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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Lourdes 08:27, 9 December 2018 (UTC) reply

Nicco Fertitta

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Nicco Fertitta (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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While he is a starting player on one of the top college football teams, he does not meet any of the four core criteria in WP:NCOLLATH beyond routine media coverage about signing with Notre Dame or game recaps. Notre Dame's biography of him does not indicate that he received any national awards, and his current season stats do not indicate an All-American in the making.

The South Bend Tribune [1] and SB Nation's Notre Dame website [2] have done profiles of Fertitta, but neither meets the "national media attention" requirement in NCOLLATH.

Also, just because he comes from the notable Fertitta business family (his father is Lorenzo Fertitta of Ultimate Fighting Championship fame) does not mean Nicco meets WP:BIO. Arbor to SJ ( talk) 21:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC) reply

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 21:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 21:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 21:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Nevada-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 21:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Starting defensive players at top-tier schools like Notre Dame tend to generate enough press to pass WP:GNG and this one seems to have done so. Beyond the significant number of mentions in other news articles, there are two feature articles in Sports and Las Vegas Sun that show a clear pass of the general notability guideline. There is more than one path to notability.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 13:34, 26 November 2018 (UTC) reply
A corrected link to the NBC Sports story is here. While it is an example of national media coverage, it appears to be WP:ROUTINE because it was part of a series analyzing every player on the Notre Dame roster hence the title "Notre Dame 99-to-2". Arbor to SJ ( talk) 03:56, 27 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Feature articles are WP:NOTROUTINE by any stretch-- (far beyond the threshold of "sports scores". Further, WP:ROUTINE only applies to events and not people.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 12:10, 27 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Since they're doing an article on every Notre Dame player, you're essentially making the claim that nbcsports.com articles make every Notre Dame player notable. I don't think that's true. In addition, I would claim the contract that NBC has to televise every Notre Dame game through at least 2025 means this coverage is not independent. Papaursa ( talk) 18:36, 30 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Please don't try to make the arguments at WP:ROUTINE mean more than they do not. The shortcut tag is the word "routine" but that is an over-simplification. And as I noted earlier, WP:ROUTINE applies to events only, not people.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 19:19, 30 November 2018 (UTC) reply
Not sure what you're referring to. I never mentioned WP:ROUTINE. All the depth charts and statistics show he's not the starting free safety (see my comment below). Of the two sources you mention in your vote, one is the local paper talking about a high school player and the other is the not-independent NBC series on every Notre Dame player. Papaursa ( talk) 03:21, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 01:36, 2 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Delete fails WP:NCOLLATH. In response to the sources presented above, we should not be using feature articles from when players are in high school (excluded per the young athlete rule) or from sites which pay to promote the particular team to make college players notable under WP:GNG. No problem with recreating once he passes WP:NCOLLATH. SportingFlyer talk 04:38, 2 December 2018 (UTC) reply
    • Question: Where is this supposed "young athlete rule" and surely if it exists it only applies while the subject is under the age of 18.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 14:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • WP:YOUNGATH pretty clearly excludes most high school sports coverage as routine. You can pass WP:GNG off of articles from high school sports, but we're talking something like Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jon_Peters_(pitcher) (I was on the wrong side of that one since I lumped four SI articles in as coverage from one source, but don't mind the result.) Furthermore relying on a high school sports feature article to show notability as a college athlete though doesn't seem logical. SportingFlyer talk 16:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Interesting, first I've seen that guideline. But it doesn't apply because the subject is a college level NCAA Division I FBS athlete and is not a "High school and pre-high school athlete"-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 01:05, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • By that logic, a college player could fail WP:NCOLLATH but pass WP:GNG since he received coverage in high school, even though that coverage is nearly completely disqualified as routine by the above guideline. I don't think you can argue high school football coverage makes a college player notable. SportingFlyer talk 03:32, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • That's how it's written up in the guideline you are referencing. It is "substantial and prolonged coverage that is (1) independent of the subject and (2) clearly goes beyond WP:ROUTINE coverage" -- several years of coverage and clearly beyond simple scores... and as stated above WP:ROUTINE applies to events, not people.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 04:01, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • But if you're trying to claim notability as a college player, you can't be reliant on high school sourcing. You could claim notability as a high school player who has had "substantial and prolonged coverage," but those situations are extremely rare, and clearly not met here. It doesn't make sense to say "he's a notable college player, he was covered in high school so passes WP:GNG!" That's specifically why WP:YOUNGATH exists. SportingFlyer talk 17:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • As I read WP:YOUNGATH, it looks like it exists to prevent extraneous articles being written about young athletes. The subject is no longer a young athlete per that guideline, and has coverage in the news about his college career. There's no reason at this point not to use articles about him before college.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 18:16, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Precisely. But one of the two feature articles noted above covers him as a high school athlete, and can't be used to say he passes WP:GNG. SportingFlyer talk 09:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • So then use the hundreds of other mentions in the news.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 12:07, 4 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • I'm going to have to go weak delete on this one. If it looked like he has a decent shot at getting drafted, I would've voted in favor of keeping the page, but per ESPN he has no recorded stats in 5 of 12 games this year. I don't think that's enough to justify a page, especially since he has not won any individual awards (granted, that is harder since Notre Dame players can't get All-Conference honors). There are, however, a couple of what seem to be sources with significant coverage, but those are already idscussed at length above. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 02:37, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
Edit: He’s not even starter. Vote changes from weak delete to delete. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 03:30, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Don't believe WP:GNG or WP:NGRIDIRON are met. He's not even Notre Dame's #1 free safety. Notre Dame Insider [3], Irish Sports Daily [4], and OurLads [5] all have him third on the team's depth chart. According to ESPN [6] he has made 12 tackles this year with 0 interceptions and 0 forced fumbles. Fellow ND free safety Alohi Gilman has 76 tackles, 2 interceptions, and 2 forced fumbles [7]. Not all Notre Dame players are notable. Papaursa ( talk) 03:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
    • Comment players can never start a game and still be notable as Rudy Ruettiger has proven soundly. Not being a starter is not an automatic fail.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 04:05, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
And when they make a film about Nicco Fertitta like they did about Rudy Ruettiger, I'll have no problem saying he's notable. So why did you claim he was a starter at Notre Dame and hence would "tend to generate enough press to pass WP:GNG"? Also, as I said above, neither of the "feature articles" you mentioned in your keep vote actually contribute to meeting WP:GNG. Papaursa ( talk) 05:55, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
Your argument was that because he isn't a starter then he's not notable. I argue that not starting doesn't mean that the path to notability is killed.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 17:35, 3 December 2018 (UTC) reply
No, my argument was that he wasn't notable because he doesn't meet WP:GNG or WP:NGRIDIRON. I was merely refuting your claim that he was a starter at Notre Dame (and thus likely to meet GNG). Papaursa ( talk) 21:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC) reply
That's what the nominator posted, I saw no reason to question that part.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 14:45, 5 December 2018 (UTC) reply
  • Delete WP:NCOLLATH isn't met, as it is bare and missing references. The article is barren, has NO information on his college career, and even the ESPN stats show nothing in 5 games. He's not a starter, he is third on the depth chat behind Alohi Gilman. Like as Papaursa said, not all Notre Dame players are notable. Charizard200 ( talk) 18:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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