- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. j⚛e decker talk 00:12, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Florida–South Carolina football rivalry
- Florida–South Carolina football rivalry ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Non-notable college football rivalry that fails WP:NRIVALRY and WP:GNG. Per WP:NRIVALRY, no sports rivalry is inherently notable, and every sports "rivalry" must satisfy the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG. That means significant coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources explicitly covering the series as a rivalry, not as a recurring game series. By that GNG standard, it is damn difficult to find significant, in-depth coverage of Florida-South Carolina as a "rivalry" in multiple, independent, reliable sources per WP:RS. Has anyone ever written an in-depth feature article about the history and significance of the Florida-South Carolina series as a rivalry? Has anyone has ever written a book about the Florida-South Carolina series as a rivalry? Alabama-Tennessee? Florida-Georgia? Auburn-Georgia? Florida-Florida State? Florida-Miami? Clemson-South Carolina? Yes, to all of those. Florida-South Carolina? Never. If the Florida-South Carolina annual series is notable as a "rivalry," then practically every annual series in the Southeastern Conference is a rivalry. When every annual series is a rivalry, then the term "rivalry" has effectively become meaningless. This is not what was intended by WP:NRIVALRY, and is not supported by the precedents of the previous AfDs and talk page discussions of WP:CFB. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 05:23, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete even though the involved teams play for universities, not high schools. Every time one competitive team faces another, they are rivals. If they have faced each other more than once, a "rivalry" is involved. The vast majority of these "rivalries" are not notable. I believe that we need some really in-depth coverage in highly reliable sources to conclude that a "rivalry" is notable, as opposed to routine passing mentions in local sources. I am not seeing that here. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Comment - Most importantly, Cullen, there needs to be in-depth coverage of the series as a rivalry, not just as a recurring series. Every major Division I FBS game will have articles written about it the day after it's played; but that does not make the series a "rivalry." Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 05:48, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Tentative Keep this, this, and this seem to be RS that discuss these games as a rivalry, although the coverage is barely sufficient. However, I am not an expert on college football, so I may be missing something; is there some feature of these sources that makes them not-reliable? Vanamonde93 ( talk) 06:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)It would appear that I have read multiple sources incorrectly; see below. Changing vote to Delete, since that leaves only one RS that refers to the topic in question. Vanamonde93 ( talk) 06:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Vanamonde93: In your three linked sources above from the Google News Archive, I cannot find the Florida-South Carolina "rivalry" references in the first and third sources at all -- the first appears to be an article about a murder involving high school rivals in Pahokee, Florida from the Bangor Daily News, and the third is a link to an article about the Florida-Florida State rivalry (with a secondary mention of the Clemson-South Carolina rivalry on the same page) from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. The second linked article, from the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, does mention a Florida-South Carolina rivalry, but only in the context of a personal rivalry for a South Carolina player from the state of Florida. None of these appear to be significant -- let alone in-depth -- coverage of the Florida-South Carolina series as a rivalry between the two universities.
Dirtlawyer1 (
talk) 06:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
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Dirtlawyer1, you are correct about the first source; it is discussing high-school football, and I was still confused by the high-school/college switch above. The second one, though, seems not to be personal to me; the third paragraph starts of "This is a rivalry game for the [gamecocks]," which seems clear enough. The third article is less direct, but the piece is focused on rivalries, and the first bullet point, second column, mentions this particular one.
Vanamonde93 (
talk) 06:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Vanamonde93: The first bullet point in the second column appears to be discussing the Florida-Florida State rivalry. Are you seeing something different? The second source actually says "This is a rivalry game for Florida-native Gamecocks," i.e. the South Carolina Gamecock players from the state of Florida. Florida is a very fertile college football recruiting area, and a handful of Florida kids wind up playing for South Carolina every year. For those Florida natives playing for South Carolina, yeah, it's a personal rivalry because they're playing their home-state university. Not so much for the other 90% of the Gamecocks who are not from Florida.
Dirtlawyer1 (
talk) 06:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Bloody hell, yes, right again. I have changed my vote, as that leaves only one source. As for that one, though; yes, it may be for personal reasons, but the reference still makes it out to be a team rivalry, and I'd rather not second guess the source beyond a point. You can have a rivalry between two teams for personal reasons, can you not?
Vanamonde93 (
talk) 06:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- @ Vanamonde93: I think the point of the article was that the game is not a traditional rivalry for the Florida Gators or the South Carolina Gamecocks as teams, but it is a rivalry of sorts for the Florida natives playing for the Gamecocks. Not sure that measures up to what CFB fans and WP:CFB would define as a rivalry between the teams, and certainly not a notable rivalry for purposes of WP:GNG. Dirtlawyer1 ( talk) 06:51, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Bloody hell, yes, right again. I have changed my vote, as that leaves only one source. As for that one, though; yes, it may be for personal reasons, but the reference still makes it out to be a team rivalry, and I'd rather not second guess the source beyond a point. You can have a rivalry between two teams for personal reasons, can you not?
Vanamonde93 (
talk) 06:46, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Vanamonde93: The first bullet point in the second column appears to be discussing the Florida-Florida State rivalry. Are you seeing something different? The second source actually says "This is a rivalry game for Florida-native Gamecocks," i.e. the South Carolina Gamecock players from the state of Florida. Florida is a very fertile college football recruiting area, and a handful of Florida kids wind up playing for South Carolina every year. For those Florida natives playing for South Carolina, yeah, it's a personal rivalry because they're playing their home-state university. Not so much for the other 90% of the Gamecocks who are not from Florida.
Dirtlawyer1 (
talk) 06:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
-
Dirtlawyer1, you are correct about the first source; it is discussing high-school football, and I was still confused by the high-school/college switch above. The second one, though, seems not to be personal to me; the third paragraph starts of "This is a rivalry game for the [gamecocks]," which seems clear enough. The third article is less direct, but the piece is focused on rivalries, and the first bullet point, second column, mentions this particular one.
Vanamonde93 (
talk) 06:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- @
Vanamonde93: In your three linked sources above from the Google News Archive, I cannot find the Florida-South Carolina "rivalry" references in the first and third sources at all -- the first appears to be an article about a murder involving high school rivals in Pahokee, Florida from the Bangor Daily News, and the third is a link to an article about the Florida-Florida State rivalry (with a secondary mention of the Clemson-South Carolina rivalry on the same page) from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. The second linked article, from the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, does mention a Florida-South Carolina rivalry, but only in the context of a personal rivalry for a South Carolina player from the state of Florida. None of these appear to be significant -- let alone in-depth -- coverage of the Florida-South Carolina series as a rivalry between the two universities.
Dirtlawyer1 (
talk) 06:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete - the discussion between Vanamonde93 and Dirtlawyer1 has actually provided quite a comprehensive analysis of the sources. I can't see that the sources available substantiate that this is a notable rivalry. St★lwart 111 12:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Carolina-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:35, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:35, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete per Dirtlawyer1. Patriarca12 ( talk) 11:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.