolve the issue or points of mutual agreement that could begin an objective process to a resolution
3. Follow groundrules in not attacking other participants and acting in Good Faith
4. Seperate your statement by a ===
Cheers! Reubzz ( talk) 20:41, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The fact that there has been an ongoing dispute for over three years, with a changing cast of characters, proves one thing: this is not a "personal behavior" problem involving a breakdown of communication or trolling. I point this out because I know this is how most disputes at WP are viewed by the community, and most of our conflict resolution mechanisms are meant to resolve these kinds of disputes. I obviously have no clue about how to resolve this dispute, I tried at least twice (in 2006 and in 2008) to mediate conflicts between especially active editors and achieved nothing. All I know is, the root of this problem is not really a conflict between specific individual editors, that is just the form it takes. At stake here is not resolving a specific dispute among names parties; at stake is creating a relatively stable article that is organized in a way to sustain fruitful edits and not - as has always happened in the past - fall back into dissention. This is in my view the desired outcome: a stable article future editors can contribute to without getting mired in the same debates that have overwhelmed it almost since its inception
I think there are two key issues here. The first is the charge of racist science. No one is questioning that one component accounting for human intelligence is genetic - genes account of an amount of variance among members of the same group (which could conceivably be humanity as a whole). There is some debate over what the percentage is, but this debate is not controvercial because race is not an issue. The problem is when someone says that half of the diference in IQ between Blacks and Whites is genetic is tantamount to saying, Blacks are inherently inferior. There is a documented history of beliefs like this being used in social policy and in politics to discriminate against Blacks, for example, denying them the right to vote at certain times in certain places. The reason that many scientists now view this as "racist science" is because it is now clear that the methods used to establish the claim that Blacks are inherently inferior were deeply flawed if not fraudulent. This is a simple matter of history and the article on race and intelligence needs to include it - so far I do not think I have said anything controversial.
The controvery begins when we discuss whether Jensen Rushton, and Murray and Hernstein be included in the section on racist science. I repeat that this charge rests on two thigs, first on the fact that the claim that Blacks are inherently inferior to Whites is racist, and second, that the claim is based on bad science. There is no doubt that many scholars have accused them of racist science, but other scientists have defended them. The charge of "bad science" rests heavily on the fact that Rushton and others have at times misused the concept (which comes from a different academic discipline) of "heritability." I think this is a controversy the article needs to cover in a dispassionate way: some accuse them of racist science, some have defended them. I think editors have found it difficult to come to a consensus way to cover this debate in the article.
The second is the question of majority, minority, or fringe view and here I think people editing the page need real guidance as to Wikipedia's criteria for "fringe." The problem is that these words (majority versus fringe) are essentially relative. We are obviously not talking about "popular views" - most Americans or Canadians may believe Blacks are inherently inferior, or may believe Blacks and Whites are inherently equal, and these facts might be relevant to a section on "popular beliefs." When we talk about fringe science versus majority or mainstream science, obviously we mean among a group of scientists. And one place where we need help is in determining which group. We could say, "among the group of scientists research race, heredity and IQ." The problem is, this really is the group that is accused of being fringe. We do not want to end up with a tautology "All researchers who agree with Rushton agree with Rushton" - that does not help us sort out this mainstream versus ringe problem. Of course all researchers who believe Blacks are inherently inferior to Whites, at least to some degree, are going to agreee with one another. This is what is at issue with the Wall Street Journal advertisement. This was a statement of 50+ scientists posted as a paid editorial in The Wall Street Journal attesting that Blacks are - to some degree - intellectually inferior to Whites. One major dispute is: do the signatories of this ad prove that this view is "majority" or "mainstream?" Or, is this the very question: are the signatories to this ad fringe or mainstream? Some editors seem to think that the signatories to the ad represent all or most experts on the question, therefore the ad necessarily represents the mainstream view. Other editors believe this group is fringe (which is one reason why they had to express their views through a paid ad, or by citing one another, or by publishing in journals supported by the Pioneer fund or edited by one another).
Those who consider the ad to be a fringe view, and the signatories to be espousers of a fringe view, have to demonstrate that (1) there are other scientists who have expertise on the topic and (2) they hold other views. Many of the signatories ar psychologists, and some people have forwarded the APA statement. This is an official statement of the American Psychological Association, but those who consider the WSJ ad to be mainstream claim that this statemnt represents the views only of those who wrote it (which is fewer than 50) which makes the statement fringe. We are having a similar debate over the AAA (American Anthropological Association; anthropology is the principal discipline that studies "race") and AAPA (American Association of Physical Anthropologists; this is a field of anthropology that specializes on human genetic variation) statements - do the officials of these organizations represent their disciplines, or only themselves?
Finally, Rushton and Jensen are psychologists. Psychology is not the academic discipline that specializes in the study of heredity. Two academic disciplines are relevant: Physical Anthropologists who study population genetics are principal experts on human hereditary. Evolutionary Biologists are also experts on heredity. Have any of these scientists established the degree to which intellectual diferences between Blacks and Whites is genetic? Some editors argue that these views are essential to deciding if Rushton and the WSJ ad is fringe or mainstream.
To be clear: Rather than taking an a priori position that there are "two sides" to this issue (e.g. hereditarian vs. non-hereditarian), we should begin by looking at multiple approaches to the question - biology, cultural anthropology, physical anthropology, psychology, sociology, etc. and find out how they view the question, how many significant views are there and how they understand the differences among these views. It is my sense that some scientists see this as a debate with two sides. I am not sure all scientists view it this way.
I think these are the core issues that need mediation.
From one perspective, these disputes should be resolvable based on strict adherance to WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. However, when it comes to identifying wha is a fringe view, you need to know what fields of science are involved in the claim that "Blacks are to some degree inherently inferior to Whites, intellectually." Rushton and Jensen are psychologists, but anthropologists and sociologists who study race, and biologists and anthropologists who study human genetics, also claim expertise. I think having a clear sense of which academic discipline has how much expertise over what is also essential. This question is at the heart of the dispute, and in my experience no mediation can be successful unless it can find criteria all parties agree are objective and neutral for answering this question.
The dispute centers on how much space in the article should be devoted to the "genetic hypothesis," i.e., the belief that a non-zero portion of the observed racial difference in IQ is due to genetic differences. Some of the editors view this as "fringe" hypothesis, suggesting via WP:FRINGE that very little if any space should be devoted to it in this article. The other editors view it as a "minority" hypothesis, arguing that the numerous articles in the peer-reviewed literature which support it make it more than "fringe" and that, therefore, via WP:UNDUE a discussion of the "genetic hypothesis" belongs in the article.
The outcomes I seek are a) A ruling about whether or not the "genetic hypothesis" meets the definition of WP:FRINGE and b) A suggestion about the percentage (5%, 30%, 50%, whatever) of the article that should be devoted to the "genetic hypothesis." I recommend that the mediator conclude that the "genetic hypothesis" does not meet the standards of WP:FRINGE and that, therefore, a significant percentage (25%) of the article should be devoted to explaining it via references to the peer-reviewed literature. I do not think that the editors of this article would fight over content. We agree (I hope!) about what Jensen, Rushton, Lynn, Gottfredson, Hernstein, Murray et al believe. We just disagree about how much weight these views should be given in the article. I thank all the editors for participating in this moderation. I apologize if I have mischaracterized the dispute. David.Kane ( talk) 21:20, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
§1. Description of the dispute: Fundamentally, this dispute revolves around whether or not the so-called "hereditarian" view, which claims that the differences between the IQ scores of Whites and Blacks is due, in some part, to genetics, deserves adequate representation in the article Race and intelligence. Another way this has been put is: Is the hereditarian position "fringe" science, or is it a minority view? This is important, for it determines how much coverage the hereditarian position should receive in the article.
§2. Progession of the dispute: Several editors raised the point that the hereditarian position was inadequately represented in the article. Other editors countered by claiming that the hereditarian position was adequately represented. In the view of some, most of the coverage of the hereditarian position in the article is in the form of criticism, and there is very little which attempts to explain the hereditarian position itself. Others respond to this claim by arguing that the hereditarian position is "fringe", and thus only deserves to be criticized. They further argue that to explain the hereditarian position would be a violation of WP:UNDUE.
§3. Outcome sought: I believe that the hereditarian position falls safely within the definition of a "minority" view. As such, I would like to see the hereditarian position receive adequate representation. By "adequate", I mean a presentation which allows the reader to understand why the proponents of the hereditarian position support that position. This goes above and beyond any question of the proportion of said representation. I am interested in neither the public popularity of these views nor in haggling over the percentage of coverage they receive. My primary interest resides in seeing that both sides of the academic dispute are presented in a coherent and understandable fashion. What comes after that is, in my opinion, the result of a popularity contest, and I do not plan to participate past the point of seeing that both sides are fairly and coherently represented.
§4. Wikipedia Policies: WP:NPOV, WP:UNDUE, WP:NOR/ WP:SYNTH, WP:ASG (which I personally extend to experts as well as to editors), WP:MNA, WP:RS.
§5. Proposal: I think that we could begin the process of resolution if all the involved editors could agree on several key points:
I by and large agree with Slrubenstein's statement, particularly that the focus of the article should become stable and that the article talk page should not become a forum for open-ended debate. The article at present does not cover all of the recent major academic contributions to this debate and should make every attempt to do so in an even-handed way. The hereditarian point of view should be carefully outlined, but without giving a false impression of its degree of acceptance. As Slr has written the "open letter" in the WSJ by a self-selected and like-minded group of academics should not receive WP:UNDUE weight, if other distinguished academics have expressed disagreement (as is the case). At present there has not been a systematic attempt to ensure that the broad spectrum of mainstream academic opinion has been properly represented. One problem is that the very narrow topic of a possible correlation between race, whatever that means, and intelligence, whatever that means, has not been widely studied in academia. This makes it hard to write an article on it for an encyclopedia, since many aspects will remain inconclusive because they either have not been sufficiently studied or have not been deemed worthy to be studied. Scrupulous attention should be paid to not ignoring or dismissing important sources, particularly those by eminent academics. Perhaps the most important point is that all key sources should first be carefully identified. These should be carefully summarised in the article, without prejudice. If only a handful of academics favour a particular viewpoint, i.e. it is a minoritarian viewpoint, that should be made clear. There does not seem to be any evidence that "Race and Intelligence" is a major topic of research, discussion or debate in the majority of academic departments specializing in psychometrics or related disciplines. We should be extremely cautious not to approach the writing of this article with that viewpoint. Mathsci ( talk) 23:26, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The debate over "race and intelligence" stems from the incontrovertible observation that self-defined "Blacks" score lower on average than self-defined "Whites" on many standard performance and/or aptitude tests. Many interpretations have been made of this puzzling observation.
I believe that it is possible, using available literature, to demonstrate that this last position (often dubbed the "hereditarian position") is in fact the purview of a minority of very vocal scientists, and that mainstream opinion can safely be attributed to the "environmental position".
However, help is needed in arriving at a consensus on determining exactly how strong this vocal minority holding the hereditarian position is, and what would be due weight in presenting their position within the article. My concern is the distinct possibilty that in trying to properly explain the minority hereditarian position, undue weight may be given to it space-wise within the article. But, as I said, I'm aiming for fair and due representation of this position, after we've arrived at a consensus on exactly how to qualify this minority position (fringe, small minority, significant minority, full-blown alternative explanation?)-- Ramdrake ( talk) 23:27, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Some review papers that could help in this discussion:
Hope it helps.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 23:07, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with statments of Slrubenstein and Ramdrake. Talk:Race and intelligence has 74 archives, which means the material related to the current dispute has been debated several times in the past. The main controversy is how much weight should be given to the hereditarian viewpoint. The hereditarian position is indeed supported by a group of like minded scientists who for the most part are connected to the Pioneer Fund. There are not many, if any, mainstream publications that support the hereditarian position that are not in some way associated with pioneer fund publications. The hereditarian position therefore qualifies as a minority position. According to WP:UNDUE
Wapondaponda ( talk) 00:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
1) the construction of the dispute in your opinion
There are three points of serious (scholarly) dispute on this topic which raise policy issues for editors:
The third issue has caused the most difficulty recently. The issue is whether the "hereditarian" or "genetic" hypothesis is a fringe view.
2) the nature of the dispute as it has progressed
3) the outcome you originally seek coming into this mediation [your opinion]
In my opinion, it's incorrect to treat the "hereditarian" or "genetic" hypothesis as a fringe view. We have no way of knowing how many people actually ascribe to that view affirmatively (the survey from the 1980s not withstanding), but a great many scholars who hold a variety of views on the question nonetheless treat it seriously as a matter for empirical debate. We should do the same. For example, I see no reason that the views in [2-4] shouldn't be prominently summarized.
Secondarily, I do not see any way to account for how many hold which views. Most apex sources arrive at the conclusion that: "past research on both racial and gender differences in intelligence has been marked by methodological errors and overgeneralizations by researchers on all sides of the issue"[1] and that no one knows what causes the differences[5]. They explicitly do not conclude that environmental causes are known to be the explanation and that genetic causes are known not to contribute.
4) Wikipedia Policies that come into play in your opinion
WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE are the central point of content dispute.
WP:MNA, WP:RS, WP:NOR are important:
The debate was characterized by strong assertions as well as by strong feelings. Unfortunately, those assertions often revealed serious misunderstandings of what has (and has not) been demonstrated by scientific research in this field. Although a great deal is now known, the issues remain complex and in many cases still unresolved.[5]
Another unfortunate aspect of the debate was that many participants made little effort to distinguish scientific issues from political ones. Research findings were often assessed not so much on their merits or their scientific standing as on their supposed political implications. In such a climate, individuals who wish to make their own judgments find it hard to know what to believe.[5]
5) proposed ways to resolve the issue or points of mutual agreement that could begin an objective process to a resolution
In addition to the proposals by Varoon Arya, I would add:
references:
[1] http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1745-6916.2007.00037.x [2] Mainstream Science on Intelligence [3] Jensen (1998) [4] Rushton and Jensen (2005) [5] APA's 1996 report
-- DJ ( talk) 00:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
For a Wikipedia article on any topic about which there is a scientific controversy, one of the most important characteristics the article needs to have is that a person can come to it with little or no knowledge of the topic, and come away from it having a general understanding of the controversy that exists about it, along with the viewpoints and arguments expressed by both sides. There are several policies that relate to this principle, but WP:NPOV is probably the most important. In accordance with NPOV policy, all significant points of view which have been published by reliable sources should be included in the article, in rough proportion to their prominence in the source material.
I don’t think it’s difficult to demonstrate that a legitimate scientific controversy exists about race and intelligence. Two collective statements about this which have been discussed here so far are Mainstream Science on Intelligence and Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns. The first of these was originally published in The Wall Street Journal with the signatures of 52 experts in the relevant fields, and later republished in the peer-reviewed journal Intelligence. Since it has passed peer review for this professional journal, which is the same criterion used to judge accuracy for everything else published in it, the fact that this article began as a newspaper editorial should not be important, although I agree that it cannot be assumed to represent more than the viewpoints of the 52 experts who signed it. Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns is a report written by an 11-member task force appointed by the American Psychological Association. Both of these reports state that the cause of the 15-point gap between the average IQ of Black and White people in the United States remains an open question, and the “Mainstream Science” statement presents the hereditarian hypothesis (that genetics contribute to it) and the environmental hypothesis (that it’s caused exclusively by environmental factors) on approximately equal terms. The APA statement is slightly more critical of the hereditarian hypothesis than of the view that it is caused only by environmental factors, but also emphasizes that neither viewpoint can be known with certainty to be correct or incorrect.
Another source of information about the views of scientists on this topic is the Snydernan and Rothman study, a study from 1988 which examined the views of intelligence researchers about the cause of the IQ difference, and found that a majority of them held the opinion that both genetics and environment contributed to it. (Although the proportion would have no doubt been lower if the study had also included anthropologists and geneticists.) A few editors have claimed that the results of this study are inaccurate due to problems such as sampling bias, but because these criticisms have not appeared in any reliable sources, they need to be considered original research; I think most of the people involved in this article agree on this point. And lastly, the most recent examination of the conflicting views on this issue is the June 2005 issue of the peer-reviewed APA journal Psychology, Public Policy and Law, which was devoted to this controversy. For this issue of their journal, the APA chose to publish a collection of six different papers representing the various viewpoints on this topic. The issue’s featured paper, Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability, is a detailed argument for the hereditarian position by Jensen and Rushton. In addition to the featured paper, the APA chose to publish two other papers that take a pro-hereditarian stance in this issue, as well as two which favor the environmental position, and one which takes an intermediate viewpoint, arguing for an interaction between biological and environmental factors. The last of these, by Suzuki & Aronson, ascribes less importance to heredity than is done by Rushton and Jensen, but more than is done most of their critics. The respective weight that the APA gave to each of the viewpoints expressed in this issue demonstrates the way that they decided these viewpoints should be balanced against one another in a neutral publication.
As far as I know, these are the only sources which have attempted to neutrally present the nature of the dispute itself. Although numerous sources exist which describe the hereditarian viewpoint as “fringe”, or which describe the environmental view as being guilty of the moralistic fallacy, all of these are sources which themselves are explicitly arguing for one viewpoint or the other. Since this issue is presented as a legitimate scientific controversy by all of the sources which are not attempting to prove or disprove one viewpoint about it, I believe that NPOV policy requires Wikipedia’s article to present this topic in a similar manner.
In my opinion, some of the earlier versions of the article did a fairly good job with this. Several times I’ve mentioned the version from December of 2006 as accurately presenting both sides of the controversy, as well as including several pieces of relevant information which are missing from the current article, such as the social and practical significance of the IQ difference, which is important regardless of whether or not genetic factors contribute to this difference. (Not to say that this version of the article is perfect, of course.) However, over the past three years, more and more information about the hereditarian perspective has gradually been removed from the article, until at this point it presents virtually no information about the hereditarian perspective except to criticize it, and most of the arguments used in favor of this viewpoint are not mentioned anywhere. For an article on a topic about which a significant scientific controversy exists, I am of the opinion that presenting the arguments used by one side but not the other is a violation of NPOV policy.
There are many reasons this has happened, but all of them seem to relate to one basic trend in this article’s history, which is that most of the time editors who favored the environmental viewpoint have been more numerous and more active than those who favor the hereditarian viewpoint. In theory this should not make a difference, because NPOV policy is that each viewpoint’s respective weight in the article should be determined by that viewpoint’s prevalence in the source material, not by its prevalence among the editors involved in the article. In practice, however, consensus to remove information about the hereditarian hypothesis from the article has generally been quite easy to obtain, while obtaining consensus to add back any such information has been nearly impossible. This trend has had in a long-term effect on the article’s overall balance.
What I would like to result from this mediation is an overall, long-term guideline on the degree of representation that each viewpoint on this topic should receive in the article. I agree with Varoon Arya that the most important point which can be determined here is whether the hereditarian hypothesis deserves enough space to be presented coherently and understandably; I am of the opinion that in the current article it is not given enough space even for this, and that the fact that it isn't is a violation of NPOV policy. However, in the interest in avoiding similar disputes in the future, I would also like this mediation to suggest an approximate percentage of coverage that this view should receive, as suggested by David.Kane.
Perhaps one way to begin this discussion would be if each of us were to suggest the proportions / percentages of representation that should be given to each of these views, assuming other editors here agree that the arguments used in favor of the hereditarian view should be included in any form. I think the sources I’ve mentioned about the nature of this controversy make it fairly clear that the hereditarian hypothesis is a significant-minority view, and as such deserves inclusion in the article, but other editors may disagree. -- Captain Occam ( talk) 01:17, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
There are several issues at play which have made reaching consensus difficult in this article. The foremost in my opinion is the title of the article. There is no such thing as "race-and-intelligence", but rather a debate over the connection between these two constructs. The current title sets an a-priori assumption that such a connection exists and is significant, introducing a bias not supported by the literature. I feel the article could be edited more productively if it had a less ambiguous (and IMO less POV) title. This point is echoed by Dbachmann ( talk · contribs) in this thread. If this cannot be solved by changing the title, the lead should be adjusted to reflect some agreed upon focus. In the past, the lead has gone through many drastic changes; stabilizing the lead would help to focus editors and build consensus.
An important secondary issue is disagreement over interpretation of NPOV, and in particular wp:UNDUE. There is agreement that the "hereditarian" hypothesis (50/50 genes-to-environment according to Rushton and Jensen) is a minority hypothesis, but disagreement over how best to exhibit this status. Straightforward percentages of content seem restrictive and difficult to quantify. WP:VALID is also very important policy to consider in this issue.
A related issue which would greatly aid in consensus building is the need to agree on which literature reviews should be considered the most authoritative and neutral. By establishing the basic sources which should inform our understanding of academic consensus, many peripheral arguments will be solved. I believe the APA statement is an important starting point. It reads:
Reviewing the intelligence debate at its meeting of November 1994, the Board of Scientific Affairs (BSA) of the American Psychological Association (APA) concluded that there was urgent need for an authoritative report on these issues--one that all sides could use as a basis for discussion. Acting by unanimous vote, BSA established a Task Force charged with preparing such a report. Ulric Neisser, Professor of Psychology at Emory University and a member of BSA, was appointed Chair. The APA Board on the Advancement of Psychology in the Public Interest, which was consulted extensively during this process, nominated one member of the Task Force," the Committee on Psychological Tests and Assessment nominated another," a third was nominated by the Council of Representatives. Other members were chosen by an extended consultative process, with the aim of representing a broad range of expertise and opinion. [9]
I believe that controversial figures such as Rushton and Jensen should be approached as suggested in Wikipedia:RS#Extremist_and_fringe_sources. Only RS secondary sources which discuss their research should be used.
Finally, there have been many instances of editors describing or referring to the actions of other editors on the talk page rather than the content. For the most part, these claims come across as accusations rather than constructive criticism, and serve only to poison the editing atmosphere. Per wp:NPA and wp:TALK, there should be restrictions on what kind of discussions are allowed to stay on the talk page. (those policies allow for refactoring comments not related to content) Any genuine issues should be brought to wp:ANI or a similar noticeboard. T34CH ( talk) 03:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Reubzz ( talk) 22:03, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Please note participants, that I am not a Judge or Arbitor in this matter. WP policy is split between user issues and content issues. There is no "ruling body" on content issues, as the Mediation Committee still makes no rulings and the ArbCom only gets invovled in serious matters of disputes between users and/or administrators.
Simply put, this is a process for me to help guide you to a solution, not hear evidence and make a ruling. I wish I could just issue a non-binding ruling/guideline but process precludes me from doing so. Reubzz ( talk) 04:14, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
User:Reubzz has edited WP for 10 days with less than 500 edits. He did not bother to reveal his astonishing lack of experience. I have reported him for disruption at WP:ANI. I will not participate in mediation under such an inexperienced editor of WP. Please could we initiate moves to find someone better suited to the task? Mathsci ( talk) 23:30, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Quick question: to what extent are the expressly non-hereditarian sources in opposition to hereditarian theories? Xavexgoem ( talk) 13:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
To elaborate on David Kane's comment: In my experience, it largely depends upon the source. If one takes the more sober proponents of the environmentalist or non-hereditarian position, such as James R. Flynn, then there is a purely scientific opposition. That is to say, Flynn takes the arguments of hereditarians such as Arthur Jensen seriously, and evaluates them on their scientific merits. There are other environmentalist, however, who reject hereditarian arguments on what are, by and large, moral grounds. They often accuse hereditarians of "racialism" or outright "racism", and put great emphasis on the controversies surrounding the individuals supporting the hereditarian position, questioning their academic credentials, their sources of funding, their affiliations, and anything which could give the impression that hereditarians are not to be taken seriously except as proponents of "radical racist science", and typically do very little to contradict the actual arguments hereditarian use to support their claims. While hereditarians take the criticism and contrary findings of sober non-hereditarians such as Flynn seriously, they typically respond to such moral accusations as lacking any scientific value. It's a highly charged situation, and there's quite a bit of rhetoric and moral posturing involved.
As far as the positions themselves go: The "hereditarian" position posits a mixture of genetic and environmental causes. As a result, proponents are typically more open to findings which advance claims regarding particular environmental factors which could influence the development of intelligence. They directly oppose, however, any attempts to explain all of the difference between groups as due to environmental causes alone. This, they argue, is simply not possible given the widely accepted results of within-group studies (e.g. that genetics plays a considerable role in the manifestation of intelligence within groups of the same racial or ethnic background). They further argue that the non-hereditarian position is fueled more by socio-political interests than by critical scientific acumen.
The "environmentalist" position posits that only environmental causes can explain the IQ differences between groups. Most - and, typically, the most vocal - proponents categorically reject any research which shows that genetics could play any role in this difference. There are some who are compelled to admit that genetics may play some role, but that it is so small, that it's best for all involved if we just ignore it.
Granted, both positions are hard to prove given the nature of the subject and the limitations of the research methods. If we were able to ignore the moral component, I think the non-hereditarian position would reveal itself as the more scientifically radical of the two, given the nature of the position itself. In the only study conducted to determine consensus on this, 45% of polled experts reported holding views compatible with the hereditarian position, while 15% held views compatible with non-hereditarianism. The study was conducted in the late 1980s, so it's unclear how much those numbers have shifted. Several editors here reject the validity of the study entirely, and even mentioning it can cause conflict. I'm willing to grant that its results are somewhat dated, but I do not think that there has been any radical breakthrough in research in the last 20 years which would make such a large portion of the academic community change its mind. On the contrary, proponents of the hereditarian view feel that their position has been strengthened by findings which have been produced since then. With that being said, there is no shortage of claims from non-hereditarians that only a few isolated "radical mavericks" hold hereditarian views. As there has been no formal study since the 1987 Snyderman and Rothman study to determine this, I think it's obvious that such claims should be taken with a grain of salt.
These are, in my opinion, the core points anyone coming to this discussion needs to know in order to determine whether the hereditarian position deserves adequate representation in the article under discussion. -- Aryaman (talk) 15:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to try and briefly summarize two of the central points raised in our discussion so far. Forgive me if you feel I fail to characterize your comments or your position correctly, as that's not my intent. I'm simply trying to identify the common ground so that we can build upon it. I'm not trying to do the job of the mediators, either. I'm just trying to make sure I'm on the same page as everyone else here.
The "Minority" vs. "Fringe" Question: Slrubenstein (and possibly Mathsci also) has brought up the point that it may be the case that all researchers who study the correlation between race and intelligence, and indeed, the whole sub-field, might be considered "fringe" if pitted against broader categories of scientific pursuit, such as anthropology, biology or sociology. S/He's very likely right. The study of this correlation is by no means a major area of research when seen from the perspective of the sciences as a whole, and we might well be able to describe it as on the "fringe". To my knowledge, no one is trying to portray this as some huge field of research, or to exaggerate its relative significance. There are literally a handful of scholars on either side, no more. So, I don't think anyone here would object to this point raised by Slrubenstein. Can we, then, agree that this would identify scholars on both sides of the ideological divide, such as Flynn on the one side and Jensen on the other, as studying on the "fringe" of mainstream science?
Ramdrake seems to agree that the hereditarian position is held by a "minority of very vocal scientists". If s/he used the term "minority" instead of "fringe" selectively, then I think this is a sign of progress which we can build upon. Of course, it seems s/he's still open to referring to it as a "fringe" position, but it might be progress all the same.
Muntuwandi also refers to the hereditarian position as a "minority" position. Again, if this was intentional, then we're definitely making progress in the right direction. I would like to (in good humor, of course) remind Muntuwandi of the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon when discussing connections to the Pioneer Fund. Given their list of associates, it would not be very hard to connect a substantial portion of academe to the Pioneer Fund in some way or another.
T34CH goes so far as to say there is agreement that hereditarianism is a "minority" position, and for him/her, it's simply a question of how much coverage it should receive.
Distribute Justice, Captain Occam and David Kane have all voiced the opinion that the hereditarian position should safely qualify as a "minority" view and not "fringe". Personally, when I hear "fringe", I tend to think of pseudo-scientific claims such as "the earth is flat", "the earth is hollow", "the moon landings were a hoax", or more generally, of developments such as Transhumanism. I don't think of the work of otherwise duly qualified scholars such as Flynn, Jensen, Gottfredson, Plomin, Sternberg, or Wicherts, all of whom represent important institutions of higher learning. Am I alone in this? I hope not.
Thus, on the question of "mainstream vs. fringe", I see good reasons to think that we're slowly forming a consensus that hereditarianism is a "minority" position. Please indicate if this is not the case.
The Question of Proportions: Ramdrake mentions that one of his principle concerns is that, by "trying to properly explain the minority hereditarian position, undue weight may be given to it within the article". This is, indeed, a valid concern. We don't want the article to give the impression that the hereditarian position is held in any higher esteem than it actually may be (though, I think we all agree that there is some difficulty in establishing exactly how much esteem it actually enjoys). We all seem to be willing to agree that more experts probably hold the environmental position than hold the hereditarian position, and that the article should reflect this. Can we, then, agree that, regardless of the amount of space given to the hereditarian position in comparison to the environmental position, that the hereditarian position, as a minority position, needs to be presented coherently, or in Ramdrake's words, "properly"? Further, can we agree to focus on a coherent presentation of the hereditarian position first, determining how much is necessary, and then work towards building the environmental position accordingly? If we take that approach, then I think we should be able to solve two problems at once.
I would appreciate hearing from those who have commented thus far regarding whether the above characterization is fair, and whether you could agree to the points raised. Thanks, -- Aryaman (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
New bunches of statements.
Be as brief of verbose as you need to be.
There are a number of papers discussing the hereditarian position. However, it is important to note that the great majority of those papers come from a few researchers in the field of psychometrics, a few of them particularly prolific (I'm among others thinking of Rushton with 50+ papers on the subject). However, this subject should in all logic also interest the fields of anthropology, population genetics and neuroscience among others. Searching through those fields finds few if any proponents of the hereditarian position, and a certain number of researchers that have written papers on the subject either on a cautionary tone, or who have outright denounced the research for a number of reasons. It therefore seems to have been uniformly, heavily criticized outside of the field of psychology, and even within that field, its legitimate status has come under attack by many (Mackintosh, Nisbett, etc.) Without insisting that the hereditarian position is fringe, this at least should demonstrate that it is the position of a small minority. Therefore,if it is to be described, it should be described rather succintly. Previously, discussions were held to introduce one such argument used by some hereditarian researchers, namely that intelligence is a function of brain size, and that Blacks have smaller brains. TO my knowledge, the only researchers advancing this argument are Rushton and in a lesser position Jensen. Another section which was pushed for reintroduction was a section from the Dec 2006 version of the article which waxed verbose on the social outcomes of IQ, linking the lower IQ scores of Blacks to all sorts of social misfortunes. I am of the contention that the hereditarian position can be adequately summarized in the article without devoting entire sections to suggestions which are tantamount to OR and which come very close to what one could call scientific racism.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 21:44, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Reply to Captain Occam:With all due respect, I believe an important caveat needs to be introduced here: virtually all of the evidence for (or against) this theory is within the field of psychometrics isn't an accurate description. Virtually all of the evidence for this theory has been claimed by psychometricians is more correct. Most of the claimed evidence comes the fields of genetics, anthropology, neurology, etc. and has been interpreted by psychometricians to support the hereditarian position (one needs only to think of Rushton's notorious meta-analyses). It is also in part because psychometricians have claimed to reinterpret this data to support their hypothesis that they have come under criticism, as non-experts dabbling in another field (see the faous example of Watson's claim about African intelligence), even though they are experts in their own field. I have other issues with this statement, but I'll wait for Reubzz to confirm where is the best place to make those comments.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 00:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I still maintain that most of the evidence presented to support the hereditarian hypothesis comes from fields other that psyhchometrics: the brain size issue comes from neuroanatomy, heritability and between group heritability come from population genetics, and so on. The only supporting arguments which would be the purview of psychometricians are IQ test results themselves and considerations of g loading. Also, there are some affirmations that just aren't true: one topic in genetics which is relevant to this article is whether socially-defined racial groups correlate with genetic clusters based on biogeographical ancestry. (The consensus seems to be that they do..) We have supplied several reviews which show that the mainstream position in genetics is actually that socially-constructed races are not supported by genetic cluster analysis. I have also supplied several reviews to the effect that the hereditarian hypothesis finds few if any adherents outside the field of psychometrics. Therefore, I would say that devoting 25% of the article to the hereditarian hyptohesis (when of the remaining 75% we have to talk about the history of the debate, the consensus position on "race" and on "intelligence", those who hold these studies meaningless because they refute the biological reality of races or that intelligence can be reduced to a single number, and then the environemental hypothesis basically boils down to given equal validity to the hereditarian hypothesis.--01:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I take strong exception to Varoon Arya's statement that psychometricians are the "real experts" in this subject and that other fields are "tangentially involved": by the very definition of its terms "race and intelligence" is a multidisciplinary endeavour, partaking of genetics (for heredity concerns, WGH and BGH and concerns of the biological meaning of "race"), neurobiology (for the anatomical substratum of intelligence), psychology (for IQ measurements), anthropology (for concerns of race as a social construct and in some measure as a biological construct through physical anthropology), sociology (for policy implications) and even philosophy of science (for the ethics of the research). All these fields are involved with no one field having obviously "more expertise" than another. Therefore, I believe we should evaluate the position of all these fields on the matter as being on par with each other, as opposed to psychometrics (arguably the one most favorable to the hereditarian position) being given a dominant position over the others. This might be one of the points we need to mediate specifically. However, re-reading Varoon Arya's comment, I'm thinking fo something else we should probably discuss and agree on: is the article about the "environmental vs hereditarian debate", in which case VA is actually right that it ouccurs betweeen psychometricians and behavioral geneticists mainly, or is it about "race and intelligence as a field of study", in which case my comment just above stands: we need to involve all other fields on a par with psychometricians and behavioral geneticists.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 17:11, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
On the subject of WP:MNA, I'd be very careful, as some criticism comes from scientists who directly challenge the biololgical meaning of "races", and others who challenge IQ as a proper representation of intelligence. We cannot start the article by making the assumptions that race is biologically meaningful, or that IQ properly measures intelligence, as the first of these is against mainstream opinion and the second is contested by a significant proportion of experts. These considerations, which pre-empt the debate, also need to be included in the article.-- Ramdrake ( talk) 19:40, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
The article should devote at least 25% of its content, measured by word-count, to an explanation of, and the evidence for, the hereditarian position, as discussed in papers in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. David.Kane ( talk) 22:25, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I hate to think of this in hard numbers, as this is very limiting. It should be enough to explain what the hypothesis is and why, without getting into a back and forth debate about the evidence. 25% is a strange number to use if we're also going to include a description of the each of the environmental hypotheses, as this would give it equal or greater presence in the article. (this is especially true if we are to have an overview section, history, etc etc) The APA lit review finds some evidence for environmental influence and no evidence for genetic influence. Thus, more space and attention should be given to the explanations for racial differences in IQ (as opposed to intelligence) where some evidence exists.
Of course, a different focus and structure to the article would change my answer. I'm open to the ideas Slrubenstein is suggesting. T34CH ( talk) 23:37, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Ramdrake that the majority of support for the hereditarian hypothesis comes from researchers in the field of psychometrics, and that it receives less support from researchers in most other areas. However, something that I think needs to be considered is that virtually all of the evidence for (or against) this theory is within the field of psychometrics, so psychometricians are inevitably going to be more qualified to make judgments about the strength or weaknesses of this evidence than researchers in other fields would be. Hypothetically, one might expect geneticists to be able to make a judgment about whether genes which influence IQ are distributed unequally between ethnic groups, but at this point most geneticists are agreed that none of the specific genes which influence IQ have yet been conclusively identified, and only a few of them (such as DTNBP1 and CHRM2) have been identified as candidates. Therefore, while genetics can certainly be expected to make a significant contribution to this debate once it becomes possible to compare the distribution of IQ-influencing genes between ethnic groups, genetics has not yet progressed to the point where it can provide much evidence about the cause of the IQ difference.
That isn’t to say genetics has nothing to contribute to this topic; at the very least, one topic in genetics which is relevant to this article is whether socially-defined racial groups correlate with genetic clusters based on biogeographical ancestry. (The consensus seems to be that they do, although Varoon Arya can provide more papers on this point than I can.) However, if the article provides the views of geneticists about the cause of the IQ difference with equal weight to the views of psychometricians about this, we risk running into the problem Slrubenstein described of ignoring the issue of which academics are most qualified to interpret the evidence in question.
The way I think the hereditarian hypothesis’s representation in the article should be determined is by first determining the percentage of psychometricians who favor this viewpoint. The Snyderman & Rothman study found that a majority of intelligence researchers favor this viewpoint. Not all psychometricians are intelligence researchers, but intelligence researchers make up a sizable portion of them, so assuming the rate of acceptance of this theory is somewhat lower in other areas of psychometrics, we can place the acceptance of this theory at around 50% in psychometrics as a whole. Then there’s the question of how the views of psychometricians should be weighted against the views of researchers in other areas. Although researchers in other areas are obviously more numerous than psychometricians, as I stated earlier they also are not quite as qualified to evaluate evidence which is almost exclusively within the field of psychometrics. Therefore, I think viewpoints inside and outside psychometics should be given approximately equal representation in the article. Since this means the views of psychometricians being given around 50% of the space devoted to explanations of the IQ difference, and the hereditarian hypothesis being given around 50% of the space devoted to the views of psychometricians, this means the space given to the hereditarian hypothesis should be around 50% of 50%, or 25%. In other words, I largely agree with David.Kane’s suggestion, although not necessarily for the same reason.
Regarding specific points: the most contentious line of data I’ve suggested be included is the one about variation in brain size, and part of the reason for others’ opposition to this has been because it’s discussed mainly by Jensen and Rushton. However, the most commonly-cited paper I’ve been able to find about this is not by Jensen or Rushton; it’s Analysis of brain weight. I. Adult brain weight in relation to sex, race, and age by Ho, Roessmann, Straumfjord, and Monroe. This was published in Archives of Pathology and Laborotory Medicine, and according to Google Scholar is cited by 89 other papers; Jensen and Rushton are not by any means the only other researchers discussing this study. Therefore, it seems negligent for our article to not mention it.
The last specific piece of content that’s been discussed so far is the functional and social significance of the IQ difference. I don’t think this section should be as contentious as it apparently is, for three reasons. First: the functional and social effects of the IQ difference would be the same regardless of whether this IQ difference is caused by genetic or environmental factors, so discussing this does not favor one hypothesis over another. Second: the social and functional outcomes with which IQ correlates are not particularly controversial; for example, the APA statement regards them as well-established. And third: the social and functional outcome of the IQ difference is perhaps the least taboo aspect of this topic. It has a well-known name—the racial achievement gap—and is discussed by well-known education specialists such as Abigail Thernstrom. (Thernstrom recognizes the social and functional effects of the IQ difference, but believes the IQ difference to be environmentally caused, and potentially reducible through remedial education.) To dismiss the views of the vice-chair of the United States Commission on Civil Rights as “scientific racism” seems absurd. -- Captain Occam ( talk) 23:59, 16 November 2009 (UTC
I would ask all parties to refrain from making these massive statements. This subject is anything but simple, but I do believe that there must be a way of shortening the ideas you wish to express. It becomes difficult and stressful when I come back to my computer and find a massive discussion awaiting a long read. This is nothing against anyone, but for the sake of everyone, please try your best to shorten your statements. Cheers! Reubzz ( talk) 01:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
My reply to Ramdrake’s newest point: first of all, I wasn’t suggesting that the hereditarian hypothesis be given 25% of the total space in the article; I’m not sure whether or not that’s what David.Kane was suggesting, but I was under the impression that this isn’t what he wanted either. What I was suggesting is that it be given 25% of the space that’s devoted specifically to explanations of the cause of the IQ gap, with the remaining 75% being given to the various environmental explanations that have been proposed for it. (SES, stereotype threat, educational differences, and so on.) This is percentage is lower than the percentage it was given in the 2006 version, so I’m conceding that this is one way our article shouldn’t be modeled after that version.
“We have supplied several reviews which show that the mainstream position in genetics is actually that socially-constructed races are not supported by genetic cluster analysis.”
You’ve provided several studies that you claimed said this, and most of them only stated that genetics fails to support the idea of races with platonic categories with discrete boundaries. We discussed this only a few days ago. You quoted one such study, and the portion of it that you quoted stated that this correlation exists. The same study also pointed out that race is useful in a biomedical setting, because races have varying rates of reactions to certain drugs. Reactions to drugs are determined by genetics, not by social categories, so the correlation between socially-defined races and genetic clusters is clearly strong enough for races to differ in biological traits.
Regarding the evidence that’s used in favor of the hereditarian hypothesis: I think you must not be familiar with the evidence that’s cited in favor of this if you’re under the impression that most of it is outside the field of psychometrics. Since Arthur Jensen is generally considered the most prominent proponent of the hereditarian perspective, and his book The g Factor is his most detailed explanation of his viewpoint about this, I’m going to describe the organization of the chapter in this book where Jensen discusses theories about the cause of the IQ difference:
Jensen’s analysis of this is 96 pages long. 60 of those pages (63%) are taken up exclusively by psychometric evidence, and another 19 (20%) are taken up by evidence that combines psychometric data with evidence from other fields. If we split this 20% halfway between psychometrics and the other fields from which it uses data, we get a total of 73% of Jensen’s cited evidence for this theory coming from psychometrics. Because Jensen is the most prominent proponent of the hereditarian hypothesis, I think it’s reasonable to assume that his treatment of this evidence is representative of the overall proportions of fields from which this theory uses data.
Reubzz, you can move this comment if I’ve posted it in the wrong place (Right place, just make responces in area of your statement so mediators can see each person's opinions - Reubzz ( talk)). -- Captain Occam ( talk) 02:44, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
re: Xavexgoem's question. I would characterize Sternberg and Nisbett as anti-hereditarian as they take an affirmative stance that hereditarians are wrong. Flynn is essentially anti-hereditarian also. Others are more strictly non-hereditarian as they are also non-environmenalist. Note however that, for example, Nisbett (2009) and Sternberg et al (2005) disagree on many fundamental points. Each is nearly as different from one another as they are from Jensen (1998). They only happen to agree on the answer to the question: what's the contribution of genetic factors to group differences?
re: Multiple disciplines. This is mostly about psychometrics and psychology. Behavioral genetics, for example, is mostly practiced by psychologists (e.g. Thomas J. Bouchard, Jr.) for the reason that phenotype measurement requires specialization. There are prominent individuals from fields other than psychology, but no other field really owns this topic as does psychology and in particular "individual differences" psychology (for which "psychometrics" is often used as a synonym).
re: how much is enough? Enough to cover the data and arguments relevant to the hereditarian view just as we cover the variety of non-herediarian views. This can be accomplished by taking a data/argument-centric view rather than a conclusion-centric view. It likewise should be mentioned as one of many views where summaries are presented, such as the lede. This approach requires that we establish which particular data/arguments to include rather than whether to include hereditarian opinions or not. These topics are likely the most pro-hereditarian and thus the most controversial with regard to inclusion:
That order is loosely in order of increasing controversy. The downside of using a topic-centric approach is that no scholar's view is entirely clear at any one point unless more space is spent on that too. -- DJ ( talk) 08:07, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
-- DJ ( talk) 17:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)The problem is that presenting an argument based on poor-quality data, especially on such an emotional issue as racial differences, biases general acceptance of stronger findings supporting the argument. Gottfredson (1998, 2005) has correctly pointed out that findings of racial influences on intelligence are deeply disturbing to many social scientists who are then motivated to attack reports of differences. The use of measures that clearly violate construct validity, or that are obtained in a methodologically inappropriate way, provides the attackers with ammunition. The problem is not that there will be an effect on the beliefs of specialists in the field. The problem is that other psychologists, including textbook writers, may propagate the belief that all studies on a topic are flawed because certain highly publicized ones were. (Source: Hunt and Carlson 2007, p 202, emphasis added)
Addendum #1: I continue to prefer the data/argument-centric approach to NPOV accounting. However, if the head-count approach is going to be considered, then I think we need to consider that the anti-hereditarian POV is not endorsed by the apex sources in this field (those with the highest reliability, most implied neutrality, most diverse inbound citations, etc.), and that there are a large number of anti-hereditarians who do not reject the plausibility of the hereditarian view, but rather interpret the data as leaning against it. For example:
Likewise, in the 1980s survey, the second most common response, ahead of the environmentalist view, is "do not believe there are sufficient data to support any reasonable opinion". From this and more recent publications I think we can conclude that shades of "do not know" is actually the most common opinion of informed experts speaking neutrally rather than advancing a new hypothesis. It should be clear that holding this opinion requires not being convinced of either hereditarianism or environmentalism. It should also be clear that limiting discussion of pro-hereditarian data/arguments implicitly limits discussion of this view as well, which is clearly not acceptable per WP:NPOV. -- DJ ( talk) 17:26, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Addendum #2: Alternative suggestion for a next step: work on the lede. Have each interested editor or group of editors present a proposal for the lede. For example, see Talk:Race_and_intelligence#New_Intro.3F and Talk:Race_and_intelligence#The_opening_sentence. -- DJ ( talk) 03:52, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
The fact that somebody writes a lengthy tract to support their point of view does not mean that a wikipedia article should give WP:UNDUE coverage to that view. Citation counts or articles in the media cannot be used as justification. Gottfredson's list of supporters for the hereditarian viewpoint was in fact countered by a list of a similar number of academic anthropologists. Once the subject has been identified as a controversial minority view, even amongst academic psychologists, it is inappropriate for a WP article to represent it as anything else. It also seems completely unreasonable to label eminent academics that have criticized the hereditarian viewpoint as being in an "opposition camp". They are just "expert commentators". Nicholas Mackintosh and Richard Nisbett work in the area of psychometrics and are therefore in a position to comment, although this might be tangential to their principal areas of research and the comments might have been requested by journal editors (e.g. for book reviews). Since many of the explanations suggested by psychologists for the hereditarian point of view involve areas outside their expertise such as anthropology, sociology, evolutionary biology, genetics and statistics, extreme care must be taken. This is one of the key points made by commentators. There is no dispute that there are genetic and environmental factors influencing scores in IQ tests. However, that is not the same as the connection being discussed between race, whatever that is, and intelligence, whatever that is. The lists of factors compiled above by wikipedia editors suggest that they are acting like amateur psychologists/anthropologists/geneticists/statisticians. It's not up to WP editors to do that kind of WP:SYNTHesis or involve themselves on talk pages in that kind of debate: that is why we use sources, without adding further comment. In writing an article about a controversial, inconclusive and poorly studied topic (at least internationally), the most we can say is that it is controversial, inconclusive and not much studied in academia. Quite a lot can be written in the article about the historical debate in the USA, but not so much about any underlying science.
Just as a reminder of the controversy and charges of flawed scientific methodology, here is the conclusion of a book review from 2006 of Richard Lynn's book "Race Differences in Intelligence" by M. Henneberg in the Journal of Biosocial Science:
This book is a frightening example of how an intelligent European author with good skills of academic presentation can argue any case by selectively ignoring vast areas of research on the roles of individual biological variation, cultural traditions and biases in psychological testing, and by creating conceptual entities from unreliable observational phenomena. This is dangerous because, in the past, similar arguments have confirmed racist political and layperson attitudes, and at their extremes resulted in the holocaust and apartheid.
For these reasons, I think that only a short summary of one or two paragraphs is required for this minority view. It should be accompanied by a brief mention of and reference to criticisms, for example from the appendix in the 2009 book of Nisbett. Mathsci ( talk) 11:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
In my opinion, making a guideline in the form of a percentage or a number of paragraphs is neither justified nor feasible. The issue is whether the results of so-called "hereditarian" research should be adequately (i.e. in a manner which is coherent and sufficent to facilitate proper understanding) represented in the article. This would not be an issue if were it not for the fact that some editors insist upon scandalizing the work of researchers such as Jensen, Gottfredson, Rushton and Lynn. We would take a point-by-point approach (similar to what DJ has suggested), and simply report on findings which are either supportive or contradictory of a particular thesis (such as the improtance of SES, the role of test bias, the correlation of within-group heritability to between-group heritability, etc.). This would allow the article to focus on the issues involved and the arguments advanced instead of polarizing the issue any more than is absolutely necessary.
Those who disagree with me will likely say that I take this position because I want the hereditarian position over- or disproportionately represented. This is not true. I think that arguments stand or fall on their own merits, regardless of who makes them, and that the issue of proportional representation is being misused in this discussion to advance a particular point of view over another. Proportional representation (WP:UNDUE) was introduced as a key point of policy to make sure that people did not inflate the representation of pseudo- or non-scientific theories like the flat-earth theory in articles about the Earth. The hereditarian position is based upon neither pseudoscience nor "fringe" research. It's simply a set of interrelated hypotheses which, when taken together, lead to a potentially controversial conclusion. To argue that, by presenting findings which support the hereditarian position, or that, by presenting findings which contradict the environmentalist position, we run the risk of violating WP:UNDUE is both intellectually dishonest and, while arguably conforming to the letter of Wikipedia policy, in stark contrast to its spirit.
The point raised by Slrubenstein and Mathsci, i.e., that we should bring in the views of anthropologists, biologists, sociologists, non-behavioral geneticists, etc. is hardly an innocent appeal to ascertain the importance of this field of research. It's an attempt to marginalize the findings of hereditarians by showing that the prevailing opinion of scientists in those tangentially related fields, as they generally reject the concept of race as denoting anything other than a social construct, agrees with those opponents of hereditarianism who actually specialize in the relevant disciplines. This would give the impression that environmentalism is the only scientifically credible view, though by dishonest means. There is no good reason not to stick to the research which has been conducted by experts in the field of psychometrics and behavioral genetics. That they sometimes make appeals to the findings of other, related disciplines is no cause for alarm, as behavioral genetics is, by and large, interdisciplinary. Any critique made by anthropologists, sociologists or biologists of psychometricians being ill-qualified to make pronouncements upon the findings of their respective fields will be applicable to all such psychometricians, regardless of their particular findings. Thus, it would do nothing to advance this particular article.
To summarize, I think DJ and Occam have made the most viable suggestions, i.e. to approach the topic on a point-by-point basis, and to present the relevant findings regardless of origin. The body of the article should discuss these central issues fairly, and "pro-hereditarian" and/or "anti-environmental" findings should not be marginalized to a single section of the article. A separate section, perhaps titled "Conclusions", could be created to discuss the conclusions particular researchers draw from the body of research which has been discussed in the main section of the article. In that section, it should be made clear that the synthesis made by Jensen, Rushton, Lynn, etc., i.e. their conclusions, are highly controversial and do not find mainstream support. It should also be made clear that the majority of experts, both within the field of psychometrics and in other tangentially related fields, hold that either only the environment can account for between-group IQ differences, or that, if there is a genetic contribution, it is so small as to be insignificant. -- Aryaman (talk) 16:17, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
←Thanks for refactoring. I think the right way of viewing this is what would happen when adding a section on critical reception in an article on a book. The correct thing to do is normally to find all available reviews in academic journals (and possibly elsewhere) and then prepare a summary with citations. Both positive and negative criticisms should appear when they exist. I think I prepared the book reviews in the section Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations in the BLP of Richard Lynn. Any editor theoretically should be capable of making a summary given the sources. Other editors can later comment on how accurately the summary matches the sources and suggest modifications if necessary. Mathsci ( talk) 09:01, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Re: T34CH's latest comments: I'm certainly not claiming that we should "ignore" everything but the results of psychometricians. But it should have a subordinate and/or prefatory role in the article. See
WP:MNA.
As an example, the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, in their statement "Biological Aspects of Race", write:
Physical, cultural and social environments influence the behavioral differences among individuals in society. Although heredity influences the behavioral variability of individuals within a given population, it does not affect the ability of any such population to function in a given social setting. The genetic capacity for intellectual development is one of the biological traits of our species essential for its survival. This genetic capacity is known to differ among individuals. The peoples of the world today appear to possess equal biological potential for assimilating any human culture. Racist political doctrines find no foundation in scientific knowledge concerning modern or past human populations.
If this is the kind of statement we're discussing, I have no problem with including this information, provided it will satisfy the concerns of other editors, and provided it is allowed to stand exactly as it is written in the actual statement. (I add that last caveat because I recently discovered a badly mangled and clearly OR version of this statement in the Race article.)
Also, I would be surprised if any proponent of the hereditarian model, most of all Jensen, has ever claimed to provide "conclusive evidence". He's a scholar with controversial views, not a crackpot. Where are these claims regarding Jensen coming from, anyway? Perhaps actually reading Jensen's work would help dispel some of the misconceptions currently in circulation and get us back on track. -- Aryaman (talk) 22:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll make one last attempt at explaining my view on this issue, and then leave it up to the mediation process and the other editors to decide how we shall proceed.
Let us take the example of heredity. If we want to obtain a non-controversial definition of heredity, as well as explanations regarding how it is determined for human traits, it is probably best to turn to standard works on genetics. Provided doing so does not represent a violation of WP:MNA, I'm fine with including such information if it helps the reader understand the topic.
If, however, we want to discuss actual measurements of the heritability of a specific trait - in this case, intelligence - in a particular population, how can we do so without turning to the results of those who have conducted such studies? Disregarding whichever specific background a scientist may have, any research conducted on the heritability of intelligence in a population is relevant to the discussion of the heritability of intelligence in this article. If I haven't made that sufficiently clear before, I apologize. If including information from geneticists - or anyone from any discipline - who have not conducted research on the heritability of intelligence in populations can somehow improve this article's discussion of the heritability of intelligence, I'd like to know how. -- Aryaman (talk) 18:11, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
"Social scientists like to believe they are not hampered by the dominant ideologies of their times, but history consistently proves otherwise." I agree but why restrict it, why not just say "scientists?" Slrubenstein | Talk 22:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)