Earl Roberts
Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 2 Sep 2010 at 15:57:35 (UTC)
- Reason
- No longer used in any articles. Should probably be reviewed, anyway, since it was mistakenly nominated as the wrong person.
- Articles this image appears in
- [None]
- Previous nomination/s
- Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Lord Kitchener
- Nominator
- Adam Cuerden ( talk)
- Delist or find uses — Adam Cuerden ( talk) 15:57, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
- Delist unless uses can be found. J Milburn ( talk) 11:57, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
- Would putting this in the
Earl Roberts article satisfy the EV requirement for everyone?
Cowtowner (
talk) 16:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
- Which Earl Roberts is it?
J Milburn (
talk) 09:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, bad link there. I believe it is this
one. They look similar and his life story seems to fall in nicely.
Cowtowner (
talk) 17:31, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
- Well, firstly, we'd have to be certain, and, secondly, on what grounds do you feel the image would have EV there?
J Milburn (
talk) 00:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, that's the right person. See User talk:Durova/Archive 73#LOC error: Lord Kitchener picture. And you can see that on the LOC image page they've gone and changed the description to be Lord Roberts (with credit to Durova). howcheng { chat} 01:53, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- It would fit into the section currently titled "Other" which deals largely with his legacy. A caption noting his fame resulted in his being used in recruitment campaigns would be encyclopedic there.
Cowtowner (
talk) 04:52, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- Meh, I'm not wild about it. Perhaps if we had some sourced discussion of his appearance on posters, but the fact that the LOC wasn't even sure would suggest this isn't the most important or famous poster...
J Milburn (
talk) 10:34, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- The majority of the posters we have featured aren't the most important or famous; looking through some of them and their uses, it appears that this arrangement would meet the precedent for poster EV. At the same time, many of them may be candidates for delisting if we decide that this image doesn't live up to our criteria.
Cowtowner (
talk) 18:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- This is a poster that happens to feature a certain person. That doesn't mean it automatically has EV in the article about that person, and I'm not really seeing any reason to believe it does otherwise. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't see why we should have a lower precedent for images that have already been promoted than for images not yet promoted- it wouldn't pass today with that as a claim of encyclopedic value.
J Milburn (
talk) 22:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- I know you're not a dick ;-) (I've always though we've had a pretty good working relationship on here), I'm just looking through possibilities and interpreting the criteria and precedents. Personally, in that capacity I think the image would have been promoted given the apparently low EV standards for posters. That said the fact that this was misidentified makes it a very ambiguous case. Cowtowner ( talk) 00:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- This is a poster that happens to feature a certain person. That doesn't mean it automatically has EV in the article about that person, and I'm not really seeing any reason to believe it does otherwise. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't see why we should have a lower precedent for images that have already been promoted than for images not yet promoted- it wouldn't pass today with that as a claim of encyclopedic value.
J Milburn (
talk) 22:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- The majority of the posters we have featured aren't the most important or famous; looking through some of them and their uses, it appears that this arrangement would meet the precedent for poster EV. At the same time, many of them may be candidates for delisting if we decide that this image doesn't live up to our criteria.
Cowtowner (
talk) 18:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- Meh, I'm not wild about it. Perhaps if we had some sourced discussion of his appearance on posters, but the fact that the LOC wasn't even sure would suggest this isn't the most important or famous poster...
J Milburn (
talk) 10:34, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- Well, firstly, we'd have to be certain, and, secondly, on what grounds do you feel the image would have EV there?
J Milburn (
talk) 00:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, bad link there. I believe it is this
one. They look similar and his life story seems to fall in nicely.
Cowtowner (
talk) 17:31, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
- Which Earl Roberts is it?
J Milburn (
talk) 09:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
[Unindent] Let's review. I'm just going to look at WWI and WWII, since I don't think it's surprising or notable that, say, a lot of theatrical shows are illustrated with a poster for that show.
WWI: All the featured posters illustrate one or more articles in a strong way:
- We have various ones that go in articles on the history of some military branch or country ( File:Find_the_range_of_your_patriotism2.jpg, File:National_Fund_for_Welsh_Troops2.jpg, File:Canada_WWI_Victory_Bonds2.jpg/ File:Canada_WWI_l'Emprunt_de_la_Victoire2.jpg, File:Trumpetcallsa.jpg, File:WWINavyYeoman1.jpg, File:Yiddish_WWI_poster2.jpg).
- Aspects of the war: War savings stamps ( File:Joan_of_Arc_WWI_lithograph2.jpg); Australian Red Cross ( File:RedCrossNursen.jpg); and, of course, one of the most famous depictions of Uncle Sam ( File:Unclesamwantyou.jpg)
I have one more in the queue, which illustrates the artist's work, and the U-boat campaign File:William Allen Rogers - Only the Navy Can Stop This (WWI U.S. Navy recruitment poster).jpg
.jpg){kind=link}
WWII:
All the WWII images have as their main article ones that require to be illustrated by a poster: Nazi propaganda American propaganda during World War II, Rosie the Riveter, and Keep Calm and Carry On all have an FP.
Now, compare Earl Roberts. Unlike the other articles here, our article on the man is packed with images, and has no text at all about anything related to propaganda involving him. And I hardly think it's worth cutting out a FP-level copy of a John Singer Sergeant painting to make room for this. Adam Cuerden ( talk) 00:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Adam Cuerden ( talk) 00:57, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- I completely agree with Adam. Further, there shouldn't be a lower EV requirement for posters- if it seems there is, it's possible some posters were promoted when they should not have been.
J Milburn (
talk) 18:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- That was what I was getting at, though apparently not too clearly: That there seems to be a double standard for poster EV and that we may have been a little lax in those promotions. Again, just exploring options and it's looking like we're moving towards a consensus to delist. Cowtowner ( talk) 18:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- Please notify the original uploader/nominator. Thanks. Makeemlighter ( talk) 02:47, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
- Comment: I brought this to Durova's attention at the end of July. I suppose she's been too busy to do anything about it. I suppose it could replace the John Singer Sargent portrait, but I'd prefer it to have more context. howcheng { chat} 18:45, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Kept --
Makeemlighter (
talk) 01:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
- Despite no usage in article space. Makeemlighter ( talk) 01:48, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
Delisted -- Makeemlighter ( talk) 19:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
- Please see this discussion. Makeemlighter ( talk) 19:26, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
