- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 21:31, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Samuell Benta
- Samuell Benta ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Non-notable minor actor, playing minor characters; created his own obscure YouTube webseries but nowhere near notable, to my way of thinking. Orange Mike | Talk 02:13, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Jinkinson talk to me 02:16, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
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- Delete as it fails
WP:NACTOR, as it looks like he hasn't had any significant roles.
Aerospeed (
Talk) 22:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
- @ Aerospeed: Actually he's had three significant roles in notable TV shows. – anemone projectors– 09:29, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
- @
User:AnemoneProjectors: I asked you to elaborate on how his role in
EastEnders: E20 (a show I admit to having never watched) is notable when our article indicates that he only appeared in the final season.
Power Rangers Operation Overdrive is only the 15th of 21 seasons of that show overall. He played one of about 10 main characters in that one season, and one of easily 200+ in the show overall,
many of whom don't appear to have articles (a lot of the ones who do
have articles are probably similarly notable to Benta and the articles will eventually be deleted). Our article on
The Cut lists him as the 20th of 22 actors in the show, only four of whom have Wikipedia articles. Our article
List of The Cut characters says he has only appeared in 19/40 episodes, and 9 actors who have appeared in more episodes than him do not have articles. I've asked you enough times to please elaborate as to why you think this actor's having had fairly minor roles in these shows makes him inherently more notable than the other actors in those shows: why have you not?
Hijiri 88 (
聖
やや) 04:20, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- @ Hijiri88: Why have I not? I thought I had. But I will expand, without comparing him to other actors who do or do not have articles (which one should definitely not be doing in AFD). Each season of EastEnders: E20 has a different set of main characters. He plays one of three main characters in series 3. It's a significant role in the series and the series is notable. You say in The Cut that he is listed as 20th out of 22 actors, which refers to the infobox. I don't know what order this is in, it's meant to be order of appearance, but the article says "Jay Kelso (played by Samuell Benta) is the main protagonist of Series 1", which in my mind gives him a significant role in a notable series. The article for Power Rangers Operation Overdrive lists him (in the "cast" section) second, and as he appears in all 32 episodes. So it's just one season. So what? It's still a significant role in that particular season, which is notable on its own as it as its own Wikipedia article. So significant roles in multiple notable television series. Not minor ones. – anemone projectors– 07:48, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- Okay. Now you've finally answered my question about those shows that I don't know, and I thank you. The fact remains, though, that the article cannot be improved beyond a list of roles in relatively obscure shows mainly populated by non-notable actors. There is no reason to assume Benta is more notable than any of them, especially when no sources have yet been found that cover his bio in any detail. I don't know how much trouble you went to find those eight sources below, but I searched around for a while before my BLPN post, and couldn't find anything, and as I pointed out below none of those sources are any good for our purposes (the only ones that talk about his bio at all are
interviews).
Hijiri 88 (
聖
やや) 15:26, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not saying he's more or less notable than anyone else, I'm just saying he's notable, full stop. And that's per Wikipedia's notability guideline for actors. The article already is more than a list of his roles. We know a bit about his heritage and his schooling. It's not much, but it's more than just a list of roles. He's also received four award nominations (for himself, not his show), one of which is from a notable organisation ( Screen Nation). I picked the eight sources I did because they are proper news companies and not random blogs, plus the people presenting the awards, and one governmental organisation. I didn't search too hard, but did go beyond page 1 of a Google search. I didn't check all search results, so there might be more. I just didn't have the time or energy. To be honest I think we need more opinions! – anemone projectors– 15:56, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- @
User:AnemoneProjectors: I asked you to elaborate on how his role in
EastEnders: E20 (a show I admit to having never watched) is notable when our article indicates that he only appeared in the final season.
Power Rangers Operation Overdrive is only the 15th of 21 seasons of that show overall. He played one of about 10 main characters in that one season, and one of easily 200+ in the show overall,
many of whom don't appear to have articles (a lot of the ones who do
have articles are probably similarly notable to Benta and the articles will eventually be deleted). Our article on
The Cut lists him as the 20th of 22 actors in the show, only four of whom have Wikipedia articles. Our article
List of The Cut characters says he has only appeared in 19/40 episodes, and 9 actors who have appeared in more episodes than him do not have articles. I've asked you enough times to please elaborate as to why you think this actor's having had fairly minor roles in these shows makes him inherently more notable than the other actors in those shows: why have you not?
Hijiri 88 (
聖
やや) 04:20, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. His role in EastEnders: E20 was one of the lead characters, so a significant role, especially as it's a spin-off of one of the UK's most popular television series. It also looks like his roles in Power Rangers Operation Overdrive and The Cut was significant, too. So that makes multiple significant roles, and passes WP:NACTOR. But the article definitely needs more sources. – anemone projectors– 17:49, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
- Delete My view on this topic is complicated, so bear with me. As I already posted on BLPN, this actor is essentially only notable for his Power Rangers role, where he played maybe the fifth- or sixth-most prominent character. Going by our article on it, E20 was essentially a short-lived webseries that happened to tie-in (loosely?) with a well-known TV show in which he apparently did not appear, and the claim that he was one of the leads in E20 appears to be iffy at best; he apparently only appeared in the last "season" which lasted one month. The Power Rangers thing, though... essentially the only two things that set him apart from the other 200-ish actors who have had equally- or more-prominent roles in that show are that (1) he was a Black Ranger who is actually Black (something that is mentioned in the article but with no source -- I don't think one will be found) and (2) he (allegedly) did something very bad that has made him very unpopular among the show's fans. I don't want to state it here, but 29:20~30:20 of this video reports apparently a well-known incident that is the only noteworthy point about this actor. We, however, can't point out the most noteworthy piece of information about the topic since there are no reliable sources that go in-depth on this person, and even though we have semi-reliable sources like the linked video, semi-reliable is not good enough for accusations of stealing against LPs. No sources can be found that either confirm or disprove this accusation of stealing. Numerous IPs and SPAs have tried to (sloppily and offensively) add the information to the article and been reverted/blocked/revdel-ed. Others appear to have a specific agenda of promoting the actor.
- Essentially what I'm saying is that there are not enough sources to objectively cover this actor. We can either use promotional self-published material that glosses over the only incident he's known for, or limit ourselves to a list of minor credits he has received.
-
Hijiri 88 (
聖
やや) 10:28, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: WP:NACTOR says "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." Power Rangers Operation Overdrive, EastEnders: E20 and The Cut are all notable television shows, and his role in each is significant. Just because his series of EastEnders: E20 was broadcast over a month doesn't make the role insignificant, or the show non-notable. – anemone projectors– 21:33, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note that my deletion rationale is based on
WP:GNG. NACTOR is subordinate to GNG. This actor has had fairly minor roles in a couple of reasonably well-known shows, but his participation in these shows has not received any significant coverage third-party reliable sources. If he had, a source could be found for either the statement "at the 2007
Powermorphicon he stole a signed poster from a
charity auction and has yet to return it or apologize" or the statement "many Power Rangers fans have accused him of stealing from a charity auction in 2007, but this claim has been disproven". I asked for sources and was met with "he appeared in some TV shows, therefore he is notable".
182.249.240.32 (
talk) 07:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC) (Hijiri88's phone)
- How about these for starters:
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]? Just because one incident isn't included (possibly because of
right to be forgotten) doesn't mean there aren't plenty of sources about him. –
anemone
projectors– 08:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- The Independent is newspaper article about online media that lists him along with several others because he has a webshow. It gives his age and hometown, and no other biographical information.
- Brent & Kilburn Times is a local newspaper from his hometown, with an article on his webshow. It doesn't give any biographical information on him apart from said hometown's name the fact that he made the webshow. So far the only biographical information is contradicting itself. (They could easily both be right, but which do we use? And how much of an article can we build with just a list of places he lived and a list of the shows he acted in?)
- Times is a short interview about his webshow. It gives no biographical information, and while it may be useful as a source for an article on the show, it does not provide significant coverage on him. It is also neither independent nor neutral, as interviews are generally considered WP:PRIMARY sources.
- Digital Spy is another interview with the subject. It may or may not demonstrate the notability of one or more of his acting projects, but doesn't help us write a biographical article on him.
- London Evening Standard is yet another short article on his webshow. Please read WP:NOTINHERITED: sources on his show do not help the biographical article on him meet GNG.
- Brent is a local government source that says even less about one of his ... short films (?) premiering in the area in question. It provides no information whatsoever on the subject himself. How can we use it to improve our biographical article on him?
- Mobo mentions his name in a list of nominees for a particular award. The winner in that category does not have a Wikipedia article, and of the three other nominees the only one with an article is Wil Johnson, another BLP based almost entirely on primary sources (interviews).
- BEFFTA is another source discussing his show, not his biography, and even then it is essentially a list of award nominations.
- The one incident is not mentioned because none of these sources give us any information at all about his biography. They are all about film and (web)TV projects he has worked on. If you want to try creating articles on those works ... well, none of them already have articles. WP:NOTINHERITED makes it clear that sources discussing his film and TV projects, not him, do not help his biography article meet GNG. And in this case none of the related topics even have articles! If those are the best sources that can be found, this article will be deleted.
- Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 13:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- How about these for starters:
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]? Just because one incident isn't included (possibly because of
right to be forgotten) doesn't mean there aren't plenty of sources about him. –
anemone
projectors– 08:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
- Note that my deletion rationale is based on
WP:GNG. NACTOR is subordinate to GNG. This actor has had fairly minor roles in a couple of reasonably well-known shows, but his participation in these shows has not received any significant coverage third-party reliable sources. If he had, a source could be found for either the statement "at the 2007
Powermorphicon he stole a signed poster from a
charity auction and has yet to return it or apologize" or the statement "many Power Rangers fans have accused him of stealing from a charity auction in 2007, but this claim has been disproven". I asked for sources and was met with "he appeared in some TV shows, therefore he is notable".
182.249.240.32 (
talk) 07:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC) (Hijiri88's phone)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, slakr\ talk / 06:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.