- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DannyS712 ( talk) 23:41, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Gerhard de Beer
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De Beer has not played a regular season game for a professional sports team (fails WP:GRIDIRON), was a non-notable college offensive tackle who was not drafted (fails WP:NCOLLATH), and is otherwise a non-notable person (fails WP:GNG).
All of the mentions of him in the news fall into routine pieces about a person trying to make it in professional sports. The only possible exception I found is this ESPN article. I would argue that his South African roots and previous discus/track experience does not alone make him notable. These items would only become relevant if he plays a professional game, thus adding him to a small list of unique NFL players with this background. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep For disclosure, I promoted this at AfC. I agree De Beer does not qualify under WP:GRIDIRON, however, believe he has obtained WP:SIGCOV of a non WP:ROUTINE nature in WP:RS spanning a period of years and, therefore, meets the WP:GNG. Specifically:
- Gartland, Dan (October 17, 2017). "Arizona's 320-Pound Discus Champion Lineman Wants to Be a Punter". Sports Illustrated.
- Bonagura, Kyle (November 3, 2017). "Gerhard de Beer, Arizona's 315-pound, discus-throwing wanna-be punter". ESPN.
- "The big meneer from Pretoria on the road to NFL stardom". The Citizen. May 2, 2018.
- Feltham, Luke (May 4, 2018). "Meet Gerhard De Beer, SA's aspiring NFL star". Mail & Guardian.
- Gaughan, Mark (May 27, 2018). "Bills rookie tackle Gerhard de Beer has Olympic-sized natural talent". Buffalo News.
- Rodak, Mike (February 1, 2018). "Gerhard de Beer continúa su transición del disco al fútbol americano". ESPN.
- Roth, Leo (August 2, 2018). "Bills rookie guard Gerhard de Beer ate 8,000 calories per day to make his college team". Democrat & Chronicle.
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Chetsford (
talk) 22:54, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
-
Chetsford, while I appreciate that he has appeared in some articles over about a year period, all of the one's you point to are routine profiles of a college athlete about his pursuit to the NFL. It really comes down to the question "does someone become notable for trying to get to the NFL just because they come from a country that doesn't routinely provide NFL players?" (in this case South Africa). In my opinion, until he makes it to the NFL, he is just another aspiring college athlete with a somewhat unique background. For every aspiring professional athlete that makes it, there are hundreds who don't, a lot of whom have coverage about their pursuit.
« Gonzo fan2007
(talk) @ 23:18, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- I have to disagree. Two of the above articles are from South African newspapers, which do not routinely profile American football players. Profiles in the U.S. newspapers are not draft season articles and are therefore also, in my opinion, not routine for the type of graduating college player profiles we typically see. All of the articles are deep biographical treatments and, in that sense, I think are also non-routine for the type of college-to-pros coverage we typically see which is usually limited to draft round predictions, and so forth. Chetsford ( talk) 23:25, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
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Chetsford, while I appreciate that he has appeared in some articles over about a year period, all of the one's you point to are routine profiles of a college athlete about his pursuit to the NFL. It really comes down to the question "does someone become notable for trying to get to the NFL just because they come from a country that doesn't routinely provide NFL players?" (in this case South Africa). In my opinion, until he makes it to the NFL, he is just another aspiring college athlete with a somewhat unique background. For every aspiring professional athlete that makes it, there are hundreds who don't, a lot of whom have coverage about their pursuit.
« Gonzo fan2007
(talk) @ 23:18, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep notability is a strange mistress. First, the article doesn't violate any policy that I can see/ And no, the notability is not achieved through being an active NFL player because he hasn't done that yet. Normally, notability is not achieved by being on the practice squad. Most college football players are not notable either. What makes this player notable? A clear pass of WP:GNG does it for me. For some reason--for whatever reason or reasons--there is significant coverage of the individual in reliable third party news sources. Is it because his last name is "de Beer" and that makes people joke about "de Brewski" ?? Doesn't matter... what matters is the coverage is there. We as editors do not set out to "choose" what is notable or "use our vast wisdom" to deem something notable or "get to decide" because that's personal preference (see WP:IDONTLIKEIT). Wikipedia:Notability is not a matter of opinion.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 14:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Jesus Christ. “Have appeared in at least one regular season or post season game” is the first rule of NGRIDIRON and he couldn’t even manage to do that. “He’s South African” is not notability! You can have all the “coverage” in the world but you have to actually play the goddamn sport professionally. Trillfendi ( talk) 17:50, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- "You can have all the “coverage” in the world but you have to actually play the goddamn sport professionally." - NGRIDIRON is a notability test for subjects who fail the GNG. A person who had "all the coverage in the world" but never played the sport professionally would indeed qualify for an article under the General Notability Guidelines. Conversely, a subject who had played the sport professionally but was only mentioned once in a 1932 issue of the Des Moines Register would fail the GNG but qualify under NGRIDIRON.
Chetsford (
talk) 18:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- General notability for not even playing his sport? For a potential career? Makes no sense. General notability still has to be for something. File this one under
WP:TOOSOON.
Trillfendi (
talk) 21:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Our general notability guidelines (
WP:BASIC) say that: People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[ and independent of the subject. That's the only requirement of GNG; personal or professional success is not a requirement under our general notability guidelines. Whether or not it makes sense, that's our policy.
Chetsford (
talk) 22:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
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WP:ABELINCOLN never played football professionally either, but that's no reason to delete the article about him. There is more than one path to notability.--
Paul McDonald (
talk) 01:02, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
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WP:ABELINCOLN is simply an opinion... dramatic irony.
Trillfendi (
talk) 17:56, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
- missing your point... ??? What do you mean by that?-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 18:58, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
-
WP:ABELINCOLN is simply an opinion... dramatic irony.
Trillfendi (
talk) 17:56, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
-
WP:ABELINCOLN never played football professionally either, but that's no reason to delete the article about him. There is more than one path to notability.--
Paul McDonald (
talk) 01:02, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Our general notability guidelines (
WP:BASIC) say that: People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[ and independent of the subject. That's the only requirement of GNG; personal or professional success is not a requirement under our general notability guidelines. Whether or not it makes sense, that's our policy.
Chetsford (
talk) 22:04, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- General notability for not even playing his sport? For a potential career? Makes no sense. General notability still has to be for something. File this one under
WP:TOOSOON.
Trillfendi (
talk) 21:30, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- "You can have all the “coverage” in the world but you have to actually play the goddamn sport professionally." - NGRIDIRON is a notability test for subjects who fail the GNG. A person who had "all the coverage in the world" but never played the sport professionally would indeed qualify for an article under the General Notability Guidelines. Conversely, a subject who had played the sport professionally but was only mentioned once in a 1932 issue of the Des Moines Register would fail the GNG but qualify under NGRIDIRON.
Chetsford (
talk) 18:26, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment there is a good amount of discussion above about WP:ROUTINE but it does not apply here. WP:ROUTINE is a part of Wikipedia:Notability (events) and the subject here is not an event but a person -- therefore we go to Wikipedia:Notability (people) and its sub-guideline WP:BASIC.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 01:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Passes both WP:GNG and prong 3 of WP:NCOLLATH. Significant coverage in national media outlets like Sports Illustratedand ESPN.com, as well as international coverage in South Africa. This type of coverage is not even remotely WP:ROUTINE. Cbl62 ( talk) 06:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets
WP:GNG and
WP:BASIC. In addition, he very likely meets
WP:NCOLLATH #3, too, due to the national and international media attention he has received. I also want to note that the profanity in Trillfendi's "Delete" vote is completely unnecessary and is very much not appreciated.
Ejgreen77 (
talk) 21:04, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
- Comment I agree there is no place for profanity in this discussion per WP:PROFANEDISCUSSIONS. It doesn't help.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 03:25, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- Keep per GNG. Rlendog ( talk) 14:48, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.